"Tupos"

[DrWearWord]

Example of a "type" cast.

type set?

character?

Edited November 23, 2008 by DrWearWord

[cman]

sodnʇ

[sirguessalot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneatype

[cman]

Good to see you sirg, especially on a thread like this one.

Nice post and picture.

Thanks DrWearWord for starting a great thread.

there are types and reflections.

I don't know if there is a difference between the two terms.

And we can reflect ourselves or others as well as become a tupos of ourselves or others.

Being aware of what is happening in us and with us is interesting.

[DrWearWord]

Much thanks for your replies!

I have been putting allot of thought into this word "tupos"...

Strong’s defines tupos as a word that describes a sound. I remember DWW hitting his hand on the podium and saying, “tupos people!”, imprinting that idea into my mind forever.

It is amazing the Greeks visualized a typewriter a couple thousand years before printing was invented and that news agencies have been using the sound byte of "tupos" in the background of their broadCASTS for decades to imprint their often slanted propaganda into our sometimes ignorant psyche.

I believe the Greeks envisioned tupos because of the open forums as Dr said… They saw the philosophers pounding their hands on the podium and realized that the words were imprinting their mark upon the mind.

So doctor told us of the process but he never revealed the actual image of the character.

So let’s speculate we are imprinted… but, with which character of the alphabet or number?

One might say we are imprinted with the image of an X because of one of Jesus' names is Xavier... or it could be the imprinting of a cross or lower case t.

These are interesting characters but I believe we are imprinted with the character zero or 0.

consider this...

Philippians 2:6 KJV

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God [zero]:

Comment: I know I am out on a limb here (so to speak) but please give it some thought none the less… responses are welcome.

Peace with God

DrWearWord

Edited November 24, 2008 by DrWearWord

[ckeer]

As I understand tupos it is used in non bible Greek to describe a die or mold. For example the die used to stamp a coin with the head of a ruler is a tupos. The stamped head on the coin is the anti-tupos. Another example is a signet ring or seal used to mark sealing wax on a letter. The seal is the tupos and the mark in the melted wax is the anti-tupos.

I have heard it explained that you can organize prophecies and characters in the old testament as different tupos. For instance Abraham could be the tupos of believing. Thus the Old Testament provides the mold which Christ filled.

And The New Testament of Christ is the tupos by which we are to mold ourselves.

[brideofjc]

I see that Ckeer beat me to the image of the signet ring. Also, when they carved pictures or letters into stone. This was considered to be permanent in their minds, never to be effaced and thus the image or type is created.

[DrWearWord]

I thank the last two posters for their illuminating replies!

I am sorry I may let posts sit for a while before responding and posting. I am like a recovering blogger (alcoholic) that has a relapse every once in a while and then I am days posting blogs again on a binge. Besides this forum is a bit intimidating because I realize I am not just talking to those who have not had the same experience as me but I am talking with those who can actually understand and “nail” me on my sometimes errant doctrines. Some of the other "liberal/conservative" blogs on the net get very insulting as opposed to here where people seem to value each other more before they write rather than after.

I have never been a blogger that can on a daily basis just have a few sips. Either I am blogging steady for days or dry as a bone.

I think it relates to my own biorhythms and phases where I am either not ready to “release”… “receiving” or God is just being silent and giving no revelation so there is nothing to “retain” and incubate on.

…By furthering the logic... then we would be the anti-tupos of God being created in God’s image and not the actual Tupos.

I am reminded of words that have unique character because they sound like the action they perform.

I remember (if I recall correctly) the Greek word for spit is “ptui” a words that sounds like its action.

(Anyone remember what the formal name by which words like that are called?)

So what is the sound of salvation? Trumpets? A big bang? A rushing mighty wind? Is the sound of breathing (inhale and exhale) the sound of Tupos and anti-Tupos?

Is the spirit born without a sound? Would that sound be silence just as zero decibel is likened unto silence?

Edited December 7, 2008 by DrWearWord

[sirguessalot]

i enjoy reading your offerings, dww

you may enjoy this simple artifact

created this the other day...seems to be some kind of type of perspectival compass

(edited to remove the art because i couldnt get it to work...but you can go to my website to see the art)

i feel it relates to a number of your threads and musings

bottomless pit, tupos...you tell me, i guess

i offer it here as another example of a set of 4 "opposing impressions" ...perhaps to help give visual insight to insightful inquiry

in art (and photography)

such as the previous image (what i could call "some holographic enneagramical shadow paradox"),

i have found that radical opposite images (direct inversions) are potentially equally true, good and beautiful

...such as how holding "reality" and "possibility" together provides a certain equilibrium

...as with pot and potter...object and subject...form and formless...one and zero

or, as the above art quartet points out:

...potter, potters, pot, and pots

...subject, subjects, object, objects

...formless, formlesses, form, forms

...zero, zeros, one, ones

as if our, three and two do all become one again

while remaining wholly two three and four and so on

make sense?

(if I recall correctly) the Greek word for spit is “ptui” a words that sounds like its action.

Anyone remember what the formal name by which words like that are called?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoeia Edited December 11, 2008 by sirguessalot

[DrWearWord]

i enjoy reading your offerings, dww

you may enjoy this simple artifact

created this the other day...seems to be some kind of type of perspectival compass

i feel it relates to a number of your threads and musings

bottomless pit, tupos...you tell me, i guess

i offer it here as another example of a set of 4 "opposing impressions" ...perhaps to help give visual insight to insightful inquiry

in art (and photography)

such as the previous image (what i could call "some holographic enneagramical shadow paradox"),

i have found that radical opposite images (direct inversions) are potentially equally true, good and beautiful

...such as how holding "reality" and "possibility" together provides a certain equilibrium

...as with pot and potter...object and subject...form and formless...one and zero

or, as the above art quartet points out:

...potter, potters, pot, and pots

...subject, subjects, object, objects

...formless, formlesses, form, forms

...zero, zeros, one, ones

as if our, three and two do all become one again

while remaining wholly two three and four and so on

make sense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoeia

WOW! GREAT artwork!

GREAT response!

We might also add to the list "here and there"...

For if we are there we are no longer here and if we are here we are no longer there.

:)

Is vanity in the egotistical infinity of the numbers or in the emptiness of zero?

Edited December 10, 2008 by DrWearWord

[DrWearWord]

I keep coming back to this idea of tupos.

Perhaps tupos' purpose is "the words" cipher.

I use the word "cipher" because I just recently learned it is Arabic for the word "zero"...

I define to deCIPHER as: finding meaning within ambiguity.

Let's lay a foundation of logic then go further with this ideal.

A + B = C

Then C - B = A

If A = B and C = A then C = B

Now this all seems logical right?

0 + 1 = 1

A + B = C

A and B are two digits… Two “things” how can two things added together return an answer of 1?

1 + 1 = 2

Yet since zero has no intrinsic value does A even exist?

Then we get to this kind of math.

XX + XY = XX and/or XY

Suddenly linear versus exponential logic, they both have two answers and both are correct?

How can one equation have two answers and both be correct?

Because zero may not be a value but it is still a digit.

So zero can be both zero or one depending on perspective.

There are two beginnings in the word of God.

God in the beginning and in the beginning God

One beginning is when God began time and the other beginning is when humanity became aware of time.

So there are two ways to reason.

One leads to death and one leads to life.

Linear logic seems infinite where exponential logic reaches infinity faster.

Edited December 15, 2008 by DrWearWord

[DrWearWord]

I seem to always strive to go to the source of things to develop an understanding. (first usage)

Let’s consider yin and yang

It takes a linear approach to logic.

First we start with black and white well they seem to be a fair couple.

In tempera black is a combination of all colors where in light, white is a combination of all colors. Yet even in darkness there is light that cannot be perceived by the human eye.

Yet it seems the God of the Bible has a preference and likes light over darkness... This seemingly breaks the yin and yang model.

So even the most rudimentary logic, where white and black work logically but darkness and light do not. Who wants to stumble around in the dark and who would rather be blinded by the light?

Then we have earth and sky, the logic could be made that the sky is nothing but air. But then we realize that the air is made of electrons too.

Then we get to the part where God is light and we cannot determine whether physical “light” is a particle or a wave.

Is light energy or matter, heaven or earth?

And I need to know all of this to know the nature of God? I need to know all of this to know better than to club my neighbor over the head with a big stick?

Perhaps the biblical model is that things are not as black and white.

There is ambiguity and incongruity of thought.

There are mathematical models like Fibonacci, fractal geometry and we witness these models all throughout life and realize that it seems that God does not always calculate life in a linear fashion but has also built within life “other ways” of reasoning.

Then to say that yin and yang also represent good and evil, pleasure and purity, male and female, the sun and the moon etc.

Can these sweeping correlations be made without violating another logical code of reason?

Can male and female really be compared to good and evil? For which sex would be considered darkness, evil or vanity?

Is the devil equal to God does God have a little darkness in him/her?

Thus our tendency to amalgamate zero as one, good as evil, right as wrong… leads to what may be considered erroneous reason.

God is trying to teach us how to count…

In the beginning zero created one…

So we can reason that zero created one, but one was actually two and two made four, then eight, then sixteen, then thirty-two, sixty-four etc..

Edited December 15, 2008 by DrWearWord

[sirguessalot]

We might also add to the list "here and there"...For if we are there we are no longer here and if we are here we are no longer there.

funny...as i type, there is a bottle of australian wine called "woop woop" on my countertop

...which means "neither here nor there"... among other things

which also reminds me of "neti neti," "via negativa," and many other contemplative arts

...

a few chaordic felt-typed-thoughts for this fire:

there seem many theories concepts-maps-models-theologies regarding formlessness

just as there are many practices-disciplines-behaviors-arts-acts regarding formlessness

but ultimately, what both are merely aiming at is beyond both theology and practice

though both help us become accident prone to a direct felt experience of formless awareness

where "being spiritual" was the same as "playing dead"

and "playing dead" was the "milk" of "spiritual discipline"

offering "tastes of eternity" and "heaven" and "nirvana" and "bliss" to come

as some ancients used to say

"die before you die, so that when you die, you will not die"

when zero is no longer a separate concept/object

but felt and experienced as the original and eternal essence of your very self

in which all the other objects are arising (thoughts, dreams, senses, emotions, cells, organs, etc...)

where atheism may be correct about some important facts

but dead wrong about the value of those facts

such was "medicine" for when "medicine" failed

which it so often did/does/will

...

but MERE formless awareness practice can be a trap

(such as with John the Baptist and his disciples, or the ascetics Buddha learned from and then taught)

just as pure science and reason can be a trap (linear, non-linear, and otherwise)

there seems to be many theories concepts maps models theologies regarding formlessness

NOT as the pinnacle of achievement, or graduation

but rather as an eternal GROUND and BEGINNING ...an initiation

of the nondual marriage of both form and formlessness

as well as other opposing notions

...agency and communion

...ascent and descent

...the one and the many

...order and chaos

...absolute and relative

as if formless awareness ("i am zero") acts as "the most fertile soil"

for a much more radically diverse awareness of the abundance, fullness, wholeness (holiness) and unity of form/s

where the inevitability of paradox is no longer experienced as confounding and disturbing...

but as necessary, useful...perhaps even to the point of being liberating and delightful

like the cross, the tao, a number...the symbol is not a map of the territory

...but more of a compass and instrument for navigation...as orienting coordinates

...

i really liked this...

God is trying to teach us how to count…

reminds me of this

Edited December 15, 2008 by sirguessalot

[DrWearWord]

Isaiah 53:2 KJV

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Comment: How can a God with no form cast a self image?

Colossians 1:15 KJV

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Edited December 15, 2008 by DrWearWord

[Tom]

Isaiah 53:2 KJV

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Comment: How can a God with no form cast a self image?

Colossians 1:15 KJV

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

God has no form because God is spirit; so then, the self image God casts is spirit. Therefore, the self image so cast also has no form. How then can it be cast (put into a distinctive form) one might ask. The "stuff," spirit, "liquid," "water of life" that is God is poured forth. It's essence retains its essentially formless essence, but the container that it is poured into (Christ) serves to convey that essence in conventional forms familiar to us spatial/temporal types, so that we can align our antitypset up with the essential design form.

I don't want to start an argument here DrWW, but I think assigning zero to God sets up unnecessarily the dichotomies you spoke of earlier. This happens because the foundations of mathematical systems - like everything else - determine the structural integrity of the direction of that which is built thereon.

Galileo had 2 theories of gravity. What served as the then "academy" of sciences chose one of the theories, and the, IMO, house of cards built thereon over the years confronts us with the dichotomies of wave theory of light vs particle theory, tiny vs large theories of relativity, quantum mechanics, string theory all generating outward to increasingly mathematically complex and increasingly unprovable theories of form. The only absolute that holds true is that they all contradict in part; therefore non is true.

I suggest that had the academy chosen the Galileo's other theory, all apparent dichotomies might never have appeared. All mathematical forms would be essentially simple. Nothing built thereon would be approximate.

But having developed economic systems and supporting philosophies based on an erroneous foundation into which those who rule are absolutely invested, there is no possibility of breaking this erroneous paradigm in any equation derived therein.

I humbly suggest that God is not zero.

The Lord our God is one.

All then follows without dichotomy.

“I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory’,” Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t-- till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’”

“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean-- neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master-- that’s all.”

Hello again, Sirguessalot.

[DrWearWord]

I humbly suggest that God is not zero.

The Lord our God is one.

All then follows without dichotomy.

I humbly differ in opinion. :)

The earth became without form also...

And before man/women were formed they were also formless.

Zero is the seed of all numbers as God is the seed of all that is.

Zero does not just begin outside/before the numbers but it is within the numbers also. 10, 20, 30, 40... 100, 1000, 10,000. All values exist in zero.

If God is not a man how can God be a father? And why don't we have a mother? That is certainly a dichotomy.

"In the beginning" denotes time and with time, the beginning starts at zero.

Even the round clock face is a zero? The zodiac in the heavens which declare God are also a circle or oval. All of the imagery of the zodiac all contained within zero. The earth is a sphere. Zero is the seed of understanding as it is the seed of the spirit. The name of God was not to be uttered. So if God talks to us why doesn’t God tell us his/her name?

So on that logic than if God is one (1), is that not still assigning a value and form to God?

Christ Jesus unites all values in zero. The new birth is zero born within.

Zero is the only value able to create. Zero has a still and small voice. Zero is a seed and zero begins physical time and spiritual time. God was in the beginning with/as zero.

Zoroastrianism is the seed of monotheism.

And the list comparatively goes on.

I dreamed once about eternal life and found something missing, zero. For life needs to become new again or living could become a curse. So I guess it is trusting in zero that zero can provide the newness of life so that eternity is never dull and tediously long.

The zero also explains the trinity. For how could Jesus not rob God of his glory by being equal unless he was equal with zero. Only zero can make the trinity work logically. You cannot rob what is not there. Being equal to zero is oneness with zero.

Isaiah 40:22 KJV

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,

Edited December 29, 2008 by DrWearWord

[sirguessalot]

hello to you, tom. a delight to cross paths again

and thanks for those sacred words of wonderland

and for your rich offerings...

this struck me.. "The only absolute that holds true is that they all contradict in part; therefore non is true."

or perhaps even...

an absolute that seems to hold true is that they all contradict in part, therefore non is ALSO true.

imagine if "God" and "God's view" are at least simply constantly always aready ultimately ALL?

which includes any and all zeronesses and onenesses

so zero can also be seen as one

one can also be seen as zero

and opposites are not as opposite as they seem

motion is not quite motion

stillness is not quite stillness

location is not quite location

and all this emptiness

all this illusion of form

all these contradictions conflicts and paradoxes

that are confounded and compounded and embedded and passed along

are not only seen as simple misunderstandings and misperceptions

but useful as cardinal signs, if you will

orienting coordinates for navigating

all this truth

...in spite of the words

yet because of the words

[sirguessalot]

to add..

i can imagine how both subjective and objective explorations of "zero" and "one"

can be useful as one kind of "alpha and omega"

or "north and south" of life's practices and experiences

such as how...

objectively, zeroness and oneness might be explored through gazing through microscopes, telescopes

and even our visual imagination ..such as when we read or write about God (as a non-it/he/she/object) and spirit and space and math

IT is zero? Is zero an It? What is it?

subjectively, zeroness might be explored through contemplation, meditation, inquiry, therapy, friendship

or any act/non-act of "settling in the witness of zero" as the ground for examining one's own self-sense

I am zero? Am i zero? Who am I?

WE are zero? Are we Zero? Who are we?

in any case, zeroness seems some final step before collapsing into nonduality/unity

not sufficient, but neccesary

but like all steps...we often sit there nearly a lifetime...cultures sit in them for many generations

Edited December 29, 2008 by sirguessalot

[DrWearWord]

Luke 12:51 KJV

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Comment: It this the Prince of Peace?

John 9:39 KJV

And Jesus said , For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see ; and that they which see might be made blind.

Comment:

Jesus Christ healed the blind?

Was Jesus' first miracle to make people go blind?

Did Christ Jesus not blind Saul in the desert?

Were Jesus' first miracles to hide the sacred feminine in the holy spirit and place homosexuality in monastic limbo?

Edited December 30, 2008 by DrWearWord

[DrWearWord]

Tupos has gotten me thinking about the X and Y chromosomes.

Is one a copy of the other, as in Adam's rib?

Well actually the Y chromosome is a partial mutation of the X chromosome.

So the X chromosome would be the tupos because it contains both X and Y, and the Y chromosome would be the anti-tupos.

The Y chromosome that makes men unique compared to women is only a partial and incomplete image of X.

So Y was likely taken from the rib of X. Did "God" create the female first? If God created the female first then God gave that which she is. Over time the X chromosome mutated into Y and changed the human form.

Even in the womb we all start out as females and hormonal changes alter the zygote into a male. So is that not even further indication that, God created "man" in his own image a bit contradictory to present day science?

I am not saying that God is male or female… I am just pointing out that the Bible has made some firm statements that science is not confirming.

After years of persecuting people for sexual identity, we find that the earth is not flat, and the earth is not the center of the universe if it revolves around the sun. That sexual taboos are a natural part of life and that, all women are created equal (then some become men).

Peace with God

:)

Edited December 30, 2008 by DrWearWord

[DrWearWord]

The Lord our God is one.

All then follows without dichotomy.

“I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory’,” Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t-- till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’”

“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean-- neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master-- that’s all.”

Even life is a dichotomy, X and Y chromosomes.

Edited December 31, 2008 by DrWearWord

[DrWearWord]

Seek ye first Zero, and all the other numbers will be added unto you. :)