hello there again

[doriangreen]

soooo I posted here awhile ago about finding out my roommate is in the way (although it was under a different username)

and you know we talked, and it didn't go that well. but just recently my friend (and roommate) went on this retreat with her twig and when she came back she said she needed to talk to me. She told me that God has been telling her that I should go to her fellowship.

I told her I would think and pray about it. And I decided that I would go to one, just to show her that i am open to knowing what she believes....looking at both sides persay.

so do you think that is a good idea? I have a guy friend who said he would go with me too, so i won't be alone.

I don't know....your input would be helpful :) thanks

[Tzaia]

soooo I posted here awhile ago about finding out my roommate is in the way (although it was under a different username)

and you know we talked, and it didn't go that well. but just recently my friend (and roommate) went on this retreat with her twig and when she came back she said she needed to talk to me. She told me that God has been telling her that I should go to her fellowship.

One thing I always found amazing is the idea that God somehow has to talk to someone else about what is good for you without ever bothering to tell you the same thing.

I told her I would think and pray about it. And I decided that I would go to one, just to show her that i am open to knowing what she believes....looking at both sides persay.

so do you think that is a good idea? I have a guy friend who said he would go with me too, so i won't be alone.

I don't know....your input would be helpful :) thanks

Just so you know in advance - you will never, ever meet a nicer group of people. They are so loving and so wanting to be your friend that they will fawn and flatter you - making you feel very special indeed. In fact, you will instantly acquire a whole group of new best friends. You will find out that the only thing that could possibly make your new friendships tighter is if you agree to take this special class. If you don't agree immediately, then you will start getting all kinds of calls and notes telling you how special you are and how blessed you will be if you'll only take this class.

The other thing is that you won't even begin to get an idea of what she believes from attending a twig. Most of it will be unintelligible because twigs don't operate along the lines of a "seeker" service where the message is simple and clear. In fact, the only way you can decipher what is taught in a twig is by taking whatever the class is called. If you do ask a question, you will be told that the class will answer all of your questions.

If you do go and decide not to continue, you will probably lose your friend and roommate because you will show yourself as true devil material.

I think it would be interesting to see how long you can string her along without her getting totally exasperated with you, but then again I've been known to enjoy messing with people's heads.

[doriangreen]

i figured as much. she was telling me she wanted me to come to see how the people at her fellowship are good people and I told her i didn't doubt that they weren't. but i also told her if I went i would like her to come to my church with me and she replied "well since I know they won't be speaking truth, i don't know what I would benefit from it". golly, she is so hard to talk to. it is so stressful!

and when i told her i would go to see her side of things she said "there is no side, this is the truth and the only way" blah!!

but i wasn't saying anything mean towards her , but just listened and asked questions. it is really hard to talk to her anyway with anything regarding God, because she always has to give her two cents and "there is no debating the word" so I can never have a stress free conversation with her about God.

also.....she seems to bringing guys over to sleep over a lot....i never really see them but i can hear them. and I guess the way is ok with that? sleeping with guys? because you would think with all the studying she does she would be convicted about that sort of thing but she doesn't seem to think it is wrong at all.

i was thinking i might talk to her about it, because I am not really cool with it.

[geisha779]

One thing I always found amazing is the idea that God somehow has to talk to someone else about what is good for you without ever bothering to tell you the same thing.

Wow --that made me laugh out loud!! Common sense prevails. . . Astute and to the heart of the matter. . .

Thanks!

[Watered Garden]

As far as sex, there have been various and sundry "doctrines" about that, one being that "we are no longer under the law" and one being that if you are a deeply spiritually mature individual (whatever the heck THAT means) you can handle it.

The Bible says "flee fornication" and that includes what she is doing.

It would be interesting, if indeed you attend one of their fellowships, to ask the fellowship leader outright what their teaching is about premarital sex, adultery, promiscuity, etc. and watch your roomie's face to see her reaction.

Personally, I think you are going to need to find another roommate or another place you can live before too long.

It sounds to me like you are somewhat grounded in Christianity yourself. Honestly, I would guard my heart and mind like a rottweiler on steroids with those people. They are not what they seem!

WG

[waysider]

If she's not willing to meet you half way by attending your church, what would be the point?

She has already shown you how deeply indoctrinated she is.

If she is not willing to consider other viewpoints, how will she ever change?

The Way is a multi-level-marketing organization.

Participants move up through the ranks by meeting quotas.

They are famous for "love bombing" potential leads, and, yes, have even been known to use sexual favors to entice prospects. You can find plenty of testimony to that here on GSC.

They will rationalize illicit sex by saying we live in an age of grace and that "it's o.k. if you are spiritually mature enough to handle it." They will also rationalize deceptive recruitment techniques by saying "the end justifies the means".

Be very, very careful and don't ever let them make you feel guilty or that you owe them (or God) anything.

They are skilled at playing the guilt card.

edited: If you want to see an example of their stubbornness, ask about the Trinity or abortion. But, be advised they have fielded those questions before and may insist you give your opinion first.

Edited December 9, 2008 by waysider

[Ham]

She told me that God has been telling her that I should go to her fellowship.

I dunno.. my reply would be something like "hearing voices now, are we?"

the real "scary" part of it- she probably really BELIEVES, or convinced herself that she's heard this gem of wisdom from the almighty..

looks like the arrogant poison lives on.

I wouldn't go.. I think it's like visiting a pit of vipers.. sure they are nice. But they've been taught to sell.. no real "biblical" depth to them, no documentable counselling skills.. they will subtly or not so subtly lavish one with love, praise and affection as "rewards" to slowly come around to their way of thinking.. it's psychology 101..

then comes the conditioning through punishment..

[cman]

i have suspicions

other then what's been stated

i remember when you posted before

and you are still involved with this girl?

[Tzaia]

i figured as much. she was telling me she wanted me to come to see how the people at her fellowship are good people and I told her i didn't doubt that they weren't. but i also told her if I went i would like her to come to my church with me and she replied "well since I know they won't be speaking truth, i don't know what I would benefit from it". golly, she is so hard to talk to. it is so stressful!

Gosh I wish I had been better at messing with heads back in the day.

Here's what you can say for starters:

"Please explain to me what lies you believe I'm being told at my church and how simply opening up to someone else's ideas about God lacks benefit? Isn't that what you are asking me to do? Perhaps after you attend my church you can tell me what all is wrong with it, but to refuse to reciprocate seems a bit narrow in your thinking, don't you agree?"

"I feel very stressed when I talk to you about these things. I'm sorry, but in my mind that sends up red flags, and you aren't helping to alleviate that stress by basically telling me my beliefs are a lie."

and when i told her i would go to see her side of things she said "there is no side, this is the truth and the only way" blah!!

Not leaving much opportunity to openly discuss. My Bible says we see through a dark glass, which indicates that "truth" is rather elusive. I guess my question is how she can be so sure her way is, in fact, the only way? Has she considered any alternatives?

but i wasn't saying anything mean towards her , but just listened and asked questions. it is really hard to talk to her anyway with anything regarding God, because she always has to give her two cents and "there is no debating the word" so I can never have a stress free conversation with her about God.

Actually debating what one believes about the word is healthy. The word itself is not under fire; it is one's interpretation that is being examined.

It appears she's unwilling to go beyond what she believes she knows as truth, but has no problem insisting that you do so.

also.....she seems to bringing guys over to sleep over a lot....i never really see them but i can hear them. and I guess the way is ok with that? sleeping with guys? because you would think with all the studying she does she would be convicted about that sort of thing but she doesn't seem to think it is wrong at all.

i was thinking i might talk to her about it, because I am not really cool with it.

Wow. Some things haven't changed. I'd ask to see the chapter and verse(s) that say fornication is allowed under the present administration, and then show her these verses...

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

1 Corinthians 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

2 Corinthians 12:21 - 13:1 nd lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

...asking her how she can possibly know the "truth" of the word and ignore so many clear verses about sex outside of marriage.

[Ham]

The last time I brought these kind of scriptures up to a supposed standing, godly believer in the seventies..

I was met with "GROWWWWERRRR, HISSSSSSSSSS.. DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH MY RIGHTEOUSNESS.."

all I'll say is.. be prepared..

[Ham]

actually, the sex practiced in the light of day.. I think its' a throwback to their Simian roots. The arrogance and supposed position of power allowed the top male and female to fornicate right in the light of day.. for everybody else, it was forbidden.

It was something I saw on a National Geographic special, years ago..

[doriangreen]

well my reasons for going to her fellowship are not because I am looking for answers because I am not. I am strong in what I believe and know is right. I am going because 1) if I go she cannot say when I ask her to come to my church that I have never been to hers 2) so she can't say that I don't understand her fellowship or have never met them or know what they believe.

unfortunatley, our lease still has 6 months left so i cannot move out even if i wanted to. but I do think God has placed me here for a reason, and I just have to keep loving her and praying for her.

cults are annoying.

[cheranne]

Don't do it. Get a new roomate! Unless you want to be biblically challanged(to put it

politically correct)like TWI(not to mention shallow puppetts in sheeps clothing) :blink:

[Tzaia]

The last time I brought these kind of scriptures up to a supposed standing, godly believer in the seventies..

I was met with "GROWWWWERRRR, HISSSSSSSSSS.. DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH MY RIGHTEOUSNESS.."

all I'll say is.. be prepared..

Yeah, actually I use that sort of stuff to lead in to what I really want to do, which is shut them up.

To someone who would answer clear scripture with that kind of logic, I would probably (and have) say (said) something along the line of it being a weak argument and since you (apparently) can't do any better than that, then let's agree to disagree.

[Mark Clarke]

Tzaia,

Don't forget, they rationalize all the sex by saying that "fornication" in all those verses you quoted means "spiritual fornication" which is idolatry. According to them, as long as they aren't worshiping other gods, they can do anything 'cause they're above the law. They have all the answers ready.

[waysider]

Tzaia,

Don't forget, they rationalize all the sex by saying that "fornication" in all those verses you quoted means "spiritual fornication" which is idolatry. According to them, as long as they aren't worshiping other gods, they can do anything 'cause they're above the law. They have all the answers ready.

Oh, yeah.

I forgot about that.

Well, maybe someday I'll be "spiritually mature" enough to grasp the true meaning.

Maybe I'm just not speaking in tongues enough.

[doriangreen]

Oh, yeah.

I forgot about that.

Well, maybe someday I'll be "spiritually mature" enough to grasp the true meaning.

Maybe I'm just not speaking in tongues enough.

hahaha that made me laugh a lot

[excathedra]

yes cults can be annoying

[JeffSjo]

Dear doriangreen,

It looks to me like you already know enough to stear clear of the potential traps that are present in this TWI fellowship. Especially in regards to percieving that your roomate needs help with this sleeping around issue. Just like the things that you've already read here, don't be decieved!!!!!

This sleeping around issue that you see with your roomate is just the tip of one foul, stinky iceberg that is The Way International. No matter how strong you feel about what you believe, I'd councel caution, biblically this casual sex thing is something to run away from. I know by experience that once the hook is set it can be painful to be removed.

Personally, I bet that many people here would be willing to go with you to make sure that it's o.k., but only you will be the one to decide for yourself.

Take Care,

JEFF

[Tzaia]

Tzaia,

Don't forget, they rationalize all the sex by saying that "fornication" in all those verses you quoted means "spiritual fornication" which is idolatry. According to them, as long as they aren't worshiping other gods, they can do anything 'cause they're above the law. They have all the answers ready.

Oh, I get it, the grace thing.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

unfortunatley, our lease still has 6 months left so i cannot move out even if i wanted to....

Aha...the bottom line! I'm afraid that you will have to put up with the cult thing for awhile longer.

...and then...good ridence.

[Mark Clarke]

Oh, I get it, the grace thing.

That, and the twisting of Scriptures to fit their rationalization. They somehow couldn't see that several passages referred to both fornication AND idolatry, so there must be more to fornication than just their "figurative" interpretation. Maybe idolatry is compared with literal fornication because literal fornication is bad? Naaaahh!

[Nottawayfer]

unfortunatley, our lease still has 6 months left so i cannot move out even if i wanted to. but I do think God has placed me here for a reason, and I just have to keep loving her and praying for her.

cults are annoying.

Sure you can move. She can have her beloved believers come and live with her.

This girl is a perfect example of the jaded hypotics wayfers are. I know because I was saying the same crap myself. But I learned better. Whatever you do, don't go to fellowship. They will suck you in and pressure you to take the class.

The Way does not have the spearhead of truth. Nobody does. It takes wayfers awhile to get comfortable with that and be OK with it. Arrogance never allows humility. If somone claims to be Christian, then they need to exemplify humility.

Sex with every Tom, Dick, and Harry shows a great example....sheesh! If you confront her aobut her sexcapades, she will throw the legalism talk in your face.

I would move now!!

[leafytwiglet]

Oh, yeah.

I forgot about that.

Well, maybe someday I'll be "spiritually mature" enough to grasp the true meaning.

Maybe I'm just not speaking in tongues enough.

I had so forgotten about this... This was one of those ways to exercise superiority over a fellow believer... I have the superior belief to break GOD"S LAWS!!!!!! And you don't...

All fall short of the glory of God...

[Ham]

yep.. just like the National Geographic special..