I explain it in this way if I were to write a book about twi(from my personal notes)
As the poison began to seep she writes...the glutinous sea pulled the people of twi under ice to a place so dark,where the primal scream cannot be heard,... for there is no one their to hear it.
Meaning to go i the direction of the promised land..the wind of change took us to the POINT OF NO RETURN.
The navigator vpw and the board of trustees laughing all the way to the bank!
As the slaves sat(sit)ROWING THE WHITE WASHED SHIP. Mothership-intenational hqs 1.way corps,2.way family corp,3.way college,4.wow amb$%#!ador5.way productions the prettiest ship of all,to motivate the slaves as the row.
Those who held the handwhips. The way corp(but it was a loving hand whip if their could be one)
Their destination all these ships was word over the world via pfal,nonstop. live or die! So with bare essentails on their backs they row and blinders on their eyes never weary,never looking back.
Stopping at ports along the way for fresh blood,a new supply to row the white washed ships where the glutinous sea would swallow u up to under ice hypothermia.
IF THEY SLAVE BECAME SO WEAK THE CHAINS WERE RELEASED AND THE SLAVE WOULD BE CARED FOR BY THE HAND WHIPERS(to whip them into shape,discipline ect..
)so they could possibly come to desire to be handwhippers themselves, if the slave was to weak they'd be thrown out to sea to what appeared to them to be shark infested waters and the slave would plead to the servant of the father of lies as he longed for the slave to
. The slave felt security in the chains and obeyed(not questioned leadership)
BUT,WHEN THE CHAINS WERE RELEASED some slaves escaped and were able to swim ashore,but when the slave got to the island they spoke a differant language and the slave didn;t understand but felt safe.
The islanders didn't see the burns on her back(HER HEART)FROM BEING WHIPPED nor the brand of twi,
only when she was alone ...she would see them..she could hide them well. She still could hear them say if you walk away from this....mentally she still was not free.
The slave met an islander and married him,the had children and even though the slave was a slave she NEVER EVER wasnted her children to be slaves
so..she released them into the hands of the good island people and even though she didn't agree with everything they taught the slave she blended in.
They began to love they slave but they never knew she was a slave and at the end of the day she would come home and almost forget that she was a slave then she'd see the scars on her back and know she wasn't their yet and the slave would cry..but nobody heard the cry of the slave,she would play music and cry but,they didn't hear the cry they would only say play more and you know so much of the word say more.
But, one day someone heard the cry and it scared the slave and she felt threatened,but the slave saw Jesus in her eye and the good islander helped her and said the Lord,would heal her hurts. ...
THEN the slave opened the blackbox and her wounds began to bleed and the islander put balm on the hurts and annointed them,but their were so many more slaves how would we reach them and the slave began to cry like she had never cried before. galations 5:1 for it was freedom the CHRIST SET US FREE
I'm waiting for certain leadership's life-style to become exposed. That will establish more practical error, and those that stay will have to once again find an excuse to stay because of their fear that there's nowhere else to go.
I understand if one puts up an electric fence, a cow only has to make contact with it only once.. maybe twice. As soon as the association is made of pain at the outside barrier of the property, one can turn the fence off, and the cow will not venture there again.
One can taunt the cow to go look, see if there's better pasture on the outside..
in my case, I went to look.. loy ranted on about the evils of civic organizations, how they were basically useless and self-serving, full of devils and corrupt..
so I looked. It was a little painful, at first.
I think those who are left in the pasture, for the most part, are those who cannot consciously break the conditioning..
I was thinking of another example about my quote from the other thread. When LCM was caught with his pants down, I was talking to my Cabinet Overseer's wife. She worked with me. She mentioned that a woman had come to her about having sex with Wierwille. This woman was distraught over it. This Cabinet Overseer's wife said, "Do we leave the Word??" To her, the sin was justified by staying with "the Word". Where did "the Word" come from? It was taught out of the mouth of an adultering drunk. That ruins his credibility IMHO. I'm not saying EVERYTHING was wrong, but it was nowhere perfect like we thought.
There seems to be a huge disconnect in TWI that the ministry is the Word. When you put 2 and 2 together and you keep remembering things like "Practical error always leads to doctrinal error", you have to come to the conclusion that Wieriwille's doctrine wasn't as right as we were lead to believe. You have to believe you can leave TWI and still be in God's graces. That's really hard for some. It takes some longer than others.
Wayfers today don't deduct to that level because the doctrine has been pushed in to their brains day after day, year after year. I got tired of seeing people treated terribly while the prevailing thought was that it was acceptable because it was reproof. Reproof was a one-sided abuse which allowed leadership to attack individuals. In TWI it wasn't meant to reprove leadership. We were taught to revere leadership or expect extreme consequences. Romans 13 was knocked in to our brains. We wouldn't dare confront leadership. I know there were some brave people who tried to reprove Wierwille and his actions, and those were the ones who were kicked out and labeled "Possessed". Girls who were too hurt from his actions were also labeled possessed and kicked out. It was all damage control. It was not godly. There's no way anyone can convince me that God worked in that man or the organization. There are people with good hearts, and I know God honors them.
Supporting TWI is no different than putting lipstick on your pig.
It goes to show you that many equate "the Word" with the organization, especially when there are offshoots whose teachings are indistinguishable from TWI's
The sad thing is that we have family and friends who haven't left because they don't think there's anything else. These friends are what twi would call weak and are kind of living on the fringe of twi world, but they won't leave.
Yup, (reasoning goes...) as flawed as it is, it remains the best out there. I bought into that tripe for a long time after leaving. Then after the meltdown at CES, we did nothing because while TWI was really bad and CES was pretty bad, nothing else was worth the time.
Then we picked a really big church. So big that we felt we were not under someone's watchful eye. And we decided to just be. A season of simply being made it easier to let go of all the notions that somehow there is "nothing else".
I think one of the weirdest beliefs that was put out was that VP had done the research and so we didn't need to go study the bible. I got that from several different people and thought it was stupid becasue teh bible said (and VP too ) Study to show they self approved unto God Rightly dividing the word of turth.
THat and the fear fo leaving. My husband was Way Corps and when we left I think he was afraid God would strike us dead. Of course God didn't do any such thing.
I am so glad now that we left before I was in the ministry more than the 4 years i was with them.
I am thankful for my WOW year though no mater how anyone else feels. I really did learn a lot about God that year and about standing on my own two feet and being responsible for my stand on the word and not dependant on any one else.
I guess TWI wasn't so far off the mark when I was involved from 79-82... But I also bucked the system a lot.
Well I really should say some of the really icky stuff had not yet trickled down to the twig level yet. but I did hear some disturbing things then too.. you know how that goes little gossipy snippets you would hear sometimes at the Farm in August when so many people were there.
When my hubby and I left twi we were both "concerned" about some lies twi told us,it took awhile
for the poison to get out of our system.
But when we lost our first child (I) thought it was for walking away,took awhile to get over that,but
I believe the opposite happens to people that get out.
Because now God can protect you even more than ever before because that foothold of darkness
that comes from false doctrine doesn't CONSUME YOU.
I believe God truely honors our stand for trying to serve in him thru something we didn't know was
truely a lie and twisted scripture.
God knows your heart.
What a difficult thing to go thru and that is the worst part of leaving... the not being sure if you are going against God even though you know it is the right thing for you..
How could the right thing for you ever be going against God..
I loved this quote from another thread. I was actually thinking about this the other day. How many people who are still involved in twi just feel stuck because they believe the above quote--that there is nothing else out there?
I was so scared to leave 3 years ago. I really thought there was nothing else out there. I found out there was a lot more "available" and that it was better than twi!
The sad thing is that we have family and friends who haven't left because they don't think there's anything else. These friends are what twi would call weak and are kind of living on the fringe of twi world, but they won't leave.
I know I used to feel the same way,but since leaving I have found that there is plenty more out there too.It seems twi is afraid to move on and learn anything new.When I left three years ago they were still basing all their teachings off of Dr.'s studies in abundant living books,it's like they are trying to resurrect the ministry of a dead man.The b.o.d. of twi should be ashamed of themselves for basically shutting down any operating of the gift ministry of an apostle,no new light.
I hope your family and friends will realize that the reason they are having thoughts about leaving twi is because God is working in them to do so and that staying involved out of fear is a lousy reason to stay.God's promise "to never leave us or forsake us" and all His other promises still work even if you don't go to twi.
I was afraid to leave because outside the walls of zion was a wasteland, full of ravenously devilish unbelievers and I was afraid that my children would be taken from me. I believed there was nowhere else to go, that every church was unsafe, that no unbeliever could be a friend.
what I found when I got brave enough to leave was that although it was uncomfortable, people outside tended to be more decent than people inside because they had no incentive to micromanage my life, and that I don't really need to belong to anything. I decided not to go to a church of any kind until I could sort out what I believe, and now I don't feel the need to go at all. there may be plenty of good places to go, but it was very nice finding that "having no where else to go" was not the horrible thing twi made it out to be!
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cheranne
They certainly sound trapped. But they can be FREE. Just walk away!
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cheranne
I explain it in this way if I were to write a book about twi(from my personal notes)
As the poison began to seep she writes...the glutinous sea pulled the people of twi under ice to a place so dark,where the primal scream cannot be heard,... for there is no one their to hear it.
Meaning to go i the direction of the promised land..the wind of change took us to the POINT OF NO RETURN.
The navigator vpw and the board of trustees laughing all the way to the bank!
As the slaves sat(sit)ROWING THE WHITE WASHED SHIP. Mothership-intenational hqs 1.way corps,2.way family corp,3.way college,4.wow amb$%#!ador5.way productions the prettiest ship of all,to motivate the slaves as the row.
Those who held the handwhips. The way corp(but it was a loving hand whip if their could be one)
Their destination all these ships was word over the world via pfal,nonstop. live or die! So with bare essentails on their backs they row and blinders on their eyes never weary,never looking back.
Stopping at ports along the way for fresh blood,a new supply to row the white washed ships where the glutinous sea would swallow u up to under ice hypothermia.
IF THEY SLAVE BECAME SO WEAK THE CHAINS WERE RELEASED AND THE SLAVE WOULD BE CARED FOR BY THE HAND WHIPERS(to whip them into shape,discipline ect..
)so they could possibly come to desire to be handwhippers themselves, if the slave was to weak they'd be thrown out to sea to what appeared to them to be shark infested waters and the slave would plead to the servant of the father of lies as he longed for the slave to
. The slave felt security in the chains and obeyed(not questioned leadership)
BUT,WHEN THE CHAINS WERE RELEASED some slaves escaped and were able to swim ashore,but when the slave got to the island they spoke a differant language and the slave didn;t understand but felt safe.
The islanders didn't see the burns on her back(HER HEART)FROM BEING WHIPPED nor the brand of twi,
only when she was alone ...she would see them..she could hide them well. She still could hear them say if you walk away from this....mentally she still was not free.
The slave met an islander and married him,the had children and even though the slave was a slave she NEVER EVER wasnted her children to be slaves
so..she released them into the hands of the good island people and even though she didn't agree with everything they taught the slave she blended in.
They began to love they slave but they never knew she was a slave and at the end of the day she would come home and almost forget that she was a slave then she'd see the scars on her back and know she wasn't their yet and the slave would cry..but nobody heard the cry of the slave,she would play music and cry but,they didn't hear the cry they would only say play more and you know so much of the word say more.
But, one day someone heard the cry and it scared the slave and she felt threatened,but the slave saw Jesus in her eye and the good islander helped her and said the Lord,would heal her hurts. ...
THEN the slave opened the blackbox and her wounds began to bleed and the islander put balm on the hurts and annointed them,but their were so many more slaves how would we reach them and the slave began to cry like she had never cried before. galations 5:1 for it was freedom the CHRIST SET US FREE
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Ham
I understand if one puts up an electric fence, a cow only has to make contact with it only once.. maybe twice. As soon as the association is made of pain at the outside barrier of the property, one can turn the fence off, and the cow will not venture there again.
One can taunt the cow to go look, see if there's better pasture on the outside..
in my case, I went to look.. loy ranted on about the evils of civic organizations, how they were basically useless and self-serving, full of devils and corrupt..
so I looked. It was a little painful, at first.
I think those who are left in the pasture, for the most part, are those who cannot consciously break the conditioning..
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cheranne
good analogy ham!
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Nottawayfer
I was thinking of another example about my quote from the other thread. When LCM was caught with his pants down, I was talking to my Cabinet Overseer's wife. She worked with me. She mentioned that a woman had come to her about having sex with Wierwille. This woman was distraught over it. This Cabinet Overseer's wife said, "Do we leave the Word??" To her, the sin was justified by staying with "the Word". Where did "the Word" come from? It was taught out of the mouth of an adultering drunk. That ruins his credibility IMHO. I'm not saying EVERYTHING was wrong, but it was nowhere perfect like we thought.
There seems to be a huge disconnect in TWI that the ministry is the Word. When you put 2 and 2 together and you keep remembering things like "Practical error always leads to doctrinal error", you have to come to the conclusion that Wieriwille's doctrine wasn't as right as we were lead to believe. You have to believe you can leave TWI and still be in God's graces. That's really hard for some. It takes some longer than others.
Wayfers today don't deduct to that level because the doctrine has been pushed in to their brains day after day, year after year. I got tired of seeing people treated terribly while the prevailing thought was that it was acceptable because it was reproof. Reproof was a one-sided abuse which allowed leadership to attack individuals. In TWI it wasn't meant to reprove leadership. We were taught to revere leadership or expect extreme consequences. Romans 13 was knocked in to our brains. We wouldn't dare confront leadership. I know there were some brave people who tried to reprove Wierwille and his actions, and those were the ones who were kicked out and labeled "Possessed". Girls who were too hurt from his actions were also labeled possessed and kicked out. It was all damage control. It was not godly. There's no way anyone can convince me that God worked in that man or the organization. There are people with good hearts, and I know God honors them.
Supporting TWI is no different than putting lipstick on your pig.
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excathedra
i pray for people who believe they are trapped. i truly do trust in god and our lord jesus christ that they can help them if they want help.
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Oakspear
It goes to show you that many equate "the Word" with the organization, especially when there are offshoots whose teachings are indistinguishable from TWI's
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Tzaia
Yup, (reasoning goes...) as flawed as it is, it remains the best out there. I bought into that tripe for a long time after leaving. Then after the meltdown at CES, we did nothing because while TWI was really bad and CES was pretty bad, nothing else was worth the time.
Then we picked a really big church. So big that we felt we were not under someone's watchful eye. And we decided to just be. A season of simply being made it easier to let go of all the notions that somehow there is "nothing else".
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leafytwiglet
I think one of the weirdest beliefs that was put out was that VP had done the research and so we didn't need to go study the bible. I got that from several different people and thought it was stupid becasue teh bible said (and VP too ) Study to show they self approved unto God Rightly dividing the word of turth.
THat and the fear fo leaving. My husband was Way Corps and when we left I think he was afraid God would strike us dead. Of course God didn't do any such thing.
I am so glad now that we left before I was in the ministry more than the 4 years i was with them.
I am thankful for my WOW year though no mater how anyone else feels. I really did learn a lot about God that year and about standing on my own two feet and being responsible for my stand on the word and not dependant on any one else.
I guess TWI wasn't so far off the mark when I was involved from 79-82... But I also bucked the system a lot.
Well I really should say some of the really icky stuff had not yet trickled down to the twig level yet. but I did hear some disturbing things then too.. you know how that goes little gossipy snippets you would hear sometimes at the Farm in August when so many people were there.
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cheranne
When my hubby and I left twi we were both "concerned" about some lies twi told us,it took awhile
for the poison to get out of our system.
But when we lost our first child (I) thought it was for walking away,took awhile to get over that,but
I believe the opposite happens to people that get out.
Because now God can protect you even more than ever before because that foothold of darkness
that comes from false doctrine doesn't CONSUME YOU.
I believe God truely honors our stand for trying to serve in him thru something we didn't know was
truely a lie and twisted scripture.
God knows your heart.
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leafytwiglet
What a difficult thing to go thru and that is the worst part of leaving... the not being sure if you are going against God even though you know it is the right thing for you..
How could the right thing for you ever be going against God..
IT makes me realize how far off TWI was.
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mudflaps
I know I used to feel the same way,but since leaving I have found that there is plenty more out there too.It seems twi is afraid to move on and learn anything new.When I left three years ago they were still basing all their teachings off of Dr.'s studies in abundant living books,it's like they are trying to resurrect the ministry of a dead man.The b.o.d. of twi should be ashamed of themselves for basically shutting down any operating of the gift ministry of an apostle,no new light.
I hope your family and friends will realize that the reason they are having thoughts about leaving twi is because God is working in them to do so and that staying involved out of fear is a lousy reason to stay.God's promise "to never leave us or forsake us" and all His other promises still work even if you don't go to twi.
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potato
I was afraid to leave because outside the walls of zion was a wasteland, full of ravenously devilish unbelievers and I was afraid that my children would be taken from me. I believed there was nowhere else to go, that every church was unsafe, that no unbeliever could be a friend.
what I found when I got brave enough to leave was that although it was uncomfortable, people outside tended to be more decent than people inside because they had no incentive to micromanage my life, and that I don't really need to belong to anything. I decided not to go to a church of any kind until I could sort out what I believe, and now I don't feel the need to go at all. there may be plenty of good places to go, but it was very nice finding that "having no where else to go" was not the horrible thing twi made it out to be!
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cheranne
Exactly my thoughts Potato! (they had no incentive to micromanage my life)
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