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The Flat Earth Society


Brushstroke
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I think my faith in humanity dropped a few points when I saw this.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php

From their FAQ:

General / this forum

Q: "Is this site for real?"

A: This site is real. There are people who seriously believe the Earth is flat. However, there are also people on this site who do not.

Q: "Why do you guys believe the Earth is flat?"

A: Well, it looks that way up close. Also, Samuel Rowbotham et al. performed a variety of experiments over a period of several years that show it must be flat. They are all explained in his book, which is linked at the top of this article.

Government

Q: "Why do the all the world Governments say the Earth is round?"

A: A Conspiracy among world Governments claiming to have space programs has disseminated the lie to the other governments of the world, as well as to the media and the general public.

Q: "What about NASA? Don't they have photos to prove that the Earth is round?"

A: NASA is part of the conspiracy too. The photos are faked.

Q: "Why has no-one taken a photo of the Earth that proves it is flat?"

A: The government prevents people from getting close enough to the Ice Wall to take a picture.

Q: "How did NASA create these images with the computer technology available at the time?"

A: Since NASA did not send rockets into space, they instead spent the money on developing advanced computers and imaging software instead

PLEASE NOTE This means that pictures confirming the roundness or flatness of the Earth DO NOT IN THEMSELVES CONSTITUTE VALID PROOF

Q: "What is the motive behind this conspiracy?"

A: The motive is unknown although it is probably money

Q: "If you're not sure about the motive, why do you say there is a conspiracy?"

A: Well it's quite simple really; if the earth is in fact flat, then the governments must be lying when they say it isn't.

Q: "The government could not pull off the conspiracy successfully"

A: Actually, they could.

Q: "How are the world governments organized enough to carry out this conspiracy?"

A: They only appear to be disorganized to make the conspiracy seem implausible.

A2: Only a few governments (USA, former USSR, certain European countries) need to be involved. The rest readily accept the lie.

Q: Why hasn’t this site been shut down by the government?

A: Doing so would prove that the government is hiding something.

Q: No way could the government possibly guard the entire Ice Wall! It would take too many men! Millions of men!

A: Not really. You could do it with a few hundred and some basic equipment.

Q: Why is NASA’s space shuttle runway curved?

A: It was specially constructed by NASA to be so. After all NASA are at the heart of the conspiracy.

The Earth in space

Q: "What is the circumference and diameter of the Earth?"

A: "Circumference: 78225 miles, Diameter: 24,900 miles

Q: "What about the stars, sun and moon and other planets? Are they flat too? What are they made of?"

A: The sun and moon, each 32 miles in diameter, circle Earth at a height of 3000 miles at its equator, located midway between the North Pole and the ice wall. Each functions similar to a "spotlight," with the sun radiating "hot light," the moon "cold light." As they are spotlights, they only give light out over a certain are which explains why some parts of the Earth are dark when others are light. Their apparent rising and setting are caused by optical illusions.

Some controversy exists as to whether the Sun and Moon are spherical or flat.

In the "accelerating upwards" model, the stars, sun and moon are also accelerating upwards as a result of Universal Acceleration.

In some models, the stars are about as far as San Francisco is from Boston (3100 miles). Others claim them to be much further away.

Q: "Please explain sunrises/sunsets."

A: It's a perspective effect. Really, the sun is just getting farther away; it looks like it disappears because everything gets smaller and eventually disappears as it gets farther away.

Q: "Why are other celestial bodies round but not the Earth?"

A: Some models argue for flat planets as well as a Flat Earth. Those who believe in spherical bodies but a Flat Earth argue that the Earth is not one of the other planets. The Earth is special and unlike the other bodies in numerous ways.

Q: "What about satellites? How do they orbit the Earth?"

A: Since sustained spaceflight is not possible, satellites can't orbit the Earth. The signals we supposedly receive from them are either broadcast from towers or any number of possible pseudolites.

Q: "What's underneath the Earth?" aka "What's on the bottom?" aka "What's on the other side?"

A: This is unknown. Some believe it to be just rocks, others believe the Earth rests on the back of four elephants and a turtle.

Q: "What about gravity?"

A: The Earth is accelerating upwards at 1g (9.8m/s^2) along with every star, sun and moon in the universe. This produces the same effect as gravity.

Q: "Isn't this version of gravity flawed? Wouldn't planes/helicopters/paragliders crash into the Earth as the Earth rises up to them?"

A: No. By the same argument, we could ask why planes/helicopters/paragliders don't crash into the Earth as they accelerate down towards them. The reason that planes do not crash is that their wings produce lift, which, when the rate of acceleration upwards equals that of gravity's pull downwards, causes them to remain at a constant altitude.

The same thing happens if the Earth is moving up. The plane is accelerating upwards at the same rate as the Earth, which means the distance between them does not change. Therefore, the plane stays at the same height and does not crash.

Q: "Doesn't this mean we'd be traveling faster than the speed of light, which is impossible?"

A: The equations of Special Relativity prevent an object from accelerating to the speed of light. Due to this restriction, these equations prove that an object can accelerate at a constant rate forever, and never reach the speed of light. For an in depth explanation: Click here.

Q: "If the world was really flat, what would happen if you jump off the disc's edge?"

A: Depending on which FE model is correct, you would either enter an inertial reference frame, moving at a constant velocity in the direction the Earth was moving before you jumped with the Earth continuing acceleration upwards past you at a rate of 1g, so it would appear to you that you were falling into space,

OR

You would become directly affected by Universal Acceleration as the Earth is, creating the illusion that you were standing next to the Earth.

Q: "If the Earth was indeed a flat disc, wouldn't the whole planet crunch up into itself and eventually transform into a ball?"

A1: If the Earth generated a gravitational field, yes, it would eventually happen, after a billion years maybe. FE assumes that the Earth does not generate a gravitational field. What we know as 'gravity' is provided by the acceleration of the earth.

A2: There is a counter-mass which pulls the Earth back into a disc shape.

Q: "Why does gravity vary with altitude?"

A: Some models claim that the moon and stars have a slight gravitational pull, but other models hold that gravity does not exist anywhere in the Universe, thus gravitational variation is either a myth or caused by another phenomenom.

Q: Follow-up to previous question: How is it that the Earth does not have a gravitational pull, but stars and the moon do?

A: This argument is a non sequitur. You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?" Snakes are not dogs or cats. The Earth is not a star or the moon. It doesn't follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more.

ROFL!!! :biglaugh:

~Phil

Edited by Brushstroke
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Its easier to understand if you think about it as being these peoples' religion. Religious folks (even intelligent ones) will accept all kinds of absurdities (just look at the stories in the Old Testament) and rationalize them to their satisfaction. Right now we even have people posting on this forum that think the earth and all life here is only 6000 years old or some such and that it was all done in 6 days. There's no use arguing with these people I've found.

sudo

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Its easier to understand if you think about it as being these peoples' religion. Religious folks (even intelligent ones) will accept all kinds of absurdities (just look at the stories in the Old Testament) and rationalize them to their satisfaction. Right now we even have people posting on this forum that think the earth and all life here is only 6000 years old or some such and that it was all done in 6 days. There's no use arguing with these people I've found.

sudo

Arguing with them, at worst, would seem no worse than debating those true believers who have rejected the “dogma” of mainstream nutritional science to rally around the Atkins Diet.

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Its easier to understand if you think about it as being these peoples' religion. Religious folks (even intelligent ones) will accept all kinds of absurdities (just look at the stories in the Old Testament) and rationalize them to their satisfaction. Right now we even have people posting on this forum that think the earth and all life here is only 6000 years old or some such and that it was all done in 6 days. There's no use arguing with these people I've found.

sudo

You really can't compare the Old Testament with this Flat Earth Society. Concrete proof has been available to all that the earth is round. The only answer they have is that the proof was faked, with no proof of the fakery. In contrast, there is nothing in the Old Testament that can be so disproved. Neither creation nor evolution can be proved or disproved scientifically, as we can't observe what happened then, nor recreate what happened in a lab. It is a matter of interpreting the data. And there are even things in the OT that used to be considered implausible that archaeology and other sciences has since confirmed. There is no comparison.

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Mark,

Re:"You really can't compare the Old Testament with this Flat Earth Society."

Oh but I just did and I think its a pretty good comparison. You really think Noah floated on a boat a few thousand years ago and landed on some mountain in the middle East with every animal in the world? Are you serious? How did the animals then get dispersed to all the continents? Did the kangaroos just swim to Australia? Be serious Mark... its nonsense. If I'm offending your religious sensibilities I'm sorry (this isn't the Doctrinal forum) but you see my point.. Flat Earth Society? Its just another religion.

sudo

P.S. Cynic.. my whole point with the Atkins diet is proving what works scientifically. And more and more that is pointing to low carbs, IMO. However.. I accept WHOLEHEARTEDLY what is proven empirically. Naw.. I ain't accepting nothing "on faith" If the evidence says eat more possum then its gonna' be on my menu!!

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Mark,

Re:"You really can't compare the Old Testament with this Flat Earth Society."

Oh but I just did and I think its a pretty good comparison. You really think Noah floated on a boat a few thousand years ago and landed on some mountain in the middle East with every animal in the world? Are you serious? How did the animals then get dispersed to all the continents? Did the kangaroos just swim to Australia? Be serious Mark... its nonsense. If I'm offending your religious sensibilities I'm sorry (this isn't the Doctrinal forum) but you see my point.. Flat Earth Society? Its just another religion.

You don't point out anything that disproves the flood story. You only question and mock it because you start from the position of not believing in it.

To answer your points:

It doesn't say every animal in the world, just every kind.

The animals could have gotten to the other continents in many of the same ways which non-believers in the flood suggest - it doesn't disprove the flood.

You're not offending my religious sensibilities so much as making an inaccurate comparison. Concrete proof that establishes that the earth is round has been presented, yet the Flat Earth Society simply claims the proof was faked, and explains everything away with conspiracy theories. While I know there are a few who make similar claims trying to prove the Bible, serious scholars do not.

Think of this: If there was no flood, how did all those sea-animal fossils end up in the middle of continents, hundreds of miles from the sea? And also, how would one explain the fact that so many ancient cultures had legends of a worldwide flood with an individual being saved in an ark-like craft? Wouldn't that suggest that something like that happened? Studies have been done on the feasibility of the flood and the ark, and nothing that disproves it has been presented. All you're going on is that you don't believe it for whatever reason.

And the other reason it is an inaccurate comparison is simply the number of people who accept it. Not that that proves whether it's true or not, but a large portion of our society believes in the Old Testament, while very few would accept the flat earth idea.

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Mark,

I'm sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to mock your beliefs. The Old Testament is no more unbelievable than Scientology claims that aliens from outer space reside in us and need to be audited. My whole point was that Flat Earth Society folks have their reasons for believing what they do, too, no matter how ludicrous it seems to the rest of us. Its their religion and you get folks riled when you ridicule what they hold dear.

That doesn't mean I'd allow it to be taught in public schools, though.

sudo

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Sudo,

I'm not offended, I just wanted to set the record straight. A lot of people lump the Old Testament in with things like the Flat Earth Society or Scientology's beliefs about space aliens. But there is actually quite a bit of scientific validation for the Old Testament that many people don't even realize, and so don't have an answer when such comparisons are made. The fact is, I've found that it's not necessary to "check your brain at the door" in order to believe in the Bible, contrary to what often happened in the so-called "research" of TWI.

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  • 1 month later...

Mark,

Re:"A lot of people lump the Old Testament in with things like the Flat Earth Society or Scientology's beliefs about space aliens. But there is actually quite a bit of scientific validation for the Old Testament that many people don't even realize"

I suppose you are talking about the Creationist scientists maybe? Check out the Creationist museum I saw a poll that said that 60% of Americans believed that God created the world in six 24 hour days.

sudo

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But there is actually quite a bit of scientific validation for the Old Testament that many people don't even realize, and so don't have an answer when such comparisons are made. The fact is, I've found that it's not necessary to "check your brain at the door" in order to believe in the Bible, contrary to what often happened in the so-called "research" of TWI.

I would respectfully submit that such "validation" is only persuasive to those already firmly within the ranks of the "believer" contingent. To those of a slightly more skeptical bent, the "evidence" is pretty lame, and, like Monsieur Sudo, I don't find a lot of difference between religions and superstitions.

Religions - generally - have been around a long time and have garnered a certain degree of acceptability by simply being familiar. That, and having a belief in them constantly reinforced by family, friends and society in general gives them (religions) a credibility they'd be unable to foster were they required to stand on their own feet...

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I used to frequently hear the verse about "casting our sin as far as the East is from the West" being taught as *proof* that God was the author of The Word. The logic behind this was that if you look at a picture of a flat Earth, the East eventually meets the West. However, if you look at it on a globe, you see that they never meet. And, since people did not know the World was "round", but God did, it proved he was the author. It makes some sense by today's standards but who really knows what that phrase meant 1,000s of years ago?

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Brushstroke, I thought you were a smart and intelligent guy. Whatever are you doing hanging out with Flat Earthers? :biglaugh:

Or are you making some statement about TWI beliefs?

Very funny though. The Kennedy conspiracy theorists have nothing on these guys.

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"A: "Circumference: 78225 miles, Diameter: 24,900 miles"

This is where I almost fell out of my chair, yet the earth is flat? Its OK to have crazy beliefs but at least they can TRY to be consistent.

Sorry to muck up the old testament debate, very good points on all sides there.

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