The stamp, and the small cost of it was not the real issue. Many posters have said so, and explained their reasoning. One poster has ignored these explanations and chooses to cling to a misunderstanding, or perhaps a deliberate mischaracterization.
I disagree many posters explained their reasoning only after first claiming that the cost was an issue
Quote:
"Most of us hardly had enough money to buy lunch."
'That is not an insignificant to a person who is struggling to put food on the table, a roof over his/her head, and trying to get to work every day."
You were saying it was no big deal and I was quantifying the accumulated costs.
Only after I pointed out it was an insignificant amount, and compared to the 10% they were giving every month miniscule, did the reasoning change. Had I not pointed that fact out I'd say the conversation would have continued in the same cost issues as I have quoted. I see no indication that it would not have as it did until I pointed out the meager amount comparatively.
No one has said that they were in misery due to having to pay for postage.
No one said that they missed any meals due to paying for postage.
These statements are either dramatic exaggerations or strawman arguments.
Again I disagree To complain about the cost of a stamp and to in the same breath make statements like.......
"Most of us hardly had enough money to buy lunch."
'That is not an insignificant to a person who is struggling to put food on the table, a roof over his/her head, and trying to get to work every day."
You were saying it was no big deal and I was quantifying the accumulated costs.
......Certainly implies that the stamp was a hardship especially when you parallel it with I had to buy a stamp , and Most of us hardly had enough money to buy lunch.
and 'That is not an insignificant to a person who is struggling [/b]to put food on the table,
it certainly implies that the stamp was the problem that kept them struggling to have food on the table.
I'd say it was a fair statement that struggling to put food on the table or worrying about having money to buy lunch, was misery. You may not think so. call it what you want ,it certainly is not bliss.
The cost was not insignificant ,those are not my words I think there is a direct correlation between the two statements 'That is not insignificant/ to a person who is struggling [/b]to put food on the table, If it was not the cost of the mailing what was? Clearly they linked the cost and putting food on the table ,if one is struggling to do that it certainly is in the realm of a good chance one may miss a meal at some point.
I disagree many posters explained their reasoning only after first claiming that the cost was an issue
Still clinging. <_<
Very few of us here are writers by profession, trained to use their words in a precise and unambiguous manner. We write things that sometimes aren't clear, then go back and clarify.
Most folks accept the clarification, and refrain from telling other posters what they meant, what they were thinking, what their main point was.
Despite the mention of the cost of lunch and all the rest, do you really think that posters are claiming to have literally missed meals and been in misery over a stamp?
Here's a different story that has no connection to twi.
==========================
his story is specifically why people I know thought I should keep writing stuff. It never made it to my list, because I never received any orders governing it.
Early on in my military career, way back when I was a PFC, my Battalion would occasionally have “Fun Runs”. A Fun Run is just like running for several miles. Except that it’s fun. Because people that outrank you say so.
This is pretty much the Army equivalent to declaring “Our office is so much fun! On Friday we get to wear Hawaiian shirts!” It’s awesome if you happen to love Hawaiian shirts, but just kinda sucks if you have taste.
One of the features of the Fun Run was that afterward the Battalion would gather together and hold a pie auction. The point of the pie auction was that if you bought a pie, you could pick any soldier who was present, and hit them with the pie. So as you can imagine, an awful lot of repressed rage got transferred into pie kinetics after these runs. The important thing to know here is that by tradition, the first pie always got thrown at the Battalion Commander.
This whole exercise was to raise money for the Battalion Family Support Group. In theory, this was an organization that would help the families of deployed soldiers manage during the long separations that military life often inflicts. But in reality, FSG was more like a cross between the homeowners association from a sit-com, and a social club for unemployable wives of military officers. And when I say social club, imagine the kind that gets taken down a peg by a scrappy band of misfits in an 80’s comedy movie.
To sum this up: the Family Support Group was not very popular with most of the soldiers.
The night before one of these delightful Fun Runs, I received special instructions.
“Bring in a pie for the auction.”
I’m not sure how much the pay has gone up, but back in those days if a Private First Class had a child he automatically qualified for food stamps. So I didn’t have much money. And most of what I did have was generally earmarked for important things, like strippers and alcohol, and more strippers.
A pie doesn’t cost that much I guess. But it was the principle that bothered me. The Army has billions of dollars and I have barely any. And now they want me to buy stuff for them.
Now technically, it wasn’t an order. It would be against regulations for my supervisor to *order* me to spend my own money on the Family Support Group. It was just, technically, a suggestion. And it’s just peachy to make suggestions. And if soldiers choose not to follow the suggestions, well, someone has to be assigned to that toilet cleaning detail.
So that night, I went out and I bought a premade pie crust. And a tub of Cool Whip. And then I stopped by a Korean grocery store and purchased a whole, frozen squid. And sprinkles.
I got back to the barracks, and started the preparations for the morning. Which pretty much just means I started thawing the squid in a shower stall. My roommate was a bit surprised when he got back.
“Is that a squid in our shower?”
“Yep.”
“What’s it doing in there.”
“Thawing.”
“Goodnight.”
The next morning I packed it all in a cooler, and set out for the Fun Run. After about three miles of fun the Battalion gathered for the auction. I quickly assembled the secret weapon, and added it to the pie table. I then notified the auctioneer about my special pie. Of course she selected my pie for the first auction.
The bidding started fairly briskly, as many people wanted to hit our Commander with a pie. But soon enough bidding started to peter out, and that’s when the auctioneer let everyone in on the secret.
“This is a special pie.”
“What’s so special about it?” called someone in the crowd.
“It’s a squid pie.”
“I beg your pardon?” said the Commander
“I said it’s a squid pie sir.”
“There’s no such thing.”
So she reached in, pulled out a tentacle, and waved at the Commander with it.
“WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?” asked the Commander with, all things considered, a reasonable tone of voice.
“It’s a tentacle sir.”
“PIE DOESN’T HAVE TENTACLES!”
“Normally you’d be correct. But this is a squid pie sir.”
And the bidding immediately picked up again. My pie raised close to five hundred dollars, which was a new record for the pie auction. I didn’t get into any trouble because nobody wanted to look like a bad sport. And I got to watch my CO take a high velocity mollusk to the kisser, which is a good morning no matter what branch of the military you are in.
Good story Wolf, you know, if I'd have been thinking back in the day, I would have done the equivalent of a squid pie, maybe some "Happy Eid" or "Hanukah" stamps on my abundant sharing envelopes.
Hm. Took me a while to get back in and post. Sluggish server on site.
Oh, well.
Now, the reason I posted that story....
(snip)
The night before one of these delightful Fun Runs, I received special instructions.
“Bring in a pie for the auction.”
I’m not sure how much the pay has gone up, but back in those days if a Private First Class had a child he automatically qualified for food stamps. So I didn’t have much money. And most of what I did have was generally earmarked for important things, like strippers and alcohol, and more strippers.
A pie doesn’t cost that much I guess. But it was the principle that bothered me. The Army has billions of dollars and I have barely any. And now they want me to buy stuff for them.
Now technically, it wasn’t an order. It would be against regulations for my supervisor to *order* me to spend my own money on the Family Support Group. It was just, technically, a suggestion. And it’s just peachy to make suggestions. And if soldiers choose not to follow the suggestions, well, someone has to be assigned to that toilet cleaning detail.
(snip)
So, someone might be deliberately or accidentally obtuse and say
"Skippy was annoyed at how much money a pie costs!"
but he was rather clear that wasn't the REAL issue.
You established it just fine , but the problem I'm having now there waysider I'm not sure that you were not misspeaking again as my northern neighbor said, and really mean just the opposite of what you said. I suppose I'll just have to wait to see if you have another clarity issue and change your story again. I just hope no one coughs on me ,so I don't get the clarity virus.
If you don't mind, could you kindly inform me where my presentation lacked clarity?
oh hey you people who served as WOWs! don't forget where the money for class refreshments came from. I don't know if in the earlier days WOWs got any help from local believers, but when I was a WOW we basically had no contact, which meant as well as paying our bills, we were on our own for financing outreach and classes. we absorbed ALL twi business expenses related to their outreach program.
oh hey you people who served as WOWs! don't forget where the money for class refreshments came from. I don't know if in the earlier days WOWs got any help from local believers, but when I was a WOW we basically had no contact, which meant as well as paying our bills, we were on our own for financing outreach and classes. we absorbed ALL twi business expenses related to their outreach program.
Now see this is a good example of a substancial cost that should never have been left to a group of people working part time to pay. Food and drink for several weeks can add up fast compared to the cost of other things, say like a stamp. Good point potato
Now see this is a good example of a substancial cost that should never have been left to a group of people working part time to pay. Food and drink for several weeks can add up fast compared to the cost of other things, say like a stamp. Good point potato
no, it's another example of a cost that should have been counted as a business expense and paid for by twi, along with the cost of stamps and money orders.
oh hey you people who served as WOWs! don't forget where the money for class refreshments came from. I don't know if in the earlier days WOWs got any help from local believers, but when I was a WOW we basically had no contact, which meant as well as paying our bills, we were on our own for financing outreach and classes. we absorbed ALL twi business expenses related to their outreach program.
Our first location for WOW had no believers there we foot the cost of the refreshments for the class... We all pitched in.. and come to think of it One of the guys got chairs from a funeral home... Was that on this thread???
And I remember those chairs.. they were old, decrepid.. some falling apart. rusty.. solid METAL. A real "pleasure" for "gawds' people" to sit in, I'm sure, three hours at a shot..
they were the funeral home's LEFTOVERS.. that for some reason, they didn't throw away..
Now what if we couldn't work up a dozen or chairs from the funeral home? Not many more options, other than RENT.. I wonder WHO would have paid..
this organization was so CHEAPSKATE.. I have a few slurs that would describe them, I won't use them here..
but soooooo CHEAP. "The laborerer is worthy of his hire".. not if they have anything to do with it..
they are like capitalism at it's worst.. the absolute cheapest, underhanded, unethical method to get the lowest cost is the ONLY ethic..
we all seem to be agreeing that the cost of office supplies and certain other operational costs related to it's formal "outreach program" would have been appropriately subsidized by the Way Nash, the recipient of all donations, charges and otherwise collected monies that those outreach programs generated. (cus if it was diverted elsewhere, you were officially designated as "stealing from God" who apparently lived in Shelby County Ohio)
Le'see.....would that include STAMPS?
I say stamps go in that category. Call me crazy, please, but I think stamps would have been included. Looking back. In retrospect. In hindsight. Rear view 20-20, yeah. I would.
we all seem to be agreeing that the cost of office supplies and certain other operational costs related to it's formal "outreach program" would have been appropriately subsidized by the Way Nash, the recipient of all donations, charges and otherwise collected monies that those outreach programs generated. (cus if it was diverted elsewhere, you were officially designated as "stealing from God" who apparently lived in Shelby County Ohio)
Le'see.....would that include STAMPS?
I say stamps go in that category. Call me crazy, please, but I think stamps would have been included. Looking back. In retrospect. In hindsight. Rear view 20-20, yeah. I would.
Hey SOCKS... You, sir, are CRAZY (in a good way :) )!
And from the perspective of an accountant, there's NO question that stamps would rightfully belong in that category.
Doesn't matter if it was a nickel or a dollar, it's the principle of the t'ing right?
He that is faithful in the least will be faithful in much. He that is unfaithfuler in a little will be unfaithfuler in the most.
He that is scrooed in the least wil be scrooed in the much. (translated from the Bohemian version = "coming and going you're getting it where suns aren't shining but the moons are full")
I won't say that I don't forgive you for such an atrocity..
but I'm still trying to spit it all out..
I learned how to cook Beef Heart on the WOW field and I have to say it was pretty tasty... and cheap at that time..
Liver and onions we did too because it was also cheap.. One advantage to living in Montana the Liver is very very fresh.. Tripe is the ICK sorry all you crazy menudo eaters It makes your lips feel wierd.
Thanks, Rocky! I guess that's why I'm committed.
Doesn't matter if it was a nickel or a dollar, it's the principle of the t'ing right?
He that is faithful in the least will be faithful in much. He that is unfaithfuler in a little will be unfaithfuler in the most.
He that is scrooed in the least wil be scrooed in the much. (translated from the Bohemian version = "coming and going you're getting it where suns aren't shining but the moons are full")
Don't try too hard Leafy, it's not worth it, trust me.
"Twigs" were supposedly self-propelled and self-bossing. "In cooperation with the next exofficio level of the Way Tree". This was, in fact, the way it was described for many years.
Exofficio is an interesting term. Applied in the Way it meant another level into the organization, a person who wasn't a full time hire or appointee to that position. Another volunteer, someone who held a position of oversight.
Twig to Branch, usually is as far as that got. Area and higher ranks were generally assigned positions, salaried "staff" of the Way. "Official" positions.
Twigs quickly became non-self-governing when the Way Nash HQ started calling all the shots from the "next official level" in the Way tree. "elders" and "leaders" were appointed to all levels, "self-governing" or not. Classes were on "concurrent" schedules. Class minimums for student sign ups were enforced. Twig Abundant Sharings were reported and monitored. Twig teaching schedules eventually were governed in many areas. Themes and topics cycled through the fellowships at the same time. Fellowship "orders of service" were established to insure that all the right things were being done. Many areas regulated the numbers of times a "twig" was to meet a week. Etc. Etc. Etc.
This gestapo-like "cooperation" was anything but. It was a regulated, governed, restrictive system that weakened trust and promoted egotism.
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waysider
-----------plus the cost of the money order, at a time when the average pay was something like $1.50/hour. But the actual amount is irrelevant. The money collected was supposed to be used to do God'
frank123lol
They(twi) did not CARE how you got the money to them,as long as they got their money,Oh and it better not be late,or you are slothful.You will be reproved,humiliated,marked out.Ok we reproved you,Wher
Tzaia
My memory is that I had more than one corp and WoW person writing me asking for nothing more than stamps, paper, envelopes, and pens. When you don't have much of anything, then stamps are very costly.
WhiteDove
......Certainly implies that the stamp was a hardship especially when you parallel it with I had to buy a stamp , and Most of us hardly had enough money to buy lunch.
and 'That is not an insignificant to a person who is struggling [/b]to put food on the table,
it certainly implies that the stamp was the problem that kept them struggling to have food on the table.
I'd say it was a fair statement that struggling to put food on the table or worrying about having money to buy lunch, was misery. You may not think so. call it what you want ,it certainly is not bliss.
The cost was not insignificant ,those are not my words I think there is a direct correlation between the two statements 'That is not insignificant/ to a person who is struggling [/b]to put food on the table, If it was not the cost of the mailing what was? Clearly they linked the cost and putting food on the table ,if one is struggling to do that it certainly is in the realm of a good chance one may miss a meal at some point.
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Oakspear
Very few of us here are writers by profession, trained to use their words in a precise and unambiguous manner. We write things that sometimes aren't clear, then go back and clarify.
Most folks accept the clarification, and refrain from telling other posters what they meant, what they were thinking, what their main point was.
Despite the mention of the cost of lunch and all the rest, do you really think that posters are claiming to have literally missed meals and been in misery over a stamp?
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WordWolf
Here's a different story that has no connection to twi.
==========================
his story is specifically why people I know thought I should keep writing stuff. It never made it to my list, because I never received any orders governing it.
Early on in my military career, way back when I was a PFC, my Battalion would occasionally have “Fun Runs”. A Fun Run is just like running for several miles. Except that it’s fun. Because people that outrank you say so.
This is pretty much the Army equivalent to declaring “Our office is so much fun! On Friday we get to wear Hawaiian shirts!” It’s awesome if you happen to love Hawaiian shirts, but just kinda sucks if you have taste.
One of the features of the Fun Run was that afterward the Battalion would gather together and hold a pie auction. The point of the pie auction was that if you bought a pie, you could pick any soldier who was present, and hit them with the pie. So as you can imagine, an awful lot of repressed rage got transferred into pie kinetics after these runs. The important thing to know here is that by tradition, the first pie always got thrown at the Battalion Commander.
This whole exercise was to raise money for the Battalion Family Support Group. In theory, this was an organization that would help the families of deployed soldiers manage during the long separations that military life often inflicts. But in reality, FSG was more like a cross between the homeowners association from a sit-com, and a social club for unemployable wives of military officers. And when I say social club, imagine the kind that gets taken down a peg by a scrappy band of misfits in an 80’s comedy movie.
To sum this up: the Family Support Group was not very popular with most of the soldiers.
The night before one of these delightful Fun Runs, I received special instructions.
“Bring in a pie for the auction.”
I’m not sure how much the pay has gone up, but back in those days if a Private First Class had a child he automatically qualified for food stamps. So I didn’t have much money. And most of what I did have was generally earmarked for important things, like strippers and alcohol, and more strippers.
A pie doesn’t cost that much I guess. But it was the principle that bothered me. The Army has billions of dollars and I have barely any. And now they want me to buy stuff for them.
Now technically, it wasn’t an order. It would be against regulations for my supervisor to *order* me to spend my own money on the Family Support Group. It was just, technically, a suggestion. And it’s just peachy to make suggestions. And if soldiers choose not to follow the suggestions, well, someone has to be assigned to that toilet cleaning detail.
So that night, I went out and I bought a premade pie crust. And a tub of Cool Whip. And then I stopped by a Korean grocery store and purchased a whole, frozen squid. And sprinkles.
I got back to the barracks, and started the preparations for the morning. Which pretty much just means I started thawing the squid in a shower stall. My roommate was a bit surprised when he got back.
“Is that a squid in our shower?”
“Yep.”
“What’s it doing in there.”
“Thawing.”
“Goodnight.”
The next morning I packed it all in a cooler, and set out for the Fun Run. After about three miles of fun the Battalion gathered for the auction. I quickly assembled the secret weapon, and added it to the pie table. I then notified the auctioneer about my special pie. Of course she selected my pie for the first auction.
The bidding started fairly briskly, as many people wanted to hit our Commander with a pie. But soon enough bidding started to peter out, and that’s when the auctioneer let everyone in on the secret.
“This is a special pie.”
“What’s so special about it?” called someone in the crowd.
“It’s a squid pie.”
“I beg your pardon?” said the Commander
“I said it’s a squid pie sir.”
“There’s no such thing.”
So she reached in, pulled out a tentacle, and waved at the Commander with it.
“WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?” asked the Commander with, all things considered, a reasonable tone of voice.
“It’s a tentacle sir.”
“PIE DOESN’T HAVE TENTACLES!”
“Normally you’d be correct. But this is a squid pie sir.”
And the bidding immediately picked up again. My pie raised close to five hundred dollars, which was a new record for the pie auction. I didn’t get into any trouble because nobody wanted to look like a bad sport. And I got to watch my CO take a high velocity mollusk to the kisser, which is a good morning no matter what branch of the military you are in.
==================================
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Oakspear
Good story Wolf, you know, if I'd have been thinking back in the day, I would have done the equivalent of a squid pie, maybe some "Happy Eid" or "Hanukah" stamps on my abundant sharing envelopes.
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WordWolf
Hm. Took me a while to get back in and post. Sluggish server on site.
Oh, well.
Now, the reason I posted that story....
So, someone might be deliberately or accidentally obtuse and say
"Skippy was annoyed at how much money a pie costs!"
but he was rather clear that wasn't the REAL issue.
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leafytwiglet
Thank You for that story Wordwolf it really gets to the heart of what everyone was trying to say. :)
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Rocky
Or sinfully prideful.
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Oakspear
...or even pridefully sinfull :o
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leafytwiglet
Now then can't we all pull up a cup of coffee and move on to a new subject.
holds out chocolate cookies as a peace offering.
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Rocky
You're feeding him...
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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potato
oh hey you people who served as WOWs! don't forget where the money for class refreshments came from. I don't know if in the earlier days WOWs got any help from local believers, but when I was a WOW we basically had no contact, which meant as well as paying our bills, we were on our own for financing outreach and classes. we absorbed ALL twi business expenses related to their outreach program.
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WhiteDove
Now see this is a good example of a substancial cost that should never have been left to a group of people working part time to pay. Food and drink for several weeks can add up fast compared to the cost of other things, say like a stamp. Good point potato
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potato
no, it's another example of a cost that should have been counted as a business expense and paid for by twi, along with the cost of stamps and money orders.
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leafytwiglet
Our first location for WOW had no believers there we foot the cost of the refreshments for the class... We all pitched in.. and come to think of it One of the guys got chairs from a funeral home... Was that on this thread???
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Ham
Umm, yes..
And I remember those chairs.. they were old, decrepid.. some falling apart. rusty.. solid METAL. A real "pleasure" for "gawds' people" to sit in, I'm sure, three hours at a shot..
they were the funeral home's LEFTOVERS.. that for some reason, they didn't throw away..
Now what if we couldn't work up a dozen or chairs from the funeral home? Not many more options, other than RENT.. I wonder WHO would have paid..
this organization was so CHEAPSKATE.. I have a few slurs that would describe them, I won't use them here..
but soooooo CHEAP. "The laborerer is worthy of his hire".. not if they have anything to do with it..
they are like capitalism at it's worst.. the absolute cheapest, underhanded, unethical method to get the lowest cost is the ONLY ethic..
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leafytwiglet
Ham were you Corps and WOW or just WOW....
and did you eat Baloney and peanut butter sandwiches too??? Ahh the glory days of WOW.
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Ham
Just a wow..
yep.. a diet of balogna, peanut butter. and once the "chef" brought home tripe.
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socks
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo,
we all seem to be agreeing that the cost of office supplies and certain other operational costs related to it's formal "outreach program" would have been appropriately subsidized by the Way Nash, the recipient of all donations, charges and otherwise collected monies that those outreach programs generated. (cus if it was diverted elsewhere, you were officially designated as "stealing from God" who apparently lived in Shelby County Ohio)
Le'see.....would that include STAMPS?
I say stamps go in that category. Call me crazy, please, but I think stamps would have been included. Looking back. In retrospect. In hindsight. Rear view 20-20, yeah. I would.
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Rocky
Hey SOCKS... You, sir, are CRAZY (in a good way :) )!
And from the perspective of an accountant, there's NO question that stamps would rightfully belong in that category.
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Ham
and if you are reading, dear "chef"..
I won't say that I don't forgive you for such an atrocity..
but I'm still trying to spit it all out..
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socks
Thanks, Rocky! I guess that's why I'm
committed.
Doesn't matter if it was a nickel or a dollar, it's the principle of the t'ing right?
He that is faithful in the least will be faithful in much. He that is unfaithfuler in a little will be unfaithfuler in the most.
He that is scrooed in the least wil be scrooed in the much. (translated from the Bohemian version = "coming and going you're getting it where suns aren't shining but the moons are full")
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leafytwiglet
I learned how to cook Beef Heart on the WOW field and I have to say it was pretty tasty... and cheap at that time..
Liver and onions we did too because it was also cheap.. One advantage to living in Montana the Liver is very very fresh.. Tripe is the ICK sorry all you crazy menudo eaters It makes your lips feel wierd.
:blink:
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socks
Don't try too hard Leafy, it's not worth it, trust me.
"Twigs" were supposedly self-propelled and self-bossing. "In cooperation with the next exofficio level of the Way Tree". This was, in fact, the way it was described for many years.
Exofficio is an interesting term. Applied in the Way it meant another level into the organization, a person who wasn't a full time hire or appointee to that position. Another volunteer, someone who held a position of oversight.
Twig to Branch, usually is as far as that got. Area and higher ranks were generally assigned positions, salaried "staff" of the Way. "Official" positions.
Twigs quickly became non-self-governing when the Way Nash HQ started calling all the shots from the "next official level" in the Way tree. "elders" and "leaders" were appointed to all levels, "self-governing" or not. Classes were on "concurrent" schedules. Class minimums for student sign ups were enforced. Twig Abundant Sharings were reported and monitored. Twig teaching schedules eventually were governed in many areas. Themes and topics cycled through the fellowships at the same time. Fellowship "orders of service" were established to insure that all the right things were being done. Many areas regulated the numbers of times a "twig" was to meet a week. Etc. Etc. Etc.
This gestapo-like "cooperation" was anything but. It was a regulated, governed, restrictive system that weakened trust and promoted egotism.
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