I seriously don't know! The gifts and callings are clearly without repentance, not taken back, but then there's another section where Jesus says that many who call him "Lord, Lord" he will say he never knew them. I'm pretty sure that means they won't make the cut.
Now, does that mean they were never born again or that they didn't use what they were given or used it wrongly? I'm kinda inclined to believe that way, now, but am not completely SOLD one way or the other.
So, my vote is, if he does make it to heaven, he will be shoveling a lot of xxxx, for whatever that's worth! LOL! And, who knows, maybe I will be too!
If anyone finds out for sure, please let me know.
WB
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on January 05, 2004 at 15:38.]
Perhaps those who believe VPW is saved are right, and his duties in the afterlife will be assigned based on the life he lived on this earth.
The only job I can foresee him having that is appropriate for his life is being either a tampon or condom dispenser, or a tampon or condom itself. Used and thrown away after someone is done with him....
I would imagine that VPW is currently buried in the ground by that fountain. I recall seeing a picture of it in one of the magazines.
I beleive that when Christ Jesus returns in the sky to gather us to himself, VPW and all others who died beleiving in Him will rise up to meet Him, all in our 'new' bodies. Sometime after that we will each be judged and rewarded according to what things we have done, possibly to recieve as many as 5 various crowns, possibly not.
I have no idea whether G-d will only see us as 'perfect' sons based on our beleiving and
the fact that we were 'saved'; or if He is going to weigh our goodness against our badness to determine worth.
In either case, it is said that some will get 'in' only by the skin of their teeth.
Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
and
'University of Life' Alumni
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
Maybe he could be experiencing the 'Devil's Bathroom', as per John Lynn's illustration? :D-->
But as far as I am concerned, that old codger is worm food. Period. And his name and reputation, both personal and historical, will forever be tarnished and spoiled.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
My use of the word "excuseable" had more to do with how people viewed the sins, rather than how God views the individual.
It was my obsrrvation that some GSers, while ready to agree what an idiot, pervert, loud-mouth, etc Martindale was, seemed somewhat relucxtant to say or think anything negative about "Doctor".
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
OK, what made me think to ask that was not a desire to be contrary to Oakspear, but rather, I was thinking about that line in the song Amazing Grace that goes..."when we've been there ten thousand years" etc. Even beyond VPW or Hitler or anybody like that, I've always felt that the idea of eternal torment is way disproportionate. I mean, eternity of torment for one lifetime of evil?
If the bible's right, it hasn't even been ten thousand years since Adam and Eve were created, or possibly Lucifer. Ten thousand years from now nobody's going to care about stuff like that. Plus in Revelation God does promise to wipe away all tears from our eyes.
I tend to believe as Trefor said that God is big enough to forgive VPW, and us, too. But who knows? Ex, you might be the one who gets to tell VP what his job assignment will be, or when he's eligible for a pay raise.
I an not even sure what I truly believe concerning whether folks die and go to straight to heaven or somewhere else, or whether they go to "gravedom" and await the return or another ressurection. It's not really that inmportant to me.
But in regards to VPW, isn't it the ultimate form of judgement -- for human beings to determine someones fate after death? Isn't that God's job ? (Speaking only from a Christian prospective)
I just trust that God will be ultimately fair.... whatever He does with Herr Docktor.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
Yeah, we can't judge his heart; that is God's specialty. But we can judge his works and boy, have we. I have to admit, I thought more people would be quick to say "sure he's in hell" or something like that. I think I just figured something out.
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Trefor Heywood
Simple answer is I don't know and it's sheer speculation to come up with an answer.
None of the above options fit with what I believe anyway.
I just have to believe that if God is big enough to forgive VPW then most of us have a chance!
:D-->
Trefor Heywood
"Cymru Am Byth!"
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LG
Oakspear's thread had nothing to do with any existence Wierwille may or may not have after death.
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IMF777
This Wierwille clown probably gets reincarnated every day as a rape victem so that he can finally experience first hand what he did to others......
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vickles
LOL...IMF, I would love to think that way, it would be nice, wouldn't it?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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waterbuffalo
I seriously don't know! The gifts and callings are clearly without repentance, not taken back, but then there's another section where Jesus says that many who call him "Lord, Lord" he will say he never knew them. I'm pretty sure that means they won't make the cut.
Now, does that mean they were never born again or that they didn't use what they were given or used it wrongly? I'm kinda inclined to believe that way, now, but am not completely SOLD one way or the other.
So, my vote is, if he does make it to heaven, he will be shoveling a lot of xxxx, for whatever that's worth! LOL! And, who knows, maybe I will be too!
If anyone finds out for sure, please let me know.
WB
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on January 05, 2004 at 15:38.]
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IMF777
Perhaps those who believe VPW is saved are right, and his duties in the afterlife will be assigned based on the life he lived on this earth.
The only job I can foresee him having that is appropriate for his life is being either a tampon or condom dispenser, or a tampon or condom itself. Used and thrown away after someone is done with him....
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Grizzy
Last reported he was buried out by the colorful, musical fountain........
Spinning so fast in his grave that the BOT/BOD just had to M&A most the staff as they are able to tap enough electricity to power all of HQ!!!!!!
God Bless America; SIZE>
Grizz SIZE>
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Galen
I would imagine that VPW is currently buried in the ground by that fountain. I recall seeing a picture of it in one of the magazines.
I beleive that when Christ Jesus returns in the sky to gather us to himself, VPW and all others who died beleiving in Him will rise up to meet Him, all in our 'new' bodies. Sometime after that we will each be judged and rewarded according to what things we have done, possibly to recieve as many as 5 various crowns, possibly not.
I have no idea whether G-d will only see us as 'perfect' sons based on our beleiving and
the fact that we were 'saved'; or if He is going to weigh our goodness against our badness to determine worth.
In either case, it is said that some will get 'in' only by the skin of their teeth.
Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
and
'University of Life' Alumni
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
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rascal
Anybody see the movie *little nicky* with Adam Sandler? Remember the scene of Hitler`s torment throughout eternity?
We can only hope that he has something as special in store ....
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GarthP2000
Maybe he could be experiencing the 'Devil's Bathroom', as per John Lynn's illustration?
:D-->
But as far as I am concerned, that old codger is worm food. Period. And his name and reputation, both personal and historical, will forever be tarnished and spoiled.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Georgio Jessio
VPW is in charge of Rollaway and Scullery duty in pergatory's kitchen.
Glow-ry!
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Oakspear
My use of the word "excuseable" had more to do with how people viewed the sins, rather than how God views the individual.
It was my obsrrvation that some GSers, while ready to agree what an idiot, pervert, loud-mouth, etc Martindale was, seemed somewhat relucxtant to say or think anything negative about "Doctor".
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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excathedra
i wish him no ill but i am kinda glad he's not around me
?
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johniam
Thank you all for your responses.
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johniam
OK, what made me think to ask that was not a desire to be contrary to Oakspear, but rather, I was thinking about that line in the song Amazing Grace that goes..."when we've been there ten thousand years" etc. Even beyond VPW or Hitler or anybody like that, I've always felt that the idea of eternal torment is way disproportionate. I mean, eternity of torment for one lifetime of evil?
If the bible's right, it hasn't even been ten thousand years since Adam and Eve were created, or possibly Lucifer. Ten thousand years from now nobody's going to care about stuff like that. Plus in Revelation God does promise to wipe away all tears from our eyes.
I tend to believe as Trefor said that God is big enough to forgive VPW, and us, too. But who knows? Ex, you might be the one who gets to tell VP what his job assignment will be, or when he's eligible for a pay raise.
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Ginger Tea
DEAD
Why let the dead finish the job ~ on your head ~ if it was negative?
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Goey
Where is Wierwille ? -- Who knows?
I an not even sure what I truly believe concerning whether folks die and go to straight to heaven or somewhere else, or whether they go to "gravedom" and await the return or another ressurection. It's not really that inmportant to me.
But in regards to VPW, isn't it the ultimate form of judgement -- for human beings to determine someones fate after death? Isn't that God's job ? (Speaking only from a Christian prospective)
I just trust that God will be ultimately fair.... whatever He does with Herr Docktor.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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def59
In light of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, it could be said that vpw was never saved and did not enter into the kingdom.
I find it hard to believe that he was ever saved, what with all his doubt, hatred, fear and sexual problems.
Alot of people can know the Bible, but to twist it like he did makes me wonder.
But let God be the judge and the rest of us learners from vpw's mistakes.
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Hopefull
I agree with excath not to wish him any ill will.
I am more concerned with if li'l ole me is going to heaven- in that respect, I hope he is going there cuz then it means there is hope for me also.
It is up to God to both judge and vindicate.
"If The Way hates it, it has to be Good."
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diazbro
I don't know where VPW or any dead person
is right now though I do know that some of the more dedicated VPW loyalists use VPW's death as block to any meaningful conversation about his
"works" claiming that any criticism of VPW is
horribly wrong since he is dead and cannot
speak in his own defense. Of course this does
not stop the very same people from speaking
poorly of others who have passed away. Sort of
a double standard isn't it ?
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Dot Matrix
Diazbro
Ditto-
I agree with the whole post.
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johniam
Yeah, we can't judge his heart; that is God's specialty. But we can judge his works and boy, have we. I have to admit, I thought more people would be quick to say "sure he's in hell" or something like that. I think I just figured something out.
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excathedra
and that would be ?
?
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johniam
Sorry, it's classified.
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