Illness and TWI

[Tzaia]

It's crazy how her relatives act; what can be done????

Love them. I am dead serious. Love them. If anyone is still involved with TWI after all that has been revealed since 1987, if anyone still clings to the notion that TWI and any of its offshoots is in possession of or is able to teach the word as it has not been taught since the first century, then you are dealing with people who not only have a severe case of denial, they also just might enjoy the perceived persecution that confrontation of stinking thinking provides. But the best way to reach them is to love them and accept them where they are.

waysider is also right. Many who remain involved in TWI do so out of a sense of fear, or are bordering on pathological need to be right. Either way it puts them on the defensive, which makes more than a few become pretty offensive.

Another thing you might consider is the way the orthodox church treats those who don't (can't) accept the trinity as heretics, and we know that. Just as that is an important point of agreement among trinitarians, it's also an important point of agreement among non-trinitarians. Both sides question whether the other is actually a Christian. What I have tried to do to bridge that gap is make it a non-issue. I also have some specific ways of diffusing that particular argument.

Since "right doctrine," "like-mindedness." and "rightly dividing the word" is highly valued within TWI, TWI holdouts tend to get into their fair share of doctrinal disputes and is suspicious of anyone who doesn't think like them. With my husband's side of the family, we just didn't discuss religion. On my side of the family, we (at my insistence) agreed not to talk about it. That way we were able to preserve relationships. So I would tell them that while I'm not interested in becoming involved in TWI, I do want a relationship. If they've been in a while, that will fall on deaf ears as bringing people on board is the primary objective, but they might eventually come around.

[bewareofthevictorwerewolf]

another thing to consider.. practically EVERY SINGLE "leader" in that organization were trained by, with or followed the man who could "biblically" convince staff it was a godly thing to "loan" him their wives (documented in at least one instance), or enabled him..

to argue with them, is just to argue with insanity, in my opinion..

[bewareofthevictorwerewolf]

We will continue to dialogue and try to

occupy the place where we can

intersect without controversy,

It is a shame religious leaders like politicians

let us down by failing to self regulate

against the temptation to sin.

My wife and I are mainstream

evangelical Christians and so

from our vanatge point we can see

how God's people get burned and turned

off ("I like your Christ..." -Ghandi), and go

elsewhere into another den of wolves.

We're not part of a church community currently

because of petty keeping up with Jones' mentaility,

and garden variety judgmentalism, and we haven't

joined a few mega church's who's services are moving,

if highly produced, because of their institutional arrognace

and Starbucks like branding of Christ. But

we're hopeful a place exists for us.

The only thing I can say is Christ is

perfect; Christ Americanized is far

from it most of the time with

moments of brillance here and there.

Thanks to all who shared. We'll keep you posted....

[socks]

Christ Americanized

You mean He's not a rich blonde Italian with a southern drawl that shoots from the hip and keeps it re-al? :blink:

Normalizing the relationship is what you want to do - normal meaning it has some authenticity and relationship to who you all really are, not just who they are and what they impose on you.

I always try really hard to get along with others and maintain some civility and dignity so as not to embarrass them or myself. But there are limits. Not sure what you have at stake, so I could see keeping a moderate distance and looking for opportunity to help them make the evolutionary jump from Religious Neanderthal to Considerate Christian. But if you can't, I see nothing wrong with telling them to back off or butt out, or both.

Or you could just give them free tickets the next The Trinity Singers come to town.

[geisha779]

We will continue to dialogue and try to

occupy the place where we can

intersect without controversy,

It is a shame religious leaders like politicians

let us down by failing to self regulate

against the temptation to sin.

My wife and I are mainstream

evangelical Christians and so

from our vanatge point we can see

how God's people get burned and turned

off ("I like your Christ..." -Ghandi), and go

elsewhere into another den of wolves.

We're not part of a church community currently

because of petty keeping up with Jones' mentaility,

and garden variety judgmentalism, and we haven't

joined a few mega church's who's services are moving,

if highly produced, because of their institutional arrognace

and Starbucks like branding of Christ. But

we're hopeful a place exists for us.

The only thing I can say is Christ is

perfect; Christ Americanized is far

from it most of the time with

moments of brillance here and there.

Thanks to all who shared. We'll keep you posted....

Just a thought since I can so relate to what you have written. . . .while you are looking for a church home. . . . there is a great place in Denton TX --too far for me to go every week (I am on the east coast)--Village Church.

There is a young Pastor there --Matt Chandler--you can listen to his sermons by podcast for free--you need itunes.

He addresses much of what you have written and seems pretty grounded. We love to listen. We then bring some of it to our church. . . the ideas---the understanding. I am leeryt of recommending anyone, but you may already have heard of the church.

Here is the link. He will make you laugh, but better yet--he really challenges the idea of "Christ Americanized" while staying true to the Jesus of scripture.

http://www.thevillagechurch.net/

I really hope you get a chance to check it out. BTW I was reading that Ghandi quote today. . . .

[Twinky]

We have imperfect bodies. We inherit a range of genes and some are "better" than others.

It's not a sin to catch a cold, or to fall over and break a bone. Not a sin to be born with parts of the body missing or defective.

God looks on the (spiritual) heart, not the physical body.

Because of time spent in TWI, some have (spiritual) hearts that have become damaged, or maybe were damaged to start with. even that's fixable.

But TWI promotes spiritual "hardening of the arteries." That's a very serious disease.

[bliss]

I know how you feel to have family still involved and clueless....

what to do? Everyone had great things to share.

Read Matt 5. Love em like Jesus instructed. That is the only way they will ever hear you....if ever. How can we tell them about ''our'' Jesus, if we can't love them like he did?

It's not our job to tell them what to do, or that they are wrong. Pray for them, and obey Jesus' commandment.

If God is calling them to a greater relationship with Him, they'll hear Hid voice, and SEE your actions.

peace

ps. what band do you work with?

[OperaBuff]

Or you could just give them free tickets the next The Trinity Singers come to town.

Ooooh, I just love The Trinity Singers! Have you heard their latest? A song called "Bless God, For Christ's Sake". Goes like this:

"We are one and you are one,

We and you are one, Selah,

One and we and you and He

Makes three. Can't you see?

(Refrain:)

We are three and one and two

Makes four as then and now,

We can heal with clarity and time,

With arithmetic's plow.

We are two and you are one,

We are three together, you and me,

For five then six makes three and two

Without whom there is none.

(refrain)

Three are we and you are four,

Let's always remember two is three

When He shall come, we shall be here

Still counting in a tree.

(refrain)

[Oakspear]

When i was involved in TWI I had 6 children at home. They got colds, they got the flu, heck they got chicken pox. My ex-wife and I got colds and flu.

We were "reproved" once for our family being sick, since, especially since some of the kids were pretty young, either the ex or me would stay home with sick kids on twig night, we were missing "the greatness of the Word".

So I started keeping track in a planner who was sick in our twig. After about three months, Mr. Leader sought to reprove me again, demanding to know why things hadn't changed. I presented him with the statistics that showed that he and his wife were sick more often than anyone else in the whole fellowship and that the fact that I had eight people in my home only made it look like we were sick all the time. He looked kind of stunned and found something else to reprove me for.