I will never understand the mind or heart of a child or adult sexual molester. Yes, I know, even as I say this, that it is a cycle of a particular abuse system; but how can they look into the innocent screaming eyes of a precious child and damage them like that. knowing full well; that if it had been done to them, just what it did and STILL not stop themselves.?????
Is that TWI? It's hard to tell the way they printed the name.
I'd say its almost certainly TWI. It's put the way it is in the article, likely, because the reporter isn't familiar with TWI.
I'm not so sure the connection with twi is meaningful from any sort of cause/effect relationship because there are (unfortunately) too many child molesters in plenty of places not associated with twi.
That said, the association in this article is still there and still looks bad from any angle.
Perfect example of how the system works. Each person has the right to pursue their claim in a real court, not the internet version. They can submit testimony for examination ,they can enter evidence, present real facts as opposed to one sided opinions, and then a jury can render a verdict. At which time one can declare guilt or innocence according to the law. Wow what a novel idea........
That is indeed what is wonderful about a court of LAW! What is equally terrific is having a forum available for DISCUSSION concerning our experiences and interactions with perpetrators of great evil and the subsequent impact upon our lives.
Perfect example of how the system works. Each person has the right to pursue their claim in a real court, not the internet version. They can submit testimony for examination ,they can enter evidence, present real facts as opposed to one sided opinions, and then a jury can render a verdict. At which time one can declare guilt or innocence according to the law. Wow what a novel idea........
OH REALLY?? You think the legal system is this country has ANYTHING to do with real justice? Yeah right.
The rich buy their justice and the poor go to jail. Even if you can manage an attorney--the DA can raise such a stink--you can't use the counsel you want.
If you HONESTLY think there is such a thing as justice in our system--you just might be deluded. It is hit or miss-just like this guy got his justice 50 perverts will get off.
I am so tired of hearing about a day in court--you know what a day in court means? All depends on who you are and what the system feels needs to be highlighted. It means NOTHING.
You want to do something good with your time. Find out about Minimum sentencing guidelines and lobby AGAINST THEM.
A day in court in this country has nothing to do with justice--you are better off on the internet--more truth is gleaned there--trust me our legal system BITES!
I have actually seen that as well Geisha. The attorney for the other side was allowed to make absurd accusations towards my friends accuse them of all kinds of things, told lies about the condition of the ware house, etc.
My friends had spent everything that they had to try to clear their name. They would have had to sell their house and business to pay legal fees. Their attorney told them that they would win, that the paper work backed them up entirely, but that in winning the court case, they would lose everything.
The people who had the most money to keep paying their attorney to keep stalling until my friends ran out of money won, and then...go figure the attorney magically became the president of the new board, the accuser vp, her friends all voted off the remaining members and seized the charity that my friends had started from a garage and managed to raise 100s of thousands of dollars to help battered women and children was taken from them their reputations destroyed.
The accusers never had to answere for the slander. Of course being a small town, it`s all who you know, and the newspaper only reported it from the accusers perspective. All very sensational that way, and they never printed a retraction.
You have a very valid point Geisha.
I am truly thankful to Pawtucket for this site so that we can tell people what twi`s millions in attornies, and hush money have been able to keep secret from the public for so many many years.
That is indeed what is wonderful about a court of LAW! What is equally terrific is having a forum available for DISCUSSION concerning our experiences and interactions with perpetrators of great evil and the subsequent impact upon our lives.
What a concept :)
I agree as long as it is discussion and people presenting their opinion, when it croses the line to statements of confirmed guilt without the above then it ceases to be discussion.
OH REALLY?? You think the legal system is this country has ANYTHING to do with real justice? Yeah right.
The rich buy their justice and the poor go to jail. Even if you can manage an attorney--the DA can raise such a stink--you can't use the counsel you want.
If you HONESTLY think there is such a thing as justice in our system--you just might be deluded. It is hit or miss-just like this guy got his justice 50 perverts will get off.
I am so tired of hearing about a day in court--you know what a day in court means? All depends on who you are and what the system feels needs to be highlighted. It means NOTHING.
You want to do something good with your time. Find out about Minimum sentencing guidelines and lobby AGAINST THEM.
A day in court in this country has nothing to do with justice--you are better off on the internet--more truth is gleaned there--trust me our legal system BITES!
No one has disagreed that our system has it's flaws and your points are well taken I don't disagree. But it is our law ,the best we have, maybe it will improve ,maybe not. I would strongly disagree that people making random accusations undocumented on the internet has any better outcome. Without due process of law nothing gets done other than people with various opinions pointing fingers.
Any system or program is bound to have it's flaws, the best we can hope for is to minimize those. There are people who have bad experiences at battered women shelters as well. Do we ignore the good done there because they are not perfect? I recently joined forces with a program here with the dog park to house battered women's and homeless peoples pets until they get relocated. they will be fed, housed and receive veterinary care while their owners are housed at the shelter at no cost to them. I'm sure some people will eventually have a problem with the program, I hope not, but it is a reality that might happen. But to scrap the system because it has flaws, would be a loss to me anyway. Our justice system is far from perfect but I feel the same about it.
me is free to pretend otherwise, especially if it's their opinion
Yep I agree, one can pretend anything they want , it does not make it true,or false, and as long as they are not declaring guilt or innocence as if it is a established fact , implying that there has benn some sort of conviction, certainly have a right to express their opinion. Like wise others may point out there has been no such legal verdict, and as such it is only an opinion not established fact.
In other news,
I'm glad another of twi's felons has been caught by the long arm of the law.
Me too however I don't think it has beeen established that they were a TWI felon.
then again it may have been confirmed guilty to your satisfaction.
No one has disagreed that our system has it's flaws and your points are well taken I don't disagree. But it is our law ,the best we have, maybe it will improve ,maybe not. I would strongly disagree that people making random accusations undocumented on the internet has any better outcome. Without due process of law nothing gets done other than people with various opinions pointing fingers.
Any system or program is bound to have it's flaws, the best we can hope for is to minimize those. There are people who have bad experiences at battered women shelters as well. Do we ignore the good done there because they are not perfect? I recently joined forces with a program here with the dog park to house battered women's and homeless peoples pets until they get relocated. they will be fed, housed and receive veterinary care while their owners are housed at the shelter at no cost to them. I'm sure some people will eventually have a problem with the program, I hope not, but it is a reality that might happen. But to scrap the system because it has flaws, would be a loss to me anyway. Our justice system is far from perfect but I feel the same about it.
White Dove,
THANKYOU for your service to these women and their pets! Not a small thing, to have some comfort knowing your animals are cared for in the midst of such trials. I am glad to hear of this program, and more than a bit enlightened by your participation. God Bless you.
White Dove, our system is more than flawed. It is not what you might think it is--in fact, the way you speak of a day in court implies you don't know the depth of the problem. It is a boken clearinghouse that really does have very little to do with justice and less to do with gleaning the truth. I promise you this is the case. Talk to any public defender--if you can catch a moment when they are not over-worked-underpaid-and frustrated. Find out about the system.
I never said scrap the system. We need to reform it. Advocacy is the way to do this--there are groups out here who lobby for reform. We HAVE to overturn the laws in place that cause so much needless suffering. I am talking about laws that are actually unjust and used wrongly. There are people who make decisions on the lives of others based on politics and power. People are thrown away on another's ambition.
Please consider finding out about the minimum sentencing guidelines in your state---take the time to write a letter and sign an online petition. Federal guidelines have been reworked--and retroacitvely people have been released from prision. This is an important element.
If you have the death penalty in your state--find out about the system in those cases. You may be shocked as to who is executed--who is not.
As for TWI, Whitedove there is no day in court on this earth for VP. I know you feel strongly about this, but it is not to be. Even if it were, he had the money to purchase his justice, much like TWI did with Martindale. They settled. LCM never heard a verdict? It was enough--some kind of implied admission of guilt, but remember the court allows for this without holding his feet to the fire. Is that really justice--he walked away.
I understand it was best for those bringing suit--that is NOT my point--I stand firmly with the ones bringing suit and can't imagine the courage it took to do as they did. I am supportive of whatever was best for them and their families! . . . . . But TWI kinda bought their get out of jail free card with a settlement. The ugly truth was never exposed in court.
People need to be heard WD--walking wounded whose lives have been damaged. They need a voice--it lends itself to healing. A court is not the only place to be heard. A group of survivors can be a great place to vent. What is so great is that there ARE built in stop-gaps. Voices like yours who dissent with the majority.
Dissent away--according to the rules. Advocating an impossible scenario where a fictious "justice" will take place and "truth" will be told--is not dissent. It isn't. Tell us what was so good about TWI--I will listen to your voice . Calling things "unjust" and "illegal" when they clearly are not just makes me roll my eyes and sigh. You are ineffectual when you do this, and if you have a point about the goodness in TWI it is not being heard.
Have a conversation White Dove. We all are aware of your concern with justice. I don't think it has moved many of us. . . . it has not yet silenced us--nor will it. If you want to make us think--use your wit and participate--tell us of your good memories. We all have some of TWI--even me.
Oh and verdicts are RARELY overturned--or reversed--verdicts that are given in a plea agreement--which are MOST--will NOT be reversed or overturned--there is an admission of guilt--whether real or just is up for serious debate. All depends on who you are and how much money you have. A public defender rarely wins--that is why the poor plead out. It is a broken system--which is why our prisons are over-crowded with NON VIOLENT offenders.
I guess that sounds pretty rediculous to me. We discuss what happened and then we form our own opinions as to why.
So folks get outraged as to what these pervs did in God`s name, and express that opinion...shrug I don`t understand trying to hide the evil perpetrated or not examining the ominous implications of men and women whom could behave in such a way.
That is what Greasespot is here for, to tell the OTHER side of the story...OURS! The story that twi managed to keep silent through intimidation, manipulation, excomunication, lies, slandered reputations, and millions in legal fees.
Darned RIGHT many of us have an opinion on that, and gosh darn it, are free to express it, as distasteful as some may find it, as doggedly as a few have tried to once again silence the voices of those mistreated and abused.
Yes, TWI is incorporated in AZ. I outta know, I live there and a group of Twiggers meet down the street from my house. Anyone care to go to a fellowship meeting with me?? ;)
That is what Greasespot is here for, to tell the OTHER side of the story...OURS! The story that twi managed to keep silent through intimidation, manipulation, excomunication, lies, slandered reputations, and millions in legal fees.
Darned RIGHT many of us have an opinion on that, and gosh darn it, are free to express it, as distasteful as some may find it, as doggedly as a few have tried to once again silence the voices of those mistreated and abused.
Straw man argument....... I see no evidence of anyone silencing any voice, nor anyone declaring that they want to ,or even would like such a thing to happen , this is your invention purely. In fact time and again I have seen people go out of their way to post over and over that certainly opinions are welcome, that is the purpose of a discussion fourm.
But opinions are just that ,they are not necessarily fact, or factual, when they are assumed to be so , due to likeability of the speaker, agreement with the mission, or agenda at hand and other reasons rather than the generally accepted methods we have in place for determining what is and what is not factual then I see some having a problem with declaration of truth without the supporting evidence of such.
How many of these abused women that you see never see any kind of real justice from the legal system in the United States?
How many are too intimidated or too forgiving to go after the abuser?
How many have tried, only to be out spent and out litigated by the abusers high priced lawyers?
Personally, I'm glad to see this one abuser appear to have the long arm of the law catch up to him, but since you seem to be in a position to have some exposure to abused people, I'm wondering if you would be willing to share your experiential knowledge of your estimate of the percentage of incidents of abuse that see adequate reckoning in the courts.
My slightly less informed opinion is that the percentage is very low, that is that many incidents of abuse never ever have a full airing in court. Would you dispute my assessment?
(edited for spelling and grammar)(jeepers creepers, I need to edit it for clarity too! SIGH)
Yes, TWI is incorporated in AZ. I outta know, I live there and a group of Twiggers meet down the street from my house. Anyone care to go to a fellowship meeting with me?? ;)
Just kidding, nobody shoot!
*Puts on tweety costume*
"Twig?? Oh doody doody.."
Actually, I think the corporation papers of da way list an Arizona address instead of an Ohio one. It's somewhere on GS.. can't find it at the time.
White Dove, our system is more than flawed. It is not what you might think it is--in fact, the way you speak of a day in court implies you don't know the depth of the problem. It is a boken clearinghouse that really does have very little to do with justice and less to do with gleaning the truth. I promise you this is the case. Talk to any public defender--if you can catch a moment when they are not over-worked-underpaid-and frustrated. Find out about the system.
I never said scrap the system. We need to reform it. Advocacy is the way to do this--there are groups out here who lobby for reform. We HAVE to overturn the laws in place that cause so much needless suffering. I am talking about laws that are actually unjust and used wrongly. There are people who make decisions on the lives of others based on politics and power. People are thrown away on another's ambition.
Please consider finding out about the minimum sentencing guidelines in your state---take the time to write a letter and sign an online petition. Federal guidelines have been reworked--and retroacitvely people have been released from prision. This is an important element.
If you have the death penalty in your state--find out about the system in those cases. You may be shocked as to who is executed--who is not.
I stand by my previous post you can call it any name you like as I said I am aware of the flaws I'll still support it as the best we have if it changes ,then it gets my support as the best we have still. By the way I added to the board of the dog park this year as our attorney/ adviser a former Public Defender both she and her husband have experience as such. They both are working private practices now but deal with the PD every day they of course can't talk specifics but I hear their frustrations every week with the system and cases.
As for TWI, Whitedove there is no day in court on this earth for VP. I know you feel strongly about this, but it is not to be. Even if it were, he had the money to purchase his justice, much like TWI did with Martindale. They settled. LCM never heard a verdict? It was enough--some kind of implied admission of guilt, but remember the court allows for this without holding his feet to the fire. Is that really justice--he walked away.
I understand it was best for those bringing suit--that is NOT my point--I stand firmly with the ones bringing suit and can't imagine the courage it took to do as they did. I am supportive of whatever was best for them and their families! . . . . . But TWI kinda bought their get out of jail free card with a settlement. The ugly truth was never exposed in court.
We will disagree on this First there could have been a day in court for everyone, no one seemed interested enough when he was alive. Second I don't agree that it was best to settle ,it shows to me the motive...... money, we saw how fast Waydale closed when the cash came out. I think there is a greater motive justice, they could have not been able to buy any get out of jail fee card had they not settled. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do, and that is their deal their choice, so be it, but my opinion is that they did no one but themselves any favors by settling.
THANKYOU for your service to these women and their pets! Not a small thing, to have some comfort knowing your animals are cared for in the midst of such trials. I am glad to hear of this program, and more than a bit enlightened by your participation. God Bless you.
Thanks but my participation is minimal compared to others, but I am especially glad to see that they get to visit their pets. I believe that this is the only such program in the state. Now up by Oakspear where I adopted my dog from they have a program at the no kill shelter there at Hearts United for Animals.
By the way I know this off topic but all those who are buying Science Diet Food are helping to fund programs like these. Hill's Pet Foods is our corporate sponsor for the bark park and they also are a supporter of funding for this program as well as other community support. Last year alone Hill's donated 30 million dollars in food alone to shelters to feed cats and dogs until they are adopted. In addition to the millions they donate in cash and volunteer help. I recently met with them regarding a $10,000 donation they gave us for the dog park and we work along side of them at many events, they are a great company to work with they are always open to helping with animal care. It is a premium food and I know it is expensive for some, but I just wanted to let everyone know that the extra they may pay goes back to support animal causes all over the USA. At the corporate office here they have a group that works everyday on contributing to dog parks ,shelters, programs ,zoo's and animal causes and community support. what a great job.... Each of you make it possible to help these and other animals to have a better life with your purchase.
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Ham
Maybe they did some research. I think Da way is incorporated in the state of Arizona.
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RainbowsGirl
Yeah Right blame it on the disease of "Way Brain"!!!
The cure for Way brain causing any molestation should be castration IMHO along with GODly justice!!!
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RainbowsGirl
I will never understand the mind or heart of a child or adult sexual molester. Yes, I know, even as I say this, that it is a cycle of a particular abuse system; but how can they look into the innocent screaming eyes of a precious child and damage them like that. knowing full well; that if it had been done to them, just what it did and STILL not stop themselves.?????
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Belle
I've been looking around, but can't find out for sure.
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excathedra
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Al...0/msg03283.html
was he stationed in tucson as a wow?
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Rocky
I'd say its almost certainly TWI. It's put the way it is in the article, likely, because the reporter isn't familiar with TWI.
I'm not so sure the connection with twi is meaningful from any sort of cause/effect relationship because there are (unfortunately) too many child molesters in plenty of places not associated with twi.
That said, the association in this article is still there and still looks bad from any angle.
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excathedra
certainly, from the "revelation" point of view lol
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WhiteDove
Perfect example of how the system works. Each person has the right to pursue their claim in a real court, not the internet version. They can submit testimony for examination ,they can enter evidence, present real facts as opposed to one sided opinions, and then a jury can render a verdict. At which time one can declare guilt or innocence according to the law. Wow what a novel idea........
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rascal
That is indeed what is wonderful about a court of LAW! What is equally terrific is having a forum available for DISCUSSION concerning our experiences and interactions with perpetrators of great evil and the subsequent impact upon our lives.
What a concept :)
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geisha779
OH REALLY?? You think the legal system is this country has ANYTHING to do with real justice? Yeah right.
The rich buy their justice and the poor go to jail. Even if you can manage an attorney--the DA can raise such a stink--you can't use the counsel you want.
If you HONESTLY think there is such a thing as justice in our system--you just might be deluded. It is hit or miss-just like this guy got his justice 50 perverts will get off.
I am so tired of hearing about a day in court--you know what a day in court means? All depends on who you are and what the system feels needs to be highlighted. It means NOTHING.
You want to do something good with your time. Find out about Minimum sentencing guidelines and lobby AGAINST THEM.
A day in court in this country has nothing to do with justice--you are better off on the internet--more truth is gleaned there--trust me our legal system BITES!
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rascal
I have actually seen that as well Geisha. The attorney for the other side was allowed to make absurd accusations towards my friends accuse them of all kinds of things, told lies about the condition of the ware house, etc.
My friends had spent everything that they had to try to clear their name. They would have had to sell their house and business to pay legal fees. Their attorney told them that they would win, that the paper work backed them up entirely, but that in winning the court case, they would lose everything.
The people who had the most money to keep paying their attorney to keep stalling until my friends ran out of money won, and then...go figure the attorney magically became the president of the new board, the accuser vp, her friends all voted off the remaining members and seized the charity that my friends had started from a garage and managed to raise 100s of thousands of dollars to help battered women and children was taken from them their reputations destroyed.
The accusers never had to answere for the slander. Of course being a small town, it`s all who you know, and the newspaper only reported it from the accusers perspective. All very sensational that way, and they never printed a retraction.
You have a very valid point Geisha.
I am truly thankful to Pawtucket for this site so that we can tell people what twi`s millions in attornies, and hush money have been able to keep secret from the public for so many many years.
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geisha779
I too am thankful Rascal--and things like that which happened to your friends-happens every single day in this
country. It is a very sick system. It truly is how much money you have and who you are. There are women in
my state in jail for a 15 year minimum sentences. They are first time offenders--kids scattered to the wind--
and the jerks who use them with intimidation and fear are out running free. Judges hands are TIED by
legislators who listen to deluded people who think the system works. They pass these idiotic laws that require a
minimum sentence. The prosecutors can't bring to trial the real criminals--so they get the poor idiots who made
a mistake.
Happens all the time. Our prisons are over-crowded with non-violent offenders because of these laws.
The world of black and white wide-eyed idiots who spout words like "Justice" and "courts", push and push for
these laws. Makes me crazy.
We live in a gray world where things have to be looked at and assessed--Our system rarely allows for this.
Judges literally pass sentences they feel are wrong. They have to--it is the law. I have seen it happen.
People worth saving are thrown away--15 years in a hard prison or 3 years-- No time off--how do we think that
helps?
Not every crime has a jury trial either. DA's say many things that are not true. So does the defense. It has little
to do with truth.
I really believe you are likely to get more "truth" here.
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WhiteDove
I agree as long as it is discussion and people presenting their opinion, when it croses the line to statements of confirmed guilt without the above then it ceases to be discussion.
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WhiteDove
No one has disagreed that our system has it's flaws and your points are well taken I don't disagree. But it is our law ,the best we have, maybe it will improve ,maybe not. I would strongly disagree that people making random accusations undocumented on the internet has any better outcome. Without due process of law nothing gets done other than people with various opinions pointing fingers.
Any system or program is bound to have it's flaws, the best we can hope for is to minimize those. There are people who have bad experiences at battered women shelters as well. Do we ignore the good done there because they are not perfect? I recently joined forces with a program here with the dog park to house battered women's and homeless peoples pets until they get relocated. they will be fed, housed and receive veterinary care while their owners are housed at the shelter at no cost to them. I'm sure some people will eventually have a problem with the program, I hope not, but it is a reality that might happen. But to scrap the system because it has flaws, would be a loss to me anyway. Our justice system is far from perfect but I feel the same about it.
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WordWolf
That's what happens when people discuss, at some point you're going to
discuss an opinion or a stance
Unless anyone here has announced they are a judge presiding over a twi case,
nobody's given a legal opinion or one with binding force one way or the other.
Even if they did, that would still be up for discussion,
judges dissent all the time. The Supreme Court has minority opinions all the time-
other judges are no different, and verdicts can be reversed or overturned.
That having been said, many people have been confirmed guilty to my satisfaction.
In that dimension, I'm not that easy to satisfy. (Although someone who disagrees with
me is free to pretend otherwise, especially if it's their opinion.
=========
In other news,
I'm glad another of twi's felons has been caught by the long arm of the law.
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WhiteDove
Yep I agree, one can pretend anything they want , it does not make it true,or false, and as long as they are not declaring guilt or innocence as if it is a established fact , implying that there has benn some sort of conviction, certainly have a right to express their opinion. Like wise others may point out there has been no such legal verdict, and as such it is only an opinion not established fact.
Me too however I don't think it has beeen established that they were a TWI felon.
then again it may have been confirmed guilty to your satisfaction.
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cheranne
sex offenders make me sick,they should get there thing cut off!
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geisha779
White Dove,
THANKYOU for your service to these women and their pets! Not a small thing, to have some comfort knowing your animals are cared for in the midst of such trials. I am glad to hear of this program, and more than a bit enlightened by your participation. God Bless you.
White Dove, our system is more than flawed. It is not what you might think it is--in fact, the way you speak of a day in court implies you don't know the depth of the problem. It is a boken clearinghouse that really does have very little to do with justice and less to do with gleaning the truth. I promise you this is the case. Talk to any public defender--if you can catch a moment when they are not over-worked-underpaid-and frustrated. Find out about the system.
I never said scrap the system. We need to reform it. Advocacy is the way to do this--there are groups out here who lobby for reform. We HAVE to overturn the laws in place that cause so much needless suffering. I am talking about laws that are actually unjust and used wrongly. There are people who make decisions on the lives of others based on politics and power. People are thrown away on another's ambition.
Please consider finding out about the minimum sentencing guidelines in your state---take the time to write a letter and sign an online petition. Federal guidelines have been reworked--and retroacitvely people have been released from prision. This is an important element.
If you have the death penalty in your state--find out about the system in those cases. You may be shocked as to who is executed--who is not.
As for TWI, Whitedove there is no day in court on this earth for VP. I know you feel strongly about this, but it is not to be. Even if it were, he had the money to purchase his justice, much like TWI did with Martindale. They settled. LCM never heard a verdict? It was enough--some kind of implied admission of guilt, but remember the court allows for this without holding his feet to the fire. Is that really justice--he walked away.
I understand it was best for those bringing suit--that is NOT my point--I stand firmly with the ones bringing suit and can't imagine the courage it took to do as they did. I am supportive of whatever was best for them and their families! . . . . . But TWI kinda bought their get out of jail free card with a settlement. The ugly truth was never exposed in court.
People need to be heard WD--walking wounded whose lives have been damaged. They need a voice--it lends itself to healing. A court is not the only place to be heard. A group of survivors can be a great place to vent. What is so great is that there ARE built in stop-gaps. Voices like yours who dissent with the majority.
Dissent away--according to the rules. Advocating an impossible scenario where a fictious "justice" will take place and "truth" will be told--is not dissent. It isn't. Tell us what was so good about TWI--I will listen to your voice . Calling things "unjust" and "illegal" when they clearly are not just makes me roll my eyes and sigh. You are ineffectual when you do this, and if you have a point about the goodness in TWI it is not being heard.
Have a conversation White Dove. We all are aware of your concern with justice. I don't think it has moved many of us. . . . it has not yet silenced us--nor will it. If you want to make us think--use your wit and participate--tell us of your good memories. We all have some of TWI--even me.
Oh and verdicts are RARELY overturned--or reversed--verdicts that are given in a plea agreement--which are MOST--will NOT be reversed or overturned--there is an admission of guilt--whether real or just is up for serious debate. All depends on who you are and how much money you have. A public defender rarely wins--that is why the poor plead out. It is a broken system--which is why our prisons are over-crowded with NON VIOLENT offenders.
Take care,
Geisha
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rascal
I guess that sounds pretty rediculous to me. We discuss what happened and then we form our own opinions as to why.
So folks get outraged as to what these pervs did in God`s name, and express that opinion...shrug I don`t understand trying to hide the evil perpetrated or not examining the ominous implications of men and women whom could behave in such a way.
That is what Greasespot is here for, to tell the OTHER side of the story...OURS! The story that twi managed to keep silent through intimidation, manipulation, excomunication, lies, slandered reputations, and millions in legal fees.
Darned RIGHT many of us have an opinion on that, and gosh darn it, are free to express it, as distasteful as some may find it, as doggedly as a few have tried to once again silence the voices of those mistreated and abused.
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ihrleben
NO WAY!!!! YOU ARE KIDDING ME!!!!!
Oh that's disgusting! This happened in Arizona?
Well, isn't that just WIZARD!
________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, TWI is incorporated in AZ. I outta know, I live there and a group of Twiggers meet down the street from my house. Anyone care to go to a fellowship meeting with me?? ;)
Just kidding, nobody shoot!
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WhiteDove
Straw man argument....... I see no evidence of anyone silencing any voice, nor anyone declaring that they want to ,or even would like such a thing to happen , this is your invention purely. In fact time and again I have seen people go out of their way to post over and over that certainly opinions are welcome, that is the purpose of a discussion fourm.
But opinions are just that ,they are not necessarily fact, or factual, when they are assumed to be so , due to likeability of the speaker, agreement with the mission, or agenda at hand and other reasons rather than the generally accepted methods we have in place for determining what is and what is not factual then I see some having a problem with declaration of truth without the supporting evidence of such.
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JeffSjo
White Dove,
How many of these abused women that you see never see any kind of real justice from the legal system in the United States?
How many are too intimidated or too forgiving to go after the abuser?
How many have tried, only to be out spent and out litigated by the abusers high priced lawyers?
Personally, I'm glad to see this one abuser appear to have the long arm of the law catch up to him, but since you seem to be in a position to have some exposure to abused people, I'm wondering if you would be willing to share your experiential knowledge of your estimate of the percentage of incidents of abuse that see adequate reckoning in the courts.
My slightly less informed opinion is that the percentage is very low, that is that many incidents of abuse never ever have a full airing in court. Would you dispute my assessment?
(edited for spelling and grammar)(jeepers creepers, I need to edit it for clarity too! SIGH)
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Ham
*Puts on tweety costume*
"Twig?? Oh doody doody.."
Actually, I think the corporation papers of da way list an Arizona address instead of an Ohio one. It's somewhere on GS.. can't find it at the time.
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WhiteDove
White Dove, our system is more than flawed. It is not what you might think it is--in fact, the way you speak of a day in court implies you don't know the depth of the problem. It is a boken clearinghouse that really does have very little to do with justice and less to do with gleaning the truth. I promise you this is the case. Talk to any public defender--if you can catch a moment when they are not over-worked-underpaid-and frustrated. Find out about the system.
I never said scrap the system. We need to reform it. Advocacy is the way to do this--there are groups out here who lobby for reform. We HAVE to overturn the laws in place that cause so much needless suffering. I am talking about laws that are actually unjust and used wrongly. There are people who make decisions on the lives of others based on politics and power. People are thrown away on another's ambition.
Please consider finding out about the minimum sentencing guidelines in your state---take the time to write a letter and sign an online petition. Federal guidelines have been reworked--and retroacitvely people have been released from prision. This is an important element.
If you have the death penalty in your state--find out about the system in those cases. You may be shocked as to who is executed--who is not.
I stand by my previous post you can call it any name you like as I said I am aware of the flaws I'll still support it as the best we have if it changes ,then it gets my support as the best we have still. By the way I added to the board of the dog park this year as our attorney/ adviser a former Public Defender both she and her husband have experience as such. They both are working private practices now but deal with the PD every day they of course can't talk specifics but I hear their frustrations every week with the system and cases.
As for TWI, Whitedove there is no day in court on this earth for VP. I know you feel strongly about this, but it is not to be. Even if it were, he had the money to purchase his justice, much like TWI did with Martindale. They settled. LCM never heard a verdict? It was enough--some kind of implied admission of guilt, but remember the court allows for this without holding his feet to the fire. Is that really justice--he walked away.
I understand it was best for those bringing suit--that is NOT my point--I stand firmly with the ones bringing suit and can't imagine the courage it took to do as they did. I am supportive of whatever was best for them and their families! . . . . . But TWI kinda bought their get out of jail free card with a settlement. The ugly truth was never exposed in court.
We will disagree on this First there could have been a day in court for everyone, no one seemed interested enough when he was alive. Second I don't agree that it was best to settle ,it shows to me the motive...... money, we saw how fast Waydale closed when the cash came out. I think there is a greater motive justice, they could have not been able to buy any get out of jail fee card had they not settled. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do, and that is their deal their choice, so be it, but my opinion is that they did no one but themselves any favors by settling.
Thanks but my participation is minimal compared to others, but I am especially glad to see that they get to visit their pets. I believe that this is the only such program in the state. Now up by Oakspear where I adopted my dog from they have a program at the no kill shelter there at Hearts United for Animals.
By the way I know this off topic but all those who are buying Science Diet Food are helping to fund programs like these. Hill's Pet Foods is our corporate sponsor for the bark park and they also are a supporter of funding for this program as well as other community support. Last year alone Hill's donated 30 million dollars in food alone to shelters to feed cats and dogs until they are adopted. In addition to the millions they donate in cash and volunteer help. I recently met with them regarding a $10,000 donation they gave us for the dog park and we work along side of them at many events, they are a great company to work with they are always open to helping with animal care. It is a premium food and I know it is expensive for some, but I just wanted to let everyone know that the extra they may pay goes back to support animal causes all over the USA. At the corporate office here they have a group that works everyday on contributing to dog parks ,shelters, programs ,zoo's and animal causes and community support. what a great job.... Each of you make it possible to help these and other animals to have a better life with your purchase.
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