Another Poll

[Ham]

to which I say.. not unlike another post in another context..

"the situation is URGENT. NOW might be a good time.. "

don't feel pressured or anything though..

well.. God bless you friends.. whatever may come..

[Shellon]

Indeed, no assumptions, please. We've not made any plans of marriage, etc.

And it's not about that, as far as greasespot goes, I just threw that in there because it's nice that Paw can have a personal, private life and enjoy the love of me and my girls in his world; he deserves that.

And if a website is completely consuming, he misses out on some of the good in his private life that he should be allowed to have.

That is why I mentioned it; he deserves happiness as much as anyone. Any plans we make are part of that privacy at this point.

[socks]

Hmmm...seems there's a lot going on here.

P-T, you definitely sound like it's time to get out of the active GreaseSpot business. I can see why you're approaching it carefully.

Suggestion #432: do a hand-off. It appears that there's some interest in keeping GS alive and functioning with the forums active. Maybe anyone interested can PM you or maybe you've got someone in mind to approach, if you haven't already. An orderly passing of the mouse could be planned out and although it's surely not an easy task a date set to phase out ownership. This could all happen very quickly, inside a month.

Suggestion #432A: do it in phases. One - work out the details and the logistics. Oh yeah, identify the new "owner". Two - sunset out. You're a computer geek - you know the drill. :) New management in place, and you're around providing consultation. Three - Millah - time. You've effectively checked out. You're still a part of the community as much as you want to be, or not but have no direct responsibilities because now it's someone else's turn to get those emails.

I've never taken to the whole Mod'ing thing as you've probably noticed. I know it's important but I try to ignore the fact that any of the GS participants feel they need you or anyone to referee some post content or read somebody the riot act. The extreme side of it - threats and the like - that's nowhere. That's out of hand unacceptable and dishonorable behavior, but so it goes apparently. I completely understand you not wanting to do that anymore because I would never do it. So I'm not your ideal candidate to say the least, for the record. But someone who has a feel for that side of it might be able to do it, knowing going in what's required.

I don't agree ("agree" - he said agree, hehehehehhhhehehehe) with all that's posted on GS but the board as an entity is for public particpation with a few simple rules. I've always felt like - if someone doesn't like it, don't participate. Or "disagree all you want but please be courteous". Or agree all you want, and please be couteous. Or stand on your head and whistle Freight Train backwards. It's so simple it's crazy that anyone would have a problem with it.

Anyhoo - GS, like WayDale before it has been a unique experience in Way related activities and at some point you might consider a memoir or collection of your thoughts and observations on the time you've invested. I think that would be a very good read, my friend.

[JesseJoe]

Hey Paw.

I can tell you what this site has meant to me, personally. Because of you, I was able to explore my losses, my regrets, my mistakes, my beliefs, even my sexuality. You made available an environment where I could expose myself, as I hid. Grease Spot allowed me to speak my truth and be challenged to reconsider my position, or embrace it, whatever the case may be.

I am very happy with my life, Paw. The things I learned here, about TWI and myself as I posted, were the catalyst to my freedom. I still have chains. I will always have chains. But those chains are less binding because of you.

I remember a similar panic when WayDale closed. It was very hard for the many of us who had come to depend on what we had found there. WayDale did close, and someone else carried on the healing. Paw, someone will always carry on the healing.

I have mixed emotions about the Grease Spot forums closing. I haven’t posted in years, but I do lurk. For me, having the forums close will be like losing a friend: in this case, losing a friend to a life of love and companionship. It would be bittersweet.

I learned to express my thoughts here, Paw.

Thank you.

Shelly

(((((((((((((excathedra))))))))))))

[satori001]

Hey JesseJoe (Shelly), nice to see you're still out there and well.

--

I think GreaseSpot "jumped the shark" back in '02 when it was decided posters could no longer edit their posts after the first hour, thereby greatly diminishing the individual poster's editorial control over his or her posts. As with Happy Days, the shark-jumping did not bring down the show for years to come. (Happy Days ran strong for 6 more years, despite that scene written to be the show's posthumous suicide note, according to Mr. Winkler. The fans didn't notice. What's that tell ya?)

WayDale was the wild west, with a strong sheriff, but paradoxically, plenty of freedom, because it had the rebel/outlaw spirit of its founder Paul Allen, who was first and foremost determined to (lawfully) extort his just revenge by holding the searing (devastatingly humiliating) iron of truth to the heart of Wierwille's dishonorable and dirty legacy. Allen would not be trifled with.

It is a joy to imagine how those pompous ministry @sses must have felt at the thought of WayDale's presence, freely accessible (available, receivable, and what-to-do-able) to anyone able to search AltaVista, InfoSeek, excite, Yahoo, Lycos or DogPile, maybe even Google beta.

Those Way Ministry "leaders" were people who would blanch at the sight of a gum wrapper floating in the Fountain of Living Wayfers (beneath which a tentacled Victopus occupies something like Davy Jones' locker, feeding on carp and occasionally one of Rosalie's diseased cats), and suddenly those people, those frauds, those predators whose success depended upon the "secrecy of their moves," were laid bare and exposed before the world, by a cloud of witnesses, on this new devil called "WayDale," in this emerging hell called the World Wide Web. (Imagine how they must love that phrase.) WayDale had a jack and brought it down nicely on Martindale's riz'n and expanded forehead.

But I think the reincarnated Greasespot wasn't entirely happy, with WayDale or with itself. This is because new personalities began to express themselves, to "help." Year by year the refinements imposed at the insistence of nit-pickers and "miserable comforters" (an obsequious, manipulative and duplicitous posse of pretenders comes to mind, but they came in abundance) that settled like layers of sediment over the heart and soul of the ex-Way rebellion. Those people would not have gotten far with ex-TWI because his motivation was personal and passionate. But they saw opportunity in Pawtucket's limitations, and his good nature.

Neither did those people ever intend to improve Greasespot's reach and power. They wanted rather to control or suppress its individual voices, thereby its spontaneous and living, collective voice - to manage it into submission, so nothing too unpleasant or unsettling to their Way-brained, gum-wrapper fixations would be permitted. Greasespot had to look presentable in the new, polite society they meant to impose. And impose they did.

They appear to have succeeded for some time now.

--

Post Script - Since Greasespot has outlived it's original usefulness (and the shark has seen better days, too), but found miraculous, new life as a kind of assisted living facility, with lots of supersight and overvision, I think socks' idea is stellar.

[now I see]

One option no one is discussing is that anyone of us, or a group of us could start our own website forum, especially if Paw needs to either be cut free of GS as soon as possible, or leave it in an archival state.

Passing the mantle is a tradition already, Waydale to Greasespot, Greasepot to ???  There are a lot of web hosting companies out there providing solutions, and web hosting can be done in many different ways. 

I have been involved with another website that recently split 3 different ways after the original owner died.  The original forum was carried on by the brother, but some of the mods got together and started their own web forum, and one other poster started their own too.  The mods site does very well, has a lot of traffic, carved out its own niche and has the same heart as the original website.  The original forum run by the brother is doing well also.  The other poster's website didn't fare so well and tanked.

The same dynamic could happen here too, if Paw needs his life back, for whatever reasons, he should be able to shut GS down, and another website could carry on as a forum.

Edited December 27, 2008 by now I see

[Oakspear]

I think GreaseSpot "jumped the shark" back in '02 when it was decided posters could no longer edit their posts after the first hour, thereby greatly diminishing the individual poster's editorial control over his or her posts.

Yes, greatly diminishing a poster's freedom to stir the sh!t pot, provoke comments, then go back and delete the original statement. Right. That was the defining moment of the downward slide.

WayDale was the wild west, with a strong sheriff, but paradoxically, plenty of freedom, because it had the rebel/outlaw spirit of its founder Paul Allen, who was first and foremost determined to (lawfully) extort his just revenge by holding the searing (devastatingly humiliating) iron of truth to the heart of Wierwille's dishonorable and dirty legacy. Allen would not be trifled with.

Paul also didn't hesitate to edit or delete posts that did not futher the "mission" of WayDale. WayDale was also a relatively short-lived entity, disappearing around the same time Paul & his wife settled with TWI. Whether the shutdown of WD was a requirement of the settlement, or the Allans just wanted to move on is unknown to me, but "strong sheriff" Allan held the searing iron of truth to TWI's heart for as long as it took to achieve his personal goals.

Not to dismiss or minimize Paul's or WayDale's role, but let's not put them on a pedastal or turn them into legendary figures.

...new personalities began to express themselves, to "help." Year by year the refinements imposed at the insistence of nit-pickers and "miserable comforters" (an obsequious, manipulative and duplicitous posse of pretenders comes to mind, but they came in abundance) that settled like layers of sediment over the heart and soul of the ex-Way rebellion.

And they all gathered on the grassy knoll at Area 51...

Those people would not have gotten far with ex-TWI because his motivation was personal and passionate.

One of the strengths of GS is that it isn't personal...

Pawtucket will make the decision that is best for him I hope. But whether he closes all or part of the place down, GS still is viable, people still come here to learn "the other side of the story" and interact with other ex-TWI folks. It's still a place where we can hash out together what went on to us individually and collectively. A place where we can contrast and compare where we we have gone spiritually and otherwise since we left.

If it goes, I for one will miss it.

[krys]

I think I would miss it too Oakspear.

Maybe now would be a good time for Mr. Tuckett to reconsider permanently banning those who's claim to fame is stirring the pot to evoke turmoil. Methinks that would be helpful. Learn the phone numbers of those offensive callers and when those numbers show up on caller I.D. don't pick up. Create a rule in your address book in whatever email program is your favorite which dumps the emails of your antagonists to your circular file.

For all this time, Pawtuckett has provided GSC for us, according to what we wanted ("hey Paw, can we have a picture forum????") Of course he had his reasons for doing it, and none of those reasons had even a single hurtful thought in them.

I don't understand all the in's and out's of running a website-forum such as this, so I know this is an oversimplification - - - maybe now is the time for Pawtuckett to align the Cafe with Burger King and have it HIS WAY.

[GarthP2000]

I think GreaseSpot "jumped the shark" back in '02 when it was decided posters could no longer edit their posts after the first hour, thereby greatly diminishing the individual poster's editorial control (read: ability to cover one's rear over his or her posts. ... (and so on, and so forth )

Ie., a long, bloated, and round-about self-serving way of saying "Hell! Now I can't cover my foot anymore, cuz now _my_ comments have to be 'laid bare and exposed before the world'". <_< You had all the editorial control you needed when you were typing in your post to begin with, chief. It's the same amount of 'editorial control' you have when you (are supposed to) think before you talk in any social situation.

Actually, Paw via GS showed a lot more tolerance in many ways than even Waydale, as I've seen a good number of abusive comments yanked off of Waydale message boards more often than here on GS. And GS was/is just as equally effective at holding the searing iron to TWI's feet as Waydale has been.

But no, you get a few of _your_ messages smacked by Paw, and evidently its still a sore point with you. ... Get used to it, guy.

You'll live.

[satori001]

Hey Oakspear, Area 51 and grassy knoll? Wasn't "sarcasm" banned here, or do you apply that only to others, and selectively?

Look I'd be happy to name the names. You know as well as I do, I would then be accused of a "personal attack." The thread would soon fail, as so many others have. That is what this community has come to. Agree, don't agree, I don't really care.

As for your "stir the pot" comment, you're right, it could happen. Posters who "abused" the right to edit would soon earn that reputation and their rep would follow them, as it should. That changes nothing. Waydale permitted it, and Waydale succeeded in ways that still challenge Greasespot.

--

Garth, you're never less than consistent.

[Tom Strange]

I'm selfish... I want it to stay open cuz I've made some good friends here... but I spoze that I'll still be able to find a way to keep in touch with them if it closes down...

...but if you're gonna lock it down, give us a couple of days notice so those of us who like to talk baseball can figure out a different place to meet please... :)

[MATILDA]

Mein Duff...heil! You are the onliest duffster I know and hold great fondness for. (the only place I can dangle participles and not get reamed...)

It's the only puter space I visit, and in years of late, post on. Purely selfish on my part. But it (this place) has often been a happy respite for the ~, even if relatively infrequently.

You da man.

All you mod-types...thank you.

Shellbert! Woweekazowee...:)

My e-addy is the only thing I think that's listed on the profile thing...it's current...and any story I may have told in this cyberland over the years are true. Honest native-American.

X

M

[GarthP2000]

Garth, you're never less than consistent.

Why thank you for the compliment! :) ... I believe that being consistent is a principled approach, wouldn't you agree? ;)

See, you _can_ be decent.

[Oakspear]

Wasn't "sarcasm" banned here,

No - from the "revised rules" thread:

Be aware that sarcasm toward another poster can quickly turn a discussion into a flame war.

I figured that you and I were big enough boys that the mild sarcasm wouldn't derail your train of thought.

Agree, don't agree, I don't really care.

Okay <_<

[socks]

A protected habitat for dangling marsupials! Sweet!

My suggestion is one of the most obvious, satori if the decision is to continue. Several things come to mind reading the thread and Paw's comments. The overall direction and tone of the board is one but the most important one to him (I would think) is what the board requires and the quality of that committment.

now i see offers another one, pretty nifty. Move the discussion board to a new location. The community at large is intact enough to make that move successfully and those who come to a static GS in the future could hit the link to that.

But - as long as GS exists online, there will be a reaction to repond to what's here, in some form. A "contact us" or "webmaster" link will definitely get more emails than "nice site" or "thanks!". The nature of the content is what it is and there will definitely be someone, somewhere hitting the email button. Who gets that? What exactly will this site be?

That's the issue I think for Pawtucket, in addition to the discussion board. I don't think the answer - for him, just a guess - is that GS is a part time job for life. The answer is to transfer ownership or end it I would think but there may be other options too.

For my part I'd want to assure you Mr. Paw, that your decision either way is yours to make and to not feel the burden of letting others down or disappointing anyone. That might sound minor but I'm sure you feel that, the desire to not want to hurt others in the process by taking something personal and valuable from them.

If that's the case it says a lot about GS, in terms of evaluating it's meaning. There are endeavors that could disappear tomorrow and no one would notice or care. Meaning something to someone, somewhere - that's a good thing.

[excathedra]

i'm in agreement with satori and socks

and also want to send my love to (((((((((((satori and JesseJoe)))))))))))))) socks of course too but you're actually here still

one thing that really bothered me oakspear is when you quoted something i wrote IMMEDIATELY but made no comment. i still figure you did that because you knew i could still go back and edit it, but your quote would always be there. when i PM'd you, you said it was because you had to leave the site and go somewhere..... but you were still on-line as far as i could see. and even if not, why make sure i couldn't edit something in 12 hrs or whatever it is if i wanted to?

i don't like being micromanaged

i'm very very grateful for you, paw, and all that has happened to help me along the way, but i am the type who stays in things for punishment lol

the fellow with a tierra (sp?) says he'll take it on, but i don't know him excpet he likes the opera

also refiner (remember him?) has a whole section of his site devoted to TWI

why, when we say certain things, does it have to be such a personal overmanaged thing?

we had enough, and it looks like you've had enough, paw

i will always be grateful

[excathedra]

another thing that fiasco with ralph and bill was so unfair !

if this place is all about being politically ha or whatever (loyalty wise) correct, that's just wrong

if it comes down to having to agree, which i believe it has, bye bye

i'm pathetic aren't i ? no life lol

ps. can one be co-dependent to a website ?

[pawtucket]

another thing that fiasco with ralph and bill was so unfair !

if this place is all about being politically ha or whatever (loyalty wise) correct, that's just wrong

if it comes down to having to agree, which i believe it has, bye bye

i'm pathetic aren't i ? no life lol

ps. can one be co-dependent to a website ?

What was unfair?

[excathedra]

ohmygosh don't you remember

the whole thing got deleted

[pawtucket]

ohmygosh don't you remember

the whole thing got deleted

What part was unfair?

I thought Rhino was being an foot.

[excathedra]

there you go. exactly.

[pawtucket]

You've never be told to agree, and you know it.

[excathedra]

he asked some legitimate questions of a higher-up but they weren't allowed becaues of too much emotion

i don't agree with a lot, but i'm afraid to say so

[Oakspear]

Well it's nice to know that this Refiner guy has a place where you can go [-----]. You know, since it's so repressive and unfair over here.

[excathedra]

maybe that should tell you something