Reminds me of when I was a WOW in a small burg in western Nebraska. Apparently the interim Corps had been told to "get involved". My interim Corps WOW coordinator dragged me to one of the local "help the less fortunate" agencies. He told the head of the office that he wanted to "get involved". She looked at him quizically and asked "get involved in what?" :blink:
Mr. Way Corps had no answer other than to smile sincerely.
I believe it is essential to understand that TWI's efforts to appear altruistic were driven by the ulterior motive of selling PLAF (The Wonder Class) and recruiting newcomers into the ranks. It was a money driven organization at its most inner core. Do whatever it takes to sell PLAF. ----Bottom line.
Personally,I'll never serve an organization, again.. never. Serve IN an organization where I'm not stuffing sycophants pockets with moolah, and actually making a DIFFERENCE? Perhaps.
Like the radio club here. It has an organization, corporation papers, insurance, an elected board (unpaid), and.. they serve the community. Club equipment is bought and paid for at the VOTE of club members.. and it is put in service for possible disaster communications, or for community public service. Every last dollar is accounted for.. publically. At the club meeting of course, but we don't have bars on the windows and locks on the doors to keep inquiring minds from checking it out..
The treasurer presents the club financial status at EVERY monthly meeting.. even more detail than many would want to know.
That's what I call an "organization", the REAL purpose of 501C.
and it doesn't exist to be served.. it exists to serve, to give back to the community and society in general the benefits of electronic communications of all kinds.
There are THOUSANDS of little clubs and groups like this, all over the United States.
And.. 99.9 percent of them are honest, above board with finances.
Why is it, if one adds religion to the equation.. I won't say it happens in every case, but why do these sycophants really think they have to offer, that they put out a shingle, or start a farm, and put up a sign: "Here am I, serve *me*"?
Some may see it differently, but I almost think it's a sin to send them money.. donate a vehicle, labor.. at least a transgression of ordinary common sense..
Once in my little splinter group the same elder that later fired me from my job after they moved my wife and son out of my house told me about an idea to help the community, well, specifically the town that was nearest their location. They were going to train chosen people to get involved with local government activities in the town. This elders own words were something along the lines of,"We could make things SO MUCH BETTER!"
My gut reaction to this was that they were stupid and prideful to automatically assume that they could improve things for the local town that SO DESPERATELY NEEDED THEIR HELP. By this time I was operating with a fairly clear picture of how my splinter leader would use an incursion into local government affairs to expand his influence with his loyal disciples. Frankly, I thought that either the locals would laugh them out of involvement when they saw how my splinter group operated or, eventually my splinter leader would slowly turn town life into a living he!! for the residents, perhaps over five or ten years.
Something I read this morning came to mind as I read your post. Here goes:
"Much of what is wrong in my life is related to my opinions--that is, my prejudices, assumptions, self-righteous stances, attitudes. For example, I continue to assume that I have the inside track on how everything should be done, and that other people are too short-sighted to recognize this great truth. Reality proves me wrong."
Borrowed from: Courage to Change, October 14th
The reason this stuck in my mind is because that's the way I used to think while involved with twi and for a long time afterwards. Recovery is wonderful :)
Mr. Waycorps was more than a conqueror then, except for clear thinking and a heart of love.....
What the heck, except for a few deficiencies like that he could follow orders.
Dear Waysider,
That kind of thing is what really galls me about my splinter group, the motives of the man who rules with an iron fist in the center. I've told some of the locals that he was like the big, nasty, blood-sucking spider in the center of a web of very nice, sincere people.
My ex-wife thought of him as a replacement for the father that she lost as a child and considers me to be the bad guy for telling her what was going on with him.
My splinter leader just wants to own people, lock, stock, and barrel IMO. Folks went into debt beyond what the could carry for the priviledge of having this man take their families for his own. One woman actually told her husband to his face that this man was the TRUE FATHER of his kids. He was going to ignore it until I told him that he had to deal with it. As a reward this woman was "given the blessing" (Barf, wretch) of the likelyhood of her daughters being paired with my former splinter leader's sons.
Dear Ham,
So without insane leadership an organization can actually do good in a non-self serving manner and not take advantage of it's members.
WOW, WHAT A CONCEPT :)
Dear Waterbuffallo,
Personally, I'm really, really glad that you are doing well. :)
I don't mind that elder thing as much as the "Word in the flesh" thing as it was applied to our fearful leader. And the apostle, king, one who holds the rod of Iron, etc. etc. type glory that was reserved exclusively for him.
Well Jeff if it is any humorous consolation for you...here are the four banner adds that came up auto-magically on GSC when I was at the top of the "About the Way" forum....
a) Letter from JAL
b) Kitchen exhaust cleaning - hmmm would that mean someone could shut his incessant mouth?
c) Grease Trap - Caught his illogic through testimony of previous CES members
d) Grease remover - Bubye JAL
Sorry - a little twisted - but it's all of those voices that keep talking to me out of the fillings in my teeth - smirk
*
Letter from John Lynn
Beyond The Way International. Why so many left - a must read!
www.ChristianEducational.org
*
Kitchen exhaust cleaning
26 state service area National grease exhaust inspections
www.enviromatic.com
*
Grease Trap
The Top Industrial Resource. Find Grease Traps Quickly.
Greasetraps.Industrial101.com
*
Grease remover
We remove and dispose of grease. Over 20 years experience!
RummRunners post brings me back to when I first came to the Greasespot. When I looked at my life and the wreck that it was deliberately made by my former splinter group leader I could really relate to being made a Greasespot on the highway. Somewhere I had heard of Martindale's comments and they seemed to fit me, except it was not the world that screwed me over so badly, it was the so-called ministry.
In my neck of the woods there seem to be some folks out here who wonder about my splinter experience, but folks who can really relate to it are few and far between. But the few genuine friends that I have, the one's who are glad to see me even though they don't understand that much of what I went through are very, very much of a blessing.
Christain or not, they seem to generally be folks who have the decency to see that the nasty, backstabbing, life-destroying moves that my splinter leader first learned in TWI are dead wrong. Personally, the fact that such things were done in the Lord's name makes it seem far worse to me. I mean, that if I meet a stockbroker who has learned how to manipulate people for his own benefit I know why he does it, to be successful in business, he is what he is, I hold no grudge. But when someone poses as a Man of God and convinces folks that he loves them , only to destroy them for the most petty of reasons in the Lord's name, I GET PEEVED.
Please don't take any of my more sicko posts seriously. Twas meant as a little light humor for you and was really quite spontaneous based solely on the juxtapostion of those banner ads.
With regard to the serious nature of your posts I have little advice to give. I've been out for 20 years and even with that am a relative newcomer to GSC. Heck I left so long ago I never even heard of a splinter group until I logged on here.
That being said...the easiest way for me to walk away was just to look at the whole thing as a life experience gone south. Kinda like doing contraband in college. Years later I look back and wonder what I was thinking when I stuffed all of that down my throat.
While I recognize the importance for many people here of still having God in their lives - you might listen to some of those posters who have DROPPED organizational ANYTHING and still read the Bible for their own enjoyment.
BTW - it's my experience that there are plenty of good folks out there - not all of whom profess Christianity - but nonetheless are decent people. They will never understand your experience with TWI - if it was that easy GSC wouldn't exist - but that doesn't mean that you need to limit yourself in your new friendships and relationships.
I dunno, RR. for a while it was a lot safer for me to limit honest human interaction with people here. it was online, therefore limited, but I felt a lot safer. out in the real world I felt like such a misfit. I didn't think I'd ever start to fit in, and I've been out now for 2 years and just starting to feel like twi is the past and that I can interact with people in a somewhat normal way. I'm not afraid of running into innies anymore, and I can tell people with some humor now that I was in a cult so I'm out of touch with culture over the past 2 decades, which gives me the perfect excuse to be eccentric.
I dunno, RR. for a while it was a lot safer for me to limit honest human interaction with people here. it was online, therefore limited, but I felt a lot safer. out in the real world I felt like such a misfit. I didn't think I'd ever start to fit in, and I've been out now for 2 years and just starting to feel like twi is the past and that I can interact with people in a somewhat normal way. I'm not afraid of running into innies anymore, and I can tell people with some humor now that I was in a cult so I'm out of touch with culture over the past 2 decades, which gives me the perfect excuse to be eccentric.
As I said Potato - I have little advice to give. I gave my experience which should in no way be taken to be the correct way to leave TWI behind. Interesting note though per your quote/post - you've been out for 2, I've been out for 20.
I think it is potentially unsafe to compare experiences based on that radical a difference. What worked for me may work for no one else - hence my disclaimer about advice.
Please don't take any of my more sicko posts seriously. Twas meant as a little light humor for you and was really quite spontaneous based solely on the juxtapostion of those banner ads.
...and I find it ironic that the banner ad at the bottom of my page, "The Alfred Hitchcock Hour"...somehow seems fitting.
As I said Potato - I have little advice to give. I gave my experience which should in no way be taken to be the correct way to leave TWI behind. Interesting note though per your quote/post - you've been out for 2, I've been out for 20.
I think it is potentially unsafe to compare experiences based on that radical a difference. What worked for me may work for no one else - hence my disclaimer about advice.
Best wishes on your detachment from TWI
you were actually one of the people who made me feel most welcome when I was new, RR :)
I know you're not the one-size-fits-all type of person. I guess I was pondering the situation more than anything. we have a few extremists here who don't understand why anyone would have a problem leaving or with the way they were treated, then there are those of us who may never fully recover from the damage that was done. I think it's really good to have all perspectives especially when they're given as kindly as you offer yours. I'm just starting to find out there really are some decent folks out there who won't ever understand what it was like for me to be in a mind-controlling cult but still like me anyway. the chains around my soul have been cut off for the most part. at this point I think someday, perhaps, I can look back at it as an experience gone south (god knows I have enough of those anyway) but a year ago I was sure that would never happen. so I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, just musing, but you're right there is a huge difference in perspective between 2 years and 20.
I'm pretty sure that getting away from twi was a whole lot easier for me than it would have been if GS didn't exist. I'm also sure that I will hate that organization until the end of my days.
you were actually one of the people who made me feel most welcome when I was new, RR :)
Wow! I did something right?!?!?! Thanks!!
I know you're not the one-size-fits-all type of person. I guess I was pondering the situation more than anything. we have a few extremists here who don't understand why anyone would have a problem leaving or with the way they were treated, then there are those of us who may never fully recover from the damage that was done. I think it's really good to have all perspectives especially when they're given as kindly as you offer yours. I'm just starting to find out there really are some decent folks out there who won't ever understand what it was like for me to be in a mind-controlling cult but still like me anyway. the chains around my soul have been cut off for the most part. at this point I think someday, perhaps, I can look back at it as an experience gone south (god knows I have enough of those anyway) but a year ago I was sure that would never happen. so I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, just musing, but you're right there is a huge difference in perspective between 2 years and 20.
Oh don't worry I didn't take it as disagreeing. In fact I was thinking later (I'm lame like that - send a post then the next day think, "Hey I should have added so and so...") that you being out two years ago and me twenty - TWI (from the sound of posts here) was a completely different animal by then. It was bad enough when I left but from the stories here it seems to have evolved into a whole new level of control. Hence I can certainly understand why separation from that organization could be very different than the one I left. I also understand the level of effort many people put into TWI. For many, I think, leaving was up there with divorce in terms of trauma...never a fun moment in that exercise
I'm pretty sure that getting away from twi was a whole lot easier for me than it would have been if GS didn't exist. I'm also sure that I will hate that organization until the end of my days.
Amen to that! Hang in there. We should change your name to SweetPotato... enjoy your Sunday
"I also understand the level of effort many people put into TWI. For many, I think, leaving was up there with divorce in terms of trauma...never a fun moment in that exercise"
I can vouch for this! what's really kinda funny though is that I wasn't nearly as afraid of leaving my ex as I was of leaving twi, but over the long term twi has made a much better ex than he has!
Thanks again RumRunner and no problem, you're o.k. in my book. I've learned from and listened to all types here at the Greasespot.
Dear Groucho,
The same to you buddy! (Same sentiment as too RR I mean.) :)
Dear Potato,
It's really nice to have you back here at the Greasespot, it seems like it's been a while.
I have to admit, I still want to call you Sweetpotato though. But as you wish.
(added in editing)
P.S. Potato and RumRunner
On my part, I am open to new friendships, especially if they would happen to arise from good talks here at the greasespot. But I can totally understand why some would need the distance of non-personal contact that this forum provides. That being said, people that I would pursue a friendship with but decide to hold back is a little bit of a "what can a guy do" kind of thing for me.
When folks try to tread on peoples right to anonymity here at the greasespot, well, it has at times perturbed me. As if any TWI victim has to enter the public arena for kindness and understanding. But when it seems that they only want folks to identify themselves in order to attack them, well, some of us may be willing to work through some of these in public. (hehehe) I often have told them things like, here am I, who are you anyway!?
In my life, the folks who think that God has given them the right to belittle and destroy people have given me a lot of grief already. It wasn't until recently that I discovered this insane perspective was not unique to my splinter group, but in truth grew out of my former splinter group's TWI roots. IT IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF "WHEN SERVING THE MINISTRY IS SERVING GOD.....NOT!"
Recommended Posts
Oakspear
Reminds me of when I was a WOW in a small burg in western Nebraska. Apparently the interim Corps had been told to "get involved". My interim Corps WOW coordinator dragged me to one of the local "help the less fortunate" agencies. He told the head of the office that he wanted to "get involved". She looked at him quizically and asked "get involved in what?" :blink:
Mr. Way Corps had no answer other than to smile sincerely.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I believe it is essential to understand that TWI's efforts to appear altruistic were driven by the ulterior motive of selling PLAF (The Wonder Class) and recruiting newcomers into the ranks. It was a money driven organization at its most inner core. Do whatever it takes to sell PLAF. ----Bottom line.
Altruism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Personally,I'll never serve an organization, again.. never. Serve IN an organization where I'm not stuffing sycophants pockets with moolah, and actually making a DIFFERENCE? Perhaps.
Like the radio club here. It has an organization, corporation papers, insurance, an elected board (unpaid), and.. they serve the community. Club equipment is bought and paid for at the VOTE of club members.. and it is put in service for possible disaster communications, or for community public service. Every last dollar is accounted for.. publically. At the club meeting of course, but we don't have bars on the windows and locks on the doors to keep inquiring minds from checking it out..
The treasurer presents the club financial status at EVERY monthly meeting.. even more detail than many would want to know.
That's what I call an "organization", the REAL purpose of 501C.
and it doesn't exist to be served.. it exists to serve, to give back to the community and society in general the benefits of electronic communications of all kinds.
There are THOUSANDS of little clubs and groups like this, all over the United States.
And.. 99.9 percent of them are honest, above board with finances.
Why is it, if one adds religion to the equation.. I won't say it happens in every case, but why do these sycophants really think they have to offer, that they put out a shingle, or start a farm, and put up a sign: "Here am I, serve *me*"?
Some may see it differently, but I almost think it's a sin to send them money.. donate a vehicle, labor.. at least a transgression of ordinary common sense..
Edited by HamLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
as far as working heartily unto the lord, TO an organization, making it equivalent to serving God..
What about a hit man in the mob? I mean.. yeah, he probably really enjoys his line of work and all..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Hey Jeff!
Elders? Are you serious??????? The splinter group leadahs are called elders?
I'm sawry! But, elders?
What's the difference in the splinter group and the mormons or the JWs?
Isn't that what they call their mogs, too?
Too funny.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Something I read this morning came to mind as I read your post. Here goes:
"Much of what is wrong in my life is related to my opinions--that is, my prejudices, assumptions, self-righteous stances, attitudes. For example, I continue to assume that I have the inside track on how everything should be done, and that other people are too short-sighted to recognize this great truth. Reality proves me wrong."
Borrowed from: Courage to Change, October 14th
The reason this stuck in my mind is because that's the way I used to think while involved with twi and for a long time afterwards. Recovery is wonderful :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Oakspear,
Mr. Waycorps was more than a conqueror then, except for clear thinking and a heart of love.....
What the heck, except for a few deficiencies like that he could follow orders.
Dear Waysider,
That kind of thing is what really galls me about my splinter group, the motives of the man who rules with an iron fist in the center. I've told some of the locals that he was like the big, nasty, blood-sucking spider in the center of a web of very nice, sincere people.
My ex-wife thought of him as a replacement for the father that she lost as a child and considers me to be the bad guy for telling her what was going on with him.
My splinter leader just wants to own people, lock, stock, and barrel IMO. Folks went into debt beyond what the could carry for the priviledge of having this man take their families for his own. One woman actually told her husband to his face that this man was the TRUE FATHER of his kids. He was going to ignore it until I told him that he had to deal with it. As a reward this woman was "given the blessing" (Barf, wretch) of the likelyhood of her daughters being paired with my former splinter leader's sons.
Dear Ham,
So without insane leadership an organization can actually do good in a non-self serving manner and not take advantage of it's members.
WOW, WHAT A CONCEPT :)
Dear Waterbuffallo,
Personally, I'm really, really glad that you are doing well. :)
I don't mind that elder thing as much as the "Word in the flesh" thing as it was applied to our fearful leader. And the apostle, king, one who holds the rod of Iron, etc. etc. type glory that was reserved exclusively for him.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Well Jeff if it is any humorous consolation for you...here are the four banner adds that came up auto-magically on GSC when I was at the top of the "About the Way" forum....
a) Letter from JAL
b) Kitchen exhaust cleaning - hmmm would that mean someone could shut his incessant mouth?
c) Grease Trap - Caught his illogic through testimony of previous CES members
d) Grease remover - Bubye JAL
Sorry - a little twisted - but it's all of those voices that keep talking to me out of the fillings in my teeth - smirk
*
Letter from John Lynn
Beyond The Way International. Why so many left - a must read!
www.ChristianEducational.org
*
Kitchen exhaust cleaning
26 state service area National grease exhaust inspections
www.enviromatic.com
*
Grease Trap
The Top Industrial Resource. Find Grease Traps Quickly.
Greasetraps.Industrial101.com
*
Grease remover
We remove and dispose of grease. Over 20 years experience!
wasteoil-az.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Thanks RumRunner, I'll check these links out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
RummRunners post brings me back to when I first came to the Greasespot. When I looked at my life and the wreck that it was deliberately made by my former splinter group leader I could really relate to being made a Greasespot on the highway. Somewhere I had heard of Martindale's comments and they seemed to fit me, except it was not the world that screwed me over so badly, it was the so-called ministry.
In my neck of the woods there seem to be some folks out here who wonder about my splinter experience, but folks who can really relate to it are few and far between. But the few genuine friends that I have, the one's who are glad to see me even though they don't understand that much of what I went through are very, very much of a blessing.
Christain or not, they seem to generally be folks who have the decency to see that the nasty, backstabbing, life-destroying moves that my splinter leader first learned in TWI are dead wrong. Personally, the fact that such things were done in the Lord's name makes it seem far worse to me. I mean, that if I meet a stockbroker who has learned how to manipulate people for his own benefit I know why he does it, to be successful in business, he is what he is, I hold no grudge. But when someone poses as a Man of God and convinces folks that he loves them , only to destroy them for the most petty of reasons in the Lord's name, I GET PEEVED.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Hey Jeff,
Please don't take any of my more sicko posts seriously. Twas meant as a little light humor for you and was really quite spontaneous based solely on the juxtapostion of those banner ads.
With regard to the serious nature of your posts I have little advice to give. I've been out for 20 years and even with that am a relative newcomer to GSC. Heck I left so long ago I never even heard of a splinter group until I logged on here.
That being said...the easiest way for me to walk away was just to look at the whole thing as a life experience gone south. Kinda like doing contraband in college. Years later I look back and wonder what I was thinking when I stuffed all of that down my throat.
While I recognize the importance for many people here of still having God in their lives - you might listen to some of those posters who have DROPPED organizational ANYTHING and still read the Bible for their own enjoyment.
BTW - it's my experience that there are plenty of good folks out there - not all of whom profess Christianity - but nonetheless are decent people. They will never understand your experience with TWI - if it was that easy GSC wouldn't exist - but that doesn't mean that you need to limit yourself in your new friendships and relationships.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
I dunno, RR. for a while it was a lot safer for me to limit honest human interaction with people here. it was online, therefore limited, but I felt a lot safer. out in the real world I felt like such a misfit. I didn't think I'd ever start to fit in, and I've been out now for 2 years and just starting to feel like twi is the past and that I can interact with people in a somewhat normal way. I'm not afraid of running into innies anymore, and I can tell people with some humor now that I was in a cult so I'm out of touch with culture over the past 2 decades, which gives me the perfect excuse to be eccentric.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
As I said Potato - I have little advice to give. I gave my experience which should in no way be taken to be the correct way to leave TWI behind. Interesting note though per your quote/post - you've been out for 2, I've been out for 20.
I think it is potentially unsafe to compare experiences based on that radical a difference. What worked for me may work for no one else - hence my disclaimer about advice.
Best wishes on your detachment from TWI
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
...and I find it ironic that the banner ad at the bottom of my page, "The Alfred Hitchcock Hour"...somehow seems fitting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
you were actually one of the people who made me feel most welcome when I was new, RR :)
I know you're not the one-size-fits-all type of person. I guess I was pondering the situation more than anything. we have a few extremists here who don't understand why anyone would have a problem leaving or with the way they were treated, then there are those of us who may never fully recover from the damage that was done. I think it's really good to have all perspectives especially when they're given as kindly as you offer yours. I'm just starting to find out there really are some decent folks out there who won't ever understand what it was like for me to be in a mind-controlling cult but still like me anyway. the chains around my soul have been cut off for the most part. at this point I think someday, perhaps, I can look back at it as an experience gone south (god knows I have enough of those anyway) but a year ago I was sure that would never happen. so I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, just musing, but you're right there is a huge difference in perspective between 2 years and 20.
I'm pretty sure that getting away from twi was a whole lot easier for me than it would have been if GS didn't exist. I'm also sure that I will hate that organization until the end of my days.
Edited by potatoLink to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
"I also understand the level of effort many people put into TWI. For many, I think, leaving was up there with divorce in terms of trauma...never a fun moment in that exercise"
I can vouch for this! what's really kinda funny though is that I wasn't nearly as afraid of leaving my ex as I was of leaving twi, but over the long term twi has made a much better ex than he has!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Thanks again RumRunner and no problem, you're o.k. in my book. I've learned from and listened to all types here at the Greasespot.
Dear Groucho,
The same to you buddy! (Same sentiment as too RR I mean.) :)
Dear Potato,
It's really nice to have you back here at the Greasespot, it seems like it's been a while.
I have to admit, I still want to call you Sweetpotato though.
But as you wish.
(added in editing)
P.S. Potato and RumRunner
On my part, I am open to new friendships, especially if they would happen to arise from good talks here at the greasespot. But I can totally understand why some would need the distance of non-personal contact that this forum provides. That being said, people that I would pursue a friendship with but decide to hold back is a little bit of a "what can a guy do" kind of thing for me.
When folks try to tread on peoples right to anonymity here at the greasespot, well, it has at times perturbed me. As if any TWI victim has to enter the public arena for kindness and understanding. But when it seems that they only want folks to identify themselves in order to attack them, well, some of us may be willing to work through some of these in public. (hehehe) I often have told them things like, here am I, who are you anyway!?
In my life, the folks who think that God has given them the right to belittle and destroy people have given me a lot of grief already. It wasn't until recently that I discovered this insane perspective was not unique to my splinter group, but in truth grew out of my former splinter group's TWI roots. IT IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF "WHEN SERVING THE MINISTRY IS SERVING GOD.....NOT!"
(edited for grammar)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.