Is Space Exploration a real benefit or necessity?

[RumRunner]

Well stated - there is immense debate in the scientific community between expanding horizons (expensive and dangerous) and sustaining the planet as we know it. There are some valid debates on both sides. I submit that sustainability is paramount at this time and that we have plenty of robotics to do that (go look up the NASA EOS missions - I'm too lazy to post a link). With robotics no toilets, no water, no O2, no food - and we (as well as ESA) build them well. And before you flame me - I've done EOS or similar things for 30 years - please do not flame with someone's odd chart from never never land.

I personally would prefer more of a focus (in the scientific community) on what is now the recognized field of Sustainability, than on space exploration. But it's absolutely inevitable that mankind would be needing to expand the (actual physical) boundaries of what we know. And as soon as people were willing to IMAGINE exploring space, doing so became inevitable.

Edited August 26, 2008 by RumRunner

[RainbowsGirl]

Well, anything I was thinking or potentially implying can be found in the essence of what dooj added.

Yet, RG, it's quite obvious that before the most recent history of modern civilization it was difficult to even IMAGINE exploring space. So, to me it's understandable that no one writing down scriptures could have even seriously considered what's in Genesis to have included space exploration.

Rocky, That it was not apparent to them due to there Age and circumstances may also imply that GOD did realize that this would be

apparent to us now; and that it was written to establish GOD himself as the master scientist who has a purpose for not expounding upon life on other planets or galaxies. Maybe, He isn't

concerned because he says He will end the world in His way and time. Within the entire book of Revelation it is shown that the world is still livable unto the end when GOD has it

destroyed totally

Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by.

Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

I personally would prefer more of a focus (in the scientific community) on what is now the recognized field of Sustainability, than on space exploration. But it's absolutely inevitable that mankind would be needing to expand the (actual physical) boundaries of what we know. And as soon as people were willing to IMAGINE exploring space, doing so became inevitable.

Sustainability and Space exploration have benefits, no doubt!

To me, it seems that what C.S. Lewis did was to read scripture and use his imagination.

To some C.S. Lewis may be more impressive than GOD...not that I am saying He did think that or that anyone else thinks that but; I can use my imagination and still not put it above

GOD!

Can you IMAGINE how long Galileo must have took after gazing into the sky with telescopes, fighting with his own mind trying to avoid the realization that the earth is NOT center of

the universe? But at some point, he could NOT avoid the realization of what he was observing.

Change is difficult. For one person as well as for society. But it's in our genes to explore. Set a new horizon, and someone is going to find it necessary to explore beyond it.

]I am a Christan living in a predominately pluralistic society, not being a pluralist; hence, I have a bible based approach woven into my fabric. God does not change

and I won't by my own deliberate free will choice...I don't exclude GOD in any evaluations, who by the way put that nature to explore and learn, imagine and grow and innovate into our

genes

Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Not all change is Good, Just as not all

change is bad!

Edited August 26, 2008 by RainbowsGirl

[mstar1]

I dont know----I was ultra enthused back in the early 60's when i was watching astronauts taking off on the black and white TV----now a friend of mines son is working on the project that is determining if there was water on Mars millions of years ago---Its interesting but is so far removed from my everyday life-(water a million years ago on another planet?) and concerns -except of for the fact that he is working on it.

In one sense anything that helps in understanding the fabric of the universe is very good, incredibly interesting etc.. but

I wonder sometimes if the money and research could be better spent elsewhere or on more pressing and down to earth needs--like ending starvation or eradicating some disease or something

[RainbowsGirl]

I think the aliens are already here... they've just discovered a different dimension to travel (and live in)... a dimension that we are not quite aware of yet... Chariots of the Gods makes a lot more sense to me than a great number of books... maybe the only way that intellectually primitive man could explain these beings was to give them 'godlike' status? ..and they must have had wings or they couldn't have flown could they? ...and the bubbles they had around their heads to protect them from our atmosphere, when looked at reflected a circle at the top from the sun, a halo?

oh... they're here all right...

now, as to the space station? and NASA in general? ...it could probably be done a lot cheaper in the private sector ...and they're farming more of it out, at least according to the latest Penn & Teller segment...

It could be more cost efficient yes and given less priority!

Maybe this earlier thread is also of interest (touched on in this thread):

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=17835

Thank You Twinky Iwill try to read it tonight

[RainbowsGirl]

I dont know----I was ultra enthused back in the early 60's when i was watching astronauts taking off on the black and white TV----now a friend of mines son is working on the project that is determining if there was water on Mars millions of years ago---Its interesting but is so far removed from my everyday life-(water a million years ago on another planet?) and concerns -except of for the fact that he is working on it.

In one sense anything that helps in understanding the fabric of the universe is very good, incredibly interesting etc.. but

I wonder sometimes if the money and research could be better spent elsewhere or on more pressing and down to earth needs--like ending starvation or eradicating some disease or something

I do agree with You. Mstar I think our priorities and money can be better spend on at least the necessities first. I know very few

American households that can live beyond their means anymore...our personal debt is as much out of hand as our Countries debt is!!!!

Edited August 26, 2008 by RainbowsGirl

[Tom Strange]

Rummy, I may have missed it but what does EOS stand for?

Like Mstar and you and others... I wish we would spend more on sustainability of this planet, and we need to be careful with the robotics lest we end up like the future in the Terminator movies...

[RumRunner]

Earth Observing System - sorry I was just too lazy to post a link...http://eospso.gsfc.nasa.gov/ BTW I am not going to get into a debate over these issues - shutting down now others can post their politico-social-religious views

Rummy, I may have missed it but what does EOS stand for?

Like Mstar and you and others... I wish we would spend more on sustainability of this planet, and we need to be careful with the robotics lest we end up like the future in the Terminator movies...

Edited August 26, 2008 by RumRunner

[Mister P-Mosh]

I dont know----I was ultra enthused back in the early 60's when i was watching astronauts taking off on the black and white TV----now a friend of mines son is working on the project that is determining if there was water on Mars millions of years ago---Its interesting but is so far removed from my everyday life-(water a million years ago on another planet?) and concerns -except of for the fact that he is working on it.

In one sense anything that helps in understanding the fabric of the universe is very good, incredibly interesting etc.. but

I wonder sometimes if the money and research could be better spent elsewhere or on more pressing and down to earth needs--like ending starvation or eradicating some disease or something

You know, I don't think people are really seeing the true benefits of space exploration. I think that is why RumRunner seems to be a little flustered. We didn't just get Tang and neat-o pens from NASA. You can thank them for things like, oh, I don't know, every single weather satellite that we depend on to know what's going on with the weather...GPS satellites that help you not get lost when you're driving somewhere new, and help the police/firemen/ambulances find the best route to get to where they need to be to save lives. There have been advances in medical research, chemistry, and all sorts of other fields as a result of the work NASA has done. We don't just send them up there because it's cool. They are risking their lives and a lot of hard work is done.

The thing about scientific research is that you never completely know what the result will be. Sure, it may seem useless at first to determine whether or not there was water on Mars in the past. However, we don't know what could result out of that research. Perhaps to conduct that research, they had to create a new technology that can remotely sample soil for certain elements or chemicals. Perhaps the technology that went into building that device could also be used to test for radiation leaks in dumping grounds for nuclear waste, perhaps it could be used to have tiny roving robots go around Iraq and Afghanistan detecting IEDs based on chemicals released into the air, or perhaps it could even be used to develop a "robotic tongue" that can taste and record food quality, and be used to help fast food make consistently tasty products in a way that is even more precise than it is now and saves them millions of dollars a year, resulting in the prices at McDonalds dropping by $0.25 per burger and thousands of new jobs are created to build and maintain those robotic tongues. Who knows?

There is a lot of good that could come out of seemingly useless research. This is why it is important for us to push our knowledge to the extremes. The moment we stop learning, our brain atrophies. The quest for knowledge is part of life, and it improves the conditions of our lives in measurable ways. Space is a part of that, because we are pushing beyond our past limitations and the world is a better place because of it.

[RainbowsGirl]

You know, I don't think people are really seeing the true benefits of space exploration. I think that is why RumRunner seems to be a little flustered. We didn't just get Tang and neat-o pens from NASA. You can thank them for things like, oh, I don't know, every single weather satellite that we depend on to know what's going on with the weather...GPS satellites that help you not get lost when you're driving somewhere new, and help the police/firemen/ambulances find the best route to get to where they need to be to save lives. There have been advances in medical research, chemistry, and all sorts of other fields as a result of the work NASA has done. We don't just send them up there because it's cool. They are risking their lives and a lot of hard work is done.

The thing about scientific research is that you never completely know what the result will be. Sure, it may seem useless at first to determine whether or not there was water on Mars in the past. However, we don't know what could result out of that research. Perhaps to conduct that research, they had to create a new technology that can remotely sample soil for certain elements or chemicals. Perhaps the technology that went into building that device could also be used to test for radiation leaks in dumping grounds for nuclear waste, perhaps it could be used to have tiny roving robots go around Iraq and Afghanistan detecting IEDs based on chemicals released into the air, or perhaps it could even be used to develop a "robotic tongue" that can taste and record food quality, and be used to help fast food make consistently tasty products in a way that is even more precise than it is now and saves them millions of dollars a year, resulting in the prices at McDonalds dropping by $0.25 per burger and thousands of new jobs are created to build and maintain those robotic tongues. Who knows?

There is a lot of good that could come out of seemingly useless research. This is why it is important for us to push our knowledge to the extremes. The moment we stop learning, our brain atrophies. The quest for knowledge is part of life, and it improves the conditions of our lives in measurable ways. Space is a part of that, because we are pushing beyond our past limitations and the world is a better place because of it.

RumRunner and Mister P-Mosh - I agree with all the marvelous benefits You name, and I haven't called these useless or devalued them. I am asking that

our goals be re-evaluated and refocused regarding the most immediate and pressing priorities this country has. We have a lot of people who are bleeding to death financially under the

pressures and strain of this disastrously burdensome economy in our own country. Talking about sustaining the earth; What about sustaining people, some people are losing that battle

on a very up close and personal level...eventually we will be forced to save them in an even more costly way and not so wonderful way! Some of these need our immediate time and

attention. We are Trillions of dollars in debt and our "Beautiful house of glass" is ready to shatter... We cannot afford everything!!! IMO, The shatter will be in like manner as OT. Israel

did as we do not reverence and respect GOD. We hew out our own doctrines...religious, scientific...You name it we have it in every color, make or version!

Edited August 26, 2008 by RainbowsGirl

[RumRunner]

Well stated P-Mosh - only thing I disagree with is that I was not flustered - just didn't want to get into the usual debates that happen so often here. EOS (in one form or another) has been my scientific discipline for 3 decades.