Hi John, regarding the buying blessings, can you give the url to where this is stated or an exact quote or reprint of their text? This seems to be a departure from what twi used to teach in the '80's.
Here is an abbreviation of page 15 of The Renewed Mind class------1974
To the end that you apply all 6 of these laws you will manifest the more abundant life.
If you are deficient in applying one law you will not manifest the more than abundant life.
1. The Law Of Believing: As you believe, you receive.
Believing appropriates results.
2. The Law Of Learning: No one can go beyond where he is led.
We can never arise in our walk until we superabound in our study of The Word. Receive The Word with meekness.
3. The Law Of Using Knowledge: The knowledge of The Word must be applied in your life in order to retain it.
4. The Law of Effficiency We must use what we have with haste and precision. We must be efficient in our operation. Redeem the time for the days are evil.
5. The Law of Love Love activates. Until we walk with the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, we will never be activated. Love binds the body together.
6. The Law of Giving and Receiving
As you give, expecting nothing in return, your rewards will be great. God will bless you beyond what you have given. As you give, you receive.
Now, someone may say, "Well, this does not specifically say ABS".
No, it doesn't. But remember that giving to any cause or organization, be it with money or time, was absolutely off-limits in TWI. Thus, it is axiomatic that this reference to giving and receiving is slanted heavily toward giving to TWI.
Miss this one point and-----No abundant life for you, pal.
1. tithe 10% of net income to TWI leadership to obtain material benefits
2. ("abundantly share") more than 10% of net income to obtain spiritual benefits
3. serve at least one-seventh of time and talents
4. generate proper attitudes while giving, particularly joy, love and humbleness
5. give all the above income, time and talents to TWI leadership as "the representative of the most high God here on earth"
These principles must be "operated" both "successfully" and "accurately" in order to obtain blessings and benefits.
Interesting.. what's in the "new" class looks practically identical to doctrine I saw in the 1970's.
The only small difference, is that the "principles" must be "successfully" and "accurately" operated for it to work. In other words, if you lose your house, if your health fails.. apparently you didn't operate the principles "successfully", or "accurately".
Might be part of a legal disclaimer.
WAP's most alarming statement is its claim that TWI is like Melchizedek. Just as Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, so believers today must tithe to TWI.
I wonder if they really read that verse.. it says that Abraham was blessed FIRST, THEN he gave. In other words, he didn't "practice the principle accurately and successfully", and EARN the blessing..
Seems their message is, "tithing, it was good enough for Abraham, it should be good enough for us.."
Interesting that the segment on the Devil masquerading as a lesbian isn't in the new version of WayAP. I'd bet that they never came out and said that this isn't accurate, just pretended that it never existed, like they do with Martindale.
"The Tithe Doth Still Provide" and the other article on Abundant Sharing that are appendixes were written by Martindale, but it does not appear that he is credited.
when VPW used the word "LAW" he didn't use it in the Bible sense, meaning a law of God. Christians have been set from from those kinds of laws through Jesus Christ.
He used it in the "New Thought" (which Christian Science and Unity School of Christianty was based on, popular in the late 1800s to early 1900s) sense- immutable laws of the universe, like gravity, that "saint and sinner" alike can manipulate to their own beneift or ignore to their own hurt. They are a-theistic laws- God has nothing to do with them except by setting them in motion. It's all up to you, not Him. The law of tithing/ prosperity was one of these, though VPW conveniently determined that the giving had to be to him in order to count.
VPW probably picked them up from his mentors such as George Lamsa (who lived on the Unity School of Christianity grounds in his later years), Glenn Clark, Rufus Moseley and Albert Cliffe (who was a spiritist in addition to being New Thought).
VPW wasn't discerning enough to know that New Thought and its "Laws" were completely opposed to Bible teaching.
The Way International Burdens Followers with Laws to Obey to Obtain Blessing
There are five essential laws or principles people must learn to operate successfully in order to obtain blessings, according to The Way International's (TWI) The Way of Abundance and Power class. These laws must be accurately and precisely obeyed:
1. tithe 10% of net income to TWI leadership to obtain material benefits
2. ("abundantly share") more than 10% of net income to obtain spiritual benefits
3. serve at least one-seventh of time and talents
4. generate proper attitudes while giving, particularly joy, love and humbleness
5. give all the above income, time and talents to TWI leadership as "the representative of the most high God here on earth"
Well, at least they are now talking about net income. Doesn't Christians Should be Prosperous talk about gross income? If tithing off the net income, the logic was, then you were putting the government and man's taxes and demands before giving to God and what was legally due to him.
Then at some stage (early 90s??) without any teaching that I can recall, but subtly somehow, it became permissible to give 10% of net income. But about the same time, the ABS required booted up to 15%. So in fact they got about the same amount either way.
I once heard in a church that that was the idea behind keeping the Sabbath. That one seventh of your time would be spent in rest and quiet. Time for family and reflection.
But twi has taken that OT law (which they reject or keep when the mood strikes them) and has turned it inside out.
I guess this is where the brainwashing goes on "spin cycle."
The one seventh of one's time could be skillfully divided between cleaning "leaders" houses, babysitting their kids, setting up and running classes.. shill witnessing at malls and parks, and "door to door".
That amounts to three eight hour work days without lunch time or any kind of break.
I thought the "tithe" of time in the old testament was supposed to be a day of rest.
That's what I meant to say Ham. It's supposed to be a day of rest- but if you're talking "time and talents" then it's pretty obvious that "rest" isn't in the plan.
Well, at least they are now talking about net income. Doesn't Christians Should be Prosperous talk about gross income? If tithing off the net income, the logic was, then you were putting the government and man's taxes and demands before giving to God and what was legally due to him.
CSBP uses the term "net" but offers an example that is clearly "gross" (no pun intended.)
Page 36
"Do you know what the tithe is? It is one-tenth of your net income. If you have earned a dollar, you have ten cents for the Lord. If you get $10.00, you have $1.00, if you have $100.00, it is $10.00."
I, too, heard the same rationalization for why it must be based on gross income and not net.
Here is more.
page 38
"God will open the windows of heaven the moment you lay your tithe at 'the apostle's feet'."
Well, at least they are now talking about net income. Doesn't Christians Should be Prosperous talk about gross income? If tithing off the net income, the logic was, then you were putting the government and man's taxes and demands before giving to God and what was legally due to him.
Then at some stage (early 90s??) without any teaching that I can recall, but subtly somehow, it became permissible to give 10% of net income. But about the same time, the ABS required booted up to 15%. So in fact they got about the same amount either way.
Howard Allen,Then the financial head,said due to the times,as we had to pay taxes,it was "okay" to do
net income instead of gross."Bad ole government"tweety bird interpetation.
I thought the "tithe" of time in the old testament was supposed to be a day of rest.
Jesus said: " Which of you shall have an A$$ or an ox fallen into a pit, and ill not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?"
It seems pretty clear to me that a TWI leader's need for having their lawn mowed or having their a house cleaned on the sabbath ..... is the same thing as having YOUR A$$ fall in a pit.
So it stands to reason that mowing a TWI leader's lawn or cleaning a TWI leader's house on the sabbath is the same as pulling YOUR A$$ out of a pit.
And no one wants their A$$ in a pit on the sabbath ... do they ? Hmmmm ?
Interesting that the most prosperous religion - one that VPW looked up to for their faithfulness to the tithe - the Mormons (LDS) - don't interpret things this way....
This "tithe" is just another criteria of the caste system that TWI has created - they're created a "working class" with this.
when VPW used the word "LAW" he didn't use it in the Bible sense, meaning a law of God. Christians have been set from from those kinds of laws through Jesus Christ.
He used it in the "New Thought" (which Christian Science and Unity School of Christianty was based on, popular in the late 1800s to early 1900s) sense- immutable laws of the universe, like gravity, that "saint and sinner" alike can manipulate to their own beneift or ignore to their own hurt. They are a-theistic laws- God has nothing to do with them except by setting them in motion. It's all up to you, not Him. The law of tithing/ prosperity was one of these, though VPW conveniently determined that the giving had to be to him in order to count. ...
I agree in part .... Although he did write in CSBP that the best place to tithe was (not to himself but) to a biblical research ministry rightly dividing the Word, that doesn't mean it did not count elsewhere. As I recall CSBP says that tithing is immutable and worked for everyone who applied it. He specifically cited the Mormons as those who applied it and prospered. Also, being an immutable law suggests that it is colorblind and would work for everyone (saint and sinner alike) who met that condition irrespective of religious beliefs, race, color or creed. This is what VPW taught... I dont believe that tithing is an immutable law anymore but let's at least be accurate about exactly what he said.
I agree in part .... Although he did write in CSBP that the best place to tithe was (not to himself but) to a biblical research ministry rightly dividing the Word, that doesn't mean it did not count elsewhere. As I recall CSBP says that tithing is immutable and worked for everyone who applied it. He specifically cited the Mormons as those who applied it and prospered. Also, being an immutable law suggests that it is colorblind and would work for everyone (saint and sinner alike) who met that condition irrespective of religious beliefs, race, color or creed. This is what VPW taught... I dont believe that tithing is an immutable law anymore but let's at least be accurate about exactly what he said.
Oh come on, Oldies. You know he thought TWI (=himself) was the only place capable of "rightly dividing the Word." You know he disparaged churches and religious organizations of all sorts.
You know he mocked those who gave to other organizations and didn't put their tithe in the place best able to use it (=TWI). Yes, he said that about the Mormons in CSBP. He said, they tithed and they were prosperous. The implication was clear, they gave to their own organization. Which became rich. But then he said or at least implied that one would "get more" if the money were handed over to the organization "rightly dividing" the Word.
I know nothing of the sort. All I know is to go by what he taught and wrote and at this point refrain from making an assumption. And no, tithing to VPW IS DIFFERENT than tithing to twi. He didn't say "tithe to the man of God" or even "tithe to me". He said what he said, let's be accurate. I think TWI was much more than just VPW alone. Words mean something and I oppose fudging words like that.
Well, we were to lay the tithe at the Apostle's feet in order to have the windows of heaven open and pour out a blessing, and who was that apostle after all? That One Man Of God for His Day and Time and Hour? Why, son-of-a-biscuit-eater if it wasn't our very own VPW!!!!
So, yeah, there was definitely some spin on that verse. And anyway, the Pharisees in the Gospels were really into titheing because they kept it all themselves. Hmmm, maybe a bit of a parallel there?
In retrospect, TWI never helped its own people from the corporate level,even on the local level if you had need to got reproof not assistance.
My little church plant may not be all that big and magnificent and impressive, I mean we are just starting out, but we have a big pile of nonperishable goods for our town's food pantry in the lobby. No strings attached. And I personally look forward to the day when we are a big church plant and doing it ourselves.
If Jesus was a free gift to all of us, why should we have to pay God for blessings?
This is all so senseless. And do they really come right out now and say they are the only ones with access to the Almighty?
I know nothing of the sort. All I know is to go by what he taught and wrote and at this point refrain from making an assumption. And no, tithing to VPW IS DIFFERENT than tithing to twi. He didn't say "tithe to the man of God" or even "tithe to me". He said what he said, let's be accurate. I think TWI was much more than just VPW alone. Words mean something and I oppose fudging words like that.
______________
Loading Comment
TRUTHFULNESS - earning future trust by accurately reporting past facts.
the whole premise of pfal, and tithing, etc.. wasn't it to tap into the RESOURCES?
Yeah.. the "resources" for the "more abundant life"..
five things to know receive ANYTHING from God..
it's almost like.. they turned God into a clerk, who would rubber stamp your request, if you got all the details right on the form..
or a fiendish welfare officer, who wouldn't release needed funds unless one greased his palm with ten percent or more of meager earnings..
"don't even bother to pray, unless you tithe.."
so here I sit.. less than 150.00 in the bank.. going to school in the hopefully second half of my life.. trying to scrape out a living.. what happened to all of those years of giving fifteen percent? I should be super-rich.
Where's the payoff?
Oh. I forgot. I musta not "practiced *all* of the "principles" *accurately*.. maybe I need a few more hoops to jump through..
What a con game.. it's almost as honest as trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge..
"buying blessings.." I would rename that.. "commercializing spirituality".
then over the years, it slowly morphed into, not buying blessings, but paying for disaster insurance. "well, you may be dirt poor, etc. but don't complain. it could be far worse.. imagine what may have happened if you didn't tithe.."
Personally, I wouldn't want a god who could be BOUGHT. I mean, that would make him inferior to me, wouldn't it?
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now I see
Hi John, regarding the buying blessings, can you give the url to where this is stated or an exact quote or reprint of their text? This seems to be a departure from what twi used to teach in the '80's.
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waysider
http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/cultsthe.htm
http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/tw_new.htm
http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/rsr_buyBlessings.htm
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waysider
Here is an abbreviation of page 15 of The Renewed Mind class------1974
To the end that you apply all 6 of these laws you will manifest the more abundant life.
If you are deficient in applying one law you will not manifest the more than abundant life.
1. The Law Of Believing: As you believe, you receive.
Believing appropriates results.
2. The Law Of Learning: No one can go beyond where he is led.
We can never arise in our walk until we superabound in our study of The Word. Receive The Word with meekness.
3. The Law Of Using Knowledge: The knowledge of The Word must be applied in your life in order to retain it.
4. The Law of Effficiency We must use what we have with haste and precision. We must be efficient in our operation. Redeem the time for the days are evil.
5. The Law of Love Love activates. Until we walk with the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, we will never be activated. Love binds the body together.
6. The Law of Giving and Receiving
As you give, expecting nothing in return, your rewards will be great. God will bless you beyond what you have given. As you give, you receive.
Now, someone may say, "Well, this does not specifically say ABS".
No, it doesn't. But remember that giving to any cause or organization, be it with money or time, was absolutely off-limits in TWI. Thus, it is axiomatic that this reference to giving and receiving is slanted heavily toward giving to TWI.
Miss this one point and-----No abundant life for you, pal.
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Rejoice
Funny how we weren't flagged by the word "Law."
It would have been more accurately stated as the "Principles" of Believing, Tithing, etc.
Jesus was the END of the Law!
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Ham
Interesting.. what's in the "new" class looks practically identical to doctrine I saw in the 1970's.
The only small difference, is that the "principles" must be "successfully" and "accurately" operated for it to work. In other words, if you lose your house, if your health fails.. apparently you didn't operate the principles "successfully", or "accurately".
Might be part of a legal disclaimer.
I wonder if they really read that verse.. it says that Abraham was blessed FIRST, THEN he gave. In other words, he didn't "practice the principle accurately and successfully", and EARN the blessing..
Seems their message is, "tithing, it was good enough for Abraham, it should be good enough for us.."
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Oakspear
Interesting that the segment on the Devil masquerading as a lesbian isn't in the new version of WayAP. I'd bet that they never came out and said that this isn't accurate, just pretended that it never existed, like they do with Martindale.
"The Tithe Doth Still Provide" and the other article on Abundant Sharing that are appendixes were written by Martindale, but it does not appear that he is credited.
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johnj
when VPW used the word "LAW" he didn't use it in the Bible sense, meaning a law of God. Christians have been set from from those kinds of laws through Jesus Christ.
He used it in the "New Thought" (which Christian Science and Unity School of Christianty was based on, popular in the late 1800s to early 1900s) sense- immutable laws of the universe, like gravity, that "saint and sinner" alike can manipulate to their own beneift or ignore to their own hurt. They are a-theistic laws- God has nothing to do with them except by setting them in motion. It's all up to you, not Him. The law of tithing/ prosperity was one of these, though VPW conveniently determined that the giving had to be to him in order to count.
VPW probably picked them up from his mentors such as George Lamsa (who lived on the Unity School of Christianity grounds in his later years), Glenn Clark, Rufus Moseley and Albert Cliffe (who was a spiritist in addition to being New Thought).
VPW wasn't discerning enough to know that New Thought and its "Laws" were completely opposed to Bible teaching.
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Twinky
Extracted from John Juedes's paper:
Well, at least they are now talking about net income. Doesn't Christians Should be Prosperous talk about gross income? If tithing off the net income, the logic was, then you were putting the government and man's taxes and demands before giving to God and what was legally due to him.
Then at some stage (early 90s??) without any teaching that I can recall, but subtly somehow, it became permissible to give 10% of net income. But about the same time, the ABS required booted up to 15%. So in fact they got about the same amount either way.
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doojable
"One seventh of time and talents"?
I once heard in a church that that was the idea behind keeping the Sabbath. That one seventh of your time would be spent in rest and quiet. Time for family and reflection.
But twi has taken that OT law (which they reject or keep when the mood strikes them) and has turned it inside out.
I guess this is where the brainwashing goes on "spin cycle."
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Ham
The one seventh of one's time could be skillfully divided between cleaning "leaders" houses, babysitting their kids, setting up and running classes.. shill witnessing at malls and parks, and "door to door".
That amounts to three eight hour work days without lunch time or any kind of break.
I thought the "tithe" of time in the old testament was supposed to be a day of rest.
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doojable
That's what I meant to say Ham. It's supposed to be a day of rest- but if you're talking "time and talents" then it's pretty obvious that "rest" isn't in the plan.
spin- wash- spin - repeat
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Ham
I saw that after I posted. Seems we were both posting the same thing at the same time..
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waysider
CSBP uses the term "net" but offers an example that is clearly "gross" (no pun intended.)
Page 36
"Do you know what the tithe is? It is one-tenth of your net income. If you have earned a dollar, you have ten cents for the Lord. If you get $10.00, you have $1.00, if you have $100.00, it is $10.00."
I, too, heard the same rationalization for why it must be based on gross income and not net.
Here is more.
page 38
"God will open the windows of heaven the moment you lay your tithe at 'the apostle's feet'."
page 39
"Don't pray for prosperity if you don't tithe".
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frank123lol
Howard Allen,Then the financial head,said due to the times,as we had to pay taxes,it was "okay" to do
net income instead of gross."Bad ole government"tweety bird interpetation.
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Goey
Jesus said: " Which of you shall have an A$$ or an ox fallen into a pit, and ill not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?"
It seems pretty clear to me that a TWI leader's need for having their lawn mowed or having their a house cleaned on the sabbath ..... is the same thing as having YOUR A$$ fall in a pit.
So it stands to reason that mowing a TWI leader's lawn or cleaning a TWI leader's house on the sabbath is the same as pulling YOUR A$$ out of a pit.
And no one wants their A$$ in a pit on the sabbath ... do they ? Hmmmm ?
Innies ........Best get mowing and cleaning.
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ChasUFarley
Interesting that the most prosperous religion - one that VPW looked up to for their faithfulness to the tithe - the Mormons (LDS) - don't interpret things this way....
This "tithe" is just another criteria of the caste system that TWI has created - they're created a "working class" with this.
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oldiesman
I agree in part .... Although he did write in CSBP that the best place to tithe was (not to himself but) to a biblical research ministry rightly dividing the Word, that doesn't mean it did not count elsewhere. As I recall CSBP says that tithing is immutable and worked for everyone who applied it. He specifically cited the Mormons as those who applied it and prospered. Also, being an immutable law suggests that it is colorblind and would work for everyone (saint and sinner alike) who met that condition irrespective of religious beliefs, race, color or creed. This is what VPW taught... I dont believe that tithing is an immutable law anymore but let's at least be accurate about exactly what he said.
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Twinky
Oh come on, Oldies. You know he thought TWI (=himself) was the only place capable of "rightly dividing the Word." You know he disparaged churches and religious organizations of all sorts.
You know he mocked those who gave to other organizations and didn't put their tithe in the place best able to use it (=TWI). Yes, he said that about the Mormons in CSBP. He said, they tithed and they were prosperous. The implication was clear, they gave to their own organization. Which became rich. But then he said or at least implied that one would "get more" if the money were handed over to the organization "rightly dividing" the Word.
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oldiesman
I know nothing of the sort. All I know is to go by what he taught and wrote and at this point refrain from making an assumption. And no, tithing to VPW IS DIFFERENT than tithing to twi. He didn't say "tithe to the man of God" or even "tithe to me". He said what he said, let's be accurate. I think TWI was much more than just VPW alone. Words mean something and I oppose fudging words like that.
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Twinky
Oh. Really. Hnph.
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Watered Garden
"Brainwashing goes on spin cycle"
Well, we were to lay the tithe at the Apostle's feet in order to have the windows of heaven open and pour out a blessing, and who was that apostle after all? That One Man Of God for His Day and Time and Hour? Why, son-of-a-biscuit-eater if it wasn't our very own VPW!!!!
So, yeah, there was definitely some spin on that verse. And anyway, the Pharisees in the Gospels were really into titheing because they kept it all themselves. Hmmm, maybe a bit of a parallel there?
In retrospect, TWI never helped its own people from the corporate level,even on the local level if you had need to got reproof not assistance.
My little church plant may not be all that big and magnificent and impressive, I mean we are just starting out, but we have a big pile of nonperishable goods for our town's food pantry in the lobby. No strings attached. And I personally look forward to the day when we are a big church plant and doing it ourselves.
If Jesus was a free gift to all of us, why should we have to pay God for blessings?
This is all so senseless. And do they really come right out now and say they are the only ones with access to the Almighty?
WG
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WhiteDove
______________
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TRUTHFULNESS - earning future trust by accurately reporting past facts.
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Ham
amazing..
the whole premise of pfal, and tithing, etc.. wasn't it to tap into the RESOURCES?
Yeah.. the "resources" for the "more abundant life"..
five things to know receive ANYTHING from God..
it's almost like.. they turned God into a clerk, who would rubber stamp your request, if you got all the details right on the form..
or a fiendish welfare officer, who wouldn't release needed funds unless one greased his palm with ten percent or more of meager earnings..
"don't even bother to pray, unless you tithe.."
so here I sit.. less than 150.00 in the bank.. going to school in the hopefully second half of my life.. trying to scrape out a living.. what happened to all of those years of giving fifteen percent? I should be super-rich.
Where's the payoff?
Oh. I forgot. I musta not "practiced *all* of the "principles" *accurately*.. maybe I need a few more hoops to jump through..
What a con game.. it's almost as honest as trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge..
"buying blessings.." I would rename that.. "commercializing spirituality".
then over the years, it slowly morphed into, not buying blessings, but paying for disaster insurance. "well, you may be dirt poor, etc. but don't complain. it could be far worse.. imagine what may have happened if you didn't tithe.."
Personally, I wouldn't want a god who could be BOUGHT. I mean, that would make him inferior to me, wouldn't it?
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ChasUFarley
Don't you mean, "Loaded Comment" ?
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