Vic the grandson kicks off new waycorps program

[ljn698]

Ah, the campfire! The campfire, the campfire.

How much human history has been set in motion around the campfire? Wars. Love. Schemers. Plotters. Steelworkers. Cooks. Arsonists. People who love smoky wood.., Ah!

Ahhhh, yes. I can remember it now, as if it were yesterday. The summer school class of 1975 at Way HQ, sitting in The Way Woods around a roaring campfire, all eyes fixated upon the flames. Relaxing, relaxing, relaxing, upon our earthen seats. A time when all defenses were down -- a time when, after a busy day of school we would gather and sit (oh, no, S.I.T!) and wait for doctor to arrive upon his golf cart. Then we would sit and listen to him speak from his heart, into hearts that were helpless and open.

Ahhhh, yes. The tender times around campfires...

Makes me want to break out in song, it does!

25 years ago

they spoke out and

they broke out

of recession

and oppression

and together they toked

and they folked out

with guitars

around the BONFIRE

just singin' and clappin'

Man, what the hell happened?

Yes some were spell bound

some were hell bound

some they fell down

and some got back up

and fought back 'gainst the meltdown

and their kids were hippy chicks

all hypocrites

because fashon is smashing the true meaning of it.....

[skyrider]

Ah, the campfire! The campfire, the campfire.

How much human history has been set in motion around the campfire? Wars. Love. Schemers. Plotters. Steelworkers. Cooks. Arsonists. People who love smoky wood.., Ah!

Druids.....

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Not to mention burning at the stake heretics, witches, homosexuals, etc.

[sunballer15]

Ham, it would seem as if you know him personally. -or are these assumptions

based on pure speculation? Just curious..

[Ham]

Yes, I know him.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Welcome sunballer...pull up a stool at the counter, the coffee's hot.

[sunballer15]

Very well. Look forward to some good discussions!

[waysider]

Hi, sunballer15

Welcome to GSC.

Here is something from their site that describes their goals:

To Fearlessly Pursue an Understanding of these Principles:

1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.

2. Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others.

3. Physical training making your body, the "vehicle" of communication of the Word, as vital as possible.

4. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the Ministry.

5. Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need.

You may or may not recognize those as being the old Way Corps principles.

Speaking only for myself, I find principle #4 to be quite alarming, given what is now known about the true nature of "the law of believing". Equally alarming is the "material abundance" that was amassed originally by the efforts and sacrifices of the thousands of people who unwittingly participated in what amounted to a multi-level-marketing scheme.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ohn-juedes.html

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...god-needed.html

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=18902

It's also alarming to peek in on the dubious origins of PFAL, the class that started the whole ball rolling.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=277

edited for typos and clarity

Edited December 30, 2008 by waysider

[Ham]

I actually heard in the old organization.. "whadya need a retirement account for.. just trust in gawd.. da word's all you need.."

if (or when) the economy really tanks.. their fortune will have the same value as mine..

the bigwigs in that "organization" who can't fend for themselves.. will be out on the streets..

look what they did to the mrs.. and that was in GOOD times..

[Ham]

3. Physical training making your body, the "vehicle" of communication of the Word, as vital as possible.

I wonder if that includes a diet of beans and millet, five hours of sleep at night (at best) and suprise "fun runs" at 3AM..

and LOTS of chopping firewood, clearing land..

nobody is saying though. Leave me in the dark, and I can have a pretty good imagination.. unfortunately, it turns out to be correct most of the time..

[waysider]

I actually heard in the old organization.. "whadya need a retirement account for.. just trust in gawd.. da word's all you need.."

..

Oh, yeah, I heard the exact same thing. In fact, that might even be an exact quote of what I heard. (or pretty darn close) Even admitting you we're THINKING about retirement funds was seen as a sign of negative believing. Instead, you could be investing that money in a ministry that could do something worthwhile with it. You know, like buy Harleys, jets, hunting & fishing gear and trips-------

[Ham]

3. Physical training making your body, the "vehicle" of communication of the Word, as vital as possible.

more like.. "to inflict physical castigation so as to lower one's resistance to der verd as it hath notter been known since da first century.."

and always living on the "edge".. not knowing if arbitrarily, one will be sent packing..

sent on hazardous journeys.. hitchhiking across the country with only twenty bucks in your pocket, which one MUST bring back intact, and ON TIME.. and I BET they check the serial number on it..

putting absolutely UNQUALIFIED, reckless, arrogant FOOLS in charge of a situation which could potentially (and sometimes actually DID) have disastrous consequences to "God's People"..

that's what a system of little or no accountability produced once

I asked nice once.. more than once.

"What are you doing that is any bit different than what the parent organization did?"

"who are you accountable to, other than your own egotistical little selves.."

[leafytwiglet]

Soooo what makes Little VP the MOGFOT..... what he personally confronted the devil???... ohhhh wait that would have been CHRIST.

Oh he studied the bible ... and religious history at university???... Oh no that was a BUSINESS degree ...

Credentials...

Where are they I want to see them.

(why oh why was I not asking these questions when I first encountered der vey... Arghhhh!!!!!

:asdf:

[Ham]

I actually had some respect for him once..

once the family was out of der vey..

in the "real world".. actually having to get along with "normal" people..getting a degree from a real, legitimate university.. it looked like he and the family were moving on in life.. "getting over it".. then he hooks up with CFF.. and that in itself isn't the problem I think.. but I think for him and crowd, I don't think it went far enough- it didn't offer enough-enough unbridled control over people's lives.. not a big enough authoritarian position..

now he's hooked up with goons who pump his ego and are living off of his heritage and carefully chosen name..

I've gone from having respect for this individual to having an extreme urge to urinate on his heritage..

I guess an "elder" oughter not think such thoughts, ey?

I wish they'd give me reason to think something better..

Edited December 31, 2008 by Ham

[waysider]

Well, like I've said before, they might be perfectly nice people. I really don't know.

I guess I just don't understand why someone would want to bake a new cake using an old recipe that calls for ingredients which are known to be toxic. I mean, if you're baking cookies and the directions say"toss in some arsenic", does it not seem to be a cause for alarm?

[Ham]

Yeah.. nice people..

what I wonder is what they promised the kid that suckered him into this..

or maybe they just mentally beat the daylights out of him daily, "informing" him of his "destiny"..

I think every human being is otherwise normally "nice".. but like the tee shirt I once saw, "Instant a**h*le, just add alcohol"..

I'd rewrite it:

"instant monster, just add enough worship, and unbridled adulation.."

I think it's over and above any kind of "love bombing" any of us ever succumbed to..

and if one offers anything else.. he has no need for one..

[Ham]

I wonder how many reaming sessions they've had with the little sowers participants because they don't pay the mini mogster and company the "right" amount of RESPECT?

after all *he* "sacrificed" ( academic integrity, good sense and a possible profession for all this)

"get it right or we'll just send you all home.."

I can almost hear this junk at times..

if anyone knows any different, now's the time to speak up..

[leafytwiglet]

"get it right or we'll just send you all home.."

I can almost hear this junk at times..

if anyone knows any different, now's the time to speak up..

Snip

LOL I still hear stuff in my head sometimes from way back when,

I would hope they run things better but when you have them copying everything wholesale ... it is just a recipe for disaster and no way around it... alla arsenic included.

This so reminds me of ... all the stuff that I saw while in the ministry.

I wish I could go there and say what are you doing.... look at this listen to this

But I know they are fully engaged in trying to do something spiritual with their life.. do be doing something bigger just like we were. They will not hear it until they are older.

WE wanted to do a righteous walk with God. That is what they are trying to do..

[Ham]

actually.. I think the con was EASY. The kid did manage to graduate with a bachelors from a legitimate university..

likely he KNOWS how hard it is to actually EARN a degree.. I'm three credits away from a bachelor's in math, and I know how much work I had to put into it. Now.. if I'm going to really DO something with it.. like teach.. if I'm not content to tutor at some place like Sylvan or a local self-help education center, either I need a teaching degree, or I go into a master's program, and pray they'll let me be a professor's assistant.. my GRE score WILL open that door, I believe..

either way, it's going to be: HARD WORK.

So the kid has a choice.. what will it be.. some hard work, or supposed success OVERNIGHT? After all.. he can use his business knowledge to run a cult bizz.. get all the worship and adulation due only to God Almighty himself..

and the "participants" will hear how unworthy they are, how only *he* sacrificed for all this.. coulda run a fortune 500 company instead..

They will not hear it until they are older.

Sadly, those who ARE older in that group either won't hear, or can't hear..

I think it's a matter of, they don't really know how to do anything DIFFERENT.

[Ham]

Out of EVERY SINGLE professor I had here.. there is only one I'd consider an "idjit".. not for intellectual reasons- and even he didn't demand the respect due only to God himself..

Ten guys with freaking DOCTORATES in mathmatics.. they ALL had tenure, and not a single one.. expected the class to stand when their presence "graced" the room..

not a single one.. expected chairs strung and tables placed at precise mathmatical intervals..

not a single one.. required a lecturn, behind which was a glass of ice, and a bowl with mints, carefully broken into four pieces..

I wonder if the sowers stand for the little numbnuts..

[Ham]

on top of all this.. not ONE SINGLE professor claims power to ARBITRARILY dismiss students, or close the "program" so as to maintain "order"..

not a single one.

[leafytwiglet]

I agree ham and I thought I better add that when I said they I me4ant the young adults who are joining the Sowers Corps like program

THosae kids are the ones attempting to serve GOd

.

The leaders of SOWERS are just continuing the CON.

I hope I am wrong but I don't think so.

[JeffSjo]

On one level I feel for v2p2, if my grandfather had done the things that vp had done, I'm not sure how if I'd be able to handle it.

But as a minister IMO HE HAS TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT WITHOUT RESPECT OF PERSONS IMO.

Good grief, I haven't heard a single thing that even comes close to indicating that he is even in the right zip code as concerning his ability to handle his grandpa's legacy in the ministry. I guess on a personal level I feel sorry for him.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

But as a minister...

minister?...is that what he is?

[Ham]

Yeah.. it's what he thinks he is..

Edited January 1, 2009 by Ham