... however when it came to things that had to do with religious stuff, the spirit world was invoked more often than not as a reason or explanation because reason was not factor in Christian religious beliefs until Luther.
Such as mental illness being MISdiagnosed as 'demon spirits'.
I do not believe that once a Christian is born again (Romans 10:9-10) that they can be possessed by an evil spirit. I believe they can be tempted and influenced to commit sin, but I do not believe they can be possessed.
Do you know of any scripture that would indicate that I am wrong. Many scriptures come to mind that I believe support my thinking that a born again Christian cannot be possessed, for instance....we were bought with a price (Jesus Christ dies for us) and other scripture like 1 John 4:4 "...and have overcome THEM because greater is he that is IN YOU than he that is in the world."
I am interested in knowing of any scripture on either side of this topic.
when it comes to lot of "spiritual" matters I find myself gravitating toward a position of I-just-don't-know. Since I left TWI my thought process has evolved into some kind of rationalism/empiricism combo [as illustrated in the latter part of my post].
Don't know if that's the correct way to put it – maybe just expanding the scope of critical thinking – it's basically me trying to do a better job of applying my reasoning skills not only with the biblical data but also stacking that up against personal experiences & observations. Not saying I figured out much – it's mostly been a matter of putting things in the I-don't-know pile [which often becomes the and-I-don't-care-to-spend-anymore-time-on-it-either pile as well].
Since the Bible is a religious book it is therefore extremely malleable imho, and lends itself quite easily to a wide variety of interpretations & applications. My philosophy on managing my belief system is: when in doubt, leave it out. That doesn't mean to throw it out necessarily or even to totally forget about it – sometimes it's just given a state of flux status with a very low priority.
revision: Frequently it was used as a control tactic or as an excuse for lack of control.
There was some understanding of the human mind during the time people were writing down the stories used to make a point about Jesus (more than I was aware of until recently), however when it came to things that had to do with religious stuff, the spirit world was invoked more often than not as a reason or explanation because reason was not factor in Christian religious beliefs until Luther.
A quick search of "possessed" and "spirits" through blueletterbible.com doesn't make the point unequivocally one way or the other in my estimation. Some of the people who had spirits cast out could have been Christians, but it doesn't say unambiguously one way or the other. So we are left logical thought processes to figure it out.
One thing that I am struck with is that the process of getting possessed doesn't seem to be clearly spelled out. We are just presented with these examples of people who are possessed (or "demonized" if you will) or who "have spirits". Again, we are left to our own logical thought processes to figure out how it happens. Within TWI it was supposed to happen due to uncontrolled thoughts and ungodly habit patterns. What does "mainstream" Christianity teach about it?
Such as mental illness being MISdiagnosed as 'demon spirits'.
<_<
latter part of my post
I think there's a few different takes on demon possession in mainstream Christianity – from charismatics and fundamentalists who chalk up most problems to demon possession or demonic influence to more conservative folks like Jay Adams who focus on confronting the individual [the human ] over a specific sin and prescribing repentance. Most of the Christian stuff I've read doesn't get into the medical science resources available – and as far as I'm concerned there's rampant misdiagnosing by even some well-meaning folks. More on this on a personal level in a little bit.
~~
demon possession falls into my I-don't-know-and-I-don't-care-to-spend-anymore-time-on-it-either pile.
~~
demon possession seems to be exclusively covered by the gospels [with a few passages in Acts]. That leads me to think it may have been one of the many special aspects of Jesus' unique ministry that authenticated both His ministry and that of His apostles.
Demonic activity may be a slightly different subject – with a greater emphasis on their role above and beyond any human agency – there's a smattering of OT accounts and it's covered quite a bit in the book of Revelation.
Getting back to demon possession – I tend to look at the gospels as authentic accounts – but do not think they're addressing any mental illnesses we're familiar with. I DO see a distinction made between many diseases and devil possession – noting Matthew 10:1 NRSV "Then Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to cure every disease and every sickness."
~~
I tend to think of demon possession as a subcategory, falling under the broader topic of manifestations of the spirit – and do not find much doctrinal or formalized teachings in the Bible on any of that like I see on dealing with sin, various morality issues & conflict resolution, the identity of Jesus Christ, developing our walk of faith & a lifestyle of good works, leadership qualifications, etc.
~~
~~
Reflecting on my life thus far – my "experience" with manifestations of the spirit or demon possession are confined to a 12 year delusional period with TWI. Nowadays I write that off as to what my head was into at the time - - I've come to think of it as falling under a different "law" than TWI's – it's believing equals perceiving– in that we tend to interpret what's happening in life through the lens of our belief system.
But that being said – with a different lens in place and a lot more honesty now, I have to admit I never witnessed an out & out miracle such as on the order of the spectacular biblical accounts – someone raised from the dead, someone deformed, physically traumatized or having some medically documented disease miraculously & instantaneously healed or someone performing superhuman "demonic" feats/said demons being cast out. I'm not into arguing with someone else's experiences – just stating mine.
~~
And picking up on a point made by Garth – I just wanted to add something as one who has dealt with depression most of my life. I got into TWI as a young man and not recognizing depression for what it was – waged an uphill battle to "renew my mind" to it, which amounted to the old grit-your-teeth-and-bear-it thing. At times I figured it was a battle between me and some depressing or oppressive spirit – didn't think I was possessed though. That was a looong dark 12 year journey to nowhere.
After we left TWI, I still pursued some kind of a Christian/biblical approach to depression – reflected in my choice of books & Bible studies and in my prayers. Nothing stupendous to note from all that.
My wife [who had taken giant steps in medical knowledge & early intervention on behalf of our daughter born with down syndrome] was instrumental in getting me to realize my little supposed bugaboo was really something that warranted some serious attention by a medical professional.. . BIG DIFFERENCE after a few months of sessions, checking out cognitive therapy and most importantly a marvelous antidepressant called Serzone!
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GarthP2000
Such as mental illness being MISdiagnosed as 'demon spirits'.
<_<
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T-Bone
when it comes to lot of "spiritual" matters I find myself gravitating toward a position of I-just-don't-know. Since I left TWI my thought process has evolved into some kind of rationalism/empiricism combo [as illustrated in the latter part of my post].
Don't know if that's the correct way to put it – maybe just expanding the scope of critical thinking – it's basically me trying to do a better job of applying my reasoning skills not only with the biblical data but also stacking that up against personal experiences & observations. Not saying I figured out much – it's mostly been a matter of putting things in the I-don't-know pile [which often becomes the and-I-don't-care-to-spend-anymore-time-on-it-either pile as well].
Since the Bible is a religious book it is therefore extremely malleable imho, and lends itself quite easily to a wide variety of interpretations & applications. My philosophy on managing my belief system is: when in doubt, leave it out. That doesn't mean to throw it out necessarily or even to totally forget about it – sometimes it's just given a state of flux status with a very low priority.
latter part of my post
I think there's a few different takes on demon possession in mainstream Christianity – from charismatics and fundamentalists who chalk up most problems to demon possession or demonic influence to more conservative folks like Jay Adams who focus on confronting the individual [the human
] over a specific sin and prescribing repentance. Most of the Christian stuff I've read doesn't get into the medical science resources available – and as far as I'm concerned there's rampant misdiagnosing by even some well-meaning folks. More on this on a personal level in a little bit.
~~
demon possession falls into my I-don't-know-and-I-don't-care-to-spend-anymore-time-on-it-either pile.
~~
demon possession seems to be exclusively covered by the gospels [with a few passages in Acts]. That leads me to think it may have been one of the many special aspects of Jesus' unique ministry that authenticated both His ministry and that of His apostles.
Demonic activity may be a slightly different subject – with a greater emphasis on their role above and beyond any human agency – there's a smattering of OT accounts and it's covered quite a bit in the book of Revelation.
Getting back to demon possession – I tend to look at the gospels as authentic accounts – but do not think they're addressing any mental illnesses we're familiar with. I DO see a distinction made between many diseases and devil possession – noting Matthew 10:1 NRSV "Then Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to cure every disease and every sickness."
~~
I tend to think of demon possession as a subcategory, falling under the broader topic of manifestations of the spirit – and do not find much doctrinal or formalized teachings in the Bible on any of that like I see on dealing with sin, various morality issues & conflict resolution, the identity of Jesus Christ, developing our walk of faith & a lifestyle of good works, leadership qualifications, etc.
~~
~~
Reflecting on my life thus far – my "experience" with manifestations of the spirit or demon possession are confined to a 12 year delusional period with TWI. Nowadays I write that off as to what my head was into at the time - - I've come to think of it as falling under a different "law" than TWI's – it's believing equals perceiving – in that we tend to interpret what's happening in life through the lens of our belief system.
But that being said – with a different lens in place and a lot more honesty now, I have to admit I never witnessed an out & out miracle such as on the order of the spectacular biblical accounts – someone raised from the dead, someone deformed, physically traumatized or having some medically documented disease miraculously & instantaneously healed or someone performing superhuman "demonic" feats/said demons being cast out. I'm not into arguing with someone else's experiences – just stating mine.
~~
And picking up on a point made by Garth – I just wanted to add something as one who has dealt with depression most of my life. I got into TWI as a young man and not recognizing depression for what it was – waged an uphill battle to "renew my mind" to it, which amounted to the old grit-your-teeth-and-bear-it thing. At times I figured it was a battle between me and some depressing or oppressive spirit – didn't think I was possessed though. That was a looong dark 12 year journey to nowhere.
After we left TWI, I still pursued some kind of a Christian/biblical approach to depression – reflected in my choice of books & Bible studies and in my prayers. Nothing stupendous to note from all that.
My wife [who had taken giant steps in medical knowledge & early intervention on behalf of our daughter born with down syndrome] was instrumental in getting me to realize my little supposed bugaboo was really something that warranted some serious attention by a medical professional.. . BIG DIFFERENCE after a few months of sessions, checking out cognitive therapy and most importantly a marvelous antidepressant called Serzone!
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