Indeed the true believers often seem to me to be hellbent on ignoring the obvious when it comes to textual research, i.e. - maybe it IS just a lot of superstitious blather, written and promoted by an ignorant and fearful group of people who lived in a REALLY unenlightened period of history...
Perhaps the first century was an enlightened time of "revelation" and now two thousand years later it is a time to begin to decipher this revelation with "reason".
Okay not really :) but here I am going to show my complete ignorance on this so don't smack me down... perhaps you can explain or anyone else bopping around on here
If God is Spiritual Energy which has no sexual identity why is homosexuality a sin and was it really a sin or was that some ones misunderstanding and change of what the word really said ?????
Okay not really :) but here I am going to show my complete ignorance on this so don't smack me down... perhaps you can explain or anyone else bopping around on here
If God is Spiritual Energy which has no sexual identity why is homosexuality a sin and was it really a sin or was that some ones misunderstanding and change of what the word really said ?????
When our head doesn't hurt then we stop reasoning, we become complacent in left or right brained absolutes where the truth is actually and usually juxtaposed somewhere betwixt the twain.
Okay not really :) but here I am going to show my complete ignorance on this so don't smack me down... perhaps you can explain or anyone else bopping around on here
If God is Spiritual Energy which has no sexual identity why is homosexuality a sin and was it really a sin or was that some ones misunderstanding and change of what the word really said ?????
Hi leafytwiglet,
I am posting this in response to your question I hope you listen through. I think it might help answer why it is considered a sin.
By the way--this man uses "Reason" and "Logic" in his approach to scripture--he and many others-IMHO those questions listed in the initial post have a resounding answer should one chose to hear them.
When our head doesn't hurt then we stop reasoning, we become complacent in left or right brained absolutes where the truth is actually and usually juxtaposed somewhere betwixt the twain.
Holy cats!
People have been looking for the truth for centuries, millenium, really, and all the while its been hiding in the right or left brain absolutes, juxtaposed betwixt the twain.
People have been looking for the truth for centuries, millenium, really, and all the while its been hiding in the right or left brain absolutes, juxtaposed betwixt the twain.
That clip is Ravi Zacharias--a really interesting speaker. He answers many of the questions posted above. . . he also debates atheists. He teaches at Oxford and has some great books. Really fun to listen to--bring a dictionary! :)
People have been looking for the truth for centuries, millenium, really, and all the while its been hiding in the right or left brain absolutes, juxtaposed betwixt the twain.
I should have known.
*sigh*
Yes two millennium ago Jesus Christ was crucified by these same right and left brained fundamentalists, Mary Magdalene nearly lost her life by their hands also and it seems some are still hanging on to their nails and stones even today.
Homosexuality in the old testament is listed with the great sin of eating pork!
Eating pork is an abomination in the eyes of God and anyone who eats it is worthy of death! (cynical)
In the New Testament Paul the Apostle concludes there is neither male nor female (left or right brain) but all are one in Christ then he, Paul (an unmarried man) defines the natural use of a woman?
Isn’t there a bit of contradiction in this and some want to label this all LOGICAL?
Yes two millennium ago a Jesus Christ was crucified by these same right and left brained fundamentalists, Mary Magdalene nearly lost her life by their hands also and it seems some are still hanging on to their nails and stones even today.
Homosexuality in the old testament is listed with the great sin of eating pork!
Eating pork is an abomination in the eyes of God and anyone who eats it is worthy of death! (cynical)
In the New Testament Paul the Apostle concludes there is neither male nor female (left or right brain) but all are one in Christ then he, Paul (an unmarried man) defines the natural use of a woman?
Isn’t there a bit of contradiction in this and some want to label this all LOGICAL?
Isn't it a giant leap in "Logic" to go from "There is neither male nor female. . . " to homosexuality is okay?
Isn't it a giant leap in "Logic" to go from "There is neither male nor female. . . " to homosexuality is okay?
Is it any more of a leap in logic than... a woman who must walk ten paces behind a man and cover her face to, now she can walk beside him and wears makeup?
Jesus Christ was a friend to SINNERS... So how does "mark and avoid" fit in here?
Is it any more of a leap in logic that... a woman who must walk ten paces behind a man and cover her face to, now she can walks beside him and wears makeup?
Gee, ya got me there?????? oh and Jesus was an alchemist????? Take Care Dr. WW. :)
To add: Yes Jesus was a friend to sinners--who mentioned M&A--and I still don't see the logic --but it is a free country--preach on. . .
To Add: I couldn't agree MORE with you about Dobson--I don't believe in HATE--but in love.
Jesus Christ also gathered twelve MALE disciples... none of which at the time had the "LOVE" to stand up and die with him...
(One in ten men are homosexual...)
Colossians 3:5 KJV
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Comment: I don't really know what I am saying here...
EEEK I am sorry!!!! I didn't mean to start a flame war I really just wanted scriptures on the issue. IT is for me and I guess for a lot of people a very touchy and confusing subject. I have a nephew who has recently come out of the closet, I have freinds who are gay... it is something I have long wondered about and I find the whole turn people away teaching to be kind of counter to what Christ's life exemplified.
and yet there is the Sodom and Gamora story too and the whole God called MAn and Woman to be together.
EEEK I am sorry!!!! I didn't mean to start a flame war I really just wanted scriptures on the issue. IT is for me and I guess for a lot of people a very touchy and confusing subject. I have a nephew who has recently come out of the closet, I have freinds who are gay... it is something I have long wondered about and I find the whole turn people away teaching to be kind of counter to what Christ's life exemplified.
and yet there is the Sodom and Gamora story too and the whole God called MAn and Woman to be together.
You didn't do anything. . . I enjoy your posts. We are called to love, not hate. Homosexuals know what Christians think of their lifestyle--no big secret there. What they don't know is the love we are to have for people. Such a pity.
That never justifies sin, but then we have all fallen short of the glory of God.
Some young people I know shared the gospel with an activist who is gay. It was through love -- not hate that they were able to share Jesus with him. He turned his life over to Christ.
He is HIV positive and very active in raising money for research--used to hang out with Elton John! LOL
He was drawn by the love these KIDS had for Him and the need in his heart for the gospel message.
What attracted people to Jesus? Was it that He said--do what you want? No, it was that perfect goodness, wisdom, love, and grace. That amazing rightness--that understanding of the human condition. It is the same now. With a simple phrase Jesus can bring things right back to the heart of our humanity.
He also said --Go and sin no more.
We are to be like Him. It is that goodness and love and deeper understanding of right. It is what we look for--or many of us. It is what we as Christians pray and strive for.
Sin is sin. . . we all sin, but as we grow in His rightness and goodness and understanding--sin should be put away--or fall away.
Hope that makes sense--you didn't start anything. . . :)
They were mostly men (probably homosexuals) who swore off the cozy picked fence lifestyle, hopped on a horse and traveled to the "holy lands" to save Christendom from extinction...
I find it ironic that these Knights who had likely viewed homosexuality as a sacred rite, when they returned from the holy lands, were condemned by the very same Christendom that sent them in search of, “the cup of Christ…”
(In chess, a knight never moves in a straight line.)
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Oakspear
Why must there be? The bible was written by a large number of people over a large span of years. Expecting cohesiveness is not realistic IMHO.
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George Aar
Indeed the true believers often seem to me to be hellbent on ignoring the obvious when it comes to textual research, i.e. - maybe it IS just a lot of superstitious blather, written and promoted by an ignorant and fearful group of people who lived in a REALLY unenlightened period of history...
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DrWearWord
Perhaps the first century was an enlightened time of "revelation" and now two thousand years later it is a time to begin to decipher this revelation with "reason".
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Oakspear
naw.
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leafytwiglet
DrWearWOrd Stop you are making my head hurt
Okay not really :) but here I am going to show my complete ignorance on this so don't smack me down... perhaps you can explain or anyone else bopping around on here
If God is Spiritual Energy which has no sexual identity why is homosexuality a sin and was it really a sin or was that some ones misunderstanding and change of what the word really said ?????
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DrWearWord
When our head doesn't hurt then we stop reasoning, we become complacent in left or right brained absolutes where the truth is actually and usually juxtaposed somewhere betwixt the twain.
The only sin is breaking the law of liberty.
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geisha779
Hi leafytwiglet,
I am posting this in response to your question I hope you listen through. I think it might help answer why it is considered a sin.
By the way--this man uses "Reason" and "Logic" in his approach to scripture--he and many others-IMHO those questions listed in the initial post have a resounding answer should one chose to hear them.
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leafytwiglet
Thanks Geisha,
I listened to it once and will do so again...Interesting Speaker. And very logical.
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waysider
Holy cats!
People have been looking for the truth for centuries, millenium, really, and all the while its been hiding in the right or left brain absolutes, juxtaposed betwixt the twain.
I should have known.
*sigh*
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leafytwiglet
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geisha779
Leafytwiglet,
That clip is Ravi Zacharias--a really interesting speaker. He answers many of the questions posted above. . . he also debates atheists. He teaches at Oxford and has some great books. Really fun to listen to--bring a dictionary! :)
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DrWearWord
Yes two millennium ago Jesus Christ was crucified by these same right and left brained fundamentalists, Mary Magdalene nearly lost her life by their hands also and it seems some are still hanging on to their nails and stones even today.
Homosexuality in the old testament is listed with the great sin of eating pork!
Eating pork is an abomination in the eyes of God and anyone who eats it is worthy of death! (cynical)
In the New Testament Paul the Apostle concludes there is neither male nor female (left or right brain) but all are one in Christ then he, Paul (an unmarried man) defines the natural use of a woman?
Isn’t there a bit of contradiction in this and some want to label this all LOGICAL?
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geisha779
Isn't it a giant leap in "Logic" to go from "There is neither male nor female. . . " to homosexuality is okay?
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DrWearWord
Is it any more of a leap in logic than... a woman who must walk ten paces behind a man and cover her face to, now she can walk beside him and wears makeup?
Jesus Christ was a friend to SINNERS... So how does "mark and avoid" fit in here?
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geisha779
Gee, ya got me there?????? oh and Jesus was an alchemist????? Take Care Dr. WW. :)
To add: Yes Jesus was a friend to sinners--who mentioned M&A--and I still don't see the logic --but it is a free country--preach on. . .
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DrWearWord
And what would you call turning water to wine? Alchemy?
Dictionary.com
Al-che-my
(second meaning) any magical power or process of transmuting a common substance, usually of little value, into a substance of great value.
(One might also note that the word Alchemy is of Arabic/Persian origin.)
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DrWearWord
How many homosexual teens have committed suicide because of this man's loving God?
James Dobson
(feed my lambs)
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geisha779
Well, He walked on water, raised people from the dead--calmed the seas--not to mention the tranfiguration.
What I would call it is the power of God--what you call it is your business.
I wish you well--take care. . .
To Add: I couldn't agree MORE with you about Dobson--I don't believe in HATE--but in love.
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DrWearWord
Jesus Christ also gathered twelve MALE disciples... none of which at the time had the "LOVE" to stand up and die with him...
(One in ten men are homosexual...)
Colossians 3:5 KJV
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Comment: I don't really know what I am saying here...
Just babbling again...
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leafytwiglet
EEEK I am sorry!!!! I didn't mean to start a flame war I really just wanted scriptures on the issue. IT is for me and I guess for a lot of people a very touchy and confusing subject. I have a nephew who has recently come out of the closet, I have freinds who are gay... it is something I have long wondered about and I find the whole turn people away teaching to be kind of counter to what Christ's life exemplified.
and yet there is the Sodom and Gamora story too and the whole God called MAn and Woman to be together.
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DrWearWord
Jesus Christ gathered twelve MALE disciples...
Is that "inordinate affection"?
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geisha779
You didn't do anything. . . I enjoy your posts. We are called to love, not hate. Homosexuals know what Christians think of their lifestyle--no big secret there. What they don't know is the love we are to have for people. Such a pity.
That never justifies sin, but then we have all fallen short of the glory of God.
Some young people I know shared the gospel with an activist who is gay. It was through love -- not hate that they were able to share Jesus with him. He turned his life over to Christ.
He is HIV positive and very active in raising money for research--used to hang out with Elton John! LOL
He was drawn by the love these KIDS had for Him and the need in his heart for the gospel message.
What attracted people to Jesus? Was it that He said--do what you want? No, it was that perfect goodness, wisdom, love, and grace. That amazing rightness--that understanding of the human condition. It is the same now. With a simple phrase Jesus can bring things right back to the heart of our humanity.
He also said --Go and sin no more.
We are to be like Him. It is that goodness and love and deeper understanding of right. It is what we look for--or many of us. It is what we as Christians pray and strive for.
Sin is sin. . . we all sin, but as we grow in His rightness and goodness and understanding--sin should be put away--or fall away.
Hope that makes sense--you didn't start anything. . . :)
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DrWearWord
Geisha
I am not really agreeing or disagreeing with you. I just think that you care regardless and that to me is the heart of Jesus Christ's message.
Many of us, no matter what the word says in certain places know contrary and have a grip on what is right and wrong.
Yet many have differing opinions.
We are told to sin no more, then we are told that we are above sin, then we are told that all who are above sin are liars.
Then Paul the Apostle goes on for several pages saying that he does what he does, not because he does, but because he does...
Then we have the law of liberty versus the law of sin and death, and we are free indeed!
And all of this justifies telling a homosexual that their sacred love for their same sex partner is a devil spirit...
Where is the love in that?
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DrWearWord
I am reminded of the Teutonic Knights.
They were mostly men (probably homosexuals) who swore off the cozy picked fence lifestyle, hopped on a horse and traveled to the "holy lands" to save Christendom from extinction...
I find it ironic that these Knights who had likely viewed homosexuality as a sacred rite, when they returned from the holy lands, were condemned by the very same Christendom that sent them in search of, “the cup of Christ…”
(In chess, a knight never moves in a straight line.)
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