You are all totally missing the whole point of this discussion.
Now I am going to come in again because we are 8 pages in and who knows if any one will see what I wrote way back at the begining.
I am glad for all of you that have been here a long time and found healing...Yes GSC was originally set up to help those trying to escape or get out of TWI and yes I am sure TWI is no longer what it was...But you all forget there were thousands of way believers... every day new ones sign up on here.... not every week or so but every day.... GSC has morphed into a place for people to find information and healing and there are tons of them out there just like me.
I thank God for the people on here who were brave and stood up to TWI... who built this place... who rescued so many... but if you think that that work is done ... it is you who are short sighted .. Not Paw who has tried to keep this place viable and helpful for everyone
DID IT EVER OCCURE TO ANY OF YOU THAT THERE ARE MANY MORE OUT THERE LOOKING FOR THE HEALING THEY CAN FIND HERE.!!!!!!!!!
Good Grief have you so missed what this place is really all about, getting information and healing for the thousands of people who were trashed by TWI.. Not just a few.
And since you all have been here a while I am sure you know how much healing you got from writing about the hurts you recieved, and comiserating with others.
Just the information to read is not enough for many people... MANY people need to verbalize what they went through... and for some of us we had wonderful times too and we are trying to make sense of it all.
I know I am just one small voice but somebody on here needs to speak for those of us who just arrived and those of us who have yet to come.
This is my personal plea to PAW ... Please find some happy medium... I want you to go have a wonderful life too but please do not throw out all that GSC is because of some vain misguided egotistical few who are in need of some kind of professional help.
GSC is truely the sum of all it's parts.. from this fool wandering in the forest alone I say thank you for all you have done, it truely is a gracious gift to everyone here and they do not realize just how precious it is.
would you be so attracted to this place if you were asked to use your real name ?
if not why not?
Well Pond I don't usually use my real name on any web place because it is usually not too wise.. and here no.. if I had to use my real name probably not...
but mostly becasue when I got here I didn't know the Way Ministry was pretty much trashed... I was still a little afraid of them. I find I wasn't the only one that felt that way when I got here.
Oh and Pond Hope-r 's thing is totally different than here. it is good but it is just blogs.. that is why they have no fights
people are blogging not posting in a forum.. it is like comparing apples and oranges
1. People choose not to use their real names for as many reasons as there are people, yourself included, yes? It's an option that should be utilized for their safety, comfort or freedom.
2. It's not always a good idea to use words like "no one, always and/or never"
3. I'd bet Hope R would rather speak for herself.
I use my real name here for my own reasons, just as others don't and it's not the end all answer. In fact there isn't one answer.
The whole point of Paw's original request got lost. It's not about editing, it's not about names, it's not about moderation.
Yes, this is a community. A social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage. How is that bad, unless and until the community members think it's ok to tar and feather another in the town square or burn another at the stake?
From the front page of this place:
GreaseSpot Cafe is a gathering place, bringing together people and information. We welcome all who have an interest in The Way International, including former followers, current followers, and those who may have friends or family members who are involved. Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery.
We want people to be able to make informed decisions regarding their past, present, and future affiliations with The Way International (TWI). Whether you are standing with TWI, thinking about leaving, trying to help someone else get out, or looking for support from others who have left, we believe the information here is highly relevant and well worth considering.
Like so many other places, the original idea was a wonderful one, until people thought they knew better, could do better, had better ideas yet had no clue how to present them, suggest them, or assumed and then complained about the lack that they weren't willing to contribute to.
I'm sure every site or community or idea is better than another; it's in the eye of the beholder or the guts of the ones willing to not just gripe but actually do something constructive.
Pawtucket is not going to please everyone, period. Neither are you or me going to do that. It's the nature of the beast. However, we can each be accountable for our own gig. Maybe then collectively it could work towards a better good.
If it is a community as some suggest what are people afraid of?
one can read the forums without signing up, find out what they have been bothered about for 25 years of their life .
but If they want to interact and say what they want to say become accountable.
It would help Pawtucket .
the internet is not a new avenue anymore it is a comfy place most navigate everyday this the internet is a scary place just doesnt fly to well in society anymore does it? I find that to be an excuse .
so your need lessens if you use your real name hmmm? ok then. but it doesnt stop anyone from reading the info GS has one does not need to sign up for that.
It could very well be a locked site, with safety measures, Im certain Pawtuket has the ability to use as much as any other site does that uses their real names.
I think the "greater good" is far better served by maximum individual autonomy over his or her written "content." It's hard to imagine how the unraveling of a thread, as you describe it, is more important than that.
How often would such a thing as blanket deletions happen? Count the times it happened at Greasespot. Did Greasespot somehow go on?
A community can self-police, and the best of them do. The individual who abuses the feature would soon be dismissed from the dialogue.
Have you ever moderated a forum?
I have (and do). It's a lot of work because no matter what you do you can't make everyone happy. It's about the second most thankless job I can think of, next to being a parent. Just because someone could come in and do just what that poster did (even once) is reason enough. She was a VERY PROLIFIC poster - it was a complete mess. Yeah, the forum lived but can you imagine the confusion?
Self-police? This group?
(hang on... i'm laughing to hard to finish this post....)
Okay... by hitting the EDIT button I can come back and finish this today... phew.
I bet the moderation would lessen considerably if we did use our real names, I thought that was the point.
i just do not see how you think people will just change their spots, I read Pawtucket is tired of trying to make them. it isnt working and Shellon it has been decades .
why not use real names esp in the areas you seem to have the most trouble?
you bet some will no longer post!
isnt that the whole idea? to have posters who really do want to be accountable and who really do want answers .
works for their site and maybe she will post now (hope R) come on in .
The whole point of Paw's original request got lost. It's not about editing, it's not about names, it's not about moderation.
Yes, this is a community. A social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage. How is that bad, unless and until the community members think it's ok to tar and feather another in the town square or burn another at the stake?
And should this be at the expense of Paw? He's paid dearly for this forum. It's not his responsibility to offer this place for people to get help - I'm in shock that someone would tell him to "please find a happy medium" - WTF? Gee... next time you're ready to leave a job or make a major life change, why don't you remind yourself of that... it's oh-so-comforting...
People have varied reasons for using or not using real names.
I prefer not to ask what their reasons are.
The Way Corps site is closed corporation. You can't wander about the site unless you were WC or had a close relationship, such as a spouse or child. And that is fine with me. I have no desire to go there other than to perhaps find out "whatever became of (fill in the blank)"? If someone on that site is , for example, seeking employment or a business loan, a google search is not going to link them to a cornfield cult with which they might rather not be publicly associated.
Lots of companies have sites that restrict access to "employees only". They're sometimes called INTRA-net. If one is not an employee or agent of such a company there is no reason for them to be there. This site is different. Anyone can walk in off the street, so to speak, and access all sorts of information. You don't need to log in or even join unless you want to actively participate (ie: post, PM, etc.).
The open aspect of this site serves an important role in providing people with a place where they can freely and anonymously access information that might otherwise be buried.
I agree with Leafy on this. I was also in chat last night when Hope dropped by. The reason she stressed for why there is no fighting at their place was that they must use real names. While this might be a part of it, that place is really set up for a very different purpose than this one. It has always been geared towards being more of a social reconnect site. As I understand it that was, and is NOT, Paw's primary purpose here. Anonymity might be a small part of a few angry outbursts here, but is by no means the reason for anything. Some of the most angry or outlandish posts have been by people who freely divulge their real names. Are the arguments here really the reason people leave? I'd wager they are also the reason some people stay around. (I rather enjoy some of them)
Requiring the use of real names would do VERY little to help Paw manage this site and his time, and could be damaging to some posters in their real world life. The fact that Hope and John require real names works fine at their place, which is NOT searchable by Google and other search engines. This place IS searchable, and NEEDS to be to accomplish it's primary purpose.
Hope also stated that Paw or someone else should set up a social site (and John did the same a few weeks or months ago when he came into chat under Hope's login). I think this misses the point entirely. While some of us indeed use this place as a social pastime, that is certainly not the reason some others do. The reasons people come here, and the reasons people stay or leave, are numerous. We each come from different places in Life's journey.
What Hope experienced, leaving much later and after a much longer time in TWI than most of us (30 some years she said?), is quite different than me (14 years in, 22 out), or Leafy (4 years in, 25 out). Hope came into GSC and its predecessors for whatever reasons of her own. Others like me just came to connect, and a social site would do us just as well.. Others of us as we age, begin to look for missing parts of our life puzzle. Not all of us have an urgency, or need therapy, even if some do. Frankly, I didn't care what TWI is doing even when I got here, and still don't. Others did and do.
Hope's other point was that TWI now is meaningless and trivial and therefore GSC's purpose is trivial now. That may be true to her, and I applaud her for doing what she needed to do. This does not mean it is the same for all of us. TWI is still meaningful for those still in, or those who are newly attaching themselves to the dreams it espouses (witness the posts from Brushstroke regarding his friend Steph), or for those who left long ago but have holes in their understanding of what went on when they were involved. Not all of us EVER had mental health issues to deal with regarding TWI. I put the extent of my interest more in the curiousity arena at most.
Anyway...... Paw set this place up to discuss TWI and it's pitfalls, and he has always allowed people to also discuss its merits also. We have each brought to the Cafe our own perspectives, and taken from it what we need to. Those travels have many and extremely varied results. I can't take any one person's view of the usefulness of this site as the all encompassing truth. For Hope, I am glad she got what she needed and has moved on, albeit hastened by some other issues.<=====( )
Has GSC "jumped the shark"? That is like asking "should the water in the river stop flowing?" Which river? All the water? How about it's tributaries?
Perhaps a control gate or two should be put in it's path to enable Paw to pursue his other hobby interests, financial needs, and things regarding not only Shellon but also his brother (see the prayer thread), and the rest of his family too, but no the Cafe has not jumped the shark.
I took a long time writing that and many other posts were added in the interim. I want to add:
even if I don't think we have jumped the shark, Paw should (and will I hope) do what he needs to do regardless of what I think as to the merits of this place. It is ONLY RIGHT!
I just wanted to suggest, IMO, it is somewhat inappropriate to bring someone into this thread who is not posting here. Whatever Hope may have said in chat, she said to the people in chat. If she had wanted to say it in this thread, she could have come here and done so.
Equally important, whatever is said here is second hand information regarding what Hope said and may be somewhat inaccurate via misunderstanding and one's own personal perceptions.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled program. :)
Leafytwiglet made some very good points that reach the heart of the matter. I'm highlighting one that I think is particularly important to remember and hasn't been discussed much in this thread:
Good Grief have you so missed what this place is really all about, getting information and healing for the thousands of people who were trashed by TWI.. Not just a few.
And since you all have been here a while I am sure you know how much healing you got from writing about the hurts you recieved, and comiserating with others.
Just the information to read is not enough for many people... MANY people need to verbalize what they went through... and for some of us we had wonderful times too and we are trying to make sense of it all.
I know I am just one small voice but somebody on here needs to speak for those of us who just arrived and those of us who have yet to come.
How many times have people here posted, "You helped me find my voice"? Reading material about twi is only one benefit GSC offers; it also provides a place for people to express their feelings/thoughts about twi, to ask questions and consider each others' answers, to participate in their own healing, and not just passively read about others' experiences and thoughts. To me, that's HUGE. I, for one, have gained a lot more clarity and freedom from twi-influenced misconceptions about life, myself, and many other things by discussing, not just reading.
Whether Pawtucket wants to continue to provide a place for such discussion and interaction is up to him, but I am hoping with some additional delegation of the day-to-day stuff, and many good suggestions that have come forth in this thread, he'll find it in his heart to continue or someone else will carry on. It's social, yes, but it's a whole lot more besides.
Although twi of today is a tiny blip on anyone's radar screen, leafy is correct: There are thousands of people still out there who have been affected by their twi experiences. Twi may be nearly gone, but it's effects certainly are not! This place, both the front page and the forums is of great value to those people who once were in twi, are still in twi, or are thinking about getting involved in twi. Not all of them have found GSC yet, but I can only hope that when they're ready, it will still be here to find.
Leafy, you're not a small voice. I hear ya, and I'm glad you are here!
One last comment, and this one's for Satori: I have a one-word answer to your quest for editorial autonomy--blog.
Well then why not have access to the information free and clear but ask for some accountability when a poster wants to validate their experience ?
it might be because it is a check, if a person says I was wow in 1989 in NY God forbid the FEAR some one is on the site who was as well !!
uh oh then.
what IS the problem ? it isnt about who can get the info that could stay open IF it is a community and a person really wants to ask those who were involved in twi about it WHAT is the problem?
the problem is some here do not want to be accountable for what they say they are they do not want checks on any of the words they write.
and they do not have to have it.
and you really wonder why problems arise?
it is OPEN to the public and to think people will police their own self obviously over and over is a joke as Chas said.
no police much less be acountable to whether what is written here is a fable or not.
of course problems will be here and they will only get worse. if left as an open to whomever wants to say whatever they want.
and the bottom line for me is just this.
all these crazy fights and agruement TAKE AWAY from the mission of Greaspot and it just turns into a hate site with alot of ridiculas threads... sorry but the integrity is less and less everyday because of the posters who have been posting for years sometimes.
As someone who started posting while still in TWI, I would have been flabbergasted if I were required to use my real name. I wouldn't have posted, and I wouldn't have received the benefit that I did. Posting anonymously allowed me to say whatever I felt I needed to say.
I agree wholeheartedly that Pawtucket should be able to pursue his personal life even if it means no more Greasespotcafe.com. If someone is so distraught over it being gone or not being able to post anymore, they need to start up their own website. Greasespotcafe.com is a child of waydale.com, and it has worked wonderfully.
Yesterday is the first time that I read this thread. While many good people have shared many good things I feel obliged to say a few things just for myself.
I arrived at the Greasespot a little over a year ago. 1982, the fortieth anniversary Sunday of the Way International was my fist twig fellowship. For the next three years I was involved with TWI and a WOW ambassador and left when the things that I heard from top leadership of TWI were very discouraging, and my own personal challenges were daunting also. In 1987 I came back to the St. Paul Minnesota Twig area with the woman who I would marry shortly after I came back to TWI.
After TWI broke up around those times I was involved in a splinter group in Minnesota. Over the next fifteen years I saw what I come to see now as the VERY WORST OF TWI LEADERSHIP PRACTICES, except at least abusive sexual relationships with the top dog wasn't an issue as far as I know. But since my former splinter group leader is both paranoid and secretive, I can't know for sure.
I'm still working to come to terms with these things in a manner that keeps me both honest with the scriptures and honest enough to hear everyone else's perspective also.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW PAW, THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE SACRIFICED TO KEEP THE GREASESPOT OPEN YOU ALWAYS WILL HAVE MY THANKS NO MATTER WHAT YOU DECIDE TO DO.
I am not aware of any other place where I might have heard the ugly realities of what TWI was at it's core that would have helped me make some sense of the wreck that my life is in many respects.
Thank you most of all I think for the many TWI victims who've been allowed to share here at the Greasespot and not had to be subjected to misguided and heartless cross-examination, especially as my splinter group has shown me how ruthless that TWI leadership surely was in it's suppression of the truth of their many abusive ways. And in my mind the many archives with stories that are able to be verified make the need for a place for those whose stories cannot be verified to find friendship and/ or support A MOST VITAL NEED THAT YOU'VE PROVIDED AT THE GREASPOT. Once again I gladly offer my most sincere thank you PAW.
If this site required me to use my real name when posting, I would never have registered and have become a member. I would be ok with Paw knowing my name, but not anyone else that I haven't given my name to. Also, I feel arguements here would be far more personal if our real names were used.
If Paw has already decided to put the board on read only status, it might be more constructive at this point to see if anyone or a group of people would be able to restart this forum at a new website.
Let me make one thing very clear, this site will never require a poster to use their real name in public or private!!!
The Way Corps site is heavily regulated on what can and can not be discussed. And it only allows a limited section of people that were involved in TWI.
Well then why not have access to the information free and clear but ask for some accountability when a poster wants to validate their experience ?
it might be because it is a check, if a person says I was wow in 1989 in NY God forbid the FEAR some one is on the site who was as well !!
uh oh then.
what IS the problem ? it isnt about who can get the info that could stay open IF it is a community and a person really wants to ask those who were involved in twi about it WHAT is the problem?
You apparently can't see the forest for the trees. As many others have told you repeatedly, people often start posting here WHILE THEY ARE STILL IN TWI. You left in 1983? Good for you. It was not nearly as cultish as it was in 1993 or 2003. What you don't understand is that TWI wasn't just some social club we were free to leave, but in fact a cult where in some cases lives were threatened and families were destroyed. I didn't use my real name here or even a common nickname for me because I wanted to avoid losing contact with my parents and siblings. I recently found out that they all left TWI, so I would be ok with it now. I had to go through a lot of trouble to leave TWI without being declared "possessed" and Mark and Avoid like so many others I saw leave before me. I was secretly engaged to someone not in TWI, when my HFC made a comment that all of us unmarried guys had better not get too attached to girls outside the ministry, or he'd have to shoot us (he was a cop, and not a very friendly person.)
When you stopped going to "twig", there were no rules about how you would be suspected of being possessed if you didn't go every Sunday and Wednesday. When you left, you didn't have to file a vacation notification form to be sent to the limb coordinator, who would send it on to the limb coordinator of the place you were visiting. When you left, people didn't talk about how you were full of devil spirits and a threat to the lives of your twig. Lots of things changed, and your flippant attitude about using real names is not helpful.
Paw pretty much said it, “Let me make one thing very clear, this site will never require a poster to use their real name in public or private!!!”
Although the issue is closed, I want to give you something else to consider beyond what Mister P has said.
When I found WayDale, and continued on to Grease Spot, I can’t tell you the amount of guilt and shame I had. I had failed everything. I had failed God. I had failed people I loved. I had hurt people in vicious verbal ways. I had shunned my family for many, many years. I turned my back on the ones I held most dear, both in and out of TWI. The only thing I felt I could right is string the F____ chairs. I was at the point my heart was a weak as my flesh, and 10,000 times as hard.
I don’t know if you can relate to that type of guilt and shame. All I wanted to do was stay hidden. But I wanted answers more than I wanted to hide, so I registered under my dog’s name. Jesse was my strength for a very long time.
If I had to use my real name and expose myself, I don’t think I would have ever been able to stand in the light again. I wouldn’t have been strong enough to register under my real name, let alone ask my questions, or comment on others, which was healing as well.
Some of my greatest understanding came because of the conflict, some of which I was right in the middle of. (Sorry Paw. I know I was part of the reason for your headaches then.) Even when I wasn't posting, many times the antagonist said what I was thinking. The arguments helped me weed out the garbage in my mind that the Way had put there.
Yes, many of us had been out of the Way for years before coming here. I had been out for 11 years, ’88 to ‘99. It took that long to find a place to help me get the Way out of me. Along with the Way, I lost the guilt and shame as well.
I do think there is still need for an ex TWI place like this, but I don't think Pawtucket has to sacrifice his life and dreams to run it.
But I still know many people in TWI and I wonder about what it will be like for them if they ever leave. Some have been so obedient and so ground down for so long, with no voice, a fear of different opinions, fear of devil spirits. Then all the confusion of leaving friends and maybe family. I see them as having a difficult transition and needing a place like this for awhile. Finding a voice is important, I think, especially to the women who had both a 'head' and TWI leadership running her life!
PAW, I'm very, very glad for the stand that you take on the anonymity issue.
Personally, as a non-anonymous poster I am espescially irked by anonymous posters who are against the choice for anonymous posting amoung TWI victims. IMO they have a real big friggin blind spot in regards to practicing what they preach. So who are you anyway.....
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leafytwiglet
You are all totally missing the whole point of this discussion.
Now I am going to come in again because we are 8 pages in and who knows if any one will see what I wrote way back at the begining.
I am glad for all of you that have been here a long time and found healing...Yes GSC was originally set up to help those trying to escape or get out of TWI and yes I am sure TWI is no longer what it was...But you all forget there were thousands of way believers... every day new ones sign up on here.... not every week or so but every day.... GSC has morphed into a place for people to find information and healing and there are tons of them out there just like me.
I thank God for the people on here who were brave and stood up to TWI... who built this place... who rescued so many... but if you think that that work is done ... it is you who are short sighted .. Not Paw who has tried to keep this place viable and helpful for everyone
DID IT EVER OCCURE TO ANY OF YOU THAT THERE ARE MANY MORE OUT THERE LOOKING FOR THE HEALING THEY CAN FIND HERE.!!!!!!!!!
Good Grief have you so missed what this place is really all about, getting information and healing for the thousands of people who were trashed by TWI.. Not just a few.
And since you all have been here a while I am sure you know how much healing you got from writing about the hurts you recieved, and comiserating with others.
Just the information to read is not enough for many people... MANY people need to verbalize what they went through... and for some of us we had wonderful times too and we are trying to make sense of it all.
I know I am just one small voice but somebody on here needs to speak for those of us who just arrived and those of us who have yet to come.
This is my personal plea to PAW ... Please find some happy medium... I want you to go have a wonderful life too but please do not throw out all that GSC is because of some vain misguided egotistical few who are in need of some kind of professional help.
GSC is truely the sum of all it's parts.. from this fool wandering in the forest alone I say thank you for all you have done, it truely is a gracious gift to everyone here and they do not realize just how precious it is.
edited for my spelling and gramatical errors ; )
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pond
you leaf say your left twi in 1983.
well that speaks volumes.
it just does.
would you be so attracted to this place if you were asked to use your real name ?
if not why not?
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leafytwiglet
Well Pond I don't usually use my real name on any web place because it is usually not too wise.. and here no.. if I had to use my real name probably not...
but mostly becasue when I got here I didn't know the Way Ministry was pretty much trashed... I was still a little afraid of them. I find I wasn't the only one that felt that way when I got here.
Oh and Pond Hope-r 's thing is totally different than here. it is good but it is just blogs.. that is why they have no fights
people are blogging not posting in a forum.. it is like comparing apples and oranges
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Shellon
Pond, a couple of things.
1. People choose not to use their real names for as many reasons as there are people, yourself included, yes? It's an option that should be utilized for their safety, comfort or freedom.
2. It's not always a good idea to use words like "no one, always and/or never"
3. I'd bet Hope R would rather speak for herself.
I use my real name here for my own reasons, just as others don't and it's not the end all answer. In fact there isn't one answer.
The whole point of Paw's original request got lost. It's not about editing, it's not about names, it's not about moderation.
Yes, this is a community. A social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage. How is that bad, unless and until the community members think it's ok to tar and feather another in the town square or burn another at the stake?
From the front page of this place:
GreaseSpot Cafe is a gathering place, bringing together people and information. We welcome all who have an interest in The Way International, including former followers, current followers, and those who may have friends or family members who are involved. Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery.
We want people to be able to make informed decisions regarding their past, present, and future affiliations with The Way International (TWI). Whether you are standing with TWI, thinking about leaving, trying to help someone else get out, or looking for support from others who have left, we believe the information here is highly relevant and well worth considering.
Like so many other places, the original idea was a wonderful one, until people thought they knew better, could do better, had better ideas yet had no clue how to present them, suggest them, or assumed and then complained about the lack that they weren't willing to contribute to.
I'm sure every site or community or idea is better than another; it's in the eye of the beholder or the guts of the ones willing to not just gripe but actually do something constructive.
Pawtucket is not going to please everyone, period. Neither are you or me going to do that. It's the nature of the beast. However, we can each be accountable for our own gig. Maybe then collectively it could work towards a better good.
Maybe
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pond
If it is a community as some suggest what are people afraid of?
one can read the forums without signing up, find out what they have been bothered about for 25 years of their life .
but If they want to interact and say what they want to say become accountable.
It would help Pawtucket .
the internet is not a new avenue anymore it is a comfy place most navigate everyday this the internet is a scary place just doesnt fly to well in society anymore does it? I find that to be an excuse .
so your need lessens if you use your real name hmmm? ok then. but it doesnt stop anyone from reading the info GS has one does not need to sign up for that.
It could very well be a locked site, with safety measures, Im certain Pawtuket has the ability to use as much as any other site does that uses their real names.
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ChasUFarley
Have you ever moderated a forum?
I have (and do). It's a lot of work because no matter what you do you can't make everyone happy. It's about the second most thankless job I can think of, next to being a parent. Just because someone could come in and do just what that poster did (even once) is reason enough. She was a VERY PROLIFIC poster - it was a complete mess. Yeah, the forum lived but can you imagine the confusion?
Self-police? This group?
(hang on... i'm laughing to hard to finish this post....)
Okay... by hitting the EDIT button I can come back and finish this today... phew.
I'm sorry... what was the problem again?
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pond
I bet the moderation would lessen considerably if we did use our real names, I thought that was the point.
i just do not see how you think people will just change their spots, I read Pawtucket is tired of trying to make them. it isnt working and Shellon it has been decades .
why not use real names esp in the areas you seem to have the most trouble?
you bet some will no longer post!
isnt that the whole idea? to have posters who really do want to be accountable and who really do want answers .
works for their site and maybe she will post now (hope R) come on in .
I did ask her to last night.
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ChasUFarley
Shellon said it best:
And should this be at the expense of Paw? He's paid dearly for this forum. It's not his responsibility to offer this place for people to get help - I'm in shock that someone would tell him to "please find a happy medium" - WTF? Gee... next time you're ready to leave a job or make a major life change, why don't you remind yourself of that... it's oh-so-comforting...
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waysider
Names
People have varied reasons for using or not using real names.
I prefer not to ask what their reasons are.
The Way Corps site is closed corporation. You can't wander about the site unless you were WC or had a close relationship, such as a spouse or child. And that is fine with me. I have no desire to go there other than to perhaps find out "whatever became of (fill in the blank)"? If someone on that site is , for example, seeking employment or a business loan, a google search is not going to link them to a cornfield cult with which they might rather not be publicly associated.
Lots of companies have sites that restrict access to "employees only". They're sometimes called INTRA-net. If one is not an employee or agent of such a company there is no reason for them to be there. This site is different. Anyone can walk in off the street, so to speak, and access all sorts of information. You don't need to log in or even join unless you want to actively participate (ie: post, PM, etc.).
The open aspect of this site serves an important role in providing people with a place where they can freely and anonymously access information that might otherwise be buried.
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HAPe4me
I agree with Leafy on this. I was also in chat last night when Hope dropped by. The reason she stressed for why there is no fighting at their place was that they must use real names. While this might be a part of it, that place is really set up for a very different purpose than this one. It has always been geared towards being more of a social reconnect site. As I understand it that was, and is NOT, Paw's primary purpose here. Anonymity might be a small part of a few angry outbursts here, but is by no means the reason for anything. Some of the most angry or outlandish posts have been by people who freely divulge their real names. Are the arguments here really the reason people leave? I'd wager they are also the reason some people stay around. (I rather enjoy some of them)
Requiring the use of real names would do VERY little to help Paw manage this site and his time, and could be damaging to some posters in their real world life. The fact that Hope and John require real names works fine at their place, which is NOT searchable by Google and other search engines. This place IS searchable, and NEEDS to be to accomplish it's primary purpose.
Hope also stated that Paw or someone else should set up a social site (and John did the same a few weeks or months ago when he came into chat under Hope's login). I think this misses the point entirely. While some of us indeed use this place as a social pastime, that is certainly not the reason some others do. The reasons people come here, and the reasons people stay or leave, are numerous. We each come from different places in Life's journey.
What Hope experienced, leaving much later and after a much longer time in TWI than most of us (30 some years she said?), is quite different than me (14 years in, 22 out), or Leafy (4 years in, 25 out). Hope came into GSC and its predecessors for whatever reasons of her own. Others like me just came to connect, and a social site would do us just as well.. Others of us as we age, begin to look for missing parts of our life puzzle. Not all of us have an urgency, or need therapy, even if some do. Frankly, I didn't care what TWI is doing even when I got here, and still don't. Others did and do.
Hope's other point was that TWI now is meaningless and trivial and therefore GSC's purpose is trivial now. That may be true to her, and I applaud her for doing what she needed to do. This does not mean it is the same for all of us. TWI is still meaningful for those still in, or those who are newly attaching themselves to the dreams it espouses (witness the posts from Brushstroke regarding his friend Steph), or for those who left long ago but have holes in their understanding of what went on when they were involved. Not all of us EVER had mental health issues to deal with regarding TWI. I put the extent of my interest more in the curiousity arena at most.
Anyway...... Paw set this place up to discuss TWI and it's pitfalls, and he has always allowed people to also discuss its merits also. We have each brought to the Cafe our own perspectives, and taken from it what we need to. Those travels have many and extremely varied results. I can't take any one person's view of the usefulness of this site as the all encompassing truth. For Hope, I am glad she got what she needed and has moved on, albeit hastened by some other issues.<=====(
)
Has GSC "jumped the shark"? That is like asking "should the water in the river stop flowing?" Which river? All the water? How about it's tributaries?
Perhaps a control gate or two should be put in it's path to enable Paw to pursue his other hobby interests, financial needs, and things regarding not only Shellon but also his brother (see the prayer thread), and the rest of his family too, but no the Cafe has not jumped the shark.
~HAP
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HAPe4me
I took a long time writing that and many other posts were added in the interim. I want to add:
even if I don't think we have jumped the shark, Paw should (and will I hope) do what he needs to do regardless of what I think as to the merits of this place. It is ONLY RIGHT!
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Abigail
I just wanted to suggest, IMO, it is somewhat inappropriate to bring someone into this thread who is not posting here. Whatever Hope may have said in chat, she said to the people in chat. If she had wanted to say it in this thread, she could have come here and done so.
Equally important, whatever is said here is second hand information regarding what Hope said and may be somewhat inaccurate via misunderstanding and one's own personal perceptions.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled program. :)
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Linda Z
Leafytwiglet made some very good points that reach the heart of the matter. I'm highlighting one that I think is particularly important to remember and hasn't been discussed much in this thread:
How many times have people here posted, "You helped me find my voice"? Reading material about twi is only one benefit GSC offers; it also provides a place for people to express their feelings/thoughts about twi, to ask questions and consider each others' answers, to participate in their own healing, and not just passively read about others' experiences and thoughts. To me, that's HUGE. I, for one, have gained a lot more clarity and freedom from twi-influenced misconceptions about life, myself, and many other things by discussing, not just reading.
Whether Pawtucket wants to continue to provide a place for such discussion and interaction is up to him, but I am hoping with some additional delegation of the day-to-day stuff, and many good suggestions that have come forth in this thread, he'll find it in his heart to continue or someone else will carry on. It's social, yes, but it's a whole lot more besides.
Although twi of today is a tiny blip on anyone's radar screen, leafy is correct: There are thousands of people still out there who have been affected by their twi experiences. Twi may be nearly gone, but it's effects certainly are not! This place, both the front page and the forums is of great value to those people who once were in twi, are still in twi, or are thinking about getting involved in twi. Not all of them have found GSC yet, but I can only hope that when they're ready, it will still be here to find.
Leafy, you're not a small voice. I hear ya, and I'm glad you are here!
One last comment, and this one's for Satori: I have a one-word answer to your quest for editorial autonomy--blog.
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pond
Well then why not have access to the information free and clear but ask for some accountability when a poster wants to validate their experience ?
it might be because it is a check, if a person says I was wow in 1989 in NY God forbid the FEAR some one is on the site who was as well !!
uh oh then.
what IS the problem ? it isnt about who can get the info that could stay open IF it is a community and a person really wants to ask those who were involved in twi about it WHAT is the problem?
the problem is some here do not want to be accountable for what they say they are they do not want checks on any of the words they write.
and they do not have to have it.
and you really wonder why problems arise?
it is OPEN to the public and to think people will police their own self obviously over and over is a joke as Chas said.
no police much less be acountable to whether what is written here is a fable or not.
of course problems will be here and they will only get worse. if left as an open to whomever wants to say whatever they want.
and the bottom line for me is just this.
all these crazy fights and agruement TAKE AWAY from the mission of Greaspot and it just turns into a hate site with alot of ridiculas threads... sorry but the integrity is less and less everyday because of the posters who have been posting for years sometimes.
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Nottawayfer
As someone who started posting while still in TWI, I would have been flabbergasted if I were required to use my real name. I wouldn't have posted, and I wouldn't have received the benefit that I did. Posting anonymously allowed me to say whatever I felt I needed to say.
I agree wholeheartedly that Pawtucket should be able to pursue his personal life even if it means no more Greasespotcafe.com. If someone is so distraught over it being gone or not being able to post anymore, they need to start up their own website. Greasespotcafe.com is a child of waydale.com, and it has worked wonderfully.
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JeffSjo
Dear Paw,
Yesterday is the first time that I read this thread. While many good people have shared many good things I feel obliged to say a few things just for myself.
I arrived at the Greasespot a little over a year ago. 1982, the fortieth anniversary Sunday of the Way International was my fist twig fellowship. For the next three years I was involved with TWI and a WOW ambassador and left when the things that I heard from top leadership of TWI were very discouraging, and my own personal challenges were daunting also. In 1987 I came back to the St. Paul Minnesota Twig area with the woman who I would marry shortly after I came back to TWI.
After TWI broke up around those times I was involved in a splinter group in Minnesota. Over the next fifteen years I saw what I come to see now as the VERY WORST OF TWI LEADERSHIP PRACTICES, except at least abusive sexual relationships with the top dog wasn't an issue as far as I know. But since my former splinter group leader is both paranoid and secretive, I can't know for sure.
I'm still working to come to terms with these things in a manner that keeps me both honest with the scriptures and honest enough to hear everyone else's perspective also.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW PAW, THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE SACRIFICED TO KEEP THE GREASESPOT OPEN YOU ALWAYS WILL HAVE MY THANKS NO MATTER WHAT YOU DECIDE TO DO.
I am not aware of any other place where I might have heard the ugly realities of what TWI was at it's core that would have helped me make some sense of the wreck that my life is in many respects.
Thank you most of all I think for the many TWI victims who've been allowed to share here at the Greasespot and not had to be subjected to misguided and heartless cross-examination, especially as my splinter group has shown me how ruthless that TWI leadership surely was in it's suppression of the truth of their many abusive ways. And in my mind the many archives with stories that are able to be verified make the need for a place for those whose stories cannot be verified to find friendship and/ or support A MOST VITAL NEED THAT YOU'VE PROVIDED AT THE GREASPOT. Once again I gladly offer my most sincere thank you PAW.
(edited for clarity and grammar)
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now I see
If this site required me to use my real name when posting, I would never have registered and have become a member. I would be ok with Paw knowing my name, but not anyone else that I haven't given my name to. Also, I feel arguements here would be far more personal if our real names were used.
If Paw has already decided to put the board on read only status, it might be more constructive at this point to see if anyone or a group of people would be able to restart this forum at a new website.
(edited for grammar)
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pawtucket
Let me make one thing very clear, this site will never require a poster to use their real name in public or private!!!
The Way Corps site is heavily regulated on what can and can not be discussed. And it only allows a limited section of people that were involved in TWI.
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Mister P-Mosh
You apparently can't see the forest for the trees. As many others have told you repeatedly, people often start posting here WHILE THEY ARE STILL IN TWI. You left in 1983? Good for you. It was not nearly as cultish as it was in 1993 or 2003. What you don't understand is that TWI wasn't just some social club we were free to leave, but in fact a cult where in some cases lives were threatened and families were destroyed. I didn't use my real name here or even a common nickname for me because I wanted to avoid losing contact with my parents and siblings. I recently found out that they all left TWI, so I would be ok with it now. I had to go through a lot of trouble to leave TWI without being declared "possessed" and Mark and Avoid like so many others I saw leave before me. I was secretly engaged to someone not in TWI, when my HFC made a comment that all of us unmarried guys had better not get too attached to girls outside the ministry, or he'd have to shoot us (he was a cop, and not a very friendly person.)
When you stopped going to "twig", there were no rules about how you would be suspected of being possessed if you didn't go every Sunday and Wednesday. When you left, you didn't have to file a vacation notification form to be sent to the limb coordinator, who would send it on to the limb coordinator of the place you were visiting. When you left, people didn't talk about how you were full of devil spirits and a threat to the lives of your twig. Lots of things changed, and your flippant attitude about using real names is not helpful.
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JesseJoe
Hi, Pond.
Paw pretty much said it, “Let me make one thing very clear, this site will never require a poster to use their real name in public or private!!!”
Although the issue is closed, I want to give you something else to consider beyond what Mister P has said.
When I found WayDale, and continued on to Grease Spot, I can’t tell you the amount of guilt and shame I had. I had failed everything. I had failed God. I had failed people I loved. I had hurt people in vicious verbal ways. I had shunned my family for many, many years. I turned my back on the ones I held most dear, both in and out of TWI. The only thing I felt I could right is string the F____ chairs. I was at the point my heart was a weak as my flesh, and 10,000 times as hard.
I don’t know if you can relate to that type of guilt and shame. All I wanted to do was stay hidden. But I wanted answers more than I wanted to hide, so I registered under my dog’s name. Jesse was my strength for a very long time.
If I had to use my real name and expose myself, I don’t think I would have ever been able to stand in the light again. I wouldn’t have been strong enough to register under my real name, let alone ask my questions, or comment on others, which was healing as well.
Some of my greatest understanding came because of the conflict, some of which I was right in the middle of. (Sorry Paw. I know I was part of the reason for your headaches then.) Even when I wasn't posting, many times the antagonist said what I was thinking. The arguments helped me weed out the garbage in my mind that the Way had put there.
Yes, many of us had been out of the Way for years before coming here. I had been out for 11 years, ’88 to ‘99. It took that long to find a place to help me get the Way out of me. Along with the Way, I lost the guilt and shame as well.
Just something to think about.
Shelly Patton
AKA JesseJoe
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Bramble
I thought about this thread all day.
I do think there is still need for an ex TWI place like this, but I don't think Pawtucket has to sacrifice his life and dreams to run it.
But I still know many people in TWI and I wonder about what it will be like for them if they ever leave. Some have been so obedient and so ground down for so long, with no voice, a fear of different opinions, fear of devil spirits. Then all the confusion of leaving friends and maybe family. I see them as having a difficult transition and needing a place like this for awhile. Finding a voice is important, I think, especially to the women who had both a 'head' and TWI leadership running her life!
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JeffSjo
One more little itty bitty thing.....
PAW, I'm very, very glad for the stand that you take on the anonymity issue.
Personally, as a non-anonymous poster I am espescially irked by anonymous posters who are against the choice for anonymous posting amoung TWI victims. IMO they have a real big friggin blind spot in regards to practicing what they preach. So who are you anyway.....
Hypocritical posers IMO.
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satori001
We're talking about these forums, dear.
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John M Knapp LMSW
Just a thought from a (mostly) lurker:
I would hate to see this forum go away. I hope that Pawtucket can find some to help share the burden.
GSC is a lively, complex, wonderful forum. I learn so much just lurking.
I'd be willing to help keep the forum going, if there is some way I can help.
J.
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