Re:"A sneak preview of forthcoming events, can't tell you how I got this info so don't ask."
Like I posted you on the other thread.. Can you even imagine someone in a mainstream (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian etc.) church being afraid to reveal what they know about their church for fear of reprisals? How much longer can current TWI "members" continue to ignore the obvious? But then again.. there are folks who still believe the world is flat... no kidding.
A sneak preview of forthcoming events, can't tell you how I got this info so don't ask.
Specially announced over the Cafe megaphone but not yet announced within the walls of Zion:
The theme for the next ministry year at TWI, to be announced on October 5, 2008, is (drum roll):
Serving the Lord with Gladness
Wow, how exciting.
Since the Lord is "absent" he can't really be served directly. In this day and age, to serve the Lord is really to serve "The Ministry."
So what this really means is to Serve the Ministry with Gladness.
Stop complaining about having nothing to offer new folks. Stop asking silly questions about money and old lawsuits and stuff.
Shut the hell up and be glad that Rosie (et al) are there taking care of the spiritual things for you.
Be glad that Rosie and gang are there to take your abundant sharing and use it for the "Lord's Work". (Feeding the poor and all the other wonderful things they do for folks.)
Shut the hell up, send more money, and be glad that you belong to the true household !
Why can't the Lord and the ministry be served at the same time?
In singleness of heart, fearing God:
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
It is possible to serve the Lord Christ in twi, or by selling donuts at Dunkin Donuts if that is where someone with the heart and mindset of Col 3:23,24 happens to work.
TLB: What's in my own purse is a mystery even to me!
Sudo: I know. Anyone else would laugh. The church I go to launched an event called "Hope 08" which is supposed to be outreach by all the churches in the city to the city as a whole. It was launched in January. Everyone knew we were preparing for it from about October.
Goey: Exactly.
Oldiesman: Glad you found the Lord within TWI but in later years, he was a bit hard to find. But it was mighty easy to find homosexuals.
So, is anyone asking Paw for an application form to serve as wait staff in the Cafe?
Why can't the Lord and the ministry be served at the same time?
In singleness of heart, fearing God:
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
It is possible to serve the Lord Christ in twi, or by selling donuts at Dunkin Donuts if that is where someone with the heart and mindset of Col 3:23,24 happens to work.
Gee.....could the Apostle Paul have "served the Lord Jesus" and stayed hell-bent on Phariseeism rule..??
Why can't the Lord and the ministry be served at the same time?
In theory a "ministry" could be served simultaneously with The Lord, if the goals and actions of "the ministry" were identical with those of The Lord.
I believe that "the ministry" attempted to define what serving the Lord meant in terms of what was best for "the ministry", putting "the ministry" first and The Lord second.
And we give a gee golly whiz whinky dinky what TWI is doing? There are so many other more worthy causes to trouble ourselves with. Seriously, get a job, read a book, or better yet.....get involved in your community and help somebody. Obviously, some have too much time on their hands. Hmmm, busybodies.....seems like I have read that somewhere......
While we are poking fingers we could use those fingers and hands to help somebody.
Gee.....could the Apostle Paul have "served the Lord Jesus" and stayed hell-bent on Phariseeism rule..??
Obviously not as Jesus himself appeared and condemned his actions.
With Christians today, I think it depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the decision.
If a heart and mindset is to obstruct and hate and want Christians destroyed, I think no.
If a heart and mindset is to have a desire to help people learn God's will as Jesus did, I think yes.
Col. is addressed to Christians who have a desire to put God first in their life so I don't see why it wouldn't apply to folks in twi... if that is their mindset to put God first, they are part of the body of Christ just like any other Christian would be...
In theory a "minsitry" could be served simultaneously with The Lord, if the goals and actions of "the ministry" were identical with those of The Lord.
I believe that "the ministry" attempted to define what serving the Lord meant in terms of what was best for "the ministry", putting "the ministry" first and The Lord second.
I think they believe that the ministry programs are in accordance with what the Lord would want so there is little difference, ultimately one has to decide if it represents what the Lord would want, and I believe those who participate in twi think they are doing that. BTW I think this is true of all religion... for instance the religion of my youth has programs they think the Lord wants, so they think they are serving the Lord with gladness too. They could be. I have more tolerance today then many years ago. But at the same time, I don't condemn twi for having programs either ... this is America with freedom of religion, I thank God we have it.
TWI, despite its slogans about studying "The Word", has always been about putting the organization and its leaders first. In any situation where a wayfer believes that what "The Lord" says is different than what TWI leadership says, "The Lord" loses.
Why can't the Lord and the ministry be served at the same time?
This (rhetorical) question presumes that a "ministry" could or should be "served" ..... and at the same level and at the same time as serving "the Lord".
Where in any scripture is it suggested that a ministry be served? In contrast, the scripture says " "No man can serve two masters." To put service to the "ministry" anywhere near the same level as service to the Lord is missing it completely.
It seems to me that putting service to the ministry above service to the Lord (or equating the two), was a huge part of what allowed the "ministry" to run roughshod over folks .... and huge part of what lead to the many abuses in TWI.
It is possible to serve the Lord Christ in twi, or by selling donuts at Dunkin Donuts if that is where someone with the heart and mindset of Col 3:23,24 happens to work.
Sure it is "possible" to serve Christ while being "in" TWI, but it not possible to serve the Lord simply by serving TWI and the will of its leaders -- (the ministry). Given TWI's track record, my guess is that the programs are likely designed to be self-serving to ministry and its bottom line ..... at the expense of those who have been led to think that they serve the Lord by serving the ministry.
What is "possible" and what is likely or prudent are many times quite different.
Since the Lord is "absent" he can't really be served directly. In this day and age, to serve the Lord is really to serve "The Ministry."
So what this really means is to Serve the Ministry with Gladness.
Stop complaining about having nothing to offer new folks. Stop asking silly questions about money and old lawsuits and stuff.
Shut the hell up and be glad that Rosie (et al) are there taking care of the spiritual things for you.
Be glad that Rosie and gang are there to take your abundant sharing and use it for the "Lord's Work". (Feeding the poor and all the other wonderful things they do for folks.)
Shut the hell up, send more money, and be glad that you belong to the true household !
In theory a "ministry" could be served simultaneously with The Lord, if the goals and actions of "the ministry" were identical with those of The Lord.
I believe that "the ministry" attempted to define what serving the Lord meant in terms of what was best for "the ministry", putting "the ministry" first and The Lord second.
TWI, despite its slogans about studying "The Word", has always been about putting the organization and its leaders first. In any situation where a wayfer believes that what "The Lord" says is different than what TWI leadership says, "The Lord" loses.
Good points! Perhaps one of the greatest secrets in The Way today [and for that matter, of just about any day in time past] is the old switcheroo that is pulled on followers. It is a subtle process whereby the personalities, doctrines, and agenda of TWI slowly become superimposed over any personal concept of the Lord a follower may have.
This subversive process is carried out in a surreptitious manner by leadership who often focus the attention of their audience through the opaque "lens" of vp's glass eye [aka the TWI mindset] – brethren, do you see the light?And they couch teachings and private counsel in such an authoritative manner as to suggest it's on par with Scripture… The absent Christ – you betcha!
"Serving the Lord with Gladness" …Sounds like the same old manipulative tactic when I was in. It wasn't a feeling or attitude that originated in the person. It was not something genuine or spontaneous. Leadership were a hybrid salesmen/drill sergeant facilitator for TWI: You don't enjoy witnessing? Renew your mind!...God loves a cheerful giver – if you don't feel like it – give anyway – you can't go by feelings…Quit complaining about setting up for another class. Serve the Lord with gladness. Just keep serving and the gladness will come.
Thinking about all this – reminded me of a thread in doctrinal on the relationship of worship and service. With as much admiration [even reverence], that many followers hold of vp's stuff it kinda makes me wonder who or what they're really serving:
In theory a "ministry" could be served simultaneously with The Lord, if the goals and actions of "the ministry" were identical with those of The Lord.
I believe that "the ministry" attempted to define what serving the Lord meant in terms of what was best for "the ministry", putting "the ministry" first and The Lord second.
What an astute observation!!! "The best laid plans of mice and men go astray when consumed in their own lusts
and ways.
They not only put GOD second, but sometimes last and eventually at times He was not at all
involved in their ministry.
IMHO they started out with pure or at least good intentions and were dissuaded by power, greed and
sexual perversions. All things that they very early on claimed were the most devilish and destructive of
corruptions against GOD! They were deceived within their own doctrinal boundaries by the of treachery and
trickery that they initially expounded to be evil and corrupt. I think this was due to their arrogance and pride;
too blind or unwilling to restrain themselves or to ever admit their errors or faults! If You don't or won't admit
In theory a "ministry" could be served simultaneously with The Lord, if the goals and actions of "the ministry" were identical with those of The Lord.
I believe that "the ministry" attempted to define what serving the Lord meant in terms of what was best for "the ministry", putting "the ministry" first and The Lord second.
I'd go further and say that TWI tried to define everything.
They certainly defined "the Lord" not only what serving the Lord meant.
Gee.....could the Apostle Paul have "served the Lord Jesus" and stayed hell-bent on Phariseeism rule..??
Obviously not as Jesus himself appeared and condemned his actions.
The essence of this is that when Jesus appeared, Paul changed his mindset completely and followed Jesus. Then later he had further visitations and revelations from him.
TWI claims to receive revelation about certain things but we only have their word for it and as such revelation sometimes runs contrary to clear scripture on like matters, one has to ask, was there any revelation to begin with? And if so - from whom?
And TWI is hell-bent on being Pharisees. Legalists. You must do it this way. You must obey. You must do what we want even in the face of scripture stating the opposite.
And actually they don't really want "gladness". That would be an "emotion" and therefore to be squished. Any expression of joy of heart, or excitement and enthusiasm, outside the carefully trammelled proscriptions of TWI is not "decent and in order."
King David with his whrling and dancing in his gladness of heart would have been severely dealt with. His wife Michal's condemnatory attitude condemned her to childlessness - she was barren. Is it any surprise that TWI's joyless condemnatory watchfulness makes it barren and unfruitful?
People, we're losing track of the real topic here, and as Twinky stated so well: Innies - get ready to serve!
Indeed - Ineez start your engines and break out the kneepads, there's work to be done and fortunately you'll be able to do more of it, faster and better as you won't need to sell all of your stuff for a dime on the dollar, loan what's left to people who will never return it, quit your job, break your leases and do whatever else is required to be where you need to be when you need to be there which would probably be somewhere half way across the country from where you are now...no, you'll be able to stay right where you are and serve.
Which begs the question, tell us again why there's a program needed for that, to stay right where I am and do what I could be doing anyway?
I suspect the current price of gas has something to do with it and the Way will certainly want to gloat while receiving the required bowing and scraping from their grateful followers for doing what any normal citizen is doing anyway - staying at home. Indeedy doo, there's probably some "revelation" involved, "guidance", still small voices in the night whispering "4 dollars a gallon - when it hits 5 she's a gonna blow!" So surely this is the day, the time, the place, the best thing to do for anyone who wants to be doing the best thing and who wouldn't?
Best of all this will allow those who Sign Up To Serve to step into a special Place of Bestness in their local fellowships where they can be recognized for their service and be Good Examples of What It Means To Be The Best.
Gee..if no relocation needed, then no real excuses not to sign up either--especially since the innies are to serve the lord twi with gladness
I promise you I have heard teachings in this decade that stated that a sold out commitment to Christ meant you had to be sold out to twi. This was in leadership meeting as well as a branch meeting.
au contraire, the Lord never loses. What is that verse about being preached in contention.
I think you misunderstood, or perhaps I wasn't clear: if what TWI (The Ministry) said differed from what The Lord said, they went with what "The Ministry" said, reinterpreting what The Lord said so that it would appear to agree with what the ministry said.
Obviously, from a Christian perspective, the Lord doesn't lose.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Twinky, thought TWI was going to say The greatest secret in the world today IS what is inside a women's purse(if you can find anything in it).
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Sudo
Twinky,
Re:"A sneak preview of forthcoming events, can't tell you how I got this info so don't ask."
Like I posted you on the other thread.. Can you even imagine someone in a mainstream (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian etc.) church being afraid to reveal what they know about their church for fear of reprisals? How much longer can current TWI "members" continue to ignore the obvious? But then again.. there are folks who still believe the world is flat... no kidding.
sudo
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Goey
Wow, how exciting.
Since the Lord is "absent" he can't really be served directly. In this day and age, to serve the Lord is really to serve "The Ministry."
So what this really means is to Serve the Ministry with Gladness.
Stop complaining about having nothing to offer new folks. Stop asking silly questions about money and old lawsuits and stuff.
Shut the hell up and be glad that Rosie (et al) are there taking care of the spiritual things for you.
Be glad that Rosie and gang are there to take your abundant sharing and use it for the "Lord's Work". (Feeding the poor and all the other wonderful things they do for folks.)
Shut the hell up, send more money, and be glad that you belong to the true household !
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oldiesman
Why can't the Lord and the ministry be served at the same time?
In singleness of heart, fearing God:
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
It is possible to serve the Lord Christ in twi, or by selling donuts at Dunkin Donuts if that is where someone with the heart and mindset of Col 3:23,24 happens to work.
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Twinky
TLB: What's in my own purse is a mystery even to me!
Sudo: I know. Anyone else would laugh. The church I go to launched an event called "Hope 08" which is supposed to be outreach by all the churches in the city to the city as a whole. It was launched in January. Everyone knew we were preparing for it from about October.
Goey: Exactly.
Oldiesman: Glad you found the Lord within TWI but in later years, he was a bit hard to find. But it was mighty easy to find homosexuals.
So, is anyone asking Paw for an application form to serve as wait staff in the Cafe?
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skyrider
Gee.....could the Apostle Paul have "served the Lord Jesus" and stayed hell-bent on Phariseeism rule..??
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outintexas
Will there be a new poster too? I certainly hope so!
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Twinky
You have the complete collection, OutinTexas? (tonque in cheek)
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Oakspear
I believe that "the ministry" attempted to define what serving the Lord meant in terms of what was best for "the ministry", putting "the ministry" first and The Lord second.
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kimberly
And we give a gee golly whiz whinky dinky what TWI is doing? There are so many other more worthy causes to trouble ourselves with. Seriously, get a job, read a book, or better yet.....get involved in your community and help somebody. Obviously, some have too much time on their hands. Hmmm, busybodies.....seems like I have read that somewhere......
While we are poking fingers we could use those fingers and hands to help somebody.
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oldiesman
Obviously not as Jesus himself appeared and condemned his actions.
With Christians today, I think it depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the decision.
If a heart and mindset is to obstruct and hate and want Christians destroyed, I think no.
If a heart and mindset is to have a desire to help people learn God's will as Jesus did, I think yes.
Col. is addressed to Christians who have a desire to put God first in their life so I don't see why it wouldn't apply to folks in twi... if that is their mindset to put God first, they are part of the body of Christ just like any other Christian would be...
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oldiesman
I think they believe that the ministry programs are in accordance with what the Lord would want so there is little difference, ultimately one has to decide if it represents what the Lord would want, and I believe those who participate in twi think they are doing that. BTW I think this is true of all religion... for instance the religion of my youth has programs they think the Lord wants, so they think they are serving the Lord with gladness too. They could be. I have more tolerance today then many years ago. But at the same time, I don't condemn twi for having programs either ... this is America with freedom of religion, I thank God we have it.
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Oakspear
TWI, despite its slogans about studying "The Word", has always been about putting the organization and its leaders first. In any situation where a wayfer believes that what "The Lord" says is different than what TWI leadership says, "The Lord" loses.
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Goey
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coolchef
imo
the way
has always put the lord first
only problem?
they think they are the lord
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T-Bone
This subversive process is carried out in a surreptitious manner by leadership who often focus the attention of their audience through the opaque "lens" of vp's glass eye [aka the TWI mindset] – brethren, do you see the light?
And they couch teachings and private counsel in such an authoritative manner as to suggest it's on par with Scripture… The absent Christ – you betcha!
"Serving the Lord with Gladness" …Sounds like the same old manipulative tactic when I was in. It wasn't a feeling or attitude that originated in the person. It was not something genuine or spontaneous. Leadership were a hybrid salesmen/drill sergeant facilitator for TWI: You don't enjoy witnessing? Renew your mind!...God loves a cheerful giver – if you don't feel like it – give anyway – you can't go by feelings…Quit complaining about setting up for another class. Serve the Lord with gladness. Just keep serving and the gladness will come.
Thinking about all this – reminded me of a thread in doctrinal on the relationship of worship and service. With as much admiration [even reverence], that many followers hold of vp's stuff it kinda makes me wonder who or what they're really serving:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=265170
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RainbowsGirl
Qakspear:
What an astute observation!!! "The best laid plans of mice and men go astray when consumed in their own lusts
and ways.
They not only put GOD second, but sometimes last and eventually at times He was not at all
involved in their ministry.
IMHO they started out with pure or at least good intentions and were dissuaded by power, greed and
sexual perversions. All things that they very early on claimed were the most devilish and destructive of
corruptions against GOD! They were deceived within their own doctrinal boundaries by the of treachery and
trickery that they initially expounded to be evil and corrupt. I think this was due to their arrogance and pride;
too blind or unwilling to restrain themselves or to ever admit their errors or faults! If You don't or won't admit
you are wrong, How can you really change or grow.
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doojable
I'd go further and say that TWI tried to define everything.
They certainly defined "the Lord" not only what serving the Lord meant.
It reminds me of a play on stage...
Define the characters
Define the "rules"
Define the boundaries
Define the world
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kimberly
au contraire, the Lord never loses. What is that verse about being preached in contention.
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Twinky
The essence of this is that when Jesus appeared, Paul changed his mindset completely and followed Jesus. Then later he had further visitations and revelations from him.
TWI claims to receive revelation about certain things but we only have their word for it and as such revelation sometimes runs contrary to clear scripture on like matters, one has to ask, was there any revelation to begin with? And if so - from whom?
And TWI is hell-bent on being Pharisees. Legalists. You must do it this way. You must obey. You must do what we want even in the face of scripture stating the opposite.
And actually they don't really want "gladness". That would be an "emotion" and therefore to be squished. Any expression of joy of heart, or excitement and enthusiasm, outside the carefully trammelled proscriptions of TWI is not "decent and in order."
King David with his whrling and dancing in his gladness of heart would have been severely dealt with. His wife Michal's condemnatory attitude condemned her to childlessness - she was barren. Is it any surprise that TWI's joyless condemnatory watchfulness makes it barren and unfruitful?
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socks
People, we're losing track of the real topic here, and as Twinky stated so well: Innies - get ready to serve!
Indeed - Ineez start your engines and break out the kneepads, there's work to be done and fortunately you'll be able to do more of it, faster and better as you won't need to sell all of your stuff for a dime on the dollar, loan what's left to people who will never return it, quit your job, break your leases and do whatever else is required to be where you need to be when you need to be there which would probably be somewhere half way across the country from where you are now...no, you'll be able to stay right where you are and serve.
Which begs the question, tell us again why there's a program needed for that, to stay right where I am and do what I could be doing anyway?
I suspect the current price of gas has something to do with it and the Way will certainly want to gloat while receiving the required bowing and scraping from their grateful followers for doing what any normal citizen is doing anyway - staying at home. Indeedy doo, there's probably some "revelation" involved, "guidance", still small voices in the night whispering "4 dollars a gallon - when it hits 5 she's a gonna blow!" So surely this is the day, the time, the place, the best thing to do for anyone who wants to be doing the best thing and who wouldn't?
Best of all this will allow those who Sign Up To Serve to step into a special Place of Bestness in their local fellowships where they can be recognized for their service and be Good Examples of What It Means To Be The Best.
Really, who can afford NOT to sign up to serve?
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ChasUFarley
There's generally a pattern to their themes - one year it's outreach and the next year it's "inward reach"...
(Chas is waiting patiently for Sushi or Socks or some other wise guy to come along to twist that "inward reach" comment....) :blink:
LCM is gone... why the kneepads?
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penguin
Gee..if no relocation needed, then no real excuses not to sign up either--especially since the innies are to serve the lord twi with gladness
I promise you I have heard teachings in this decade that stated that a sold out commitment to Christ meant you had to be sold out to twi. This was in leadership meeting as well as a branch meeting.
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Oakspear
Obviously, from a Christian perspective, the Lord doesn't lose.
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