Wow, what a find, it looks like they are heavily invested, + $21 million, in Money Market funds, they must be hurting now if they hadn't pulled out before Sept. this year. Â
Looks like they are showing a loss for 2007? Â Maybe some of the better number crunchers here can affirm that...interesting stuff, I wonder how much money twi made at their height in the '80's? Â
It looks like all corporations doing business in AZ have to file these disclosures.
Go to the Corporate Records tab and click on Information on Active Corporations, type in Way International at the top where it says search, The Way Int'l will come up at the top, click on that and there will be the records filed since 1983, and docs for the last 12 years accessible.
Same goes for The Way of Canada. The information is there because all non-profit organizations in Canada have to file this information to keep their status.
Last I checked.......The Way of Canada has some three million dollars in assets, accounts. And, Rosie and Roger and Jean-Yves are the director signatures on the forms.
I can barely read the information (bad eyesight plus I don't understand accounting). does it give numbers for ABS, and does anyone know how many people were on payroll for that fiscal year?
Could somebody please tell me why the address is given as being in Phoenix, AZ? What's that got to do with being in Ohio?
Does this statement also account for assets held at Gunnison and Indiana?
To the best of my understanding, Camp Gunnison Inc. is a completely separate NPC from The Way International Inc. So this financial statement would not account for the holdings and assets of Gunnison Inc.
The only thing Camp Gunnison Inc. and The Way Internalional Inc share in common is that Rosalie Rivenbark serves as president of both of these corporations.
they have a column for camp gunnison on their financial statement but it sure doesn't look like the assets are on there. I wonder what camp gunnison does if it's not part of twi? is it just a vacation property now?
a few years ago they let people come in about once a month, and they appeared to treat it as if it's part of twi proper, not a separate corporation. if it's separate, it must be a big money-loser at this point.
Could somebody please tell me why the address is given as being in Phoenix, AZ? What's that got to do with being in Ohio?
Does this statement also account for assets held at Gunnison and Indiana?
The combined balance sheet does show the value of assets related to Gunnison broken out seperately. Indiana is NOT shown. Didn't they sell off the Rome City property?
Headquarters, The Way of the USA, International Outreach and Gunnison are each shown seperately then combined on that combined balance sheet.
My interpretation, without additional detail from their records, would be that any properties (in the US) owned outsite of New Knoxville (like maybe houses in Cedar Rapids or Toledo, etc) would be in the Way of the USA (except for Gunnison), any in Canada or any other country would be in the International Outreach.
This filing with the Arizona Corporation Commission does NOT include a statement of revenue and expenditures/expenses. So, there is no way to clearly identify what they took in by way of ABS.
It shows accrued payroll (a liability) and accrued pension liability, but no detail as to how many people are involved in those aggregate amounts.
Gunnison assets ARE included with a book value (it's very difficult to read, so this is only approximate) of $3.4 million (net of accumulated depreciation on buildings, equipment and machinery).
they have a column for camp gunnison on their financial statement but it sure doesn't look like the assets are on there.
Perhaps you were looking only at the CURRENT assets, which total approx $68K. Long term assets (for Gunnison) are listed at $3,430,247.06.
I wonder what those assets are? that seems too low to include land and improvments unless they're insanely undervalued.
It's net of accumulated depreciation. Accumulated depreciation is listed on that statement, for Gunnison, at what appears to be about $6.94 million. Accum Depr is a way to expense the cost of an asset over its useful life. It doesn't apply to land, but does apply to buildings, machinery and equipment.
Net asset (book) value does not necessarily reflect current or fair market value (FMV), which would only show up on the financial statements when a transaction (sale of the property, for example) were to take place.
The Way Credit Union looks like it's not loaning any money, and is only being used as a depository, although it looks like they are investing their assests somewhere. Â Bankrate.com lists them as 3 star rating out of 5 stars for stability, indicates no loan activity at all, and with $11,335,000.00 in assests.
Here is a free data base for anyone that wants to look up the way international in any state from a central starting point. Â Although you could google eitheir Corporate Commission or Secretary of State for each state and find the same info too.
Aside from the credit union, from reviewing the Arizona docs on their website, it looks like twi as a corporation wasn't doing too much investing of assests while D*n Wierw*lle was alive, but they are now.
From Ohio's docs it looks like Rosie has submitted new legal docs in an effort to make twi more like a regular corporate entity wich looks like it reigns in the old skimming off the top financially by the sticky fingered BOD.
The Way Credit Union looks like it's not loaning any money, and is only being used as a depository, although it looks like they are investing their assests somewhere. Bankrate.com lists them as 3 star rating out of 5 stars for stability, indicates no loan activity at all, and with $11,335,000.00 in assests.
Here is a free data base for anyone that wants to look up the way international in any state from a central starting point. Although you could google eitheir Corporate Commission or Secretary of State for each state and find the same info too.
Aside from the credit union, from reviewing the Arizona docs on their website, it looks like twi as a corporation wasn't doing too much investing of assests while D*n Wierw*lle was alive, but they are now.
From Ohio's docs it looks like Rosie has submitted new legal docs in an effort to make twi more like a regular corporate entity wich looks like it reigns in the old skimming off the top financially by the sticky fingered BOD.
Loans ARE assets on the financial statements of a credit union.
For the borrower, a loan is a liability. For the lender, the loan is an asset.
Accounting definition of an asset is something used in a business to generate revenue. Loans, for credit unions generate interest income.
But the financial statement subject to this thread discussion does not show any credit union activity. However, some of the temporary investments might include deposits in the credit union.
Btw, from the perspective of a credit union, deposits represent liabilities.
Rocky, not according to this doc that Goey posted in another thread, enter 66066 for the Charter Number then click FIND at the top, it appears to show no loan activity, they aren't and haven't given any loans at all in the recent past.
Rocky, not according to this doc that Goey posted in another thread, enter 66066 for the Charter Number then click FIND at the top, it appears to show no loan activity, they aren't and haven't given any loans at all in the recent past.
they have a column for camp gunnison on their financial statement but it sure doesn't look like the assets are on there. I wonder what camp gunnison does if it's not part of twi? is it just a vacation property now?
a few years ago they let people come in about once a month, and they appeared to treat it as if it's part of twi proper, not a separate corporation. if it's separate, it must be a big money-loser at this point.
It's controlled by TWI, the status of being a separate corporation is just on paper. They never revealed, when I was in, that Gunnison was a separate corporation.
Thanks for the info Rocky, , sounds like you know a thing or two about the subject, I wonder why they aren't interested in giving loans?  Is it compliance with the no debt stance of the ministry, or is it a no service stance from the CU?
According to Gunnison County Records, two different parcels are separately owned.
Camp Gunnison Inc. is the owner of a 5.5 acre property valued at just under $448,000 in 2007. for the 3 previous years it was $267,000
The property is tax exempt and the owner address is Box 328, NK, Ohio. This property has a 2000 sqft house effectively bult in 1981 with an attached garage, a shed and a barn.
Way International owns the other property. If you search, put Way International without "The". It took me awhile to find it trying other versions of names. The address is Legal Department, Box 328......
This property is 129.59 acres and is valued at $4,497,090 up from 3.2 million in 2006. This is the total of $1.654 million for the land and $2.842 million in improvements. Their numerous buildings are listed there. The photo of the Family Commons is taken from a newspaper article. The property is also listed as exempt from taxes. The figure for the improvements seems low to me, but since it is exempt I doubt if the assessor bothers with it much. The land seems about correct.
Thanks for the info Rocky, , sounds like you know a thing or two about the subject, I wonder why they aren't interested in giving loans? Is it compliance with the no debt stance of the ministry, or is it a no service stance from the CU?
I sorta went to college to learn about accounting... but last worked in the field (as an accountant) 10 years ago.
And it's been much longer since I've had any contact with twi, so there's no chance I have any insight as to why they aren't loaning money to their 1000+ (credit union) members (according to the credit union statement).
According to Gunnison County Records, two different parcels are separately owned.
Camp Gunnison Inc. is the owner of a 5.5 acre property valued at just under $448,000 in 2007. The 3 previous years it was $267,000
The property is tax exempt and the owner address is Box 328, NK, Ohio. This property has a 2000 sqft house effectively bult in 1981 with an attached garage, a shed and a barn.
Way International owns the other property. If you search, put Way international without "The". It took me awhile to find it trying other versions of names. The address is Legal Department, Box 328......
This property is 129.59 acres and is valued at $4,497,090 up from 3.2 million in 2006. This is the total of $1.654 miilion for the land and $2.842 million in improvements. Their numerous buildings are listed there. The photo of the Family Commons is taken from a newspaper article. The property is also listed as exempt from taxes.
~HAP
And nobody should be alarmed that the county records do not agree (in the value) with that shown on the combined balance sheet filed with the Arizona Corporation Commission. The purpose of the county records is to value them for calculation of property taxes (if not exempt) and the balance sheet reflects cost less accumulated depreciation (as previously noted, for the buildings, equipment and machinery, but NOT on the land).
And it's been much longer since I've had any contact with twi, so there's no chance I have any insight as to why they aren't loaning money to their 1000+ (credit union) members (according to the credit union statement).
You mean beyond the notion that they don't believe in loans or credit?
I'm thinking that the "no loans" policy was put in place at the credit union when the "no debt" policy hit. Prior to that they were loaning money quite readily. After that, it was just the mandatory bank for all twi employees.
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waysider
-----------plus the cost of the money order, at a time when the average pay was something like $1.50/hour. But the actual amount is irrelevant. The money collected was supposed to be used to do God'
frank123lol
They(twi) did not CARE how you got the money to them,as long as they got their money,Oh and it better not be late,or you are slothful.You will be reproved,humiliated,marked out.Ok we reproved you,Wher
Tzaia
My memory is that I had more than one corp and WoW person writing me asking for nothing more than stamps, paper, envelopes, and pens. When you don't have much of anything, then stamps are very costly.
now I see
Wow, what a find, it looks like they are heavily invested, + $21 million, in Money Market funds, they must be hurting now if they hadn't pulled out before Sept. this year. Â
Looks like they are showing a loss for 2007? Â Maybe some of the better number crunchers here can affirm that...interesting stuff, I wonder how much money twi made at their height in the '80's? Â
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Twinky
Could somebody please tell me why the address is given as being in Phoenix, AZ? What's that got to do with being in Ohio?
Does this statement also account for assets held at Gunnison and Indiana?
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now I see
Twinky, from what I can see, if you follow these links below, you'll be able to find those answers.
http://www.cc.state.az.us/
It looks like all corporations doing business in AZ have to file these disclosures.
Go to the Corporate Records tab and click on Information on Active Corporations, type in Way International at the top where it says search, The Way Int'l will come up at the top, click on that and there will be the records filed since 1983, and docs for the last 12 years accessible.
It's amazing this info is there...Who knew?
Thanks Goey.
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Ham
isn't it interesting that we likely know far more about twi's financial comings and goings than any regular "follower"..
it's far more than I EVER saw You'd think they'd play nice and just hand out a financial statement.. but no.
you have to get "possessed" on the "evil internet" to get the information..
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WhiteDove
Here are some more locations as well.
D & B
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skyrider
Same goes for The Way of Canada. The information is there because all non-profit organizations in Canada have to file this information to keep their status.
Last I checked.......The Way of Canada has some three million dollars in assets, accounts. And, Rosie and Roger and Jean-Yves are the director signatures on the forms.
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potato
I can barely read the information (bad eyesight plus I don't understand accounting). does it give numbers for ABS, and does anyone know how many people were on payroll for that fiscal year?
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Goey
To the best of my understanding, Camp Gunnison Inc. is a completely separate NPC from The Way International Inc. So this financial statement would not account for the holdings and assets of Gunnison Inc.
The only thing Camp Gunnison Inc. and The Way Internalional Inc share in common is that Rosalie Rivenbark serves as president of both of these corporations.
Camp Gunnison Inc
Also consider that there is over 10 mllion dollars in shares and deposits in The Way Credit Union, which is probably booty from ABS.
The Way Credit Union
Cheers
Edited by Goey
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Rocky
To find out what each listing at the Dun and Bradstreet site means, one would have to pay money to look at the reports...
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potato
they have a column for camp gunnison on their financial statement but it sure doesn't look like the assets are on there. I wonder what camp gunnison does if it's not part of twi? is it just a vacation property now?
a few years ago they let people come in about once a month, and they appeared to treat it as if it's part of twi proper, not a separate corporation. if it's separate, it must be a big money-loser at this point.
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Rocky
The combined balance sheet does show the value of assets related to Gunnison broken out seperately. Indiana is NOT shown. Didn't they sell off the Rome City property?
Headquarters, The Way of the USA, International Outreach and Gunnison are each shown seperately then combined on that combined balance sheet.
My interpretation, without additional detail from their records, would be that any properties (in the US) owned outsite of New Knoxville (like maybe houses in Cedar Rapids or Toledo, etc) would be in the Way of the USA (except for Gunnison), any in Canada or any other country would be in the International Outreach.
This filing with the Arizona Corporation Commission does NOT include a statement of revenue and expenditures/expenses. So, there is no way to clearly identify what they took in by way of ABS.
It shows accrued payroll (a liability) and accrued pension liability, but no detail as to how many people are involved in those aggregate amounts.
Gunnison assets ARE included with a book value (it's very difficult to read, so this is only approximate) of $3.4 million (net of accumulated depreciation on buildings, equipment and machinery).
Perhaps you were looking only at the CURRENT assets, which total approx $68K. Long term assets (for Gunnison) are listed at $3,430,247.06.
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potato
I wonder what those assets are? that seems too low to include land and improvments unless they're insanely undervalued.
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Rocky
It's net of accumulated depreciation. Accumulated depreciation is listed on that statement, for Gunnison, at what appears to be about $6.94 million. Accum Depr is a way to expense the cost of an asset over its useful life. It doesn't apply to land, but does apply to buildings, machinery and equipment.
Net asset (book) value does not necessarily reflect current or fair market value (FMV), which would only show up on the financial statements when a transaction (sale of the property, for example) were to take place.
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now I see
The Way Credit Union looks like it's not loaning any money, and is only being used as a depository, although it looks like they are investing their assests somewhere. Â Bankrate.com lists them as 3 star rating out of 5 stars for stability, indicates no loan activity at all, and with $11,335,000.00 in assests.
Here is a free data base for anyone that wants to look up the way international in any state from a central starting point. Â Although you could google eitheir Corporate Commission or Secretary of State for each state and find the same info too.
http://soswy.state.wy.us/Business/Business50.aspx
Aside from the credit union, from reviewing the Arizona docs on their website, it looks like twi as a corporation wasn't doing too much investing of assests while D*n Wierw*lle was alive, but they are now.
From Ohio's docs it looks like Rosie has submitted new legal docs in an effort to make twi more like a regular corporate entity wich looks like it reigns in the old skimming off the top financially by the sticky fingered BOD.
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/rwserv...in=200719000720
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Rocky
Loans ARE assets on the financial statements of a credit union.
For the borrower, a loan is a liability. For the lender, the loan is an asset.
Accounting definition of an asset is something used in a business to generate revenue. Loans, for credit unions generate interest income.
But the financial statement subject to this thread discussion does not show any credit union activity. However, some of the temporary investments might include deposits in the credit union.
Btw, from the perspective of a credit union, deposits represent liabilities.
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now I see
Rocky, not according to this doc that Goey posted in another thread, enter 66066 for the Charter Number then click FIND at the top, it appears to show no loan activity, they aren't and haven't given any loans at all in the recent past.
http://www.ncua.gov/indexdata.html
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Rocky
Yes... I see that. The bulk of their assets are in other securities...
Loans WOULD still be assets, if they did that.
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Oakspear
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now I see
Thanks for the info Rocky,Â
, sounds like you know a thing or two about the subject, I wonder why they aren't interested in giving loans? Â Is it compliance with the no debt stance of the ministry, or is it a no service stance from the CU?
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HAPe4me
According to Gunnison County Records, two different parcels are separately owned.
Camp Gunnison Inc. is the owner of a 5.5 acre property valued at just under $448,000 in 2007. for the 3 previous years it was $267,000
The property is tax exempt and the owner address is Box 328, NK, Ohio. This property has a 2000 sqft house effectively bult in 1981 with an attached garage, a shed and a barn.
Way International owns the other property. If you search, put Way International without "The". It took me awhile to find it trying other versions of names. The address is Legal Department, Box 328......
This property is 129.59 acres and is valued at $4,497,090 up from 3.2 million in 2006. This is the total of $1.654 million for the land and $2.842 million in improvements. Their numerous buildings are listed there. The photo of the Family Commons is taken from a newspaper article. The property is also listed as exempt from taxes. The figure for the improvements seems low to me, but since it is exempt I doubt if the assessor bothers with it much. The land seems about correct.
~HAP
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Rocky
I sorta went to college to learn about accounting...
but last worked in the field (as an accountant) 10 years ago.
And it's been much longer since I've had any contact with twi, so there's no chance I have any insight as to why they aren't loaning money to their 1000+ (credit union) members (according to the credit union statement).
And nobody should be alarmed that the county records do not agree (in the value) with that shown on the combined balance sheet filed with the Arizona Corporation Commission. The purpose of the county records is to value them for calculation of property taxes (if not exempt) and the balance sheet reflects cost less accumulated depreciation (as previously noted, for the buildings, equipment and machinery, but NOT on the land).
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Tzaia
You mean beyond the notion that they don't believe in loans or credit?
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TheHighWay
I'm thinking that the "no loans" policy was put in place at the credit union when the "no debt" policy hit. Prior to that they were loaning money quite readily. After that, it was just the mandatory bank for all twi employees.
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Rocky
Well, I suppose... but I was thinking that insight was someone else's, since I never had to deal with it while I was still involved with them...
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