What is there left to say? I'll say this much: I miss the many great people I came to love those days long ago in the way. Yeah, I know plenty of jerks with power trips were there too. Still when my wife & I left the Way, we felt the loss one feels when you lose family.
I remember sobbing like a baby at our last meeting at Emporia. It was then, I knew what the gathering together was really all about...being with those we love without end.
True....drugging, rape, sexual and physical abuse, child abuse, destruction of families, broken hearts, manipulation, theft and death can tend to be a smidge on the negative side :(
Kind of tough to honestly discuss these activities in a positive light...sigh
Focusing on the negatives, both actual and imagined, prevents remembering and seeing the many positives.
This is the essence of free will: it's what we choose to DWELL ON, and to DWELL IN.
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever.
Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi.
Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi.
Very clever catch phrases, Mike.
They are all unsubstantiated claims based on personal opinion.
This is exactly the type of rhetoric that Wierwille mastered.
Take any one of these "claims" and verify it with documentation.
Focusing on the negatives, both actual and imagined, prevents remembering and seeing the many positives.
This is the essence of free will: it's what we choose to DWELL ON, and to DWELL IN.
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever.
Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi.
Outside the scriptures,yes I said scriptures,twi was a illusion,carefuly crafted illusion,So why not expose it for what it
was,and still is,If it seems to be negative,so be it.
positive and negative,just another sales gimmick twi used.
Carry on Mike,And may you always take the high road.
*Focusing on the negatives, both actual and imagined, prevents remembering and seeing the many positives*
I think that is a rediculous assumption, and sounds like simply an excuse to refuse to take into account all relevent factors in a situation, Mike.
*This is the essence of free will: it's what we choose to DWELL ON, and to DWELL IN
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever*
Truthfully? It sounds to me like nothing more than a pretty excuse to remain in complete denial, oblivious to the reality of a given situation,
*Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi*.
I think that is a very silly statement, but then I suppose necessary to salve ones conscience and block out the horror of reality.
Here`s a positive thought...God delivered us from that creepy mind numbing, life sucking, soul stealing, family destroying cult founded by a false profit who led tens of thousands of people away from God.
another positive....I humbly thank God for the deliverance from arrogance and the idolatry of twi doctrine, the application of principles and invocations of non existent laws, in the guise of a spiritual walk and life style.
and positive number three....in living through the horrors of cult life, one can much more appreciate the simplicity of God`s goodness. The blessings and accomplishments in our live are more savored and enjoyed.
See, contrary to the assertion... I CAN be *positive* on occasion....
I`ll throw in another for good measure..I am POSITIVE that I wish that I had never heard of twi or been under the influence of it`s evil doctrines :)
I believe you have totally missed the point here, White Dove.
Or was that your intent?
These are not factual matters, they are Mike's "opinions".
They are being stated here as though they offered some profound insight.
They are pure rhetoric being presented as "absolutes".
Same old cr@p VeePeePee is so well remembered for.
Consider this phrase:
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever.
Feel free to elaborate on why you consider that to be accurate.
I did not miss your point and I agree it was his opinion just as all the post before that were . I don't see where he represented it as anything but his opinion by the way. The thing is you seemed to skip all those other opinions that are not factual matters either, when it came to your request for documentation. It seems that they don't need any in your view. Now me I'm in favor of all claims being documented just not only the supposed Wierwille apologists ones
Focusing on the negatives, both actual and imagined, prevents remembering and seeing the many positives.
This is the essence of free will: it's what we choose to DWELL ON, and to DWELL IN.
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever.
Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi.
Sorry...I don't buy it. We were involved in a money making, people abusing cult...you can stick your head in the sand and "focus on the positives" all you want...but you are only fooling yourself. It's not the "good times" that were significant...it was the "behind the scenes abuse" that was rampantly taking place that hurt many many people. The "positives" that you refer to were the bait that sucked us into an abusive situation....and you suggest that we ingnore that reality of what they actually did to us?...are you mad?
Mike, it sounds like you are saying, as long as the bad stuff didn't happen to me or my family, then I can overlook anything.
My bet is, if rape or suicide had happened to you or someone in your family, your tune would be quite different, it would be so much harder to discount it or to just "get over it", and you might work a little harder to expose the corruption and make sure the same thing didn't happen to anyone else.
Here`s a positive thought...God delivered us from that creepy mind numbing, life sucking, soul stealing, family destroying cult founded by a false profit who led tens of thousands of people away from God.
another positive....I humbly thank God for the deliverance from arrogance and the idolatry of twi doctrine, the application of principles and invocations of non existent laws, in the guise of a spiritual walk and life style.
and positive number three....in living through the horrors of cult life, one can much more appreciate the simplicity of God`s goodness. The blessings and accomplishments in our live are more savored and enjoyed.
See, contrary to the assertion... I CAN be *positive* on occasion....
I`ll throw in another for good measure..I am POSITIVE that I wish that I had never heard of twi or been under the influence of it`s evil doctrines :)
The postings of many on these very pages are my documentation.
My opinion is accurate on these points, and it frightens you greatly, AS IT SHOULD!
Just think on this for a minute if you dare (or can): If I am right, THEN WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
You've painted yourselves into a corner, and you see no way out, so therefore I MUST be wrong.
You NEED me to be wrong or you're SUNK!
Mike
Please forgive me if this sounds rude.
Your one line catch phrases do not frighten me.
Why do you think they should?
They are simply catchy phrases that hold no real meaning.
Wierwille was famous for this very thing, using such phrases as "It's always the integrity of The Word that is at stake." and "It's The Word, The Word, and nothing but The Word."
What in blue blazes does that mean, anyway?
If there is some sort of hidden meaning in these phrases you have presented, please, by all means, take any ONE of them and explain why you think it is true. Just explain it in your own words without using PFAL as a reference.
VPW was a con artist, Mike, not a prophet or apostle or teacher or candlestick maker.
He stole BG's class and used it as a launching pad to establish a pyramid scheme that allowed him to acquire material wealth and power. He derived sadistic pleasure in controlling and manipulating people and abused and debased women for whatever reason may have been in that twisted mind of his. He was a hard-core, chronic drug addict who lived a life of self delusion. These are not simply my opinions, Mike, they are documented realities.
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Ham
The only thing I can say.. shame on the parents. Really..
yeah.. the times are "urgent"..
hard making a living driving a truck..
even harder making a decent living with just a bachellor's in history.. or even business.
If it were my kid who graduated maga cum laude, I'd be kicking his a** into grad school.. or at the very least STRONGLY encouraging it..
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frank123lol
Why drive a truck?When he can start a cult,get others to tithe to him,and live off of his name recognition.
All this is allegedly,what he plans,seems thier is some angry young men out there with some name recognition.
You want to run a bible school.Go get a degree in it,Oh I forgot ,he was called.
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Tzaia
The name is not all that recognizable. I think it's more along the lines of delusions of recognition.
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Keswas
What is there left to say? I'll say this much: I miss the many great people I came to love those days long ago in the way. Yeah, I know plenty of jerks with power trips were there too. Still when my wife & I left the Way, we felt the loss one feels when you lose family.
I remember sobbing like a baby at our last meeting at Emporia. It was then, I knew what the gathering together was really all about...being with those we love without end.
Call me sentimental.
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Mike
I agree Keswas.
The focus here is on the negative.
There were many positive people and many positive ideas GALORE!
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rascal
True....drugging, rape, sexual and physical abuse, child abuse, destruction of families, broken hearts, manipulation, theft and death can tend to be a smidge on the negative side :(
Kind of tough to honestly discuss these activities in a positive light...sigh
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waysider
The focus here is on exposing TWI for the multi-level marketing scheme that it was.
The negative aspect is incidental to the task.
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frank123lol
Hey mike ya can sign up and be "positive".
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Mike
Focusing on the negatives, both actual and imagined, prevents remembering and seeing the many positives.
This is the essence of free will: it's what we choose to DWELL ON, and to DWELL IN.
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever.
Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi.
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waysider
Very clever catch phrases, Mike.
They are all unsubstantiated claims based on personal opinion.
This is exactly the type of rhetoric that Wierwille mastered.
Take any one of these "claims" and verify it with documentation.
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frank123lol
Outside the scriptures,yes I said scriptures,twi was a illusion,carefuly crafted illusion,So why not expose it for what it
was,and still is,If it seems to be negative,so be it.
positive and negative,just another sales gimmick twi used.
Carry on Mike,And may you always take the high road.
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rascal
*Focusing on the negatives, both actual and imagined, prevents remembering and seeing the many positives*
I think that is a rediculous assumption, and sounds like simply an excuse to refuse to take into account all relevent factors in a situation, Mike.
*This is the essence of free will: it's what we choose to DWELL ON, and to DWELL IN
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever*
Truthfully? It sounds to me like nothing more than a pretty excuse to remain in complete denial, oblivious to the reality of a given situation,
*Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi*.
I think that is a very silly statement, but then I suppose necessary to salve ones conscience and block out the horror of reality.
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cheranne
for every negative replace that with three positives..hmmm i heard that somewhere,but TWI is
a huge NEGATIVE in itself lets replace THAT with thee POSITIVES,(like TRUTH)
I am choosing Father, Son and Holy Spirit(no lies in between) I don't care how NICE some people were
it was still a LIE.
Developed by a LIAR,who was so decevied and decietful he passed on to people(for a small price ofcouse
of 100 dollars that was in 1978) the contamination ,the infection,the germ,bacteria,the artificial bible
man made by him(hence "religon") as bait.
We bought it,took it poisoned us, made us sick spiritually SICK!
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rascal
Great idea OCW!
Here`s a positive thought...God delivered us from that creepy mind numbing, life sucking, soul stealing, family destroying cult founded by a false profit who led tens of thousands of people away from God.
another positive....I humbly thank God for the deliverance from arrogance and the idolatry of twi doctrine, the application of principles and invocations of non existent laws, in the guise of a spiritual walk and life style.
and positive number three....in living through the horrors of cult life, one can much more appreciate the simplicity of God`s goodness. The blessings and accomplishments in our live are more savored and enjoyed.
See, contrary to the assertion... I CAN be *positive* on occasion....
I`ll throw in another for good measure..I am POSITIVE that I wish that I had never heard of twi or been under the influence of it`s evil doctrines :)
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WhiteDove
Interesting thing that documentation...... it seems to be needed only in hand picked situations , otherwise "I said so" just works as well.
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waysider
I believe you have totally missed the point here, White Dove.
Or was that your intent?
These are not factual matters, they are Mike's "opinions".
They are being stated here as though they offered some profound insight.
They are pure rhetoric being presented as "absolutes".
Same old cr@p VeePeePee is so well remembered for.
Consider this phrase:
By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever.
Feel free to elaborate on why you consider that to be accurate.
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WhiteDove
I did not miss your point and I agree it was his opinion just as all the post before that were . I don't see where he represented it as anything but his opinion by the way. The thing is you seemed to skip all those other opinions that are not factual matters either, when it came to your request for documentation. It seems that they don't need any in your view. Now me I'm in favor of all claims being documented just not only the supposed Wierwille apologists ones
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GrouchoMarxJr
Sorry...I don't buy it. We were involved in a money making, people abusing cult...you can stick your head in the sand and "focus on the positives" all you want...but you are only fooling yourself. It's not the "good times" that were significant...it was the "behind the scenes abuse" that was rampantly taking place that hurt many many people. The "positives" that you refer to were the bait that sucked us into an abusive situation....and you suggest that we ingnore that reality of what they actually did to us?...are you mad?
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now I see
Mike, it sounds like you are saying, as long as the bad stuff didn't happen to me or my family, then I can overlook anything.
My bet is, if rape or suicide had happened to you or someone in your family, your tune would be quite different, it would be so much harder to discount it or to just "get over it", and you might work a little harder to expose the corruption and make sure the same thing didn't happen to anyone else.
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cheranne
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Mike
The postings of many on these very pages are my documentation.
My opinion is accurate on these points, and it frightens you greatly, AS IT SHOULD!
Just think on this for a minute if you dare (or can): If I am right, THEN WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
You've painted yourselves into a corner, and you see no way out, so therefore I MUST be wrong.
You NEED me to be wrong or you're SUNK!
Edited by MikeLink to comment
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waysider
Mike
Please forgive me if this sounds rude.
Your one line catch phrases do not frighten me.
Why do you think they should?
They are simply catchy phrases that hold no real meaning.
Wierwille was famous for this very thing, using such phrases as "It's always the integrity of The Word that is at stake." and "It's The Word, The Word, and nothing but The Word."
What in blue blazes does that mean, anyway?
If there is some sort of hidden meaning in these phrases you have presented, please, by all means, take any ONE of them and explain why you think it is true. Just explain it in your own words without using PFAL as a reference.
VPW was a con artist, Mike, not a prophet or apostle or teacher or candlestick maker.
He stole BG's class and used it as a launching pad to establish a pyramid scheme that allowed him to acquire material wealth and power. He derived sadistic pleasure in controlling and manipulating people and abused and debased women for whatever reason may have been in that twisted mind of his. He was a hard-core, chronic drug addict who lived a life of self delusion. These are not simply my opinions, Mike, they are documented realities.
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rascal
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frank123lol
I will only say Mike,God will make a way where there is no way.
If you are right,Then the Lord forgives,But what happens if it is only your point of view?
Greasespot is a multiple point of views,If you want it so black and white,go join young vics
new ministry,He claims the same thing you seem to say,Oh!you might have to follow a man.
Christ is the head of the body,not any one man,who claimed he had new light,when it has been seen here it really was someone elses work.
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