And here I am still posting...... and being civil Sorry Doogable it is no longer worth the effort It's only a matter of time when the conversation will stray down the line I've been through it already these past days with some Mods. The mission will be protected....... The true household of the cafe will be safe once again. I'll just walk away YOU WIN........ Like Dylan said You can't win with a loosing hand.......
P.S. Way brain - controling speech through intimidation, now that's Way brained........
I think that belief that there is one "TRUTH" is a feature of so many religious and other belief systems, many uncultlike IMHO, that it doesn't really define waybrain.
CULT - Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members. This definition covers cults within all majopr world religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS religious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults. Others may define these a little differently, but this is the simplest to work from. THE 'ORTHODOX BIBLE-BASED CULT'
A group is called a cult because of their behaviour - not their doctrines. Doctrine is an issue in the area of Apologetics and Heresy. Most religious cults do teach what the Christian church would declare to be heresy but some do not. Some cults teach the basics of the Christian faith but have behavioural patterns that are abusive, controlling and cultic.
is where I got my basic premise about "Truth."
BUT - I failed to address the behavior and not only the belief that they hold all the truth. The control over twi followers is really what should be addressed in the definition of Waybrain.
BUT - I failed to address the behavior and not only the belief that they hold all the truth. The control over twi followers is really what should be addressed in the definition of Waybrain.
Ironically for a group claiming Christianity, the Way missed the boat on how the church often defines truth. Truth is not a "what" but a "who" in many or most Christian circles.
The Way's focus was on "The Word" and not Jesus Christ as truth. We were able to define truth anyway we wanted.
It is really helpful when he "who" is truth is absent, and we take his place.
I think that is how we developed "Way Brain". Instead of worshiping a "Who" we worshiped a "What". Good old fashioned idolatry I guess. A worship of our own crazy theology.
With that thought pattern firmly in place we were open to all kind of control and abuses. I think it just depended how warped you were to begin with and how high up the tree you fell as to how you twisted and used it.
We had our own verbiage to go with our "Way Brain". Our language refected our conditioned thought process.
I still avoid certain sentences. I never ask "What's available?"
Understanding truth as a "who" and the "what" as a means to know the "who" helped me. I didn't have to keep up with the latest "present" convenient insight. Truth remains constant when it is objective. As long as the object is a who.
In my humble opinion, the thing people preach the loudest and longest about they are the most guilty of in their own life. That seems to be what we did with the "Word" the "Word" and nothing but the "Word".
Lockbox, present truth, every third person "possessed" needs&wants, Bless Patrol, advances instead of retreats, no wishing "Luck", "Believing images of Victory", "Absent Christ" Homo purge etc all seem to be uniquely "Way brain" IMHO
Can you imagine an everyday Christian at a ROA without an interpreter?
I'm going to take a stab at this from some of my observations.
Waybrain is defined by reflexive thoughts and responses to situations based on certain dogmas taught in TWI. What defines them as Waybrain are the catch phrases unique to TWI that are immediately recognized within associates or former associates of TWI as common usage among the associates.
There are many common methods of mind control and signs of group-think that are present among any organization. Usually you see signs when certain phrases are used.
Hi Doojbale! I don't post here much anymore, but I'm going to stick my neck out and give my opinion.
I don't really like the term "waybrain" It's used too often on the forums as a club to beat someone over the head when they don't agree with the "popular" opinion. That is not an accusation toward you for bringing the topic up by the way, so please don't think that is what I mean.
There tends to be a mob mentality here at times. When a discussion is going on, and someone has a differing opinion from the "group", they are accused of being "waybrained" and that's pretty much the end of the discussion, that's when mob rule seems to come into play.
But I don't like labels. And that term is used to often to just shut people up if they think differently.
Just my 2 cents, YMMV, and all the other standard disclaimers. :)
That's a fair assessment Bluze. I guess in some ways the term is another form of jargon.
I take no offense at your post. As I said, I was reading another thread and the term got bantered about. It occurred to me that perhaps there wasn't a real meaning to that word - just a vague general sense that it wasn't good. If you notice, my first post wasn't all that poignant.
This thread has served to help me define what I mean when I use the term and to understand what others think.
I don't think it's always malicious. Peole tend to be analytical.. myself, I try to figure out what
makes some people tick..
example.
Take a plagiarizing, thieving, abusive, con artist over a little known odd religious organization who also is an alcoholic sex fiend, who is smart enough to surround himself with enough hardened yes men to cover his tracks..
oh, most of this applies to a wider circle than twi. Look at l ron hubbard.. Crowley, and quite a few others.
and a doctrine he promotes for the most part, that DOES NOT WORK. It's a "feel good", mog-serving doctrine, and gives one the sense of "superiority".
the "dead bodies" of the victims slowly are unearthed.. the plagiarism and theft is DOCUMENTED.. and in the face of evidence and eyewitness testimony, some just don't (or can't) get it. They would argue incessantly about the merits of the "new birth", and how the lowlife scumbag was somehow "graced" with the lord's presence..
comparisons are brought forward, to David, to Solomon, to Paul.. that somehow, his existence was justified because of da mighty word o da lord he researched (stole)..
some would ascribe to him the wisdom of Solomon.. the love of David, the spiritual understanding of Paul..
I kind of see the need for some people to generate a label to put on this..
I think "waybrain" is the same thing that inflicts the zealots who follow hubbard, crowley, armstrong, TM, Jim Jones, koresh, Simon the Sorcerer, the deluded people who followed the egyptian(?) prophet, referenced in the book of acts, to their destruction.. the followers of Hitler, etc., etc..
I think vic just happened to be another small footnote in this hall of shame..
The same "brain" even infiltrates a hobby as beneign as amateur radio.
There's one group under a now well aging "charismatic" leader.. it seems to be in decline..
he named his organization, to very closely match the name of the big radio association in america..
many members in his organization think he's some kind of "savior" of radio.. gonna "pull the hobby out of the fire" so to speak..
his adherants would "witness" to other hams at different conventions..
the guy flouts fcc rules and regulations.. and he gets "slapped". Of course, his followers think he's just getting persecuted.. arbitrarily picked on..
when in reality, one has to be REALLY REALLY bad to get that kind of attention from the fcc..
seeing this "brain" in a different context is probably one of the things that helped me relax the mind-numbing grip of twi from my own self..
The "Waybrain" label is generally applied to certain attitudes of Way and former way followers. In certain situations, the responses of someone sufferring from "waybrain" can be predicted with fairly good accuracy.
However, "waybrain" (if we can actually define it) would also apply to folks never associated with TWI. You certainly see these behaviours and attitudes outside of TWI and those it influenced.
I like to think of "Waybrain" as a combination of antisocial and narcissistic disorders bought on by acceptance and adherence to a hard set of standards, many times believed to be "immutable truth". These standards or truths could be from religion, science, or elsewhere.
I would also agree that "WayBrain" is a derogatory term.
As is "Wayfer", "Wierwillite", "Moony", or "J-W".
The problem is, it's not the word itself that's so hurtful. It's the fact that it means you are (or were) a member of a REALLY stupid cult. And that's something the individual is just going to have to learn to deal with.
Like it or not, being overly credulous and malleable is NOT a point of pride. Sorry...
I don't really like the term "waybrain" It's used too often on the forums as a club to beat someone over the head when they don't agree with the "popular" opinion. That is not an accusation toward you for bringing the topic up by the way, so please don't think that is what I mean.
There tends to be a mob mentality here at times. When a discussion is going on, and someone has a differing opinion from the "group", they are accused of being "waybrained" and that's pretty much the end of the discussion, that's when mob rule seems to come into play.
I suppose that this could be called "SpotBrain." ("GreaseBrain" sounds really weird.)
What I've come to realize it the amount of personal dishonesty that I harbored (and I'm still shedding) during my years in twi.
I noticed it back towards the end of my cult tenure. We knew that if you had a problem with someone you should talk to that person. We knew that gossip was wrong. BUT - it could all be made "all right" if you were trying to get someone to pray for an individual, or if you wanted to "help the person."
Waybrain? Maybe. It was definitely a common occurrence. Maybe it was just sanctioned because it was so easy.
What is it that I've read around here...?
Oh yea...
The lessons we teach are the things we allow.
and...
The lessons repeat until they are learned.
So if for nothing else, I value this discussion and this site. Sometimes it's hard to see what lessons you are teaching and repeating until they are staring you in the face - glaring like brights on a semi.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
5
11
5
21
Popular Days
Sep 24
37
Sep 23
30
Sep 22
18
Sep 25
14
Top Posters In This Topic
Oakspear 5 posts
WhiteDove 11 posts
Ham 5 posts
doojable 21 posts
Popular Days
Sep 24 2008
37 posts
Sep 23 2008
30 posts
Sep 22 2008
18 posts
Sep 25 2008
14 posts
Posted Images
Oakspear
Looks on topic to me, dooj, you were discussing the reason why you believed that certain attitudes defined waybrain, WhiteDove was disagreeing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Defining WayBrain is the topic ,not truth, or belief systems ect.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
And we were even being civil... :)
Yes - but the point was made that WayBrain had the element of arrogance that not only could Truth be known, but that only the twi held the Truth.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
And here I am still posting...... and being civil
Sorry Doogable it is no longer worth the effort It's only a matter of time when the conversation will stray down the line I've been through it already these past days with some Mods. The mission will be protected....... The true household of the cafe will be safe once again. I'll just walk away YOU WIN........ Like Dylan said You can't win with a loosing hand.......
P.S. Way brain - controling speech through intimidation, now that's Way brained........
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
WD - a civil discussion is refreshing. I don't agree with you, but civil debate invites independent thought.
THAT is not Waybrained.
Of course, the discussion could stand to move on to other elements of the definition...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Well doojable, I'll discuss "truth" with you.
I think that belief that there is one "TRUTH" is a feature of so many religious and other belief systems, many uncultlike IMHO, that it doesn't really define waybrain.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Point taken Oakspear.
This:
is where I got my basic premise about "Truth."
BUT - I failed to address the behavior and not only the belief that they hold all the truth. The control over twi followers is really what should be addressed in the definition of Waybrain.
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
And you were so civil in steering the thread back on track...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spoudazo
Ironically for a group claiming Christianity, the Way missed the boat on how the church often defines truth. Truth is not a "what" but a "who" in many or most Christian circles.
The Way's focus was on "The Word" and not Jesus Christ as truth. We were able to define truth anyway we wanted.
It is really helpful when he "who" is truth is absent, and we take his place.
I think that is how we developed "Way Brain". Instead of worshiping a "Who" we worshiped a "What". Good old fashioned idolatry I guess. A worship of our own crazy theology.
With that thought pattern firmly in place we were open to all kind of control and abuses. I think it just depended how warped you were to begin with and how high up the tree you fell as to how you twisted and used it.
We had our own verbiage to go with our "Way Brain". Our language refected our conditioned thought process.
I still avoid certain sentences. I never ask "What's available?"
Understanding truth as a "who" and the "what" as a means to know the "who" helped me. I didn't have to keep up with the latest "present" convenient insight. Truth remains constant when it is objective. As long as the object is a who.
In my humble opinion, the thing people preach the loudest and longest about they are the most guilty of in their own life. That seems to be what we did with the "Word" the "Word" and nothing but the "Word".
Lockbox, present truth, every third person "possessed" needs&wants, Bless Patrol, advances instead of retreats, no wishing "Luck", "Believing images of Victory", "Absent Christ" Homo purge etc all seem to be uniquely "Way brain" IMHO
Can you imagine an everyday Christian at a ROA without an interpreter?
Edited by SpoudazoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
I'm going to take a stab at this from some of my observations.
Waybrain is defined by reflexive thoughts and responses to situations based on certain dogmas taught in TWI. What defines them as Waybrain are the catch phrases unique to TWI that are immediately recognized within associates or former associates of TWI as common usage among the associates.
There are many common methods of mind control and signs of group-think that are present among any organization. Usually you see signs when certain phrases are used.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bluzeman
Hi Doojbale! I don't post here much anymore, but I'm going to stick my neck out and give my opinion.
I don't really like the term "waybrain" It's used too often on the forums as a club to beat someone over the head when they don't agree with the "popular" opinion. That is not an accusation toward you for bringing the topic up by the way, so please don't think that is what I mean.
There tends to be a mob mentality here at times. When a discussion is going on, and someone has a differing opinion from the "group", they are accused of being "waybrained" and that's pretty much the end of the discussion, that's when mob rule seems to come into play.
But I don't like labels. And that term is used to often to just shut people up if they think differently.
Just my 2 cents, YMMV, and all the other standard disclaimers. :)
Rick
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
That's a fair assessment Bluze. I guess in some ways the term is another form of jargon.
I take no offense at your post. As I said, I was reading another thread and the term got bantered about. It occurred to me that perhaps there wasn't a real meaning to that word - just a vague general sense that it wasn't good. If you notice, my first post wasn't all that poignant.
This thread has served to help me define what I mean when I use the term and to understand what others think.
Play on Bluzeman!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I don't think it's always malicious. Peole tend to be analytical.. myself, I try to figure out what
makes some people tick..
example.
Take a plagiarizing, thieving, abusive, con artist over a little known odd religious organization who also is an alcoholic sex fiend, who is smart enough to surround himself with enough hardened yes men to cover his tracks..
oh, most of this applies to a wider circle than twi. Look at l ron hubbard.. Crowley, and quite a few others.
and a doctrine he promotes for the most part, that DOES NOT WORK. It's a "feel good", mog-serving doctrine, and gives one the sense of "superiority".
the "dead bodies" of the victims slowly are unearthed.. the plagiarism and theft is DOCUMENTED.. and in the face of evidence and eyewitness testimony, some just don't (or can't) get it. They would argue incessantly about the merits of the "new birth", and how the lowlife scumbag was somehow "graced" with the lord's presence..
comparisons are brought forward, to David, to Solomon, to Paul.. that somehow, his existence was justified because of da mighty word o da lord he researched (stole)..
some would ascribe to him the wisdom of Solomon.. the love of David, the spiritual understanding of Paul..
I kind of see the need for some people to generate a label to put on this..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I think "waybrain" is the same thing that inflicts the zealots who follow hubbard, crowley, armstrong, TM, Jim Jones, koresh, Simon the Sorcerer, the deluded people who followed the egyptian(?) prophet, referenced in the book of acts, to their destruction.. the followers of Hitler, etc., etc..
I think vic just happened to be another small footnote in this hall of shame..
it's obvioulsy not about any specific belief.
Edited by HamLink to comment
Share on other sites
cman
is more of a personal attack then way brain
it implies that people are just going with the majority rather then thinking for themselves and agreeing together
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
The same "brain" even infiltrates a hobby as beneign as amateur radio.
There's one group under a now well aging "charismatic" leader.. it seems to be in decline..
he named his organization, to very closely match the name of the big radio association in america..
many members in his organization think he's some kind of "savior" of radio.. gonna "pull the hobby out of the fire" so to speak..
his adherants would "witness" to other hams at different conventions..
the guy flouts fcc rules and regulations.. and he gets "slapped". Of course, his followers think he's just getting persecuted.. arbitrarily picked on..
when in reality, one has to be REALLY REALLY bad to get that kind of attention from the fcc..
seeing this "brain" in a different context is probably one of the things that helped me relax the mind-numbing grip of twi from my own self..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
The "Waybrain" label is generally applied to certain attitudes of Way and former way followers. In certain situations, the responses of someone sufferring from "waybrain" can be predicted with fairly good accuracy.
However, "waybrain" (if we can actually define it) would also apply to folks never associated with TWI. You certainly see these behaviours and attitudes outside of TWI and those it influenced.
I like to think of "Waybrain" as a combination of antisocial and narcissistic disorders bought on by acceptance and adherence to a hard set of standards, many times believed to be "immutable truth". These standards or truths could be from religion, science, or elsewhere.
A look at the definitions of sociopath and of narcissitic disorder may help shed some light.
I think "waybrain" is missapplied here some. Yet, I think I know several folks here that probably suffer from it in varying degrees.
Edited by GoeyLink to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
I would also agree that "WayBrain" is a derogatory term.
As is "Wayfer", "Wierwillite", "Moony", or "J-W".
The problem is, it's not the word itself that's so hurtful. It's the fact that it means you are (or were) a member of a REALLY stupid cult. And that's something the individual is just going to have to learn to deal with.
Like it or not, being overly credulous and malleable is NOT a point of pride. Sorry...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
I suppose that this could be called "SpotBrain." ("GreaseBrain" sounds really weird.)
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
What I've come to realize it the amount of personal dishonesty that I harbored (and I'm still shedding) during my years in twi.
I noticed it back towards the end of my cult tenure. We knew that if you had a problem with someone you should talk to that person. We knew that gossip was wrong. BUT - it could all be made "all right" if you were trying to get someone to pray for an individual, or if you wanted to "help the person."
Waybrain? Maybe. It was definitely a common occurrence. Maybe it was just sanctioned because it was so easy.
What is it that I've read around here...?
Oh yea...
The lessons we teach are the things we allow.
and...
The lessons repeat until they are learned.
So if for nothing else, I value this discussion and this site. Sometimes it's hard to see what lessons you are teaching and repeating until they are staring you in the face - glaring like brights on a semi.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
Sociopaths aren't called that anymore. Antisocial is the preferred term.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Preferred by whom? But hey, let's not quibble over terms that mean the same thing.
Actually I used sociopath instead of psycopath to be nice. Same thing though.
VPW amd LCM could be the posterboys for this malady.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
...and isn't that the reason why so many people post here?...
Waybrain is the operative word that is used to describe people who think the way that twi taught them to think...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
<<< -------Checks personal history and past actions, and has to agree.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.