Hope thank you for bringing this up. If I had a dollar for every stupid thing I pulled out of my butt just to have an answer...
There is no pat answer to everything. And when people say something now that I don't agree with, I just say, "well, that's one theory, but I've heard others.."
and this pertains to everybody, not just Way people.
In fact, this reminds me of a super sweet guy I met several years ago, who wanted to start his own ministry with a few freinds of his to answer the tough questions people had about God.
His intentions were good, but the problem was he didn't know anymore than anybody else.
Yes, being the answer man can be very dangerous indeed.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
Please refresh my memory but, didn't VPW teach in PFAL that if you don't know something, it's much better to say "I don't know", than say something false or something you "think" you might know, without really knowing?
I don't remember where I heard it, but I know I heard that teaching someplace from TWI-1.
Okay well oldies' I've heard a lot of people say that "VPW himself said....fill in the blank." The thing is that shouldn't be your measuring stick of authority in the first place, and besides that, he taught lots of stuff that he should have heeded his own advice on.
And I'm not just picking on VPW. I mean this for anyone who is out there doing the preacher rap, wether or not they are well known.
Spare me the rap, show me the act.
PS I will come back to edit this and say that no person should be your gospel preacher. I get just as po'd watching certain t.v preachers and such.
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on January 17, 2003 at 14:18.]
Oldies, were you in twi 2? I believe I started out by saying something that Loy Boy said (I think in the wap class).
Yes Mr. Weirwille said that in piffle. He also said, tell me what you think about Jesus and I'll tell you how far you'll go spiritually. Loy screamed that the way was NOT NOT NOT a christian organization that if you prayed to Jesus you were praying to a devil spirit.
Countless things that were taught in twi1 were contradicted in twi2.
This is head scratching material. I heard that during the first TWI fellowship LCM attended, the teacher asked a trick question and pointed at LCM, who, caught totally off guard said 'I don't know.', at which point the teacher leaped into the air and said "You're RIGHT! If the word doesn't tell you, you don't KNOW!" Mum to mud to mad to dad, the prince was a brick, the brick was an egg, the egg was a bird! What a difference a few short MOGs make.
I have been reading this thread trying to learn something because this is THE MAJOR issue with some one I love dearly and me.
I do not have meaningful conversations with her anymore because she uses this
"I do not know". thing as a true cop out for responsibility and accountability .
It is called denial.
I do not think it is alright for them (these are family members) to say "I do not know", I am not sure"
In the sense of the bible ok then that is like admiting you do not have the table of elements memorized.
But people play it like they know what they know till they get to a part that shows them different and then it is all about "not knowing.
that is a bible game people play.
I am talking about folks who can see the reality and just deny it.
for example.
"Im sick"
"did you go to the doctors?"
"I do not know I am not sure?"
"oh so you didnt go then?"
yes I went to the doctor.
Well did you get medicine?
I do not know I am not sure
What did he say?
I do not know I am not sure
Now at this point I assume I am not privy to this information and drop the conversation.....
then I hear.
" I am sick"
and this has been going on all my life with these relationships.
or like this...
"I bought a red car."
"oh how great!"
Is it a bright red or more like a pink color?"
I do not know I am not sure".
You can laugh but that is exactly how it is with certain family members and me.
I do not enjoy talking to them anymore.
It is a passive mind game .
Hopeful.
If I do not know a fact, true enough I do not know: yet if I want a relationship with someone I exspect a give and take of information to some degree even if it is wrong or not exactly correct.
this thread is trippin me, I wish some more poster would speak on this because that one little phrase has nearly destroyed some important relationships.
They think I am pushy and bossy and a know it all.
NO I do not but I think this excuse of not knowing when they dam well do know and if ....ed off can remember in vivid detail exactly what the story is.
I think if someone wanted a relationshipwith me, they would share with me and not truly hurt me by playing this game .
I think it is about being accountable for what we think or know in twi alot of people said "I do not know". WHEN THEY KNEW someone had a serious problem .
They denied it and covered it up to not get involved to save face to and this is my favorite
"Not ruin a mans ministry".
I also have trust issues because of the way, I am so honest( probably to a fault , and have been less than diplomatic at times and hurt others.)
But to me this
"I do not know" statement has caused great harm as well. In a sense it is lying in fact to me it is lying.
help.
This is about believing something yet saying you do not when the right or wrong person asks you about it.
If I believe a verse means this yet if asked by someone what it means to me and say "I do not know".
for whatever reason!!!!!
It is not being honest with yourself or the other person and a sorry relationship.
I want to think relationships are formed by give and take not so much right and wrong and to cop out and play it safe or deny how you really believe is damaging as well.
If I lose a friend because we both do not agree on something I do not think it was a relationship that means much to me.
But to have a relationship with no integrity or genuine thoughts is stale and not worth much to me anyway.
[This message was edited by mj412 on January 25, 2003 at 9:10.]
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RottieGrrrl
Hope thank you for bringing this up. If I had a dollar for every stupid thing I pulled out of my butt just to have an answer...
There is no pat answer to everything. And when people say something now that I don't agree with, I just say, "well, that's one theory, but I've heard others.."
and this pertains to everybody, not just Way people.
In fact, this reminds me of a super sweet guy I met several years ago, who wanted to start his own ministry with a few freinds of his to answer the tough questions people had about God.
His intentions were good, but the problem was he didn't know anymore than anybody else.
Yes, being the answer man can be very dangerous indeed.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
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oldiesman
Please refresh my memory but, didn't VPW teach in PFAL that if you don't know something, it's much better to say "I don't know", than say something false or something you "think" you might know, without really knowing?
I don't remember where I heard it, but I know I heard that teaching someplace from TWI-1.
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Raf
Oldies,
That might have been a class coordinator's instruction. My memory is foggy on this point.
It's good advice, either way.
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RottieGrrrl
Okay well oldies' I've heard a lot of people say that "VPW himself said....fill in the blank." The thing is that shouldn't be your measuring stick of authority in the first place, and besides that, he taught lots of stuff that he should have heeded his own advice on.
And I'm not just picking on VPW. I mean this for anyone who is out there doing the preacher rap, wether or not they are well known.
Spare me the rap, show me the act.
PS I will come back to edit this and say that no person should be your gospel preacher. I get just as po'd watching certain t.v preachers and such.
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on January 17, 2003 at 14:18.]
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Hopefull
Oldies, were you in twi 2? I believe I started out by saying something that Loy Boy said (I think in the wap class).
Yes Mr. Weirwille said that in piffle. He also said, tell me what you think about Jesus and I'll tell you how far you'll go spiritually. Loy screamed that the way was NOT NOT NOT a christian organization that if you prayed to Jesus you were praying to a devil spirit.
Countless things that were taught in twi1 were contradicted in twi2.
It was NOT OK to say I don't know in twi2.
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johniam
This is head scratching material. I heard that during the first TWI fellowship LCM attended, the teacher asked a trick question and pointed at LCM, who, caught totally off guard said 'I don't know.', at which point the teacher leaped into the air and said "You're RIGHT! If the word doesn't tell you, you don't KNOW!" Mum to mud to mad to dad, the prince was a brick, the brick was an egg, the egg was a bird! What a difference a few short MOGs make.
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WordWolf
Yes, Oldies,
it was right in one of the early sessions.
We were going over the parable of the sower.
"What's the good seed?"
And Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup, and a 3rd
person (Henry B? I forget) gave their opinions,
having only heard that the sower sowed good
seed.
"Then I jump up & down & pull my hair out and
say 'no, no, a thousand times no!' "
(vpw never lacked for drama).
...He says "if you don't know, say you don't
know! It's not wrong to say you don't know,
it's wrong to indicate that you DO know when
you do not know-when you guess.
That's right.
It's no sin to be stupid.
It's a sin to stay stupid when the greatness
of God's Word is available in Power for
Abundant Living."
------------------------------------------
Really full of himself, wasn't he?
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RottieGrrrl
wordwolf LOL! I can't believe you remembered that!
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firebee
Is it ok, and I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$
I don't know...............never did
me.............most of the time
Rottie I do have lots of respect for you, please forgive my indulgence
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WordWolf
If people who sit thru the Rocky Horror Picture
Show week after week can recite all the words,
and some people can recite all of "Alice's
Restaurant" from memory, then after the first
7 times sitting thru piffle, I'm bound to
remember something.
Besides, that thing about saying "I don't know"
rather than guessing was a major point to me.
(I still use it.)
Actually, I'm surprised I don't remember for
sure who spoke after Johnny jumped up. Also,
I forget which one said the seed meant what.
I think Maggie was the 3rd, & she thought the
good seed was the good works of man. I think
one said it was the church, one said it was
the Word. (I think.)
I know it wasn't Snowball Peter or Herman
B, because they were only mentioned once each.
(Henry B was a different story.)
Actually, it was only when I tried reciting the
whole section from memory that I remembered just
how pompous the followup to "it's no sin to
be stupid" was. I would have stopped at his
famous "that's right", & leave out the 'stupid'
comment.
Of course, some people still think of it as the
greatness of God's Word in pfal.
Not me, but some people.
That's right.
Bless your little heart.
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mj412
I have been reading this thread trying to learn something because this is THE MAJOR issue with some one I love dearly and me.
I do not have meaningful conversations with her anymore because she uses this
"I do not know". thing as a true cop out for responsibility and accountability .
It is called denial.
I do not think it is alright for them (these are family members) to say "I do not know", I am not sure"
In the sense of the bible ok then that is like admiting you do not have the table of elements memorized.
But people play it like they know what they know till they get to a part that shows them different and then it is all about "not knowing.
that is a bible game people play.
I am talking about folks who can see the reality and just deny it.
for example.
"Im sick"
"did you go to the doctors?"
"I do not know I am not sure?"
"oh so you didnt go then?"
yes I went to the doctor.
Well did you get medicine?
I do not know I am not sure
What did he say?
I do not know I am not sure
Now at this point I assume I am not privy to this information and drop the conversation.....
then I hear.
" I am sick"
and this has been going on all my life with these relationships.
or like this...
"I bought a red car."
"oh how great!"
Is it a bright red or more like a pink color?"
I do not know I am not sure".
You can laugh but that is exactly how it is with certain family members and me.
I do not enjoy talking to them anymore.
It is a passive mind game .
Hopeful.
If I do not know a fact, true enough I do not know: yet if I want a relationship with someone I exspect a give and take of information to some degree even if it is wrong or not exactly correct.
this thread is trippin me, I wish some more poster would speak on this because that one little phrase has nearly destroyed some important relationships.
They think I am pushy and bossy and a know it all.
NO I do not but I think this excuse of not knowing when they dam well do know and if ....ed off can remember in vivid detail exactly what the story is.
I think if someone wanted a relationshipwith me, they would share with me and not truly hurt me by playing this game .
I think it is about being accountable for what we think or know in twi alot of people said "I do not know". WHEN THEY KNEW someone had a serious problem .
They denied it and covered it up to not get involved to save face to and this is my favorite
"Not ruin a mans ministry".
I also have trust issues because of the way, I am so honest( probably to a fault , and have been less than diplomatic at times and hurt others.)
But to me this
"I do not know" statement has caused great harm as well. In a sense it is lying in fact to me it is lying.
help.
This is about believing something yet saying you do not when the right or wrong person asks you about it.
If I believe a verse means this yet if asked by someone what it means to me and say "I do not know".
for whatever reason!!!!!
It is not being honest with yourself or the other person and a sorry relationship.
I want to think relationships are formed by give and take not so much right and wrong and to cop out and play it safe or deny how you really believe is damaging as well.
If I lose a friend because we both do not agree on something I do not think it was a relationship that means much to me.
But to have a relationship with no integrity or genuine thoughts is stale and not worth much to me anyway.
[This message was edited by mj412 on January 25, 2003 at 9:10.]
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WordWolf
Well, that's a whole other story entirely.
If someone's refusing to answer clear questions
they know the answers to because they can't be
bothered, then they're just asking for a
pimp-slap. I can't communicate with someone
like that.
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