Uh, that's not because everyone else is afraid of reprisals - that they're contract with the Way will be turned over to Joey the Bull for collection. :) Do you really think by your math that 97,000 ex-Wayfers don't show up here because they're skeered out of their PJ's over what the Way will do if they say bad things about them?
I would assume the reason that some of those people don't flock to GS, register and post is because they don't give a crap. Anymore. Or enough of one to bother posting about it.
And the 100,000 number - I took PFAL in '68 and left in '89. 100 K is aggressive, I know it's been kicked around then and now as the probable number of PFAL grad's but me, I doubt that as of say 1985 that was the case. But I won't give anyone a hard time over using the number.
Yes, they don't care. 100,000 people +/- 100,000 people built a cult/scam and don't care. They are the other side of the story.
That's probably the best foundation from which to judge if GS, this board, "is still viable"?
To the current group of users - they speak for themselves, yes, no, maybe.
Those who don't care, don't for whatever reasons.
Probably the best gauge is the number of views and visits of the site pages. That still doesn't give a read into who's using what and why.
To get a true view of something you need at least two measurements, two points to determine a position or get a physical rendering. (longitude/latitude, length/width) The more points of reference, the better the view.
Two points could be - look at the number of responses in the poll. That could be labelled "regular users" - those who are registered, visit and care enough to vote in the poll.
Now get a views count of the site, how many people came to the GS site, maybe for several main pages. Average them.
Compare the two. If say, 50 people voted, but the site had 1,000 views that week - what's that say?
950 people don't care? Can't say that, we don't know that.
50 people care? Some level of interest is indicated by a vote, yes.
One interpretation of that data could be - there are a lot of users of the site whose motives aren't known. (I suspect, there's a lot of users who visit and read what's available to a non-registered reader that aren't accounted for - it's not knonw who or why. )
Another could be that there's 50 users who visit it a lot. That's something that could be known probably - how many times a registered user comes to the site and opens a page.
But "why" - hard to say. I would suggest though that if there's a wide gap between regular users who post and views of the site, the viability needs to be more clearly understood. Those who do participate can weigh in on that and would provide the only reliable information available. You can't reliably state why those who don't, don't, if they don't.
But if there's a lot of unknown visits over the registered posters who use the site regularly - that says something. What it means, hard to say.
Although it's a loaded phrase here, this does come down to "profitablity" - that is, is it profitable and if so, how much?
If this site were selling something, this kind of data would want to be known. And in a way, GS is selling something. A service, information, a community of common background that can address issues and topics of interest to that type of community, etc.
Paw's question is completely legitimate, if not only for personal reasons. And I'm starting to sense that the answer is revealing itself from the discussion. Individually to those who participate and for those "out there" who are unaccounted for. Still a lot of information isn't known or stated at this time, so the picture is somewhat incomplete. Just my .02.
There are different needs, and "viability" levels, for different audiences at GSC, I think.
I can think of a number of different audiences with different levels of needs from GSC: At the least newcomers, exploring leaving TWI, newly left TWI, people who are successfully out, people who are still challenged by pain or dysfunction, people looking for social connection, people actively looking for recovery resources, and the old-timers here who have heard it all before.
I think it would be good for admins to prioritize the audiences they want to reach. Perhaps follow up with polls for each audience to target their needs. This process might make the viability question, and its answer, clearer.
I got an answer to my question via an email just after Christmas. A dear friend that I met through TWI wanted to talk with me. She was in the corps and close to a number of leaders. Most of her family was involved on some level. And after leaving TWI, she was involved in some offshoot. I always knew that she had seen alot, but she seemed happy in her situation. We never talked about GS or any of the horrific side of TWI.
So she called. Got all the updates out and away. She told me that she's been listening to stuff that some ex-corps folks have been saying and realized that the "rosy" picture she's been remembering may not the real picture. (I am wondering why she is calling me) She went on to talk about an interview she listened to at a site called, GreaseSpot Cafe. The interview was with Kris Skedgell, who she has known for many years. She recognized the interviewer, me.
She wanted to know about the site and finding different articles, what to read first. Were the articles fact based. And she said, "Since it looks like you've done some work for them, do you have any recommendations about the site?"
My mind brought back that commercial about Hair for Men. "I'm not only the president, I"m a member, too."
We spent a few hours on the phone. Someone that left about 20 years ago, is getting some solid answers to questions that have plagued her for decades.
The viability answer was delivered to me by one of my dearest friends. I didn't like it at first, but it's grown on me in the past week.
Believe it or not, some of the things I want to accomplish have to do with this site. I have some interviews that I want to do. And some personal goals, too. I've gotten some great suggestions. I have proposed some things with the moderators and if we work out everything, then we will continue to keep the forums open.
hanng and rattle old buddy.... change is good esp when it comes as a result of honesty and thats what i get when i come here ........too bad its 35 years late
Now it is up to Paw to decide which way to go. Changing the way things are done here does not need to be the end of a journey. It can be a turn in the road or a change of drivers.
I've stated several times that I think Greasespot is more than viable...whether it's Paw or someone else, there are many good reasons to have an anti-twi website. Sounds like Pawtucket plans to continue this site...which means that I will continue to do what I do here...and I predict that we will continue to be a thorn in the side of the cult known as twi... :)
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waysider
How shall I put this delicately?
Some are---well---no longer amongst us.
We ain't gettin' no younger----Know what I mean?
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Bolshevik
Yes, they don't care. 100,000 people +/- 100,000 people built a cult/scam and don't care. They are the other side of the story.
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socks
Indeedy doody.
That's probably the best foundation from which to judge if GS, this board, "is still viable"?
To the current group of users - they speak for themselves, yes, no, maybe.
Those who don't care, don't for whatever reasons.
Probably the best gauge is the number of views and visits of the site pages. That still doesn't give a read into who's using what and why.
To get a true view of something you need at least two measurements, two points to determine a position or get a physical rendering. (longitude/latitude, length/width) The more points of reference, the better the view.
Two points could be - look at the number of responses in the poll. That could be labelled "regular users" - those who are registered, visit and care enough to vote in the poll.
Now get a views count of the site, how many people came to the GS site, maybe for several main pages. Average them.
Compare the two. If say, 50 people voted, but the site had 1,000 views that week - what's that say?
950 people don't care? Can't say that, we don't know that.
50 people care? Some level of interest is indicated by a vote, yes.
One interpretation of that data could be - there are a lot of users of the site whose motives aren't known. (I suspect, there's a lot of users who visit and read what's available to a non-registered reader that aren't accounted for - it's not knonw who or why. )
Another could be that there's 50 users who visit it a lot. That's something that could be known probably - how many times a registered user comes to the site and opens a page.
But "why" - hard to say. I would suggest though that if there's a wide gap between regular users who post and views of the site, the viability needs to be more clearly understood. Those who do participate can weigh in on that and would provide the only reliable information available. You can't reliably state why those who don't, don't, if they don't.
But if there's a lot of unknown visits over the registered posters who use the site regularly - that says something. What it means, hard to say.
Although it's a loaded phrase here, this does come down to "profitablity" - that is, is it profitable and if so, how much?
If this site were selling something, this kind of data would want to be known. And in a way, GS is selling something. A service, information, a community of common background that can address issues and topics of interest to that type of community, etc.
Paw's question is completely legitimate, if not only for personal reasons. And I'm starting to sense that the answer is revealing itself from the discussion. Individually to those who participate and for those "out there" who are unaccounted for. Still a lot of information isn't known or stated at this time, so the picture is somewhat incomplete. Just my .02.
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John M Knapp LMSW
There are different needs, and "viability" levels, for different audiences at GSC, I think.
I can think of a number of different audiences with different levels of needs from GSC: At the least newcomers, exploring leaving TWI, newly left TWI, people who are successfully out, people who are still challenged by pain or dysfunction, people looking for social connection, people actively looking for recovery resources, and the old-timers here who have heard it all before.
I think it would be good for admins to prioritize the audiences they want to reach. Perhaps follow up with polls for each audience to target their needs. This process might make the viability question, and its answer, clearer.
Just a thought.
J.
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pawtucket
This is a very good discussion.
I got an answer to my question via an email just after Christmas. A dear friend that I met through TWI wanted to talk with me. She was in the corps and close to a number of leaders. Most of her family was involved on some level. And after leaving TWI, she was involved in some offshoot. I always knew that she had seen alot, but she seemed happy in her situation. We never talked about GS or any of the horrific side of TWI.
So she called. Got all the updates out and away. She told me that she's been listening to stuff that some ex-corps folks have been saying and realized that the "rosy" picture she's been remembering may not the real picture. (I am wondering why she is calling me) She went on to talk about an interview she listened to at a site called, GreaseSpot Cafe. The interview was with Kris Skedgell, who she has known for many years. She recognized the interviewer, me.
She wanted to know about the site and finding different articles, what to read first. Were the articles fact based. And she said, "Since it looks like you've done some work for them, do you have any recommendations about the site?"
My mind brought back that commercial about Hair for Men. "I'm not only the president, I"m a member, too."
We spent a few hours on the phone. Someone that left about 20 years ago, is getting some solid answers to questions that have plagued her for decades.
The viability answer was delivered to me by one of my dearest friends. I didn't like it at first, but it's grown on me in the past week.
Believe it or not, some of the things I want to accomplish have to do with this site. I have some interviews that I want to do. And some personal goals, too. I've gotten some great suggestions. I have proposed some things with the moderators and if we work out everything, then we will continue to keep the forums open.
I appreciate all the input.
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JesseJoe
Paw, reading your post brought tears to my eyes, for many reasons.
Smiling,
Shelly
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JeffSjo
Thanks for sharing PAW.
I am very glad that for now the forums will continue to be open.
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skypilot
hanng and rattle old buddy.... change is good esp when it comes as a result of honesty and thats what i get when i come here ........too bad its 35 years late
do what you gotta do
thanks
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GeorgeStGeorge
Cool.
George
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GrouchoMarxJr
I've stated several times that I think Greasespot is more than viable...whether it's Paw or someone else, there are many good reasons to have an anti-twi website. Sounds like Pawtucket plans to continue this site...which means that I will continue to do what I do here...and I predict that we will continue to be a thorn in the side of the cult known as twi... :)
Is it true that Rosie is a bulldyke?
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now I see
Good question Groucho! Â
...And thanks Paw! Â You're keeping GS open for this kind of great commentary and inquisition!!!!Â
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GarthP2000
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