This thread is not a discussion of the rules. The topic is "Defining Waybrain" please keep the discussion on that topic,
Thank You Mod --Id be for adding "staying on topic" into the new rules
(of course this post is offtopic from the thread )
----
t's a description of a set of habits or actions that are commonly familar to those having been in twi.
I agree with that statement, WayBrain is what it is, People were involved in the way and developed mental habit patterns based on their association. Its not a derogatory term so much an authenticate and analyzable state of mind. It could easily be applied to 'CatholicBrain" EpiscopalianBrain", EngineerBrain, "ComputerGeekBrain" or MomBrain.
Since we were all involved its worth thinking about. If WD wants to add his two cents of what it WAS/IS in his opinion then thats on topic .
Frankly, there could be some positive aspects of "WayBrain," which WD and Oldies seem to have forgotten.
In my experience, the vast majority of TWI followers had an earnest desire to serve God and help people. This may not have been the mindset of some leaders, but I think it also qualifies as "WayBrain."
"Someone gave me a jack, I think you need one, and I want to help you with it."
Greasespot cafe tells the other side of the story. I am not going to change that White Dove because you feel slighted. You know what the mission of this site is, telling the other side of the story. You wouldn't go to McCain's web site and demand pro-Obama talk, so don't expect that here.
So we are just supposed to turn the other way while you ridicule our beliefs? Will you do the same and what is the point of rules?
By the way derogatory term is what it is. That's english for what you are doing.
Derogatory
tending to lessen the merit or reputation of a person or thing; disparaging; depreciatory: a derogatory remark.
So your defence is because someone else did something wrong it's ok for me to do so as well? Hardly a standard I would embrace.
I wouldn't go on the "Doctrine" forum and complain about non-trinity believers being labeled as "infidels" - what good would it do? I avoid it - there's no point to arguing what people believe. So what? If being called an "infidel" is derogatory then it's not the worst thing I've been called.
TWI and the believers are no a "race" of people. They are sect of people with specific beliefs. How can something be "derogatory" (TWI) when that something and the effect it had on our thinking was bad to begin with?
The word "TWI" is being used to describe the word "brain"... how is that derogatory? You can't possibly place that on the same level as a religious belief or a race of people with any real logic - there's no parallel to be drawn there. By applying your logic to the rest of life, my being called a "Soccer Mom" would be considered derogatory and my referring to my kids as "Rug Rats" is derogatory.
Way Brain wasn't coined as a derogatory term at all.
Honest question: Did you post on Waydale? Like back in 2000?
It came up then.
There were people leaving at a pretty good clip back then, like myself.
We thought we'd be dead by midnight because we were outside of the confines of the Household. We thought we'd loose eternal life if we had any debt or if we didn't use the wooden spoon on our kids. It's that stuff that's "Way Brain" - it's that mentality of what you had to do to stay in - what you had to do to survive while in TWI - that is the real definition of Way Brain. It's putting the collective above yourself no matter what!
And it's more of a TWI2 thing (LCM's administration, post Fog years, if you will).
I get what you're saying - but I don't think you get what we're saying.
I don't see anyone calling anyone names or pointing fingers in the posts on this thread. Why do you have a problem with this? You seem to be internalizing this as an attack - it's NOT!
I think a big part of Waybrain is the internal conflict loop way people can experience.
"I have the greatest truth in the world today, I have the answers...i ABS/Believe /obey etc...my life is not abundant, health is not wonderful, I have a big need...I'm not perfect enough...condemnation is wrong...i have the greatest truth in the world today, I have the answers..."
People renew their minds into denial, because they don't want to examine things too deeply, they pretend in front of the believers that they have it all together, needs all met...a dishonest lonely life.
I find myself thinking things or reacting to situations that are knee jerk or "automatically" what I would have done while involved in TWI, yet utterly illogical for/to someone who was never involved with TWI or an organization like them. I consider that "way brain".
It is a way of thinking or behavior that is a parrot of what we were told should be the response so many times that it happens without my realizing it. Or something irritates the he11 out of me and I realize it's because of some lingering TWI doctrine that I want to, but haven't completely eradicated from my life.
I consider "way brain" any undesirable behavior, thoughts, fears or personality traits I have that were acquired during my TWI years. YMMV
Again, the topic of the thread is Defining WayBrain. Just as it was asked that it not be changed to a topic regarding rules (there is such a thread already in the Open Forum btw), I would ask that the topic not be changed to one discussing another poster.
Being able to recognize way brain in our selves and others helps us to move and get beyond it.
Cause if I see it in others, I must have seen it in myself as well. Which takes any kind of personal attack out of the thoughts and posts.
I have pointed it out in myself and others as well with no ill intent. But to spot it and see it is a great thing. To see the source of some of our thinking.
Whether it's waybrain or something else it's always an adventure for the courageous to explore.Taking it further into the source of that source even.
1. The ability to seriously consider that a plagiaristic, alcoholic, serial abuser and rapist could possibly conceive truth such that it hasn't been known since the first century, despite eyewitness testimony as to the abuses, and a side by side examination of the plagiarists and original authors works.
2. A driving passion to defend and exonerate a plagiaristic, alcoholic, serial abuser and rapist, for God only knows what reason, by drawing comparisons to David, Solomon, and Paul.
I don't think it's the whole brain.. it's like, something is missing.
I agree with WhiteDove that Waybrain is a deragatory term. It's a put down...like the word cult. Sort of like being intolerant of others' beliefs.
Although GS putdowns are allowed (as long as not directed at fellow posters) someone once said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ... I think that principle works well and is appreciated.
Oldies......gee, I wonder when the scriptures say "to be carnally-minded is death"...........is THAT a derogatory term / concept also?? Is God being "derogatory?"
To me, waybrain is a specific term noting one who was/is indoctrinated with way doctrine. According to twi indoctrination.........waybrain is the ULTIMATE in renewed mind consciousness. No, of course twi isn't going to call it "waybrain".........twi labels it "the renewed mind."
Another way of looking at waybrain.......our discussions here at GS are "separating truth from error"
................or, separating the things of God from the "traditions of man."
I don't believe that believing what TWI taught necessarily indicates Waybrain. After all, many people here, after thoughtful and/or prayerful consideration have come to similar conclusions on some issues as Wierwille did. Surely we don't believe that every non-Trinitarian Christian, or Christian who believes that the dead are not consciously alive is suffering from Waybrain, do we?
Sure Waybrain is a made-up word. All words are at one time or another. Think about all the technical terms, industry jargon, government-speak, etc that have been coined in the last 20-30 years.
Apparently we don't all agree with what Waybrain is.
My definition is the condition where one unthinkingly and reflexively thinks or says or thinks TWI dogma.
Sometimes Waybrain is obvious, more often it is not. If someone voulteers to string the chairs while setting up for a PTA meeting, did they think that through, deciding after careful consideration that it was the most efficient way to set up the room, or did it float up to the forebrain unbidden due to years of indoctrination setting up rooms? The situations in which it is easier to correctly identify Waybrain is when a doctrinal point is questioned and the response is a quote from PFAL or Wierwille that doesn't really answer the question.
Oldies......gee, I wonder when the scriptures say "to be carnally-minded is death"...........is THAT a derogatory term / concept also?? Is God being "derogatory?"
If someone wants to trash the carnal mind, then I think that would have been different. The carnal mind is trashed in scripture no matter who it is (saint and sinner alike) or where they might be or who they fellowship with. Contrast that with the term "Waybrain" ... appears to be trashing only Way participants irrespective of whether they have a carnal mind or not, whether they do God's will or not. I don't know all of these people but it seems to label all of them nuts because of the religious affiliation. Joe Smith wants to attend fellowships in twi therefore he is afflicted with "Waybrain". Seems like not a very nice thing to say about people who for all anyone knows wants to simply participate in a religion; personally I prefer to get to know people first before labelling in a negative way and even then would think twice because this is the U.S. of America with freedom of religion.
Someone can believe Way doctrinal points and not be waybrained, i think.
Waybrain comes in with the arrogance, the mistreatment of others, the viewing others as enemy, entitlement(leaders) commanding respect not earning it(leaders)...not being able to handle dissent or discussion, the overwhelming need for likemindedness, vilifying those different.
Greasespot cafe tells the other side of the story. I am not going to change that White Dove because you feel slighted. You know what the mission of this site is, telling the other side of the story. You wouldn't go to McCain's web site and demand pro-Obama talk, so don't expect that here.
It is not a question of feeling slighted ,nor did I ask for pro talk, I did ask that my religious beliefs were not disparaged I think that is in the rules. Those who worked hard on the new rules just settled the wierwille apologist question this is nothing more than another veiled attempt to label where that left off. . If you want to allow it it's your call. That's fine with me ,it works both ways.
You wouldn't go to McCain's web site and demand pro-Obama talk, so don't expect that here.
PS I would expect at each site for them to speak honestly and not disparage each other one can do that with out pro talk.
It is not a question of feeling slighted ,nor did I ask for pro talk, I did ask that my religious beliefs were not disparaged I think that is in the rules. Those who worked hard on the new rules just settled the wierwille apologist question this is nothing more than another veiled attempt to label where that left off. . If you want to allow it it's your call. That's fine with me ,it works both ways.
I object!
I had no such motive when I started this thread.
In fact, I was reading another thread and thought to myself that I wasn't sure that when we used the word "Waybrain" that we all meant the same thing.
If I say the word "bird" here in Texas, most people get a mind picture of a sparrow or a mockingbird. However if you say the same word in Australia, a different image might come to mind.
And just suppose the elements of Waybrainism are really just cultism?
I'm curious as to what elements of your religious beliefs have been disparaged on this thread?
..."truth with a capital 'T'?"
A while back I saw a show on Nova in which different theories were discussed. The theory of relativity was good until it no longer described a certain aspect of the universe, so along came quantum theory, which when found to be equally limiting led to string theory.
It seems that scientists are fine with more than one "truth" to define that which they are seeking answers to. Isn't that more honest than trying to fit God in one box of "truth?" I believe there is a "Truth" but I"m comfortable in saying that I won't know it all.
It seems that scientists are fine with more than one "truth" to define that which they are seeking answers to. Isn't that more honest than trying to fit God in one box of "truth?" I believe there is a "Truth" but I"m comfortable in saying that I won't know it all.
And that is your choice me I'm comfortable with what scripture says and it says I can, if you want to refer to what some scientists said as your truth tha' ts fine by me. I don't feel the need to call it mindless as some have refered t my choice. And that is the difference.
And that is your choice me I'm comfortable with what scripture says and it says I can, if you want to refer to what some scientists said as your truth tha' ts fine by me. I don't feel the need to call it mindless as some have refered t my choice. And that is the difference.
Okay... but which "truth"?
Catholic? Episcopalian? Seventh Day Adventist? Jewish? twi? ....keep adding the truth of your choice... ad infinitum.
Isn't it possible that they all have elements of truth? That not one of them contains all the truth?
Or are you suggesting that man has God figured out?
IMHO that is the arrogance that I learned in twi - that I could not only understand the Creator of the Universe, but "make" Him do as I demanded in the name of His son. Bind him to His word. Look like a lawyer for some loophole somewhere to get what you want.
And THAT arrogance, is a definite element of Waybrain.
(Edited to add that I think that it's ironic that twi has been labeled as another religion here on this thread.)
...I don't feel the need to call it mindless as some have refered t my choice. And that is the difference.
I just reviewed this thread and only found two posters who used the word "mindless", Groucho & myself. Actually I used the terms unthinkingly and reflexively, but "mindless" is not far off from what I meant.
However neither of us said that TWI doctrine or those who believed TWI doctrine were mindless, or mindlessly believed it, but that Waybrain described those who did mindlessly, unthinkingly, reflexively believe it.
Saying that TWI doctrines or beliefs were being called mindless is the logical fallacy of the strawman argument; i.e. arguing against a position that the other side is not actually taking.
Catholic? Episcopalian? Seventh Day Adventist? Jewish? twi? ....keep adding the truth of your choice... ad infinitum.
Isn't it possible that they all have elements of truth? That not one of them contains all the truth?
Or are you suggesting that man has God figured out?
IMHO that is the arrogance that I learned in twi - that I could not only understand the Creator of the Universe, but "make" Him do as I demanded in the name of His son. Bind him to His word. Look like a lawyer for some loophole somewhere to get what you want.
And THAT arrogance, is a definite element of Waybrain.
I don't believe that truth is determined by denominations. you may add any you like, having elements is not the same as having truth. It' is a part not a whole. The scripture is clear to me, you'll have to find your own way. And what you describe as arrogance, way brained I see as confidence in scripture.
My point is that no one belief system (religious theory - if you will) can possibly define the Truth.
And while you look to a certain set of scripture, there are others in the world that look to the Apocrypha along with the accepted Canon of scripture.
And what good is scripture if you don't understand it? The understanding is where any religious belief system derives it's power base. That is the theory.
You know I'd love to continue this discussion and answer all the above posts, but then in this level.... Cough Cough .......playing field it will be me who gets the repremand for answering your off topic posts. So I'll decline... I'm done ,thanks anyway.......
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
5
11
5
21
Popular Days
Sep 24
37
Sep 23
30
Sep 22
18
Sep 25
14
Top Posters In This Topic
Oakspear 5 posts
WhiteDove 11 posts
Ham 5 posts
doojable 21 posts
Popular Days
Sep 24 2008
37 posts
Sep 23 2008
30 posts
Sep 22 2008
18 posts
Sep 25 2008
14 posts
Posted Images
doojable
I've seen quite a few posters here refer to themselves as having "waybrain," or doing a "waybrain" thing.
It's a description of a set of habits or actions that are commonly familar to those having been in twi.
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Thank You Mod --Id be for adding "staying on topic" into the new rules
(of course this post is offtopic from the thread
)
----
I agree with that statement, WayBrain is what it is, People were involved in the way and developed mental habit patterns based on their association. Its not a derogatory term so much an authenticate and analyzable state of mind. It could easily be applied to 'CatholicBrain" EpiscopalianBrain", EngineerBrain, "ComputerGeekBrain" or MomBrain.
Since we were all involved its worth thinking about. If WD wants to add his two cents of what it WAS/IS in his opinion then thats on topic .
Edited by modbakerLink to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
Frankly, there could be some positive aspects of "WayBrain," which WD and Oldies seem to have forgotten.
In my experience, the vast majority of TWI followers had an earnest desire to serve God and help people. This may not have been the mindset of some leaders, but I think it also qualifies as "WayBrain."
"Someone gave me a jack, I think you need one, and I want to help you with it."
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pawtucket
Greasespot cafe tells the other side of the story. I am not going to change that White Dove because you feel slighted. You know what the mission of this site is, telling the other side of the story. You wouldn't go to McCain's web site and demand pro-Obama talk, so don't expect that here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
I wouldn't go on the "Doctrine" forum and complain about non-trinity believers being labeled as "infidels" - what good would it do? I avoid it - there's no point to arguing what people believe. So what? If being called an "infidel" is derogatory then it's not the worst thing I've been called.
TWI and the believers are no a "race" of people. They are sect of people with specific beliefs. How can something be "derogatory" (TWI) when that something and the effect it had on our thinking was bad to begin with?
The word "TWI" is being used to describe the word "brain"... how is that derogatory? You can't possibly place that on the same level as a religious belief or a race of people with any real logic - there's no parallel to be drawn there. By applying your logic to the rest of life, my being called a "Soccer Mom" would be considered derogatory and my referring to my kids as "Rug Rats" is derogatory.
Way Brain wasn't coined as a derogatory term at all.
Honest question: Did you post on Waydale? Like back in 2000?
It came up then.
There were people leaving at a pretty good clip back then, like myself.
We thought we'd be dead by midnight because we were outside of the confines of the Household. We thought we'd loose eternal life if we had any debt or if we didn't use the wooden spoon on our kids. It's that stuff that's "Way Brain" - it's that mentality of what you had to do to stay in - what you had to do to survive while in TWI - that is the real definition of Way Brain. It's putting the collective above yourself no matter what!
And it's more of a TWI2 thing (LCM's administration, post Fog years, if you will).
I get what you're saying - but I don't think you get what we're saying.
I don't see anyone calling anyone names or pointing fingers in the posts on this thread. Why do you have a problem with this? You seem to be internalizing this as an attack - it's NOT!
Edited by ChasUFarleyLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
I think a big part of Waybrain is the internal conflict loop way people can experience.
"I have the greatest truth in the world today, I have the answers...i ABS/Believe /obey etc...my life is not abundant, health is not wonderful, I have a big need...I'm not perfect enough...condemnation is wrong...i have the greatest truth in the world today, I have the answers..."
People renew their minds into denial, because they don't want to examine things too deeply, they pretend in front of the believers that they have it all together, needs all met...a dishonest lonely life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
I find myself thinking things or reacting to situations that are knee jerk or "automatically" what I would have done while involved in TWI, yet utterly illogical for/to someone who was never involved with TWI or an organization like them. I consider that "way brain".
It is a way of thinking or behavior that is a parrot of what we were told should be the response so many times that it happens without my realizing it. Or something irritates the he11 out of me and I realize it's because of some lingering TWI doctrine that I want to, but haven't completely eradicated from my life.
I consider "way brain" any undesirable behavior, thoughts, fears or personality traits I have that were acquired during my TWI years. YMMV
Edited by modbakerLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
Deleted - off topic
Edited by modbakerLink to comment
Share on other sites
modbaker
Again, the topic of the thread is Defining WayBrain. Just as it was asked that it not be changed to a topic regarding rules (there is such a thread already in the Open Forum btw), I would ask that the topic not be changed to one discussing another poster.
Thank you. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
Being able to recognize way brain in our selves and others helps us to move and get beyond it.
Cause if I see it in others, I must have seen it in myself as well. Which takes any kind of personal attack out of the thoughts and posts.
I have pointed it out in myself and others as well with no ill intent. But to spot it and see it is a great thing. To see the source of some of our thinking.
Whether it's waybrain or something else it's always an adventure for the courageous to explore.Taking it further into the source of that source even.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Way Brain-
1. The ability to seriously consider that a plagiaristic, alcoholic, serial abuser and rapist could possibly conceive truth such that it hasn't been known since the first century, despite eyewitness testimony as to the abuses, and a side by side examination of the plagiarists and original authors works.
2. A driving passion to defend and exonerate a plagiaristic, alcoholic, serial abuser and rapist, for God only knows what reason, by drawing comparisons to David, Solomon, and Paul.
I don't think it's the whole brain.. it's like, something is missing.
at least the dialog is predictable..
Edited by HamLink to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Oldies......gee, I wonder when the scriptures say "to be carnally-minded is death"...........is THAT a derogatory term / concept also?? Is God being "derogatory?"
To me, waybrain is a specific term noting one who was/is indoctrinated with way doctrine. According to twi indoctrination.........waybrain is the ULTIMATE in renewed mind consciousness. No, of course twi isn't going to call it "waybrain".........twi labels it "the renewed mind."
Another way of looking at waybrain.......our discussions here at GS are "separating truth from error"
................or, separating the things of God from the "traditions of man."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
Removed - the topic is Waybrain, not another poster
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
I don't believe that believing what TWI taught necessarily indicates Waybrain. After all, many people here, after thoughtful and/or prayerful consideration have come to similar conclusions on some issues as Wierwille did. Surely we don't believe that every non-Trinitarian Christian, or Christian who believes that the dead are not consciously alive is suffering from Waybrain, do we?
Sure Waybrain is a made-up word. All words are at one time or another. Think about all the technical terms, industry jargon, government-speak, etc that have been coined in the last 20-30 years.
Apparently we don't all agree with what Waybrain is.
My definition is the condition where one unthinkingly and reflexively thinks or says or thinks TWI dogma.
Sometimes Waybrain is obvious, more often it is not. If someone voulteers to string the chairs while setting up for a PTA meeting, did they think that through, deciding after careful consideration that it was the most efficient way to set up the room, or did it float up to the forebrain unbidden due to years of indoctrination setting up rooms? The situations in which it is easier to correctly identify Waybrain is when a doctrinal point is questioned and the response is a quote from PFAL or Wierwille that doesn't really answer the question.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
If someone wants to trash the carnal mind, then I think that would have been different. The carnal mind is trashed in scripture no matter who it is (saint and sinner alike) or where they might be or who they fellowship with. Contrast that with the term "Waybrain" ... appears to be trashing only Way participants irrespective of whether they have a carnal mind or not, whether they do God's will or not. I don't know all of these people but it seems to label all of them nuts because of the religious affiliation. Joe Smith wants to attend fellowships in twi therefore he is afflicted with "Waybrain". Seems like not a very nice thing to say about people who for all anyone knows wants to simply participate in a religion; personally I prefer to get to know people first before labelling in a negative way and even then would think twice because this is the U.S. of America with freedom of religion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
Someone can believe Way doctrinal points and not be waybrained, i think.
Waybrain comes in with the arrogance, the mistreatment of others, the viewing others as enemy, entitlement(leaders) commanding respect not earning it(leaders)...not being able to handle dissent or discussion, the overwhelming need for likemindedness, vilifying those different.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
It is not a question of feeling slighted ,nor did I ask for pro talk, I did ask that my religious beliefs were not disparaged I think that is in the rules. Those who worked hard on the new rules just settled the wierwille apologist question this is nothing more than another veiled attempt to label where that left off. . If you want to allow it it's your call. That's fine with me ,it works both ways.
PS I would expect at each site for them to speak honestly and not disparage each other one can do that with out pro talk.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
I object!
I had no such motive when I started this thread.
In fact, I was reading another thread and thought to myself that I wasn't sure that when we used the word "Waybrain" that we all meant the same thing.
If I say the word "bird" here in Texas, most people get a mind picture of a sparrow or a mockingbird. However if you say the same word in Australia, a different image might come to mind.
And just suppose the elements of Waybrainism are really just cultism?
I'm curious as to what elements of your religious beliefs have been disparaged on this thread?
..."truth with a capital 'T'?"
A while back I saw a show on Nova in which different theories were discussed. The theory of relativity was good until it no longer described a certain aspect of the universe, so along came quantum theory, which when found to be equally limiting led to string theory.
It seems that scientists are fine with more than one "truth" to define that which they are seeking answers to. Isn't that more honest than trying to fit God in one box of "truth?" I believe there is a "Truth" but I"m comfortable in saying that I won't know it all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
And that is your choice me I'm comfortable with what scripture says and it says I can, if you want to refer to what some scientists said as your truth tha' ts fine by me. I don't feel the need to call it mindless as some have refered t my choice. And that is the difference.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Okay... but which "truth"?
Catholic? Episcopalian? Seventh Day Adventist? Jewish? twi? ....keep adding the truth of your choice... ad infinitum.
Isn't it possible that they all have elements of truth? That not one of them contains all the truth?
Or are you suggesting that man has God figured out?
IMHO that is the arrogance that I learned in twi - that I could not only understand the Creator of the Universe, but "make" Him do as I demanded in the name of His son. Bind him to His word. Look like a lawyer for some loophole somewhere to get what you want.
And THAT arrogance, is a definite element of Waybrain.
(Edited to add that I think that it's ironic that twi has been labeled as another religion here on this thread.)
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
However neither of us said that TWI doctrine or those who believed TWI doctrine were mindless, or mindlessly believed it, but that Waybrain described those who did mindlessly, unthinkingly, reflexively believe it.
Saying that TWI doctrines or beliefs were being called mindless is the logical fallacy of the strawman argument; i.e. arguing against a position that the other side is not actually taking.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
I don't believe that truth is determined by denominations. you may add any you like, having elements is not the same as having truth. It' is a part not a whole. The scripture is clear to me, you'll have to find your own way. And what you describe as arrogance, way brained I see as confidence in scripture.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
My point is that no one belief system (religious theory - if you will) can possibly define the Truth.
And while you look to a certain set of scripture, there are others in the world that look to the Apocrypha along with the accepted Canon of scripture.
And what good is scripture if you don't understand it? The understanding is where any religious belief system derives it's power base. That is the theory.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
You know I'd love to continue this discussion and answer all the above posts, but then in this level.... Cough Cough .......playing field it will be me who gets the repremand for answering your off topic posts. So I'll decline... I'm done ,thanks anyway.......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.