I don't want to put on airs. I was at best a "medium shot." The real big shots wouldn't even recognize my name.
I met the leader, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi of Beatle's fame, only a few times -- and never had a personal conversation with him. It was a really large movement back in the 70s.
I also am a health care professional, a Licensed Practical Nurse, but most of my asssessments in Nursing Homes are when a patients behaviors and attitudes become harmful to themselves or others, I have patients with a wide spectrum of personalities and beliefs....
This Topic got me thinking about many of the habits and beliefs that Way Ministry people take with them after they've left the cult.....and I know these habits have colored my life ever since, affecting my relationships with others.....(just got to tell you this anectodote : I was in a rock band after I left the Way, and after one jam session my bass player said, "Great jam 'bro"....My mind recoiled...'he hasn't had the "class" (PFAL) he doesnt speak in tongues" so I blurted out...'Your not my bro!'.....I feel bad about that now years later because it actually caused that guy some pain and it was a Way response for sure)
I will definitely check out and join your website to hopefully learn more about these things. You seem to be providing a great service, not only to us and people like us, but to those young kids we encounter who may be in a cult or about to join a cult...and theres lotsa kids like this out there, because the suicide rate is way up, and drug abuse, and general mental and socio-personal stress that makes it really hard to be a kid!
I am thinking of a young kid I met on my gaming site who confided in me that he sniffs glue, I have been trying in my aged wisdom ( Lol) to convince him to stop, and it breaks my heart to see kids being so messed up nowadays...
OK enuff said....glad your here and let the healing begin! Lol
My therapy came from posting freely at GSC. Thank God there were people here willing to listen and let me vent. I experienced a lot of anger when I first left. I believe there is a normal and healthy period of anger in situations, but hanging on to that anger only hurts yourself. My exit was similar to a divorce. I ended up in a divorce care group every week for several months which helped me to learn that I could forgive even if the other party never said they were sorry. It was kind of weird for the other people in the group. I actually did go there for divorce care. I had been divorced for several years and had just gotten out of a crappy relationship, so I thought I needed some divorce care to try to learn to make better relationship decision in my future. It was a godsend.
for your sharing -- and the kind words. I sometimes have trouble sharing my own experiences on forums, which I think is pretty funny given my profession. But I hope to gradually feel more comfortable and share more here.
On another topic, I got a PM with some questions about the cult recovery support group that I'm starting. I figure other people may have similar questions, so I thought I'd post some details.
The group will take place in a closed, private chat room at public-talk.com. It won't be available to anyone via Google. The room is secure and password protected. The transcript will disappear the moment we all leave the room. And I urge everyone to use a handle that they don't use anywhere else on the Internet.
There will be a variety of cults represented. I think this is the best for good results. Looking at other cults often gives us unusual perspectives we wouldn't have thought of otherwise. In fact, I'm likely to make sure that people with similar group experiences are in separate groups. (It's looking like I may open a second group based on demand.)
Thanks to the individual who PM'd me for asking great questions. I'm sure many people are unsure what to make of doing a support group online!
Who knows, John, you might find help and support here to sort out some of your remaining residual issues. This stuff, as you know, is very pernicious.
I got talking with an elderly friend of mine and her two daughters, who are both about my age, about their experiences in the Plymouth Brethren. It was interesting - they had to deal with many of the same issues that I (and others at the Cafe) have had to deal with. They still have residual issues even though for them it is over 20 years since they were out. They just attended their local congregation - not any pseudo-leadership training to further ingrain it. For me it was good to see that other cult survivors had suffered similarly and I wasn't such a freak.
Like ExCath, I suffered profound depression after I got very viciously expelled (marked and avoided) and the idea of suicide briefly crossed my mind (but I though I'd be a failure at that, too....). As Corps and having taken a salt covenant, my sense of failure and my desperation were absolute.
Nervous breakdown? Mental illness? Perhaps, nothing diagnosed; I just know I wasn't functioning anywhere near properly. Knowing (via the Cafe) that others including Corps have been through the same stuff has been immensely healing. And every day gets better and I'm more thrillingly alive.
I hope your chat group / group therapy brings closure and release to the participants. And to you, too.
Just to clarify, I wasn't in any way referring to your kind offer of help in my earlier post. As RG correctly stated, I was referring to the snide remarks/implications some people made about certain other posters' need for therapy. I feel the moderators were correct in deleting the names of the people at whom the snide remarks were directed.
Nice to have you here John. Go mental.....er I mean nuts. We need all the help we can get.
:D
Too late! I went mental long ago!
J.
Who knows, John, you might find help and support here to sort out some of your remaining residual issues. This stuff, as you know, is very pernicious.
I got talking with an elderly friend of mine and her two daughters, who are both about my age, about their experiences in the Plymouth Brethren. It was interesting - they had to deal with many of the same issues that I (and others at the Cafe) have had to deal with. They still have residual issues even though for them it is over 20 years since they were out. They just attended their local congregation - not any pseudo-leadership training to further ingrain it. For me it was good to see that other cult survivors had suffered similarly and I wasn't such a freak.
Like ExCath, I suffered profound depression after I got very viciously expelled (marked and avoided) and the idea of suicide briefly crossed my mind (but I though I'd be a failure at that, too....). As Corps and having taken a salt covenant, my sense of failure and my desperation were absolute.
Nervous breakdown? Mental illness? Perhaps, nothing diagnosed; I just know I wasn't functioning anywhere near properly. Knowing (via the Cafe) that others including Corps have been through the same stuff has been immensely healing. And every day gets better and I'm more thrillingly alive.
I hope your chat group / group therapy brings closure and release to the participants. And to you, too.
Thanks for the kind words, Twinky.
Like so most members of my profession, I got involved because because I had been touched by needs for help and have some family members who have needed help, too.
I always say I get as much or more from working with my clients as they do!
Just to clarify, I wasn't in any way referring to your kind offer of help in my earlier post. As RG correctly stated, I was referring to the snide remarks/implications some people made about certain other posters' need for therapy. I feel the moderators were correct in deleting the names of the people at whom the snide remarks were directed.
Hi, LZ,
Thanks for your clarification. I think it's great the moderators are active in maintaining respectful communication. I know it's pretty hard here in the Wild Wild West -- er, I mean the Internet.
Hi John. Have looked through your site and posts here, and just wanted to say how encouraging your approach is. I particularly noticed your effort to put visibility into how you charge - I think that's admirable. Very upfront, designed to accomodate, reasonable. I'm sure you could charge more.
A lot of how I view my time in the Way is based on the fact that I felt, by my own mind, self-directed. Yes, there's a "spiritual" component to that, as a Christian I feel that God has been involved in my life, my family's. Yet, I have always had a clear sense of "self", who I am. That's been defined to a great degree by my relationship with my wife, who I've known since I was a teenager, and been married to since I was 20. So that relationship and our own vision for ourselves has been part of my baseline for - well, my whole adult life, really. Everything else comes "into" that so to speak, influences yes but never takes control. That's kind of vague but I hope it makes sense.
I'm coming up on 38 years of marriage with my wife and one thing we both feel strongly about is the value of communication, being able to "just talk". Not having anyone to share with, be open and honest with is difficult for many people we've known. GS speaks to that I think, the open forum for just saying what's on a person's mind. I thnk it's part of the foundation for a healthy mental and emotional state.
Wanted to ask too - I'd be curious as to how you see the discussions that go on here - not asking for a judgment but just a read from you on the types of exchanges that occur on GS. Any suggestions, advice? What works, helps, etc. Your perspective?
Wanted to ask too - I'd be curious as to how you see the discussions that go on here - not asking for a judgment but just a read from you on the types of exchanges that occur on GS. Any suggestions, advice? What works, helps, etc. Your perspective?
Hi, socks,
Thanks for the kind words.
It sounds like you have a wonderful relationship with your wife! Are you saying that your relationship helped you get through recovery from TWI? I've notice people who have kept relations with family (and mates) open seem to recover more easily and smoothly.
There seem to be different kinds of exchanges. Some are casually social. Some are personally revealing. Some are more extreme, where two sides don't seem to understand each other -- and can even get hateful toward each other.
While not a truly "therapeutic" forum, I can readily see how many people get comfort and all the self-help they need here.
I respect the wide latitude allowed in speech here. I do imagine, however, that some people do get hurt.
Hi John, thanks for the response. Yes, we're happy. :) I do benefit greatly from the gracious twist of life that brought her into mine.
I don't use the word "recovery" to describe my passage through these last many years. I understand it, and how it can apply however. For whatever reasons, I don't sense that I "recovered" from something. It seems like a long string of years and events lived that are still counting. Fortunately.
Although there were some negative influences through my own involvement with the Way, not many that stuck. All remembered, yes. There were actually quite a few good ones, odd though that may seem to some. I can only speak for myself, really and my family.
I view them as lessons learned, things I got through or past and eventually balanced into some level of understanding that works for me. Is that recovery? If so, I don't feel like it's an ongoing effort. What's done is done. This was all a long time ago, nearly 18 years but nothing ever seemed to be a deal breaker once we "left".
I'm a what you see is what you get kind of person. I don't believe that the past is ever completely "gone" though - in fact I think present-state and current existence is the compilation of everything that's completed up to that point. At any given point we are exactly who we've been. Period. I've often pondered why life is like that rather than a series of disconnected events that could be handled separately, but that would require an entire retooling of hmm, everything. Still, I can manually review and then respond to specific instances and events out of sequence, which I would describe as going to the recovery efforts and processes that we use or try to, when we do.
At this exact moment however I'm making the material I can recall at the next point of recognition, well, I am and a lot of other forces other than me. But at the next point I take a measurement I can only really directly perceive what is happening at that moment, and any others before in retrospect aren't negotiable. I may not even know exactly what they mean or how they stack up at that point, but they're viewable, "remembered".
An unchangeable past makes for an interesting present that's always fluid and in forward motion. Living in the moment successfully is difficult I find. So I try - "try" to use caution and care proceeding.
That's where my relationship figures in, I think, yes. That's a point of trust and familiarity that I can weigh in against. There's also a joined awareness, one that we share, together. So we're kind of joined at the mental hip so to speak. It does help, yes.
I thought I'd add another free self-support service I offer. At http://knappfamilycounseling.com/phpBB3/index.php I host a forum. It is specifically aimed at people looking for a therapeutically focused forum with other people who share their issues. It is NOT a replacement for this great forum.
It is not too active right now, but there are some good threads to read. It is open to all (for free). Check it out!
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John M Knapp LMSW
Hi, ex,
I don't want to put on airs. I was at best a "medium shot." The real big shots wouldn't even recognize my name.
I met the leader, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi of Beatle's fame, only a few times -- and never had a personal conversation with him. It was a really large movement back in the 70s.
J.
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Steveo
Hello Mr Knapp,
Nice to meet you!
I also am a health care professional, a Licensed Practical Nurse, but most of my asssessments in Nursing Homes are when a patients behaviors and attitudes become harmful to themselves or others, I have patients with a wide spectrum of personalities and beliefs....
This Topic got me thinking about many of the habits and beliefs that Way Ministry people take with them after they've left the cult.....and I know these habits have colored my life ever since, affecting my relationships with others.....(just got to tell you this anectodote : I was in a rock band after I left the Way, and after one jam session my bass player said, "Great jam 'bro"....My mind recoiled...'he hasn't had the "class" (PFAL) he doesnt speak in tongues" so I blurted out...'Your not my bro!'.....I feel bad about that now years later because it actually caused that guy some pain and it was a Way response for sure)
I will definitely check out and join your website to hopefully learn more about these things. You seem to be providing a great service, not only to us and people like us, but to those young kids we encounter who may be in a cult or about to join a cult...and theres lotsa kids like this out there, because the suicide rate is way up, and drug abuse, and general mental and socio-personal stress that makes it really hard to be a kid!
I am thinking of a young kid I met on my gaming site who confided in me that he sniffs glue, I have been trying in my aged wisdom ( Lol) to convince him to stop, and it breaks my heart to see kids being so messed up nowadays...
OK enuff said....glad your here and let the healing begin! Lol
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Nottawayfer
My therapy came from posting freely at GSC. Thank God there were people here willing to listen and let me vent. I experienced a lot of anger when I first left. I believe there is a normal and healthy period of anger in situations, but hanging on to that anger only hurts yourself. My exit was similar to a divorce. I ended up in a divorce care group every week for several months which helped me to learn that I could forgive even if the other party never said they were sorry. It was kind of weird for the other people in the group. I actually did go there for divorce care. I had been divorced for several years and had just gotten out of a crappy relationship, so I thought I needed some divorce care to try to learn to make better relationship decision in my future. It was a godsend.
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excathedra
that is so cool nottie
similar thing happend to sunesis when she went to al-anon i believe
when i left the way, i left my life, my marriage, my friends, my home, my job
oh it was so horrible. i think i might have had a nervous breakdown for a while
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John M Knapp LMSW
Thanks steveo, notawayfer, ex,
for your sharing -- and the kind words. I sometimes have trouble sharing my own experiences on forums, which I think is pretty funny given my profession. But I hope to gradually feel more comfortable and share more here.
On another topic, I got a PM with some questions about the cult recovery support group that I'm starting. I figure other people may have similar questions, so I thought I'd post some details.
The group will take place in a closed, private chat room at public-talk.com. It won't be available to anyone via Google. The room is secure and password protected. The transcript will disappear the moment we all leave the room. And I urge everyone to use a handle that they don't use anywhere else on the Internet.
There will be a variety of cults represented. I think this is the best for good results. Looking at other cults often gives us unusual perspectives we wouldn't have thought of otherwise. In fact, I'm likely to make sure that people with similar group experiences are in separate groups. (It's looking like I may open a second group based on demand.)
Thanks to the individual who PM'd me for asking great questions. I'm sure many people are unsure what to make of doing a support group online!
J.
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polar bear
Nice to have you here John. Go mental.....er I mean nuts. We need all the help we can get.
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Twinky
Who knows, John, you might find help and support here to sort out some of your remaining residual issues. This stuff, as you know, is very pernicious.
I got talking with an elderly friend of mine and her two daughters, who are both about my age, about their experiences in the Plymouth Brethren. It was interesting - they had to deal with many of the same issues that I (and others at the Cafe) have had to deal with. They still have residual issues even though for them it is over 20 years since they were out. They just attended their local congregation - not any pseudo-leadership training to further ingrain it. For me it was good to see that other cult survivors had suffered similarly and I wasn't such a freak.
Like ExCath, I suffered profound depression after I got very viciously expelled (marked and avoided) and the idea of suicide briefly crossed my mind (but I though I'd be a failure at that, too....). As Corps and having taken a salt covenant, my sense of failure and my desperation were absolute.
Nervous breakdown? Mental illness? Perhaps, nothing diagnosed; I just know I wasn't functioning anywhere near properly. Knowing (via the Cafe) that others including Corps have been through the same stuff has been immensely healing. And every day gets better and I'm more thrillingly alive.
I hope your chat group / group therapy brings closure and release to the participants. And to you, too.
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Linda Z
Welcome, John!
Just to clarify, I wasn't in any way referring to your kind offer of help in my earlier post. As RG correctly stated, I was referring to the snide remarks/implications some people made about certain other posters' need for therapy. I feel the moderators were correct in deleting the names of the people at whom the snide remarks were directed.
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John M Knapp LMSW
:D
Too late! I went mental long ago!
J.
Thanks for the kind words, Twinky.
Like so most members of my profession, I got involved because because I had been touched by needs for help and have some family members who have needed help, too.
I always say I get as much or more from working with my clients as they do!
J.
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waysider
Will there be refreshments? :unsure:
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John M Knapp LMSW
Hi, LZ,
Thanks for your clarification. I think it's great the moderators are active in maintaining respectful communication. I know it's pretty hard here in the Wild Wild West -- er, I mean the Internet.
J.
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socks
Hi John. Have looked through your site and posts here, and just wanted to say how encouraging your approach is. I particularly noticed your effort to put visibility into how you charge - I think that's admirable. Very upfront, designed to accomodate, reasonable. I'm sure you could charge more.
A lot of how I view my time in the Way is based on the fact that I felt, by my own mind, self-directed. Yes, there's a "spiritual" component to that, as a Christian I feel that God has been involved in my life, my family's. Yet, I have always had a clear sense of "self", who I am. That's been defined to a great degree by my relationship with my wife, who I've known since I was a teenager, and been married to since I was 20. So that relationship and our own vision for ourselves has been part of my baseline for - well, my whole adult life, really. Everything else comes "into" that so to speak, influences yes but never takes control. That's kind of vague but I hope it makes sense.
I'm coming up on 38 years of marriage with my wife and one thing we both feel strongly about is the value of communication, being able to "just talk". Not having anyone to share with, be open and honest with is difficult for many people we've known. GS speaks to that I think, the open forum for just saying what's on a person's mind. I thnk it's part of the foundation for a healthy mental and emotional state.
Wanted to ask too - I'd be curious as to how you see the discussions that go on here - not asking for a judgment but just a read from you on the types of exchanges that occur on GS. Any suggestions, advice? What works, helps, etc. Your perspective?
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John M Knapp LMSW
Hi, socks,
Thanks for the kind words.
It sounds like you have a wonderful relationship with your wife! Are you saying that your relationship helped you get through recovery from TWI? I've notice people who have kept relations with family (and mates) open seem to recover more easily and smoothly.
There seem to be different kinds of exchanges. Some are casually social. Some are personally revealing. Some are more extreme, where two sides don't seem to understand each other -- and can even get hateful toward each other.
While not a truly "therapeutic" forum, I can readily see how many people get comfort and all the self-help they need here.
I respect the wide latitude allowed in speech here. I do imagine, however, that some people do get hurt.
J.
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socks
Hi John, thanks for the response. Yes, we're happy. :) I do benefit greatly from the gracious twist of life that brought her into mine.
I don't use the word "recovery" to describe my passage through these last many years. I understand it, and how it can apply however. For whatever reasons, I don't sense that I "recovered" from something. It seems like a long string of years and events lived that are still counting. Fortunately.
Although there were some negative influences through my own involvement with the Way, not many that stuck. All remembered, yes. There were actually quite a few good ones, odd though that may seem to some. I can only speak for myself, really and my family.
I view them as lessons learned, things I got through or past and eventually balanced into some level of understanding that works for me. Is that recovery? If so, I don't feel like it's an ongoing effort. What's done is done. This was all a long time ago, nearly 18 years but nothing ever seemed to be a deal breaker once we "left".
I'm a what you see is what you get kind of person. I don't believe that the past is ever completely "gone" though - in fact I think present-state and current existence is the compilation of everything that's completed up to that point. At any given point we are exactly who we've been. Period. I've often pondered why life is like that rather than a series of disconnected events that could be handled separately, but that would require an entire retooling of hmm, everything. Still, I can manually review and then respond to specific instances and events out of sequence, which I would describe as going to the recovery efforts and processes that we use or try to, when we do.
At this exact moment however I'm making the material I can recall at the next point of recognition, well, I am and a lot of other forces other than me. But at the next point I take a measurement I can only really directly perceive what is happening at that moment, and any others before in retrospect aren't negotiable. I may not even know exactly what they mean or how they stack up at that point, but they're viewable, "remembered".
An unchangeable past makes for an interesting present that's always fluid and in forward motion. Living in the moment successfully is difficult I find. So I try - "try" to use caution and care proceeding.
That's where my relationship figures in, I think, yes. That's a point of trust and familiarity that I can weigh in against. There's also a joined awareness, one that we share, together. So we're kind of joined at the mental hip so to speak. It does help, yes.
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John M Knapp LMSW
To all the great commenters and lurkers,
I thought I'd add another free self-support service I offer. At http://knappfamilycounseling.com/phpBB3/index.php I host a forum. It is specifically aimed at people looking for a therapeutically focused forum with other people who share their issues. It is NOT a replacement for this great forum.
It is not too active right now, but there are some good threads to read. It is open to all (for free). Check it out!
J.
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