please excuse me if this site is not for advice or assistance.
javajivey
This site is absolutely a great place for advice and assistance.
I haven't been to a twig since 1990.
I can't see, though, how much could have changed considering they are still promoting the same bogus doctrines, such as "The Law of Believing", "tithing and ABS", "The One True Household/Hedge Of Protection",the devil spirit mumbo-jumbo from the Advanced Class and so on. And, much of the top leadership is comprised of people who were, not only privy to the corruption that has been exposed, but facilitated it and continue to cover it up. But, hey, maybe they got new song books or something. I don't know. And there are some "innies" who visit here pretty regularly who can update you on the current state of affairs.
If your friends are Advance Class grads, you might want to ask them if they can solve the dilemma that surrounds the circumstances of VPW's death from cancer and his chronic, severe addiction to alcohol. (See death certificate shown on this site.)
Maybe they are just in the dark about what really happened. I know I was when I stumbled in here 2 years ago. They are fortunate to have a friend, such as yourself, who has stuck with them through the years.
She was all excited. She said that the Way is all better now and it's not like it used to be, with leaders acting like they are God and that everybody in her fellowship is so nice.
THanks! ANd also please excuse me if this site is not for advice or assistance.
I don't think you need to be excused.
There were changes in the daily life of the "ordinary believer" over the years, such life becoming more controlled. I have no argument to make that life cant be loosened back up, and that the leaders she has contact with are OK, and that the people in fellowships are nice.
One thing (and only one) for me to check things out would be, could I take a trip to HQ and walk around freely, not being eyed with suspicion, as I did as late as 1976?
However, more importantly, while many people were living such a nice fellowship life back in the 60s and 70s, there was a lot going on higher up that we didn't know about. Kristen Skedgell's book provides a fine (but only one) example. Her book of course would not prove anything about right now, nor would any book I think, but my big question (I'm sure others will chime in with theirs) would be, are wrongs being admitted and acknowledged? Or, is life going on 1984 style, pretending nothing really bad happened?
Remember everyone, we are dealing with someone who went back in. When they left, did they know the worst of what went on?
I have to go along with Waysider and LiftedUp as far as TWI goes.
I can understand your friends excitement because they think that the problems have been remedied and that things will now be good. Heck, who wouldn't want that. Bad gone, good now; it is basic human nature to be excited if that really happens in any situation IMO.
But I wonder if your friends would reconsider if they realized that the ones that they choose to trust are still completely unaccountable for their part in TWI sins and have never, ever openly confessed their part in things. How could such leaders do any more than pretend to lead people to a place where a healthy dose of reality is part of the fellowship?
Such leaders will not be able to help folks deal with their problems, they still are completely incapable of dealing with TWI history and their part in it honestly. I think the biblical prognosis will be that they all go into the ditch.
But I'm hoping that you will be able to deal with it if they will not hear you.?
Javajivey - some folks have a romantacized memory of their time in twi. They may have been chasing this dream for a long time and now they think they've found it. You said it yourself in another thread:
The most chilling part of the story for me was the end, when they intered former followers, asking them if they still thought the group was a good idea. A few of them said yeah.
If they are trying to re-live the good old days - well hopefully this ride will be shorter for them.
Are you trying to keep them from re-joining the cult? Or do you want to know what to do so you don't lose these friends?
Many people leave TWI, without TWI every really leaving them.
If, upon leaving TWI, one believes that it was the place that "the Word was taught like it hadn't been since the First Century", but that people like Martindale screwed it up, then I can see where today's TWI might look appealing.
To fully leave TWI behind one has to see that the problems were systemic and not just the result of some rogues.
I too have a friend in another state, who goes to a geerite fellowship, who absolutely will not leave, even though she knows about vp. Â She actually thinks I'm the one who'se copped out since I'm not involved in any offshoot! Â
She started doing her own fellowship a few years back when she was in an area that had some pretty screwed up fellowship coordinators, but now since she's moved to a new area, and likes the people in the fellowship she goes to, they're young and active in recruiting, she won't leave. Â She has a need to belong and a need to be right. Â It would take a lot of self examination for her to determine what she's dedicated herself and her family to for the past 20 years, is a bunch of bunk. Â I don't think she wants to go there, and she is quite resistant to hearing about anything contradictory to what she already believes. Â
As with most people, unless something bad or horrific happens to them personally, they don't change their perceived loyalties very easily. Â It is very hard to be objective when it deals with friendships and biblical belief systems.
If twi hadn't turned on me in the 80's I don't know how long it would have been till I figured it out, or ran across someone who could enlighten me. Â
What is the basis of the loyalty of your friends to twi, is it the people, the doctrine, the deliverance they had when they were new, is it the need to belong to something that they're comfortable with? Â Determining why they're there might hold the key to where you can help them find the way out. Â
If their only concern was how they were treated by Way people locally and they like what's being taught, and now the people locally they're seeing treat them well - I don't know the answer to the question. I don't see how anyone could swallow what they're teaching but some do, no question about it.
If as they say things are hunky dunky now in the Way, I would think that would include normal relationships with those that aren't members. Again, that should be a matter of choice, where a person's beliefs inform how they interact with others as they choose.
As close friends, your friendship must have been based on other things than your affiliation with the Way and your religious beliefs. Since you've been friends since leaving I'd assume there were other things bonding you. Is that correct to assume?
Can you both choose to be friends even while you disagree on this? It may or may not be possible or it may not even be the right thing to do. I think you both have to make that decision for yourselves.
How to change their minds? Can't say. Whatever it is that's drawn them "back" must be important. Whatever draws them away would have to be too.
javajivey, I think I recognize your form of writing. Are you the same one and only as 2 other newbies on this site? Bless you dear darling. I loves ya!!! No matters. Let us keep one and another thinking...
javajivey, I think I recognize your form of writing. Are you the same one and only as 2 other newbies on this site? Bless you dear darling. I loves ya!!! No matters. Let us keep one and another thinking...
Newbieon the site? I was on this site a couple years ago..I first took the class in 1979 and did WOW the year VP died. Stopped going to TWI in 1987 and hung out until 1996 with an offshoot here in town. Have been free since 1996.
Golly THANK YOU all for your responses. Lots for me to think about! In no particular order, here are some answers to your questions: Did my friend and her hubby know the worst of TWI junk? Nope.
Do they have a need to belong, yes. There was this charlatan/manipulative guy in their town who they fellowshiped with (not TWI but offshoot) for several years. They finally soured on him (duh, I tried to tell her for years!) after they got into a disastrous "own a business" thing with him.
One of you really pegged it when you said TWI never realy left them. Over the years, some of the Wayspeak she still used used to drive me nuts. Usually I kept my mouth shut but in the same phone call wherein she announced their new return to TWI, I stopped her when she said "out in the world." I said "Where are you now?" "Oh at home." "No,I mean where are you??" She finally got my point, but then she said "You know what I mean, away from the safety and security of your home....working out there..." I wanted to gag. THat mentality of us-versus-them!!!
I will suggest they go to the web site, and to try and visit HQ. They live too far away to just drive over to HQ quickly, but they can check out the site. I take it there is some amusing stuff on there!
THe fact that the web site is NOT transparent, is NOT open to public comment or response and is NOT even selling this "great" books is enough for me. Unfortunately I doubit it's enough for them...
Well I am a very glad you all don't mind assisting/listening to this.
fortunately, i don't have to worry, because i have no friends
I love you, excie. I know we're not friends but I am eternally thankful you're here because you're one of the people who helped me get out of twi, who helped me be brave enough to sever the chains. I don't really have friends either because I usually feel like the odd one out and like I don't understand what's going on out in the "real" world, and living isolated for so many years makes it hard to relate to people who've lived their whole lives free from cultish abuse.
my last experience with someone who went back was that I was really disappointed and kind of lost. we'd left together, but then she found a twi fellowship where she felt like there was separation from the HQ bull**** that made us want to leave, and then she got married to an innie, and we haven't really spoken since because of intense panic attacks over the possibility she might try to get me to go back. it's ok though, I still love her even though I let the friendship go.
What is the basis of the loyalty of your friends to twi, is it the people, the doctrine, the deliverance they had when they were new, is it the need to belong to something that they're comfortable with? Â Determining why they're there might hold the key to where you can help them find the way out. Â
I would agree with this.
And, adding to the list.....Is this "need to be right" the driving force to go back to twi? Is that us-versus-them mentality the reason? Do they still think that all denominational churches are spiritually-infested like twi teaches? Do those little cliches like "we have no friends when it comes to the word" hold power over their so-called friendships with others? Feelings of guilt? Of "abandoning one's father in the word or salted vow"? Or, just need to stand with twi...so as to get back to that elitist feeling again?
Sounds to me like these "friends" never developed critical thinking skills to answer the glaring questions regarding vpw's credentials, twi's history, plagairism, doctrinal discrepencies, the toxic lock-box concept, no accountability to congregants -- finances/sex exploitation/grievances, the putrid fruit that has fallen from the way tree, etc. etc..........or the obvious exodus of thousands upon thousands of corps & adv class grads thru the years.
I went on the Way site and it's just like it was a few years ago, with zero opportunity for anyone visiting to send a message, much less even buy a book.
The Way won't put up an email address because they know the second they do, they're going to get lots of unwanted email from "disgruntled" former members.
Disgruntled gets used a lot to describe those who have been screwed by the Way and have the bad taste to actually expect a response of some kind from them over it, and may apply accurately to a percentage of dissatisfied former customers. By and large a lot of those former-members who drop them a line might have no outstanding issues they want resolved and simply want to get some contact information or fine out what's up about this or that.
I doubt they want to take the risk though of being innundated with complaints or worse so they require "snail" mail. Hey, it's your time they're taking, so I guess it's no biggie to them.
That deal on the mail though is a dead giveaway, pardon the pun. It allows them to be in control of what kind of response goes out if one goes out at all. It would be easier to give a contact email or address of someone in the many locations they say they have activity in around the world so that someone interested in what they have to offer could move forward locally, but then the Way wouldn't have that control they get from gathering all the inquiries into one place where they can filter them, toss out what they don't like or want and decide on the rest.
To add: yeah. That Way Prod Cootie Platoon is like, real gone man. If anyone can watch those Way performance videos and not wonder if something toxic got in the water back there, they may not have many good alternatives. In fact, that may be the primary benefit of having the videos online - it will allow for everyone who does enjoy that stuff to step off the primary genetic highways of society and cross pollinate that weirdness amongst themselves.
You all are awesome. It is great to hear your ideas in this discussion!
Motivation for my friends' returning is a great question. I already figured it was a need to belong, but it also is just a case of convenience...The timing was such that very soon after they gave up on the previous guy, along came her husband's bro, who has been with TWI for years. I had to cringe when she said how "nice" it was that of all things, a TWI couple drove all the way down from some other town to escort them to their first fellowship. Reminded me of how we were taught to take care of "fruit" and get them to the meetings however possible...!!!
Anyhoo, the us-versus-them notion is definitely involved, as is the need to be right, I guess. My friend did go to some kind of daytime women's group meeting at a local church a few years ago, but aside from that there has been no search on their part for churches, though I urged it. Another reason might be guilt (or how to alleviate it). They had toyed with leaving Mr. Charlatan Man a few years ago and felt too guilty to do it at that point...I would assume TWI gives them a real good substitute fellowship, in a fast and convenient and guilt-free way.
The idea of the "perfect fellowship" also is still part of their thinking. The lure of the fantasy is still definitely here -- more than once she remarked how great VP was; the last time even after I noted that he plagarized material from Kenyon.
Once you figure out the reasons they are attracted to TWI, how can you talk them out of them, though?
Another topic. Lack of critical thinking skills? Amen, bro, amen. Over the years I have watched the two of them get led around like a couple of sheep. It hurts really bad to see people you love get ripped off monetarily, emotionally, and spiritually because they are flaky. (Irony of ironies, just last month I urged her to get a copy of "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. Oh, well.)
Another person who wrote back on this topic mentioned that she did not hang with her friend (who went to TWI) anymore. Does anybody? It's been a good 14 year friendship, for the most part. Hard to just give up...
To add: yeah. That Way Prod Cootie Platoon is like, real gone man. If anyone can watch those Way performance videos and not wonder if something toxic got in the water back there, they may not have many good alternatives. In fact, that may be the primary benefit of having the videos online - it will allow for everyone who does enjoy that stuff to step off the primary genetic highways of society and cross pollinate that weirdness amongst themselves.
Ditto on that...anyone who actually enjoys that form of mental torture almost deserves to be in twi...
That Way Prod Cootie Platoon is like, real gone man....everyone who does enjoy that stuff to step off the primary genetic highways of society and cross pollinate that weirdness amongst themselves.
Socks, the sad thing is, those who stuck around twi into the late 90's have already been exposed to it and are preprogramed to swallow that swill they call Way Prod, those of us who got out in the 80's were'nt quite as thoroughly programmed to accept such a low standard. That stuff makes you want to loose your religion. :blink:
Once you figure out the reasons they are attracted to TWI, how can you talk them out of them, though?
I wouldn't try. As much as it's hard to see someone do that to themselves, sometimes it's just best to be there. I would keep in contact and continue to go to church (if that's what you are doing) and simply LOVE your friends. Don't get into doctrinal discussions, don't do anything more than look puzzled when they slip into wayspeak, don't do anything but be their friend.
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waysider
javajivey
This site is absolutely a great place for advice and assistance.
I haven't been to a twig since 1990.
I can't see, though, how much could have changed considering they are still promoting the same bogus doctrines, such as "The Law of Believing", "tithing and ABS", "The One True Household/Hedge Of Protection",the devil spirit mumbo-jumbo from the Advanced Class and so on. And, much of the top leadership is comprised of people who were, not only privy to the corruption that has been exposed, but facilitated it and continue to cover it up. But, hey, maybe they got new song books or something. I don't know. And there are some "innies" who visit here pretty regularly who can update you on the current state of affairs.
If your friends are Advance Class grads, you might want to ask them if they can solve the dilemma that surrounds the circumstances of VPW's death from cancer and his chronic, severe addiction to alcohol. (See death certificate shown on this site.)
Maybe they are just in the dark about what really happened. I know I was when I stumbled in here 2 years ago. They are fortunate to have a friend, such as yourself, who has stuck with them through the years.
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Lifted Up
I don't think you need to be excused.
There were changes in the daily life of the "ordinary believer" over the years, such life becoming more controlled. I have no argument to make that life cant be loosened back up, and that the leaders she has contact with are OK, and that the people in fellowships are nice.
One thing (and only one) for me to check things out would be, could I take a trip to HQ and walk around freely, not being eyed with suspicion, as I did as late as 1976?
However, more importantly, while many people were living such a nice fellowship life back in the 60s and 70s, there was a lot going on higher up that we didn't know about. Kristen Skedgell's book provides a fine (but only one) example. Her book of course would not prove anything about right now, nor would any book I think, but my big question (I'm sure others will chime in with theirs) would be, are wrongs being admitted and acknowledged? Or, is life going on 1984 style, pretending nothing really bad happened?
Remember everyone, we are dealing with someone who went back in. When they left, did they know the worst of what went on?
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JeffSjo
Hi Javajivey,
I have to go along with Waysider and LiftedUp as far as TWI goes.
I can understand your friends excitement because they think that the problems have been remedied and that things will now be good. Heck, who wouldn't want that. Bad gone, good now; it is basic human nature to be excited if that really happens in any situation IMO.
But I wonder if your friends would reconsider if they realized that the ones that they choose to trust are still completely unaccountable for their part in TWI sins and have never, ever openly confessed their part in things. How could such leaders do any more than pretend to lead people to a place where a healthy dose of reality is part of the fellowship?
Such leaders will not be able to help folks deal with their problems, they still are completely incapable of dealing with TWI history and their part in it honestly. I think the biblical prognosis will be that they all go into the ditch.
But I'm hoping that you will be able to deal with it if they will not hear you.?
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doojable
Javajivey - some folks have a romantacized memory of their time in twi. They may have been chasing this dream for a long time and now they think they've found it. You said it yourself in another thread:
If they are trying to re-live the good old days - well hopefully this ride will be shorter for them.
Are you trying to keep them from re-joining the cult? Or do you want to know what to do so you don't lose these friends?
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Oakspear
Many people leave TWI, without TWI every really leaving them.
If, upon leaving TWI, one believes that it was the place that "the Word was taught like it hadn't been since the First Century", but that people like Martindale screwed it up, then I can see where today's TWI might look appealing.
To fully leave TWI behind one has to see that the problems were systemic and not just the result of some rogues.
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now I see
I too have a friend in another state, who goes to a geerite fellowship, who absolutely will not leave, even though she knows about vp. Â She actually thinks I'm the one who'se copped out since I'm not involved in any offshoot! Â
She started doing her own fellowship a few years back when she was in an area that had some pretty screwed up fellowship coordinators, but now since she's moved to a new area, and likes the people in the fellowship she goes to, they're young and active in recruiting, she won't leave. Â She has a need to belong and a need to be right. Â It would take a lot of self examination for her to determine what she's dedicated herself and her family to for the past 20 years, is a bunch of bunk. Â I don't think she wants to go there, and she is quite resistant to hearing about anything contradictory to what she already believes. Â
As with most people, unless something bad or horrific happens to them personally, they don't change their perceived loyalties very easily. Â It is very hard to be objective when it deals with friendships and biblical belief systems.
If twi hadn't turned on me in the 80's I don't know how long it would have been till I figured it out, or ran across someone who could enlighten me. Â
What is the basis of the loyalty of your friends to twi, is it the people, the doctrine, the deliverance they had when they were new, is it the need to belong to something that they're comfortable with? Â Determining why they're there might hold the key to where you can help them find the way out. Â
Good luck, I hope you can open their eyes.
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socks
If their only concern was how they were treated by Way people locally and they like what's being taught, and now the people locally they're seeing treat them well - I don't know the answer to the question. I don't see how anyone could swallow what they're teaching but some do, no question about it.
If as they say things are hunky dunky now in the Way, I would think that would include normal relationships with those that aren't members. Again, that should be a matter of choice, where a person's beliefs inform how they interact with others as they choose.
As close friends, your friendship must have been based on other things than your affiliation with the Way and your religious beliefs. Since you've been friends since leaving I'd assume there were other things bonding you. Is that correct to assume?
Can you both choose to be friends even while you disagree on this? It may or may not be possible or it may not even be the right thing to do. I think you both have to make that decision for yourselves.
How to change their minds? Can't say. Whatever it is that's drawn them "back" must be important. Whatever draws them away would have to be too.
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excathedra
fortunately, i don't have to worry, because i have no friends
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Jim
I wonder if she's watched any of the videos on their website?
Call me shallow and uncommitted, but that would be enough to keep me away.
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now I see
Ha ha ha...LOL!! Â You're a comedian Jim! Â That was a good one! Â What an embarrassment, eh?Â
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polar bear
Yeah I was going to say the same thing "tell them to watch the singing ladies" that'll do it.
Or give them the same dose of wayspeak they used to tell us "can a leopard change his spots"?
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kimberly
javajivey, I think I recognize your form of writing. Are you the same one and only as 2 other newbies on this site? Bless you dear darling. I loves ya!!! No matters. Let us keep one and another thinking...
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Javajivey
Newbieon the site? I was on this site a couple years ago..I first took the class in 1979 and did WOW the year VP died. Stopped going to TWI in 1987 and hung out until 1996 with an offshoot here in town. Have been free since 1996.
Golly THANK YOU all for your responses. Lots for me to think about! In no particular order, here are some answers to your questions: Did my friend and her hubby know the worst of TWI junk? Nope.
Do they have a need to belong, yes. There was this charlatan/manipulative guy in their town who they fellowshiped with (not TWI but offshoot) for several years. They finally soured on him (duh, I tried to tell her for years!) after they got into a disastrous "own a business" thing with him.
One of you really pegged it when you said TWI never realy left them. Over the years, some of the Wayspeak she still used used to drive me nuts. Usually I kept my mouth shut but in the same phone call wherein she announced their new return to TWI, I stopped her when she said "out in the world." I said "Where are you now?" "Oh at home." "No,I mean where are you??" She finally got my point, but then she said "You know what I mean, away from the safety and security of your home....working out there..." I wanted to gag. THat mentality of us-versus-them!!!
I will suggest they go to the web site, and to try and visit HQ. They live too far away to just drive over to HQ quickly, but they can check out the site. I take it there is some amusing stuff on there!
THe fact that the web site is NOT transparent, is NOT open to public comment or response and is NOT even selling this "great" books is enough for me. Unfortunately I doubit it's enough for them...
Well I am a very glad you all don't mind assisting/listening to this.
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Ham
aww, excie.. you have friends..
:)
at least I added you to my friends list.. I hope it means something..
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potato
I love you, excie. I know we're not friends but I am eternally thankful you're here because you're one of the people who helped me get out of twi, who helped me be brave enough to sever the chains. I don't really have friends either because I usually feel like the odd one out and like I don't understand what's going on out in the "real" world, and living isolated for so many years makes it hard to relate to people who've lived their whole lives free from cultish abuse.
my last experience with someone who went back was that I was really disappointed and kind of lost. we'd left together, but then she found a twi fellowship where she felt like there was separation from the HQ bull**** that made us want to leave, and then she got married to an innie, and we haven't really spoken since because of intense panic attacks over the possibility she might try to get me to go back. it's ok though, I still love her even though I let the friendship go.
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skyrider
I would agree with this.
And, adding to the list.....Is this "need to be right" the driving force to go back to twi? Is that us-versus-them mentality the reason? Do they still think that all denominational churches are spiritually-infested like twi teaches? Do those little cliches like "we have no friends when it comes to the word" hold power over their so-called friendships with others? Feelings of guilt? Of "abandoning one's father in the word or salted vow"? Or, just need to stand with twi...so as to get back to that elitist feeling again?
Sounds to me like these "friends" never developed critical thinking skills to answer the glaring questions regarding vpw's credentials, twi's history, plagairism, doctrinal discrepencies, the toxic lock-box concept, no accountability to congregants -- finances/sex exploitation/grievances, the putrid fruit that has fallen from the way tree, etc. etc..........or the obvious exodus of thousands upon thousands of corps & adv class grads thru the years.
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frank123lol
Exie,You have lots of friends here.I think you have great insight on your replies.
An old saying from a "christian\"comedian said somthing like we are not cookie cutter copies of one another.
Twi,on the other hand,wanted,demanded we all be the same.
This has somthing to do with this thread,People who go "back"want that homogenous feeling,blended togetheras the "one" household.Yeech!!
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socks
The Way won't put up an email address because they know the second they do, they're going to get lots of unwanted email from "disgruntled" former members.
Disgruntled gets used a lot to describe those who have been screwed by the Way and have the bad taste to actually expect a response of some kind from them over it, and may apply accurately to a percentage of dissatisfied former customers. By and large a lot of those former-members who drop them a line might have no outstanding issues they want resolved and simply want to get some contact information or fine out what's up about this or that.
I doubt they want to take the risk though of being innundated with complaints or worse so they require "snail" mail. Hey, it's your time they're taking, so I guess it's no biggie to them.
That deal on the mail though is a dead giveaway, pardon the pun. It allows them to be in control of what kind of response goes out if one goes out at all. It would be easier to give a contact email or address of someone in the many locations they say they have activity in around the world so that someone interested in what they have to offer could move forward locally, but then the Way wouldn't have that control they get from gathering all the inquiries into one place where they can filter them, toss out what they don't like or want and decide on the rest.
To add: yeah. That Way Prod Cootie Platoon is like, real gone man. If anyone can watch those Way performance videos and not wonder if something toxic got in the water back there, they may not have many good alternatives. In fact, that may be the primary benefit of having the videos online - it will allow for everyone who does enjoy that stuff to step off the primary genetic highways of society and cross pollinate that weirdness amongst themselves.
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Javajivey
You all are awesome. It is great to hear your ideas in this discussion!
Motivation for my friends' returning is a great question. I already figured it was a need to belong, but it also is just a case of convenience...The timing was such that very soon after they gave up on the previous guy, along came her husband's bro, who has been with TWI for years. I had to cringe when she said how "nice" it was that of all things, a TWI couple drove all the way down from some other town to escort them to their first fellowship. Reminded me of how we were taught to take care of "fruit" and get them to the meetings however possible...!!!
Anyhoo, the us-versus-them notion is definitely involved, as is the need to be right, I guess. My friend did go to some kind of daytime women's group meeting at a local church a few years ago, but aside from that there has been no search on their part for churches, though I urged it. Another reason might be guilt (or how to alleviate it). They had toyed with leaving Mr. Charlatan Man a few years ago and felt too guilty to do it at that point...I would assume TWI gives them a real good substitute fellowship, in a fast and convenient and guilt-free way.
The idea of the "perfect fellowship" also is still part of their thinking. The lure of the fantasy is still definitely here -- more than once she remarked how great VP was; the last time even after I noted that he plagarized material from Kenyon.
Once you figure out the reasons they are attracted to TWI, how can you talk them out of them, though?
Another topic. Lack of critical thinking skills? Amen, bro, amen. Over the years I have watched the two of them get led around like a couple of sheep. It hurts really bad to see people you love get ripped off monetarily, emotionally, and spiritually because they are flaky. (Irony of ironies, just last month I urged her to get a copy of "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. Oh, well.)
Another person who wrote back on this topic mentioned that she did not hang with her friend (who went to TWI) anymore. Does anybody? It's been a good 14 year friendship, for the most part. Hard to just give up...
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GrouchoMarxJr
Ditto on that...anyone who actually enjoys that form of mental torture almost deserves to be in twi...
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now I see
Socks, the sad thing is, those who stuck around twi into the late 90's have already been exposed to it and are preprogramed to swallow that swill they call Way Prod, those of us who got out in the 80's were'nt quite as thoroughly programmed to accept such a low standard. That stuff makes you want to loose your religion. :blink:
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JeffSjo
Dear Excathedra,
Maybe it's time for you to try some friends on and see if they fit.
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doojable
It makes me loose my lunch.
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Tzaia
I wouldn't try. As much as it's hard to see someone do that to themselves, sometimes it's just best to be there. I would keep in contact and continue to go to church (if that's what you are doing) and simply LOVE your friends. Don't get into doctrinal discussions, don't do anything more than look puzzled when they slip into wayspeak, don't do anything but be their friend.
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