Just to be clear, The main site will NOT close. The maintenance on that is fairly simple.
The forums will be available in one form or another indefinitely. I've gotten a lot of ideas. The worst case scenario is that I make the forums read only.
I have time I can invest, but not enough computer savy, could the computer savyness be contracted out, with the cost offset by ads, affiliate links and banners on GS?
If no one steps up and the site goes archival, perhaps a bulletin board feature could be established and maybe moderated with a 24-48 hour delay by someone other than Paw.
The way the ex-twi yahoo group site operates is they always have a 24 hour moderator delay on all posts, albeit, its much smaller than GS, maybe the forums could be parceled out to different mods for each section.  Although alot of the life would be missing from the forum that way, but all nastiness and inappropriate comments could be filtered out before they go online.
The most useful information on "About The Way" forum is in the older threads imo. When was the last time a good nugget of info was posted on the forum that wasn't posted already? The new threads just bury the old ones and make searching for info a PITA. I've had people who've seen greasespot come to me just to help clear things up. This forum's purpose was served years ago. Why waste more energy trying to moderate it? Keep the best threads up front and archive the others.
The "connecting" forums, people are searching for other people, might be the only ones of real value to leave open imo.
Well I think it should stay open but I also think Pawtucket should have a life too.
I am new here so I know I don't have much right to really say much but this is how I feel. yes the information is there in the old threads but For me the thing about GSC that has helped me the most is my interactions with other grease spotters. They have directed me to other threads and they are right there when someone goes off on some bizzarro tangent. To give some balance. The Moderators are un obtrusive and most people on here seem to genuinely care about one another and try to help people who wander in.
I know the site is yours Paw to do with as you please but I wish there was some way that you could allow or direct those of us willing to help out with the site jump in and take some of the burden off your shoulders.
NO pressure here or anything like that ; ).
Also I believe a lot of the current threads are helpful to people too, even if they are rehashing what was said before. I love the forgiveness thread and for me at least I have found a peace with my past and I am still digging into the doctrinal errors and working my way through all that.
I love the Grease spot radio and I have listened to about half of those so far.
Best of all is talking to former wayfers like myself and finding out who I knew is where and finding out some of the things I felt or encountered were not just me. Learning about what people have done.
What ever you decide I know it will be what is right but I hope some how it can be kept open.
i'm not quite sure i understand all this, but i hope to god it would be interactive since i have no one to talk to except here
i don't want to read, i hardly do that anyway ha
but like i said, i don't want you to be hurt anymore paw. i mean that. i'm probably one of the people you wish didn't come here, but i don't know what to say. i just can't jump on the bandwagon. my loyalty to you is love and gratitude beyond words, but not necessarily agreement, and for that i'm sorry
It's not a matter of agreeing with paw - it's a matter of treating him with the respect we'd appreciate being treated with. Paw has been amazing in his ability to "allow" all of us our own opinions here. Apparently there are posters who have unloaded their crap on him so much that it sours his GS experience, and that's just got to stop.
Paw - I have some ability, time, energy, etc. to contribute in whatever capacity you'd find helpful. I also have a very computer-savvy son at my disposal almost 24/7. I work from home so I am in and out of here many times each day already. I never volunteered to be a moderator, but I'm volunteering right now to do anything I can that would help lighten your load. I've come to know you well enough that if we lived in the same town I'd want to hang out with you. I hate that you're feeling all of this pressure and will gladly do whatever I can to help.
The way the ex-twi yahoo group site operates is they always have a 24 hour moderator delay on all posts, albeit, its much smaller than GS, maybe the forums could be parceled out to different mods for each section.  Although alot of the life would be missing from the forum that way, but all nastiness and inappropriate comments could be filtered out before they go online.
It's been years since I tried to go there, but I seem to remember having difficulties there in the past because they didn't tolerate non-Christian standpoints. Pawtucket, despite being Christian himself, has an open mind and lets anyone post here as long as it is done respectfully.
Paw, I volunteer to be one of your elves, if you like. I've got time, and I've got experience building and maintaining Web sites. Last year I took an early retirement from the US Department of Defense, where I was a project manager and senior data analyst. Supervised the building and daily management of several Web sites. So I know how it is. It's always something and it's one d*mn#d thing after another, is how it is! I'm not afraid of it, and I'm not easily intimidated by people. It takes guts to wear a tiara, you know.
You know, I've been posting here since what, 2002, and I never thought about what it must take to run this thing. I apologize for being so self-centered.
You do what you need to do. I for one think you have done one helluva job of making it available for people to vent, ask questions, get answers, get healing.
What was it you said? "We will tell the other side of the story, and have some fun doing it."
It isn't fun for you any more, is it?
Life's too short to carry this burden.
Close it down. Relax, have some fun, go someplace warm and sip rum drinks in a hammock for a while. Give it a rest, and then if you feel like you want to start something up again, smaller and simpler, let us know, and take a crack at it.
Ultimately, you need to concern yourself primarily with yourself.
If you don't take care of yourself, you'll fall down and go splat,
and then will be unable to help anyone at all.
(snip)
These forums take an awful lot of management. People take issue with just about everything that is decided. For example, after the new rules were set, one brilliant poster put up hate videos of our president elect, very nasty stuff. He asked "Why, you don't have any rules about "hate" videos?" This person wants every ethical standard defined? How low was he willing to go without rules? Granted he is an exception to the rule, hopefully, but crap like that comes up each and every day.
See, most other messageboards don't make any attempt to be so transparent
in their dealings. Twits get a suspension or a ban and that's it.
Anyone doesn't like it, they can leave.
I've tried to run a simple site, yet inviting for those that wanted to hear the other side of the story. It worked for many years. But I had to be married to this. (try explaining this place to a significant other!!) I am no longer willing to do that. You don't have any idea the price I've paid.
As much as the GSC means to us, has meant to us, if it crashed irretrievably tomorrow,
we'd all survive one way or another.
You have to find a healthier method of managing things-including your own life.
If that requires-and you're the only one who can truly know for sure-
that you close up the shop and throw away the keys, well, so be it.
Those of us who don't care more about your well-being SHOULD.
Is it possible the GSC could be delegated, and only "appeals" to the Admin's
decisions be directed to Paw?
With mods handling day-to-day, and one or more Admins evaluating and making
I got complaints when there weren't enough moderators. Then I got complaints when I fixed the problem!! Then some smart foot was demanding that the mods not have two identities!!! I tried that and it did not work, people crucified them.
If people don't like the way you're managing, you're not legally accountable to them.
This is why admins are often likened to ogres.
They have to lay down the law and that's it.
Heck, there's a site for people that want to trash this place, how's them apples!!
Obviously, it's a sign you're having an effect on people.
Otherwise, they wouldn't even think of you or your site.
As for me, I'm curious about the other site. Mainly, I want to know what they said
about me. If they're not trash-talking me, I may not be getting enough done!
No matter what decisions are made, voices will be raised in opposition as loudly
as possible. That's pretty much a constant in human experience.
It's not a matter of agreeing with paw - it's a matter of treating him with the respect we'd appreciate being treated with. Paw has been amazing in his ability to "allow" all of us our own opinions here. Apparently there are posters who have unloaded their crap on him so much that it sours his GS experience, and that's just got to stop.
just shut it down for awhile, take a break , no one will suffer for it really and pawtucket may find life will be better for it .
I do not see the problem.
This place is a social club wherefriends meet up for the most part you can pick and chose leave the chat room or what ever I certain other avenues are availabel for folks to talk on the internet.
If you want later in a while open in back up or not. Take a vacation. why not? what is the issue really?
No one is in twi screaming for information about "what happened?, anymore. the information here can be just as good as read only. If people feel that strongly about giving their thoughts about twi for another decade they can open their own web site and a link can be provided from here.
I really do fail to see the issue, if anything is messin with my life it has to go now Im getting way to old for play a fool about anything anymore.
Some people walk among us in this world with a heart of helping, a spirit of giving, a mind of care for others. To not do that is so un-natural as to cause them to not function to their full capacity.
Even to the point of themselves losing what they deserve. We can tell them 'til we all puke to cut it out, take care of themselves, show them where the brakes on the damn machine are, but they'll still keep pushing because, to them, it's the right thing to do.
These are not bad qualities in their lives, until it causes problems in areas of health, welfare and daily happiness.
Imagine, if you can, a typical day of running such a site as this.
You have a full time job, outside your home, it's a fine job and you like it; in fact you go there to rest and get away from your other jobs, such as a site of ex cult people.
Of course you have email at your full time 'normal' job where letters of "hey you a##hole, why didn't you let me post that I was angry that bubba breathed my air'. This is all well and good, maybe even a little funny. At first.
Eventually those little silly emails and PM's grow to be things like threats to your life and those you love. You don't want to read them, know you shouldn't read them, but somehow have to read them and they drain you to the point of nothing left. If you don't respond to them, you get more, just to make sure you heard the first time. If you do respond, you are validating them and that invites more.
Never mind that you've asked that they please stop.
You have to deal with putting out little fires all day, then the huge ones 'cuz maybe you took a lunch break or attended a meeting your boss requires of you. Your heart is clearly in the right place, you know you're doing it for the betterment of the site and those that do enjoy it and not take advantage. But it's all consuming.
You get home from your normal job and never get any transition time from office/home, can't really fix a meal much less eat it quietly 'cuz the phone is ringing. It's people who've either managed to get your number or some fool you trusted gave it to them, or worse; you trusted them and they made different decisions with it.
Kick back with a movie in your living room? Nah, that aint happening, either. Someone is ....ed off at someone else and never mind that you've suggested they deal with so and such and do this or that. They insist that you do and won't relent til you do something, anything. But, don't forget the funnest part: whatever you do will be wrong, always.
A private life? HA! That aint happening, my friend. Suppose you fall in love and wish to spend time alone with your new love? The phone rings, the hate mail continues, the fights rage on. Would it help if you stated your new love and ask for some time alone? That is coupled with the reality that you shouldn't HAVE to ask.
So the relationship doesn't last, it dies of sheer neglect, abandoned like others because your life requires too much time at the site you manage. But you don't really have time to even deal with that loss, with the 3 am phone calls from posters, or the 8 am emails kicking your butt cuz you didn't take their 3 am phone call. Try to have coffee with your spouse/partner, try to go on a date.
All of this reminds me of being a mama and those of us that do that know about trying to find time alone to take a shower and we know that as soon as we sit down to a movie, the kid is gonna puke supper all over, have a fever of 105 and the rest of the next four days is going to be anything but what we need to be doing, cuz that's what we do.
Pawtucket maybe should just walk away, maybe he should tell us all to shove off and he'd never look back. Personally, I say do it. But I know the man and know it's not that easy for him. Which is exactly why he presented here and asked for input.
He's a quiet man, not one to ask of others. He should, yes, but he doesn't. If he and I are having a lovely conversation, he's there with me, but he's also knowing he needs to be emailing back to someone about why their best friend from TWI suddenly is mad at them or why they can't log into the site or taking on some new threat to his body part.
He's a kind man. This is another reason he losses out, which is so wrong. If you or I need something, he'll find a way to get it for us. It doesn't matter that he needs things too, and doesn't ask.
He's a humble man. He'd never EVER ask that anyone know he funds this place of his own bank account, with the occasional assist from others. He used to fully enjoy doing so, truly enjoy it. And probably still would if it were appreciated and taken care of by those to whom he provides it.
He's a proud man. Why would he tell anyone that the place is consuming him, he made a promise to tell the other side of the story and have some fun doing it and he'll do it, come hell or high water or loss to his own life.
As someone who loves him as I do, the most painful part is the loss to his funny bone. I regret that most never get to see that side of Pawtucket. But how could he feel funny, feel like sharing the funny, how might he be creative; there's nothing left.
Yup, he could turn off his phone, indeed he could shut off his computers, of course he could. But that's easier to say than do; no matter how it might be for us. I pulled myself away from the emotions of Greasespot a long time ago and even as just one of the simple consumers, it was tough. If he does turn off his phone or computers, the reality is that when he gets back to them, it's going to be way worse than it might have been if he'd just dealt with them then. How many of you like hearing on your voice mail 14 times from the same person, who's started being threatening and ugly by the 4th time? To just shut his mind off of that is not an easy task.
For those of you who have grown sick of this place, been hurt by something said or done here, wandered over to the other places of those that did the same, I ask you a question. Do you ever find yourself still thinking of Greasespot, being drawn back here, having to take just one more look, maybe things are better today? Then imagine that a hundred fold or more, thinking you are somehow responsible for it's dynamics and if you try one more thing or attempt once more with the one mad at you, it'll work this time.
Now imagine being the administrator her, the boss if you will. You have to make sure things are smooth running and the "business" is bustling along as it should. Never mind that you have that other normal job that pays the rent; thankfully it's only 8-9 hours a day.
Paw has amazing moderators here that do an outstanding job and he's not set up the moderating team willynilly. They are strong people, with as differing personalities as you or me or us. However, it doesn't matter anyway, since people don't like how he does that either. I, for one, am thrilled the mods are not named. That would only add to the crap pawtucket would have to deal with. At least this way, they can deal with their own crap. I defy anyone who doesn't like the way the mod gig is operated to BE a moderator, then let others' know it's you and have your phone ring at 2 am to fix something, tell paw, extend a special favor, etc.
This is a very unique thing Pawtucket has built here, I wish more realized that. One man can not accept the responsibility of a site for ex-cult people if simply for that reason alone. We're not a quiet bunch, we're not a simple bunch, we're mostly all type A personalities who demand, insist and complain.
And he gets that, he wants to help, he desires to be part of the solution, to be part of the place to freely express that. But every day with every other personality, every other life style, every other issue and problem, who wouldn't get tired?
It's cost him time where he might have explored other hobbies, privately. It's cost him love where he might have move into areas of new experiences, it's cost him friendships, which breaks my heart the most. It's cost him so much.
We might love paw and express and sing his praises when he says "stop!!", but until he does that, do we even notice the man? We feel a certain amount of remorse and guilt when we realize we've taken advantage or something provided us freely. We accept responsibility when it's suggested that things might not continue on as before.
What I wish had happened all along were more of the 'hey, thanks paw' or the "great site, how can I help paw?". Not just when things are expressed. I wish those that want to be butts hadn't somehow believed they had any right to do so. Things have been said or done to paw in regards to this place that those doing the saying and doing would NEVER allow in their own lives.
Some have likened this to twi in that in order to leave they have to do so with bells and whistles and attention; make sure others are aware that it's controlling, there is a man of god and his cohorts and stay away. Others leave quietly in that dark night, sad but never expressing what they feel.
It's not twi, it's not a cult, it's not a church, it's not a sounding board for our lifes blood, sweat and tears to the point of drowning the purpose of the original point. It was designed to be a place to expose where needed, express when necessary, discuss to the end of healing and understanding. But the best part was the 'and have fun doing it'. How many even knew about that part?
I'd be curious to know how many even notice paw or the mods unless/until they do something unpopular, unliked. You ever sent a note 'Just because" or dropped a thank you in the box of appreciation? Many did, of course, and they're so very noted and thanked back, and I think paw knows he can count on them to do so again, unsolicited.
I love the man and I want to build a life with him, period, so for me to see Greasespot be a place of good for him is purely selfish, but we deserve that. I don't want to see it close it's doors either, it's of great value and need. It's because of his heart of giving and his tenderness in helping, his humor, his fight and drive that I do love him. I wouldn't be interested in a man who could easily turn his back on his fellow man or woman in their time of need. I also hate to see the man's pain at his fellow man or woman not understanding that he has a life of his own and it's as important as theirs.
Look at your own lives and wander back into your own memory or things that happened that were at least partly caused by other things being forced into the forefront, leaving behind the really important things like communication with someone you love, time alone, new memories, building a family.
You ever miss a kids school concert 'cuz something blew up at work? Ever miss a deadline at work that cost you dearly 'cuz you had a sick kid at home? Do that too many times and you're gonna lose one of them.
maybe more will answer being the holidays some may not be online, but really the core of who is who at this site has voted I think.
those who feel the pull as Shellon describes have probably voted as it has been a few days and Pawtucket as the author always gets a look from the masses due to his fame.
it seems to me 45 people can get together on another chat room and do what they need to do to satisfy their need to talk.
As far as folks dealing with emotional attachments to the internet and web sites, well ... that is an increasing problem in the world today .
Choices in life esp. as we grow more comfortable as we age are often difficult.
doesnt make them bad or good just choices.
most of the who is who have one anothers e-mail etc. so again emotional attachments to what you do on your down time aside.. I still fail to see the issue.
what are you afraid will happen if you stop the web site?
As far as I know we can block any unwanted mail or phone calls from our life.
I believe this site helps inform others.
But I think it plays a larger role in a social gig , again not a bad thing but if my "friends" are unworthy I have little or no need to provide for them.
45 people with that number call them up or e-mail them and have your personal say.
this is not changing the world really , unless you have made it your world.
Some people walk among us in this world with a heart of helping, a spirit of giving, a mind of care for others. To not do that is so un-natural as to cause them to not function to their full capacity.
Even to the point of themselves losing what they deserve. We can tell them 'til we all puke to cut it out, take care of themselves, show them where the brakes on the damn machine are, but they'll still keep pushing because, to them, it's the right thing to do.
(she also said a bunch more important stuff in her remarkable way of keeping our attention in her writing style)- but I'd like to comment on the above, since it brought a wellspring of emotion to me.....
That is the previously hidden part of the picture, the inner drive to help others that some people just can't shake. I have known those people, my mother was one of them. A day off to go get a lump checked likely would have extended her remarkable life. However, there were those people at the innercity help center that needed a computer fixed or the young widow with 3 kids who had to find some free clothes for a job interview, or needed someone to chat with, or needed food, or the database at the center needed a bug fixed. Then there was the guy from Caterpillar that wanted to donate 15 old computers to her mission to wire the disadvantaged, but they had to get out of corporate HQ.... TODAY.
Some people simply do NOT feel right unless they are helping someone. It is not a matter of the size of the mission, it can be just that ONE person who might be left unhelped unless I turn my lips towards them and say "come hither, I care". This kind of person cannot turn it off, nor should they. This is who they are, it does not go away.
Sure, sometimes they have to relieve the pressure, but pretty soon there is that ONE person they can help get through another day. In TWI we all heard "each one win one". TWI corrupted that into a marketing scheme every MLM uses- it multiplies. The real basis for the phrase is much smaller. "If I don't help that person, how will I know what opportunity they missed." It is what gives the giver life and hope. It does not go away, it always eats at their craw when they miss an opportunity to help. There is always the "pay it forward" concept.
Somehow, this sort of person finds a way to get it done, and to breathe another day. It often involves finding others to take a part of the mission. Little bites finally devour the whole cow. Yeah, we are not a huge group here, it sure seems like a small mission, but it is one person's mission, one person's "pay it forward". Its not about changing the world, it's about changing our one tiny part of it.
I "get it" now........ my army-brat-then-army-wife mother would have stood with all her 4'-10 inches, arched her back ramrod straight, and saluted you Paw. Then on tippy toes, her hand would stretch up to your tall and broad shoulder and she'd say, "let's do something about it".
In every Forum or site there are always a core of those who post... the reality is that those who post is only I think about 10% of who frequent the site.
Of those 10% there is I think 1 or 2% that are undesirable I guess would be the word... people who have chosen to be angry and or vocally mean... usually if you met them face to face they would never talk to you in the way that they feel comfortable talking (writing) on a web forum.. there is nothing like the anonymity of the web for bringing out the worst in some people.
No matter what site you go to there is this factor... unfortunately because of the unique nature of the site here Paw has made himself more available than some one would be on other sites on the web.
That to me speaks volumes about who Paw is. About what the mission of this site has been ... and tells me that there have been people who have found great healing here as well as those who unleash their hurt and anger on others on the site and on Paw.
Of course people would carry on if the site was no longer here... and the information as Paw said would be available for those who wandered in here, But for me at least the ability to talk to others it has added an extra layer of comfort and understanding. not because I wouldn't have read through all the information. I am working on that every day.. but because by talking to some of the different posters on here I have found validity in what has been written. I know I am a bit cynical but you run into sites all the time where the reply's and posts are fabricated. Many of the names here are people I remember from TWI.. not that I knew personally but that I knew of or that I saw teach there or that know friends of friends.. you know the old six degree of separation thing.
I don't know what the right answer is.. other than Paw should have release from the burden he is carrying. HE is a wonderful warm man .. Who has proven over and over again that his understanding of God's word and the principles that Christ put forth are the center of his life. That he has made this site the way it is just adds to the whole picture.
Again I add my voice to those already here as a resource to helping in any way I can.
I know I am new here but I too want to help in any way I can...
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pawtucket
Thanks for your comments and such.
Just to be clear, The main site will NOT close. The maintenance on that is fairly simple.
The forums will be available in one form or another indefinitely. I've gotten a lot of ideas. The worst case scenario is that I make the forums read only.
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RumRunner
Good point Groucho - Paw can we multi-host?
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now I see
I have time I can invest, but not enough computer savy, could the computer savyness be contracted out, with the cost offset by ads, affiliate links and banners on GS?
If no one steps up and the site goes archival, perhaps a bulletin board feature could be established and maybe moderated with a 24-48 hour delay by someone other than Paw.
The way the ex-twi yahoo group site operates is they always have a 24 hour moderator delay on all posts, albeit, its much smaller than GS, maybe the forums could be parceled out to different mods for each section.  Although alot of the life would be missing from the forum that way, but all nastiness and inappropriate comments could be filtered out before they go online.
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Bolshevik
The most useful information on "About The Way" forum is in the older threads imo. When was the last time a good nugget of info was posted on the forum that wasn't posted already? The new threads just bury the old ones and make searching for info a PITA. I've had people who've seen greasespot come to me just to help clear things up. This forum's purpose was served years ago. Why waste more energy trying to moderate it? Keep the best threads up front and archive the others.
The "connecting" forums, people are searching for other people, might be the only ones of real value to leave open imo.
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leafytwiglet
Well I think it should stay open but I also think Pawtucket should have a life too.
I am new here so I know I don't have much right to really say much but this is how I feel. yes the information is there in the old threads but For me the thing about GSC that has helped me the most is my interactions with other grease spotters. They have directed me to other threads and they are right there when someone goes off on some bizzarro tangent. To give some balance. The Moderators are un obtrusive and most people on here seem to genuinely care about one another and try to help people who wander in.
I know the site is yours Paw to do with as you please but I wish there was some way that you could allow or direct those of us willing to help out with the site jump in and take some of the burden off your shoulders.
NO pressure here or anything like that ; ).
Also I believe a lot of the current threads are helpful to people too, even if they are rehashing what was said before. I love the forgiveness thread and for me at least I have found a peace with my past and I am still digging into the doctrinal errors and working my way through all that.
I love the Grease spot radio and I have listened to about half of those so far.
Best of all is talking to former wayfers like myself and finding out who I knew is where and finding out some of the things I felt or encountered were not just me. Learning about what people have done.
What ever you decide I know it will be what is right but I hope some how it can be kept open.
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excathedra
i'm not quite sure i understand all this, but i hope to god it would be interactive since i have no one to talk to except here
i don't want to read, i hardly do that anyway ha
but like i said, i don't want you to be hurt anymore paw. i mean that. i'm probably one of the people you wish didn't come here, but i don't know what to say. i just can't jump on the bandwagon. my loyalty to you is love and gratitude beyond words, but not necessarily agreement, and for that i'm sorry
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bowtwi
It's not a matter of agreeing with paw - it's a matter of treating him with the respect we'd appreciate being treated with. Paw has been amazing in his ability to "allow" all of us our own opinions here. Apparently there are posters who have unloaded their crap on him so much that it sours his GS experience, and that's just got to stop.
Paw - I have some ability, time, energy, etc. to contribute in whatever capacity you'd find helpful. I also have a very computer-savvy son at my disposal almost 24/7. I work from home so I am in and out of here many times each day already. I never volunteered to be a moderator, but I'm volunteering right now to do anything I can that would help lighten your load. I've come to know you well enough that if we lived in the same town I'd want to hang out with you. I hate that you're feeling all of this pressure and will gladly do whatever I can to help.
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Mister P-Mosh
It's been years since I tried to go there, but I seem to remember having difficulties there in the past because they didn't tolerate non-Christian standpoints. Pawtucket, despite being Christian himself, has an open mind and lets anyone post here as long as it is done respectfully.
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OperaBuff
Merry Christmas!
Paw, I volunteer to be one of your elves, if you like. I've got time, and I've got experience building and maintaining Web sites. Last year I took an early retirement from the US Department of Defense, where I was a project manager and senior data analyst. Supervised the building and daily management of several Web sites. So I know how it is. It's always something and it's one d*mn#d thing after another, is how it is! I'm not afraid of it, and I'm not easily intimidated by people. It takes guts to wear a tiara, you know.
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Smokey75
We all need a break Brother!
Make it simple and keep it simple!
...advice from a simple man!
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Watered Garden
You know, I've been posting here since what, 2002, and I never thought about what it must take to run this thing. I apologize for being so self-centered.
You do what you need to do. I for one think you have done one helluva job of making it available for people to vent, ask questions, get answers, get healing.
What was it you said? "We will tell the other side of the story, and have some fun doing it."
It isn't fun for you any more, is it?
Life's too short to carry this burden.
Close it down. Relax, have some fun, go someplace warm and sip rum drinks in a hammock for a while. Give it a rest, and then if you feel like you want to start something up again, smaller and simpler, let us know, and take a crack at it.
Love and prayers,
Watered Garden
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WordWolf
Ultimately, you need to concern yourself primarily with yourself.
If you don't take care of yourself, you'll fall down and go splat,
and then will be unable to help anyone at all.
See, most other messageboards don't make any attempt to be so transparent
in their dealings. Twits get a suspension or a ban and that's it.
Anyone doesn't like it, they can leave.
As much as the GSC means to us, has meant to us, if it crashed irretrievably tomorrow,
we'd all survive one way or another.
You have to find a healthier method of managing things-including your own life.
If that requires-and you're the only one who can truly know for sure-
that you close up the shop and throw away the keys, well, so be it.
Those of us who don't care more about your well-being SHOULD.
Is it possible the GSC could be delegated, and only "appeals" to the Admin's
decisions be directed to Paw?
With mods handling day-to-day, and one or more Admins evaluating and making
the difficult decisions?
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WordWolf
If people don't like the way you're managing, you're not legally accountable to them.
This is why admins are often likened to ogres.
They have to lay down the law and that's it.
Obviously, it's a sign you're having an effect on people.
Otherwise, they wouldn't even think of you or your site.
As for me, I'm curious about the other site. Mainly, I want to know what they said
about me. If they're not trash-talking me, I may not be getting enough done!
No matter what decisions are made, voices will be raised in opposition as loudly
as possible. That's pretty much a constant in human experience.
I agree.
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pond
Why not try it?
just shut it down for awhile, take a break , no one will suffer for it really and pawtucket may find life will be better for it .
I do not see the problem.
This place is a social club wherefriends meet up for the most part you can pick and chose leave the chat room or what ever I certain other avenues are availabel for folks to talk on the internet.
If you want later in a while open in back up or not. Take a vacation. why not? what is the issue really?
No one is in twi screaming for information about "what happened?, anymore. the information here can be just as good as read only. If people feel that strongly about giving their thoughts about twi for another decade they can open their own web site and a link can be provided from here.
I really do fail to see the issue, if anything is messin with my life it has to go now Im getting way to old for play a fool about anything anymore.
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Shellon
Some people walk among us in this world with a heart of helping, a spirit of giving, a mind of care for others. To not do that is so un-natural as to cause them to not function to their full capacity.
Even to the point of themselves losing what they deserve. We can tell them 'til we all puke to cut it out, take care of themselves, show them where the brakes on the damn machine are, but they'll still keep pushing because, to them, it's the right thing to do.
These are not bad qualities in their lives, until it causes problems in areas of health, welfare and daily happiness.
Imagine, if you can, a typical day of running such a site as this.
You have a full time job, outside your home, it's a fine job and you like it; in fact you go there to rest and get away from your other jobs, such as a site of ex cult people.
Of course you have email at your full time 'normal' job where letters of "hey you a##hole, why didn't you let me post that I was angry that bubba breathed my air'. This is all well and good, maybe even a little funny. At first.
Eventually those little silly emails and PM's grow to be things like threats to your life and those you love. You don't want to read them, know you shouldn't read them, but somehow have to read them and they drain you to the point of nothing left. If you don't respond to them, you get more, just to make sure you heard the first time. If you do respond, you are validating them and that invites more.
Never mind that you've asked that they please stop.
You have to deal with putting out little fires all day, then the huge ones 'cuz maybe you took a lunch break or attended a meeting your boss requires of you. Your heart is clearly in the right place, you know you're doing it for the betterment of the site and those that do enjoy it and not take advantage. But it's all consuming.
You get home from your normal job and never get any transition time from office/home, can't really fix a meal much less eat it quietly 'cuz the phone is ringing. It's people who've either managed to get your number or some fool you trusted gave it to them, or worse; you trusted them and they made different decisions with it.
Kick back with a movie in your living room? Nah, that aint happening, either. Someone is ....ed off at someone else and never mind that you've suggested they deal with so and such and do this or that. They insist that you do and won't relent til you do something, anything. But, don't forget the funnest part: whatever you do will be wrong, always.
A private life? HA! That aint happening, my friend. Suppose you fall in love and wish to spend time alone with your new love? The phone rings, the hate mail continues, the fights rage on. Would it help if you stated your new love and ask for some time alone? That is coupled with the reality that you shouldn't HAVE to ask.
So the relationship doesn't last, it dies of sheer neglect, abandoned like others because your life requires too much time at the site you manage. But you don't really have time to even deal with that loss, with the 3 am phone calls from posters, or the 8 am emails kicking your butt cuz you didn't take their 3 am phone call. Try to have coffee with your spouse/partner, try to go on a date.
All of this reminds me of being a mama and those of us that do that know about trying to find time alone to take a shower and we know that as soon as we sit down to a movie, the kid is gonna puke supper all over, have a fever of 105 and the rest of the next four days is going to be anything but what we need to be doing, cuz that's what we do.
Pawtucket maybe should just walk away, maybe he should tell us all to shove off and he'd never look back. Personally, I say do it. But I know the man and know it's not that easy for him. Which is exactly why he presented here and asked for input.
He's a quiet man, not one to ask of others. He should, yes, but he doesn't. If he and I are having a lovely conversation, he's there with me, but he's also knowing he needs to be emailing back to someone about why their best friend from TWI suddenly is mad at them or why they can't log into the site or taking on some new threat to his body part.
He's a kind man. This is another reason he losses out, which is so wrong. If you or I need something, he'll find a way to get it for us. It doesn't matter that he needs things too, and doesn't ask.
He's a humble man. He'd never EVER ask that anyone know he funds this place of his own bank account, with the occasional assist from others. He used to fully enjoy doing so, truly enjoy it. And probably still would if it were appreciated and taken care of by those to whom he provides it.
He's a proud man. Why would he tell anyone that the place is consuming him, he made a promise to tell the other side of the story and have some fun doing it and he'll do it, come hell or high water or loss to his own life.
As someone who loves him as I do, the most painful part is the loss to his funny bone. I regret that most never get to see that side of Pawtucket. But how could he feel funny, feel like sharing the funny, how might he be creative; there's nothing left.
Yup, he could turn off his phone, indeed he could shut off his computers, of course he could. But that's easier to say than do; no matter how it might be for us. I pulled myself away from the emotions of Greasespot a long time ago and even as just one of the simple consumers, it was tough. If he does turn off his phone or computers, the reality is that when he gets back to them, it's going to be way worse than it might have been if he'd just dealt with them then. How many of you like hearing on your voice mail 14 times from the same person, who's started being threatening and ugly by the 4th time? To just shut his mind off of that is not an easy task.
For those of you who have grown sick of this place, been hurt by something said or done here, wandered over to the other places of those that did the same, I ask you a question. Do you ever find yourself still thinking of Greasespot, being drawn back here, having to take just one more look, maybe things are better today? Then imagine that a hundred fold or more, thinking you are somehow responsible for it's dynamics and if you try one more thing or attempt once more with the one mad at you, it'll work this time.
Now imagine being the administrator her, the boss if you will. You have to make sure things are smooth running and the "business" is bustling along as it should. Never mind that you have that other normal job that pays the rent; thankfully it's only 8-9 hours a day.
Paw has amazing moderators here that do an outstanding job and he's not set up the moderating team willynilly. They are strong people, with as differing personalities as you or me or us. However, it doesn't matter anyway, since people don't like how he does that either. I, for one, am thrilled the mods are not named. That would only add to the crap pawtucket would have to deal with. At least this way, they can deal with their own crap. I defy anyone who doesn't like the way the mod gig is operated to BE a moderator, then let others' know it's you and have your phone ring at 2 am to fix something, tell paw, extend a special favor, etc.
This is a very unique thing Pawtucket has built here, I wish more realized that. One man can not accept the responsibility of a site for ex-cult people if simply for that reason alone. We're not a quiet bunch, we're not a simple bunch, we're mostly all type A personalities who demand, insist and complain.
And he gets that, he wants to help, he desires to be part of the solution, to be part of the place to freely express that. But every day with every other personality, every other life style, every other issue and problem, who wouldn't get tired?
It's cost him time where he might have explored other hobbies, privately. It's cost him love where he might have move into areas of new experiences, it's cost him friendships, which breaks my heart the most. It's cost him so much.
We might love paw and express and sing his praises when he says "stop!!", but until he does that, do we even notice the man? We feel a certain amount of remorse and guilt when we realize we've taken advantage or something provided us freely. We accept responsibility when it's suggested that things might not continue on as before.
What I wish had happened all along were more of the 'hey, thanks paw' or the "great site, how can I help paw?". Not just when things are expressed. I wish those that want to be butts hadn't somehow believed they had any right to do so. Things have been said or done to paw in regards to this place that those doing the saying and doing would NEVER allow in their own lives.
Some have likened this to twi in that in order to leave they have to do so with bells and whistles and attention; make sure others are aware that it's controlling, there is a man of god and his cohorts and stay away. Others leave quietly in that dark night, sad but never expressing what they feel.
It's not twi, it's not a cult, it's not a church, it's not a sounding board for our lifes blood, sweat and tears to the point of drowning the purpose of the original point. It was designed to be a place to expose where needed, express when necessary, discuss to the end of healing and understanding. But the best part was the 'and have fun doing it'. How many even knew about that part?
I'd be curious to know how many even notice paw or the mods unless/until they do something unpopular, unliked. You ever sent a note 'Just because" or dropped a thank you in the box of appreciation? Many did, of course, and they're so very noted and thanked back, and I think paw knows he can count on them to do so again, unsolicited.
I love the man and I want to build a life with him, period, so for me to see Greasespot be a place of good for him is purely selfish, but we deserve that. I don't want to see it close it's doors either, it's of great value and need. It's because of his heart of giving and his tenderness in helping, his humor, his fight and drive that I do love him. I wouldn't be interested in a man who could easily turn his back on his fellow man or woman in their time of need. I also hate to see the man's pain at his fellow man or woman not understanding that he has a life of his own and it's as important as theirs.
Look at your own lives and wander back into your own memory or things that happened that were at least partly caused by other things being forced into the forefront, leaving behind the really important things like communication with someone you love, time alone, new memories, building a family.
You ever miss a kids school concert 'cuz something blew up at work? Ever miss a deadline at work that cost you dearly 'cuz you had a sick kid at home? Do that too many times and you're gonna lose one of them.
Regret sucks the biggest.
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pond
I think this site gives a trick appearance.
In this poll 45 people total have answered.
that is not alot of folks . all together.
maybe more will answer being the holidays some may not be online, but really the core of who is who at this site has voted I think.
those who feel the pull as Shellon describes have probably voted as it has been a few days and Pawtucket as the author always gets a look from the masses due to his fame.
it seems to me 45 people can get together on another chat room and do what they need to do to satisfy their need to talk.
As far as folks dealing with emotional attachments to the internet and web sites, well ... that is an increasing problem in the world today .
Choices in life esp. as we grow more comfortable as we age are often difficult.
doesnt make them bad or good just choices.
most of the who is who have one anothers e-mail etc. so again emotional attachments to what you do on your down time aside.. I still fail to see the issue.
what are you afraid will happen if you stop the web site?
As far as I know we can block any unwanted mail or phone calls from our life.
I believe this site helps inform others.
But I think it plays a larger role in a social gig , again not a bad thing but if my "friends" are unworthy I have little or no need to provide for them.
45 people with that number call them up or e-mail them and have your personal say.
this is not changing the world really , unless you have made it your world.
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HAPe4me
Shellon said alot right here:
(she also said a bunch more important stuff in her remarkable way of keeping our attention in her writing style)- but I'd like to comment on the above, since it brought a wellspring of emotion to me.....
That is the previously hidden part of the picture, the inner drive to help others that some people just can't shake. I have known those people, my mother was one of them. A day off to go get a lump checked likely would have extended her remarkable life. However, there were those people at the innercity help center that needed a computer fixed or the young widow with 3 kids who had to find some free clothes for a job interview, or needed someone to chat with, or needed food, or the database at the center needed a bug fixed. Then there was the guy from Caterpillar that wanted to donate 15 old computers to her mission to wire the disadvantaged, but they had to get out of corporate HQ.... TODAY.
Some people simply do NOT feel right unless they are helping someone. It is not a matter of the size of the mission, it can be just that ONE person who might be left unhelped unless I turn my lips towards them and say "come hither, I care". This kind of person cannot turn it off, nor should they. This is who they are, it does not go away.
Sure, sometimes they have to relieve the pressure, but pretty soon there is that ONE person they can help get through another day. In TWI we all heard "each one win one". TWI corrupted that into a marketing scheme every MLM uses- it multiplies. The real basis for the phrase is much smaller. "If I don't help that person, how will I know what opportunity they missed." It is what gives the giver life and hope. It does not go away, it always eats at their craw when they miss an opportunity to help. There is always the "pay it forward" concept.
Somehow, this sort of person finds a way to get it done, and to breathe another day. It often involves finding others to take a part of the mission. Little bites finally devour the whole cow. Yeah, we are not a huge group here, it sure seems like a small mission, but it is one person's mission, one person's "pay it forward". Its not about changing the world, it's about changing our one tiny part of it.
I "get it" now........ my army-brat-then-army-wife mother would have stood with all her 4'-10 inches, arched her back ramrod straight, and saluted you Paw. Then on tippy toes, her hand would stretch up to your tall and broad shoulder and she'd say, "let's do something about it".
~HAP
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leafytwiglet
In every Forum or site there are always a core of those who post... the reality is that those who post is only I think about 10% of who frequent the site.
Of those 10% there is I think 1 or 2% that are undesirable I guess would be the word... people who have chosen to be angry and or vocally mean... usually if you met them face to face they would never talk to you in the way that they feel comfortable talking (writing) on a web forum.. there is nothing like the anonymity of the web for bringing out the worst in some people.
No matter what site you go to there is this factor... unfortunately because of the unique nature of the site here Paw has made himself more available than some one would be on other sites on the web.
That to me speaks volumes about who Paw is. About what the mission of this site has been ... and tells me that there have been people who have found great healing here as well as those who unleash their hurt and anger on others on the site and on Paw.
Of course people would carry on if the site was no longer here... and the information as Paw said would be available for those who wandered in here, But for me at least the ability to talk to others it has added an extra layer of comfort and understanding. not because I wouldn't have read through all the information. I am working on that every day.. but because by talking to some of the different posters on here I have found validity in what has been written. I know I am a bit cynical but you run into sites all the time where the reply's and posts are fabricated. Many of the names here are people I remember from TWI.. not that I knew personally but that I knew of or that I saw teach there or that know friends of friends.. you know the old six degree of separation thing.
I don't know what the right answer is.. other than Paw should have release from the burden he is carrying. HE is a wonderful warm man .. Who has proven over and over again that his understanding of God's word and the principles that Christ put forth are the center of his life. That he has made this site the way it is just adds to the whole picture.
Again I add my voice to those already here as a resource to helping in any way I can.
I know I am new here but I too want to help in any way I can...
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excathedra
paw and shellon, you deserve your life and your time together. go for it.
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Ham
I'll second that..
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Ham
*so the matter is on the floor for discussion*
*no discussion?*
*very well.. all in favor, say aye..*
Paw.. if you invite me to the wedding I'll behave myself..
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leafytwiglet
LOL I thought that is what I read but I was afraid to make an asumption.
Congrats!!!!
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Ham
Yeah.. and if I've made a few assumptions.. what the mods must do, let them do it quickly..
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HAPe4me
don't get carried away.... they need to get in the same city first. any city will do.
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