What do we know about the fox?

[insurgent]

Since there are so many new posters and lurkers and many of them may not know anything about the fox in charge of TWI, this seems to be worth repeating.

I do not have the sources for these posts, but they are from very credible posters at WayDale and/or GSpot or I would not have kept these things to fuel my fight to get my family out.

Rosalie Fox Rivenbark is from New Bern, North Carolina (anyone in the area can easily dig up her public records and information on her family background).

I believe that she was a teacher there for a long time prior to TWI.

She is from a wealthy background (although I don't believe that she herself is wealthy). The Rivenbark name is well known in New Bern.

To the best of my knowledge, SHE CURRENTLY OWNS PROPERTY IN NEW BERN, NC. This fact is not known by hardly any Way people. She sends the various taxing authorities checks to cover her taxes annually.

Interestingly enough, with Rosalie supposedly living on a "need basis," it strikes me as a bit of a double standard that The Way would allow her take part of her "need basis determined" salary and let her pay property taxes in NC with it. After all, smoking was banned for the Way Corps (except Don Wierwille) because LCM said that TWI wasn't going to pay the bill! Same with pets (except Rosalie) and more.

For someone purporting to be living on a "need basis, " she continues to be entangled in property ownership. It looks to me like Rosalie isn't burning her bridges to NC, even though she requires others in The Way to burn theirs. Maybe her NC property is an escape pod of sorts if the $hit hits the fan?

Rosalie entered the Family Corps in one of the early corps. She came in with two children (2 boys). Rosalie NEVER talks about her background (She is an absolute privacy freak - not that that is wrong - but she doesn't allow other HQ staff to have their privacy).

Rosalie NEVER talks about her children or family. NEVER. She NEVER talks about the man that she married - then divorced - then remarried - then divorced again.

To the best of my recollections (I may not be accurate, but I think I am), Rosalie has marked and avoided one of her sons.

I can verify Linda Z's remark that Rosalie would have her secretaries tell Dr. Wierwille when he called, that she was out of the office, when in fact she wasn't. That fact is know only by a very few at HQ.

In planning a Way International web site, it became increasingly apparent that one of the main road blocks to the implementation of a web site was the extreme concern on the part of Rosalie Rivenbark that her name and picture might have to be on the Web site.

It was quickly decided that NO pictures of ANY trustees was the best way to go. This was decided in an attempt to keep Rosalie off of the internet.

In talks with certain cabinet people at HQ, it was very apparent that Rosalie was desperate that she not featured on the web site. One cabinet person (who knows Rosalie very well)went as far as to say to me - "we don' t want Rosalie's picture and biographical sketch on the Internet because next thing you know, people will start to research her background, then they'll discover her New Bern, NC. connections and then they'll be nosing into all sorts of stuff" [the preceeding is my recollection of what he said, It may not be quoted with 100% accuracy, but it's darn close!]

Six months ago, while all at TWI HQ are undergoing extreme austerity measures with the "emergency financial cutbacks," Rosalie saw fit to spend over $20,000 on a sailing boat. Rosalie has been having long- term "free" sailing lessons provided to her by one of the HQ staff people in preparation for his little luxury item. Rosalie has also been having long-term "free" art/painting lessons provided by a HQ staff person.

Rosalie who owns her own property close to The Way International uses Way International labor and materials from the Grounds Department in mowing and maintaining her expansive grounds. TWI also take care of ALL her in-home maintenance. Rosalie is very secretive about this practice of using TWI resources for her personal use and has requested some who are aware of this practice to not divulge the knowledge to others.

Besides the obvious ethical and moral considerations, her possible personal income tax liability and the possible legal aspects as it impacts TWI are also factors at play in her asking people to not divulge this information concerning this spending of TWI (charity) resources.

During the spring and summer months as much as 70 - 95 man hours each weeks (easily!) are spent by paid employees of The Way International maintaining her private home, swimming pool, and grounds. Skilled labor and sevices ranging from grounds care, pest control, home maintenace and repairs, painting and wallpapering, swimming pool care, home cleaning, laundry and cooking are all provided to her by TWI. This practice obviously increases the value of her personal property adn frees up more of her personal money for other uses.

All of this utilization of Way International resources and abundant sharing for personal use - while from the other side of her mouth she and the other trustees agressively teach the Way Corps that even the simple act of using a ministry owned pen to use for notetaking in Sunday Service would be nothing short of THEFT!

As for Rosalie's vacations with Donna Martindale, they are still the norm. LCM usually goes on a trip with Donna each year, but Donna normally finds time to go on a vacation with Rosalie (without LCM) each year.

Rosalie has a very beutifully furnished three bedroom home. In order for it to appear that she is prepared to "share" her home, Rosalie has two Way Corps ladies - Janet Myracle and Sharon Crowther live in her one bedroomed basement.

Rosalie enjoys the wonderfully appointed 3 bedroom home all to herself, while giving the impression to outsiders that she is actually sharing the home. In reality - the two "roommates" live in a semi-converted basement. During the workday, Sharon Crowther does ALL of Rosalie' s cooking, cleaning and laundry and homecare.

Rosalie Rivenbark is probably the single greatest force in the implementation of the legalistic, bondage and fear based management style that has developed in TWI in the past several years. Rivenbark's role in the direction of TWI is being vastly underestimated.

There's a lot more to tell about the secretive trustee, Rosalie Rivenbark, who on occasion is known to greet guests at her front door wearing nothing but her famous smile!

*****

Somehow I think you knew I'd have to find time for this one. :)--> I'll post some of what I know firsthand, without the rumors and gossip that abound regarding this person.

When I began working in Way Publications, we were indirectly under the thumb of another twi "matriarch," Emogene Axxxx. We had, however, a buffer zone in our Dept. Coordinator, Tom Plain. Although Auntie Em called the shots as they pertained to our dept., some of us didn't take her too seriously; I basically steered clear of her as much as I could and enjoyed the heck out of my first year on staff.

The next year it was announced that Rosalie would become the coordinator of Way Publications , with Tom Plain retaining oversight of the printing and finishing work. I cringed when I heard the announcement. Her very voice was like chalk on a blackboard to me. I still remember watching her and Bob Winegarner smiling and being sappy on stage in the Big Tent at some event or another during Corps Week just before she took over Way Pub. and thinking, "Oh, my God. What are we in for? This woman is a phony."

I underestimated her. Phoney is way too mild a word. Her middle name suits her well.

Life with RR as a dept. coordinator was hell for all but those who liked being told what to do every moment of every day. She nearly had a mutiny on her hands when she tried to force everyone to sign out every time we left the office--whether it was to go to the bathroom or the snack shop or to go discuss an article with someone. Didn't matter. She wanted us to sign out, stating where we were going, on the pretense of needing to know what to tell people if they phoned for us.

We had a knock-down, drag-out dept. meeting over that one, and it appeared that Rosalie lost. She gave up the idea of the sign- out sheets, but she had bigger fish to fry. She was just biding her time until she could get rid of everyone in the department who had stood up to her. She succeeded. By the time it was all over, we were practically knocking each other out of the way to get out the door. But back to that a little later.

A lot has been speculated and said about Rosalie's relationship with Donna Martindale. I have no firsthand knowledge about any untoward relationship between them. But I do know this: Once Rosalie got her hooks into Donna, Donna changed. Donna was always a shoot-from-the-hip sort of woman, to be sure. She didn't sugar coat things, but she was not a hard woman. She could teach God' s Word in a way that melted hearts and scattered the cobwebs. Her love for God was obvious and contagious. When Donna talked, I usually got blessed and was prompted to think and not just go through the motions.

This is a foggy memory, but I seem to recall that VPW initially "assigned" Rosalie to hang out with Donna, to make her more "ladylike." Anyone remember this? I believe that RR had Dr. Wierwille very, very deceived, or he'd never have suggested this. Rosalie had the outward "lady" thing down pat. Always dainty in public, always with that sappy grin. Always following protocal to a T. This little alliance with RR, IMO, was the ruination of Donna Martindale.

(Rosalie won't be the last woman to ever deceive a man. One thing women know is when another woman is manipulative and sneaky. Men very often are not on a wavelength to catch on to this. I think VPW was hoodwinked, buying her sweet smile and soft demeanor and what appeared to be her submissive, quiet nature.)

I remember so vividly, when Donna started hanging out more and more with RR, thinking, "What in the HELL is that about? Why would someone as sharp as Donna want to hang out with Rosalie. I was shocked. I figured she must be trying to help Rosalie get real. Then I noticed the gradual change. Donna started harping at people in RR's legalistic mode. She was Rosalie's perfect mouthpiece. Her spunky, tell-it-straight, heart-filled manner had gained her a lot of credibility, only now she was using it to spread RR's @#%$ She could get Rosalie's legalistic message out and Rosalie would never have to wipe that $hit-eating grin off her face. RR's perfect patsy!

I remember how Donna shouted at the staff women one day, that they oughta be able to

keep their houses clean and work full-time at HQ and keep their husbands and kids happy and go to all the meetings and classes and quit flippin' whining about having too much to do. This from a woman with God knows how many nannies and housekeepers.

Donna started taking her vacations with RR. They went to Scotland, and they went on shopping excursions, and they went here and there. Never with LCM, but often with Leah and Timmy. And the more Donna was with RR, the harsher and colder and more unlike her former self she became. The change was dramatic and so very sad.

Meanwhile, back to my life. I railed against RR's crap for two years. She didn't edge me out right away. She needed me. I was a good editor and I worked hard at it. So she put up with me, too, but I'm convinced she was still biding her time. I was too "vocal" she said. She hadn't heard vocal yet.

I was running a "regular" Twig in New Knoxville (as opposed to a "Work Twig"). I loved it. I had local people coming who hadn't been fellowshipping for a long while, and staff people whose "Work Twigs" were as bad as ours were in Way Pub. People were getting blessed and so was I, bigtime! Rosalie told me to stop, because my commitment was to be available at any time of the day or night to my staff assignment. I told her I wouldn' t stop.

At the end of two years under RR's regime, three people out of a staff of six editors (not including those who worked exclusively on VPW's books) had had enough of RR. When assignment time came, the three of us all requested to leave the department. RR called us together and said that it couldn' t possibly be God's will for all three of us to leave at once, because it would "decimate editorial."

The other two wouldn't budge. I had put my heart and soul into editorial, helping to establish rapport with the various writers for Way Mag and the other publications; helping to establish editorial standards in areas where they'd been lacking. I loved my job.

Rosalie said, "We need you to coordinate editorial" She implied that with all three of us leaving, there would be no continuity and no one to raise up the less experienced editors. She asked me to commit to one more year. Like an idiot, even though I cringed at the very thought of another year with the Ice Queen, I agreed to stay another year. I thought I could be a voice amidst all the "yeses" and help keep things running smoothly. That was at Corps assignment time.

A couple months later, right before Corps Week,

RR had a hush-hush little meeting and put one of her yes-men in charge of editorial.

I was ....ed. The only reason I'd agreed to stay was because she'd said editorial would go to hell in a handbasket if I didn't oversee it. Now I find out, before Corps Week is even over, that she' s unilaterally decided to change my freekin' assignment. I said, "Fine. Then I'll still request an assignment change." Nope, that wasn't good enough. What she wanted was to use my knowledge and experience, take away any authority I had within the department and put someone who thought she was the greatest thing since Jesus Christ over me.

I marched straight to Bob Moynihan, her Cabinet person (whatever they called Dept. Coordinator's coordinators) and said, "Bob, she kept me here under false pretenses. She lied. She manipulated. And now I'm stuck where I didn't want to be, because of her lies." I requested a meeting with her and Bob, so that I could confront her in the presence of a witness. We set up the day and time for the meeting. She called me in. I said, "Where's Bob?" She said, "Oh, I didn't think we needed him. We can just talk." I said, "No way. I want Moynihan here, to hear every word you say and every word I say." She blithered around and then called him.

He said, "Oh, Rosalie told me things were worked out and you didn't need me to meet with you two." I said, "That's a lie." To make a long story short, I confronted her on her manipulation, on her driving away everyone else who ever stood up to her, on her lying. All she could say was, "Oh, Leeyundah, ahm so sorrrah if ah hurt ya feelin's." I said, "For God's sake Rosalie, this isn't about hurt feelings. It's about you lying to me and manipulating me to stay here for one assignment and then changing it on me after all the assignments had been completed."

Bob confronted her. She batted her eyes and mouthed her apology for hurting my feelings again. I resigned, effective the end of the calendar year. I got "guilted" into staying until April.

And for whoever said that RR and Donna held up LCM during his difficult times after PoP. ..If they did, that was BS on Rosalie's part, too. When her guard was down, her contempt for Craig showed through her sweet, supportive facade. And for all her fawning over VPW and and her public obedience to every word that came out of his mouth. That was @#%$ too. We'd overhear her telling the dept. receptionist, "If Dr. Wierwille calls, tell him you don't know where I am."

I have already made this way too long, but I could cite example after example of her manipulation and legalism. Months ago when I asked if anyone had ever heard RR speak in tongues, I wasn't joking around. I meant it. She turned Way Productions into a sappy, white-bread version of its former self. She wormed her way into Donna and LCM's life. She wormed her way into a spot on the Big Three.

People want to always talk about how badly Craig has hurt twi, and I've been one of them. At least he started out with some passion for God and some tenderness and some integrity. I never saw any of those things from Rosalie Rivenbark. I saw a cold, calculating, syrupy sweet fox. She was as sweet as could be if you didn't cross her. If you did, you'd be gone. If she couldn't silence you, she'd get rid of you. At least that was one good thing she did for people.

[Radar OReilly]

Well....we know that the fox is ruling the hen house for starters!

ROR

[WaywardWayfer]

"Six months ago, while all at TWI HQ are undergoing extreme austerity measures with the "emergency financial cutbacks," Rosalie saw fit to spend over $20,000 on a sailing boat."

Lesbians living in her basement?

Cats despite the "no serious pet" policy?

Owning lots of property despite the demands to live on a "need basis"?

Did she personally draw up and approve the 2+ million dollar expansion to the corps chalet, too?

[insurgent]

just a little more I found:

Not only is Rosalie the smiling phoney, but Harve Platig has been her puppet since Bob W****g***** left the WOW Auditorium overseer position. Never have I seen two such artificially "sweet" people in my life! My personal ouster from twi was orchestrated and choreographed by that dynamic duo. It was through a letter penned by the Ice Queen herself that I learned I was forbidden to set foot on twi grounds and that I would be arrested if I dared. This letter was left inside my house (which was not twi property), on my dining room table by someone who apparently entered the house during the day while I was at work and my children were at school.

Rosalie's "roomies" in the basement were conspicuously overlooked when lcm began his homo-hunt back in '92(?), or whatever year it was. So many people questioned their relationship that at least on one occasion I remember lcm mentioning that they were "former" lesbians and that their expertise in that area enabled them to advise the trustees in dealing with the purge. What a crock! And for RR to have lived with them for so many years only reenforces the aspersions which have been cast on her relationship with Donna. The two of them together, especially after Dorothy Grace came along, were a chilling sight. But I have never felt sorry for Donna. She has known about VPW and lcm and all the rest of them all along. Small price to pay for the lifestyle of the rich and famous, huh?

---------------------------------- --------------------------------------------

And the sick thing about this is, she knew ALL of the CRIMES even as LCM was swearing her in as a BOT!

----------------- -------------------------------------------------------------

I remember her installation as a trustee. Afterward, she read a speech praising LCM. Very strange. If this was such a key spiritual position, I thought God should have been given the glory and professed allegiance of her heart.

It' s chilling to think that RFR may have played such a key role in the destruction of the ministry. Someone who had been on staff said that LCM trusted RFR and was blind to the evil.

Are we saying she incrementally wormed her way into being president?

Xxxxx

Allegiance to God from a woman who, when I said to her during a staff evaluation that I was so busy going to meetings and classes and mandatory functions on top of doing my job that I barely had time to read my Bible, responded: "Oh, you don't need to read the Bible. You read The Way Magazine every day."

Meet your President, those of you who are still in and thinking LCM's demise will improve twi. This woman is a self-promoting weasel who will stop at nothing to keep herself and her pals in possession of the prime real estate of twi power. That she's the head of what is purported to be a BIBLICAL research ministry would be downright laughable if it weren't so sad.

xxxx

But back to Rosalie: Here's another tidbit that illustrates her "leadership" style. A week or two before my servitude under Rosalie was to end, our work "Twigs" were having Twig night. A couple people wanted to go watch somebody's Bible lands tour home movies, and a couple others said, "Hey, Lxxx's got a lot of packing and stuff to do. We'd like to go to her place and help her." I thanked those who volunteered to help (I didn't suggest this...they offered) and said to our TC, "Hey, why don't the ones who want to go to the movie thing do that, and the rest of us can hang out at my place and get a pizza."

Heavens no! My replacement (whom I love still despite this junk that he got sucked into) as editorial' s TC apparently could not make such a weighty decision without first consulting Rosalie. When she heard that we "weren' t likeminded" she said, as if to a classroom full of 2nd- graders, "If you all can't decide something to do together, fine; you'll all stay in the office and work." Mind you, we were not arguing about this. We simply wanted to do two different things and we were perfectly fine with some doing one and some doing the other.

Even her yes-men and -women were astounded by this. And btw, hey Rosalie, we didn't work a *lick* that night. Not even one of us. We all sat on the floor of our office and talked about how legalistic HQ was becoming and how sick we were of being treated like children. *All* of us. Even your devoted ones.

xxxx

Now if she knew what was going on, as is clearly stated above, then why did it take them 5 years to consider these matters serious enough to 'do the right thing'. Is there perhaps another reason. On 10/20/2000, they admitted to knowing LCM was doing this in June of 1998. I was involved in an confrontation with LCM regarding his sexual practices during the June Advanced Class 1998.

On 10 /20 /0000 the papers reported on the Allens case:

------------------

'In June 1998, the Board of Trustees learned Martindale had a sexual relationship with another follower of The Way. Board members "chastised" Martindale and took steps to guard against another incident. The board learned of the encounters with Allen in March 1999, but the motion explained that since those encounters predated June 1998 and the measures the board took then, board members decided no additional action was necessary. '

-----------------

Reply rivenbark

------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------

believe me now or believe me later......rivenbark knew ALL ABOUT EVERYTHING way before 1995......she was as aware of the myriad sordid details in 1986.... that i personally know.....probably even before that. ....why would any honest or self-respecting human being agree to be the prez of that rotten-to-the-corps outfit???....unless she's got plenty of her own skeletons to keep in her dank, steamy closets over there at crotch-haven.....er...skuse me.....foxhaven? .....can you 'splain these things to us miss rosalie fox rivenbark? .....or would such 'splainin' tarnish your standing in the social register??.....

---------------------------------------- --------------------------------------

I for one believe that RR did know about LCM's activities. I have no proof, but I feel pretty certain about this.

When Rosalie had made her denials, those that were furious with her after reading the article, believed her. She convinced all present.

I wish we could have some proof that RR knew about stuff.

xxxx

Although I didn't know Rosalie well, I did know Donna well. I watched as Rosalie started sinking her hooks into Donna and as she started isolating Donna from many people around her. Rosalie wanted Donna to herself. Under Rosalie's influence, Donna, who always was strong but compassionate, lost the compassion and just became hard. But, in my opinion, they are perfect for each other. Both wanted power, both wanted to be "at the top," and both wanted to "whisper in the kings ear." Believe Ralph, I guarantee you Rosalie knew about things for years.

I know Donna offered one friend of mine, who was married to a "high profile" person, and who was getting a divorce, that if they'd stay together, there were plenty of married men Donna could set her up with to "take care of her needs." This was the early-mid '80s. Rosalie knew back then, not just since '95. Donna and Rosalie were, more emotionally married to each other than Donna and Craig. As long as Rosalie is at H.Q., Donna will never leave, unless of course Rosalie betrays Donna and stabs her in the back and gets rid of her to consolidate her power.

As for Safety, they know everything. I used to spend hours with those guys on staff at H.Q. and was actually asked if I wanted to join for my next assignment.

I know Donna used to smoke but had quit. I remember one corps week, after the meeting we were hanging out and she really, really wanted a cigarrette. Did she pick it up again? Or did she always smoke, but hid it from everyone?

Denial in TWI is Standard Operating Procedure.

LCM also denied sex with any but one woman!

The Colorado Court Case...which Riverwitch had to now about indicated 4 ....SHE KNEW

[Pirate1974]

quote:

---

To the best of my knowledge, SHE CURRENTLY OWNS PROPERTY IN NEW BERN, NC. This fact is not known by hardly any Way people. She sends the various taxing authorities checks to cover her taxes annually.

---

Rosalie Rivenbark's property is in the public records of Craven County, NC. Anybody can look it up to see where it is and how much it's worth..

If you're interested:

Craven County GIS

The Parcel ID is 6-204-002.

Be patient. This site can be very, very slow.

[simpleton]

quote:

---

Donna started taking her vacations with RR. They went to Scotland, and they went on shopping excursions, and they went here and there. Never with LCM, but often with Leah and Timmy. And the more Donna was with RR, the harsher and colder and more unlike her former self she became. The change was dramatic and so very sad.

---

They went to Scotland????? We are told to take vacations close to home and they went to Scotland?!?! WTF? And why did they go together and why not lcm? Yeah, that's your normal family life. --> -->

Isn't one of rfr's sons in jail?

I wonder what would happen if we posted something in her hometown newspaper asking people to contact us for information about her... What is she hiding that she goes to such great lengths to keep her name and face off the internet?

[simpleton]

HAS anyone heard this fox speak in tongues? I haven't.

[Linda Z]

Simpleton:

Yes, they went on a jaunt to Scotland when I worked for RFR on staff, not long after twi acquired the Gartmore property but before PoP--I'm thinking it must have been '84 or early

'85.

As for RFR's son, I think we should leave him out of it. Wasn't it enough to have had her for a mother without having his business discussed here because of that unfortunate fact? :)-->

Linda Z

[Twinky]

Hey, I just found this ancient thread. Which is strange because I was just posting on some other thread about RFR owning property.

Here is a fresh link to the website mentioned above - the link indicated doesn't work.

http://gismaps.cravencounty.com/maps/map_c...04%20%20%20-002

So it's 288 acres valued then at just under £100K of forest but seems to have no building improvements. And it's jointly owned (in a previous name for RFR) with Virginia Fox - a sister??

Our poster is not a happy person about RFR...

Edited January 26, 2009 by Twinky

[waysider]

Hey, I just found this ancient thread. Which is strange because I was just posting on some other thread about RFR owning property.

Here is a fresh link to the website mentioned above - the link indicated doesn't work.

http://gismaps.cravencounty.com/maps/map_c...04%20%20%20-002

So it's 288 acres valued then at just under £100K of forest but seems to have no building improvements. And it's jointly owned (in a previous name for RFR) with Virginia Fox - a sister??

Our poster is not a happy person about RFR...

288 acres of N.C. forest??

I wonder what kind of harvest value you're looking at there!

Could be like sitting on a gold mine.

[leafytwiglet]

288 acres of N.C. forest??

I wonder what kind of harvest value you're looking at there!

Could be like sitting on a gold mine.

And don't forget mining rights too if it has been in the family a long time

[Twinky]

bump

[JeffSjo]

Can anybody explain to me why we don't have pictures of her posted regularly?

I would do it if I had them.

[JeffSjo]

I could really go for a section where every BOT/BOD individual was lined up mugshot style.

Given peoples' bad experiences we might need a disclaimer for those who had just eaten....

[GrouchoMarxJr]

After reading this thread, I would have to say that Rosie the riveter, for the most part...get's a free pass at GreaseSpot...relative to which she deserves!!

I remember meeting her for the first time at "pfal 77"...She had been put in charge of some important "operation function" at this event and old Vic was introducing her around. She came across as a southern belle with a sick syrupy southern drawl that invoked vague memories of a horror movie. She reeked of insincerity and her ambition bubbled from her like the fumes of a boiling tar pit. It was clear at that moment that she was a rising star in the false prohet's cult.

I figured that Vic was getting tired of the "hippie chick" image and was trying to inject, what he considered, a more polished and sophisticated look...but who knows, maybe Rosie was polishing Vic's knob.

At any rate, I think that we Greasespotters should be putting the boots to Rosie a little harder...afterall, it's OUR abs money she's still living off of!

Edited May 24, 2010 by GrouchoMarxJr

[Bolshevik]

. . .

At any rate, I think that we Greasespotters should be putting the boots to Rosie a little harder...afterall, it's OUR abs money she's still living off of!

That, and she's a bitch.

[excathedra]

and a lesbian -- i'm not against lesbians -- just hyprocrisy

[excathedra]

and the b ruined or tried to ruin someone's life -- someone i love

i feel like saying something like i look forward to spitting on your grave

my mom would kill me for talking like that

[WordWolf]

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/6604-who-is-rosalie-fox-rivenbark/