I didn't realize they used an outside tour company. Has it always been this way, and will anyone from the tour company be teaching? They don't really say.
what I find interesting is how they can find enough people in today's economy with $4,000 in discretionary spendable cash.. to make the "deal" worth doing.. "hurry, hurry hurrayyyy.. only room for forty-five.."
who pays js and wife's way?
with current conditions, the only thing that comes to my mind is "out of touch"..
what I find interesting is how they can find enough people in today's economy with $4,000 in discretionary spendable cash.. to make the "deal" worth doing.. "hurry, hurry hurrayyyy.. only room for forty-five.."
who pays js and wife's way?
with current conditions, the only thing that comes to my mind is "out of touch"..
but it's just an opinion I guess..
My "experience" (a little Momentus reference there) is that most tours that include a pastor either give deep discounts or with a minimum number, send them for free. I know that as it was that way on every tour I've taken. I know that one tour before they moved into the offices on 52nd street, a staff member and others went free of charge due to the number who signed up.
I remember one of your earlier posts Tzaia.. you seemed to think money was rather "tight" in the organization..
I didn't realize they used an outside tour company. Has it always been this way, and will anyone from the tour company be teaching? They don't really say.
I know this is kind of catty, but I have to say it. I was under the distinct impression from prior conversations that JWS believes he can teach Israel better than the guys who have been doing it nearly weekly for the past 20 years.
What I do know is that they will not be able to go around without at least a driver. You can get around without a tour guide, but there are areas that are by appointment only, and it takes someone who knows the ropes to get around since 9/11 and I'm reasonably sure he hasn't been there post 9/11 mainly because he thought I was nuts for going there twice in 2004.
that's kind of what I'm thinking.. the salary at supposedly cash-strapped christian "ministry".. no way it would pay..
what is he really doing.. hob-knobbing with a few who have $5000.00 to spend in a discretionary manner.. who he can "grace" with his presence..
what is he REALLY playing at..
The problem is we will probably not really know who all went when it's all said and done, but I can say with reasonable assuredness that anyone from the "home" office or board will not have to pay if they go. Not that I particularly care, but you would think the money could be put to better use.
The problem is we will probably not really know who all went when it's all said and done, but I can say with reasonable assuredness that anyone from the "home" office or board will not have to pay if they go. Not that I particularly care, but you would think the money could be put to better use.
I haven't been around here in quite a while and just dropped in....and this is what I find. Seriously, Tzaia - shame on you. You position yourself on this board as someone who is "in the know" about CES/STF, and you say with "reasonable assuredness" that home office staff/board members would be sent on a $4,000 tour for FREE??? Are you serious?? I was blessed to go on the Footsteps of Paul tour a few years back, I was home office staff, and I was only able to go because a certain couple (not home office staff or board members) and a few family members donated money (all of it completely unsolicited, mind you) because they knew that the trip would have a huge impact on my spiritual growth. Same was true when a home office staffer went on the last Israel trip. Your assumption is not only completely baseless, but is also irresponsible, because it leads others to believe that CES/STF operates in a way in which it does not. CES/STF board members and staffers don't get to go jet-setting around the world with the money that people donate to the ministry. And even though board members and their families can technically attend annual events for free, in most cases they pay full price anyway - just like anyone else would.
For the record (i.e. - for the sake of other posters): I know Tzaia, which is one of the reasons I'm being so hard on him/her. Though he/she does have some insight into CES/STF home office dealings, he/she hasn't had direct interaction with home office folks for years.
Ironically, something good actually came out of this thread: my wife just informed me that a staffer checking out Greasespot saw this thread and realized that the link posted on the STF website lead to the SBS home page, instead of the actual STF Israel trip page, which has more detailed information and contact information for SBS should one have more questions. The link has been corrected and the veil of secrecy lifted (sorry...couldn't resist).
Finally, to Ham: yeah, the economy sucks and many (including my family) are feeling the heat, but having the trip is hardly "out of touch." The fact is that quite a few of the people who are going have known about the trip for years and have been saving money for the opportunity to walk in the footsteps of Jesus Christ and see the "homeland" of our faith first hand. John S didn't just wake up one morning and say "We need to organize a trip to Israel and ask cash strapped folks to scrape up $4,000 for it!" Also, I'm sure that John S and the folks at SBS (if you check out their website you'll see that the founder - Peter Miano - divides his time between Boston and Israel) are taking a long, hard look at recent events in Gaza to determine if the trip will actually happen. Only time will tell.
I haven't been around here in quite a while and just dropped in....and this is what I find. Seriously, Tzaia - shame on you. You position yourself on this board as someone who is "in the know" about CES/STF, and you say with "reasonable assuredness" that home office staff/board members would be sent on a $4,000 tour for FREE??? Are you serious?? I was blessed to go on the Footsteps of Paul tour a few years back, I was home office staff, and I was only able to go because a certain couple (not home office staff or board members) and a few family members donated money (all of it completely unsolicited, mind you) because they knew that the trip would have a huge impact on my spiritual growth.
I don't know why you felt the need to attack me. I didn't lie. I don't profess to speak for the current situation. I only speak from my personal experience, which you confirmed.
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Rejoice
I didn't realize they used an outside tour company. Has it always been this way, and will anyone from the tour company be teaching? They don't really say.
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Ham
what I find interesting is how they can find enough people in today's economy with $4,000 in discretionary spendable cash.. to make the "deal" worth doing.. "hurry, hurry hurrayyyy.. only room for forty-five.."
who pays js and wife's way?
with current conditions, the only thing that comes to my mind is "out of touch"..
but it's just an opinion I guess..
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Ham
I remember one of your earlier posts Tzaia.. you seemed to think money was rather "tight" in the organization..
isn't this trip kind of "excessive"?
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Tzaia
My "experience" (a little Momentus reference there) is that most tours that include a pastor either give deep discounts or with a minimum number, send them for free. I know that as it was that way on every tour I've taken. I know that one tour before they moved into the offices on 52nd street, a staff member and others went free of charge due to the number who signed up.
Not if you don't have to pay for it
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Tzaia
I know this is kind of catty, but I have to say it. I was under the distinct impression from prior conversations that JWS believes he can teach Israel better than the guys who have been doing it nearly weekly for the past 20 years.
What I do know is that they will not be able to go around without at least a driver. You can get around without a tour guide, but there are areas that are by appointment only, and it takes someone who knows the ropes to get around since 9/11 and I'm reasonably sure he hasn't been there post 9/11 mainly because he thought I was nuts for going there twice in 2004.
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Ham
that's kind of what I'm thinking.. the salary at supposedly cash-strapped christian "ministry".. no way it would pay..
what is he really doing.. hob-knobbing with a few who have $5000.00 to spend in a discretionary manner.. who he can "grace" with his presence..
what is he REALLY playing at..
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Tzaia
The problem is we will probably not really know who all went when it's all said and done, but I can say with reasonable assuredness that anyone from the "home" office or board will not have to pay if they go. Not that I particularly care, but you would think the money could be put to better use.
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Billy D
I haven't been around here in quite a while and just dropped in....and this is what I find. Seriously, Tzaia - shame on you. You position yourself on this board as someone who is "in the know" about CES/STF, and you say with "reasonable assuredness" that home office staff/board members would be sent on a $4,000 tour for FREE??? Are you serious?? I was blessed to go on the Footsteps of Paul tour a few years back, I was home office staff, and I was only able to go because a certain couple (not home office staff or board members) and a few family members donated money (all of it completely unsolicited, mind you) because they knew that the trip would have a huge impact on my spiritual growth. Same was true when a home office staffer went on the last Israel trip. Your assumption is not only completely baseless, but is also irresponsible, because it leads others to believe that CES/STF operates in a way in which it does not. CES/STF board members and staffers don't get to go jet-setting around the world with the money that people donate to the ministry. And even though board members and their families can technically attend annual events for free, in most cases they pay full price anyway - just like anyone else would.
For the record (i.e. - for the sake of other posters): I know Tzaia, which is one of the reasons I'm being so hard on him/her. Though he/she does have some insight into CES/STF home office dealings, he/she hasn't had direct interaction with home office folks for years.
Ironically, something good actually came out of this thread: my wife just informed me that a staffer checking out Greasespot saw this thread and realized that the link posted on the STF website lead to the SBS home page, instead of the actual STF Israel trip page, which has more detailed information and contact information for SBS should one have more questions. The link has been corrected and the veil of secrecy lifted (sorry...couldn't resist).
Finally, to Ham: yeah, the economy sucks and many (including my family) are feeling the heat, but having the trip is hardly "out of touch." The fact is that quite a few of the people who are going have known about the trip for years and have been saving money for the opportunity to walk in the footsteps of Jesus Christ and see the "homeland" of our faith first hand. John S didn't just wake up one morning and say "We need to organize a trip to Israel and ask cash strapped folks to scrape up $4,000 for it!" Also, I'm sure that John S and the folks at SBS (if you check out their website you'll see that the founder - Peter Miano - divides his time between Boston and Israel) are taking a long, hard look at recent events in Gaza to determine if the trip will actually happen. Only time will tell.
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Tzaia
I don't know why you felt the need to attack me. I didn't lie. I don't profess to speak for the current situation. I only speak from my personal experience, which you confirmed.
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