I didn't admit to anything myself. Every time they asked me if I was "Twyril", I redirected by asking a pointed question about something the Trustees had done, or a topic in the WayAP class.
I started out on that tack... they started out by asking if I knew who "xxxx" was, and I said, "Should I?"
And then something in me just snapped and I thought, "They aren't worth keeping up the hoax. Who cares if they know or not? Why am I letting them control my actions like this?"
After that I said, "Yeah, that's me... so what?"
They said, "What gives you the right to be bad-mouthing your leadership and the ministry on the internet?"
To which I responded, "What gives my leadership the right to lie, cheat, steal, and hurt the body of Christ that they are supposed to be responsible for?"
Oakspear: This is what TWI turned into in the 90's and 00's. No thought of actually teaching or helping people, nothing but circling the wagons and throwing those who deviated from the company line out.
Adds new meaning to the phrase "Word Over the World".
After VP died, and POP was read, Martindale felt betrayed by those he thought supported him and it all turned inward. We said we were doing outreach and we went through the motions but all we really ever did was purge the household (over and over and over again) and we treated any newcomers the same way. (not exactly the way to keep folks coming back!)
I think Martindale was hoping to get the household SO clean he would never have to worry about getting stabbed in the back again. Poor thing... he'd already been stabbed in the back years previous by ol' Vic's lifestyle training. And once it became obvious that Craig would come between the BOT and their money, well, that was the end of Martindale, wasn't it?
Sorta reminds me of every lapel pinching finger poking bad breathed jerk-off I've ever met.
What gives you the right?
(note to self - carry a photo copy of the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution at all times in case these bozo's ever take over the country)
I'm still gurgling over the line "What gives you the right..."
I suspect Highway that the emphasis was on YOU. You, you of all people, what qualifies YOU, what makes YOU someone who feels YOU have the right to question the almighty righteousness of the ministry that saved YOUR life and bad mouth US when YOU have NO RIGHT to do so?????!!!???
And on "the right"....what RIGHT do YOU have to do such things? You have NO RIGHT to do that. NONE.
Yeah. Whew. That's good.
I guess they sure told you, hey?
Now - While I, socks, bring a certain panache and scinitillating insightfullness to any discussion, I will be the first to admit that I do comment from time to time on things that others would be better equipped to address. Still, I hope to add something, if only personal perspective.
But our right to do so is without question. The world looks to the ol' US of A to be the beacon of light that shines out the message "Rights Respected Here!". Well, we try anyway. Sometimes. Sorta. But the right to speak, ask and question is about as American as a Two for One Blue Light Special on Made-in-China Fip Flops. Except in WayWorld I guess where rights are negotiable and have an expiration date attached to them. Once you're in Shelby County, get your papers in order because you WILL be rights-challenged if you get mixed up with the Way.
Trouble is, those who DO have a more informed voice won't speak, won't talk, won't offer facts or perspective and have no approved platform to do so.
And those who DO have the platform, like Rico M., make claims and then don't stand behind them. Why, I would have quivered with excitement at the mere idea of being fully informed. Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about! A to Z, too. Then, shoot. They got in the soup, but must have run short on nuts. All outta nuts, and there must be a drought because they're still nutless. What can you do? No nuts. It would be wrong to insist on nuts when there are clearly, no nuts. Squeeze hard as you want, nothing. No nuts.
By the way - this isn't intended to be an advertisement but I'm working on a small written piece, I hesitate to call it a "book" but it might be book-like in the end. It's titled "The Three Most Important Questions in Life", sub titled "And The Three Answers". This is, in fact, no joke. I, socks, am in the process of writing it even now and have been working on it since last year. You reminded me of it, Highway. Those WayGB dudes were in my wheelhouse, as they say.
Today's Koolaide is that LCM is a far gone memory. They don't think about him anymore, and they've moved on. That sounds all fine and dandy except that there are MANY victims of his reign which were hurt. Families were torn apart and women were used, and that is to list only a few of the things. No form of counseling to help healing was done to my knowledge. The Koolaide drinkers are in the dark and "don't want to know" so they can still live the Verd (whatever the H that means.)
This is very true, except there are some of us who haven't drunk that koolaide and do think about the hurt that was caused by LCM and others who followed and mimiced him. I am what y'all call an "innie". But I'm not reallly either in or out. I'm just living. I've had to deal with my hurt outside of what they call the "household". The denial is huge. No one wants to talk about anything that happened back in 2000. I still want to talk about the hurt that people in TWI caused me in the 80's. I am just now recognizing some of the stuff that they were feeding me was not in my best interests.
On the other hand, there are still people who know what is going on, and choose to stay.
Can't speak for what Rico is doing now, as I have no ties at all to HQ and refuse to listen to STS, etc., but I was in the corps when he was the coordinator and pretty much the crap was hitting the fan, and he and Robin were always decent to me. They seemed very genuine at that time, but that was '95 when all of the crap was really starting to get thick. I think since then the dose of koolaid that they've taken in has made the "move on" program in their brain take root.
In fact, there is one thing ringing in my ears since the year 2000, and that is "move on". Almost every time I have addressed anything that happened in 2000 or before with any of my TWI friends, they have said, "why are you still bringing that up, it happened so long ago?" They all have seemed to forget that we were told that things would be resolved at some point.
This is very true, except there are some of us who haven't drunk that koolaide and do think about the hurt that was caused by LCM and others who followed and mimiced him. I am what y'all call an "innie". But I'm not reallly either in or out. I'm just living. I've had to deal with my hurt outside of what they call the "household". The denial is huge. No one wants to talk about anything that happened back in 2000. I still want to talk about the hurt that people in TWI caused me in the 80's. I am just now recognizing some of the stuff that they were feeding me was not in my best interests.
On the other hand, there are still people who know what is going on, and choose to stay.
Can't speak for what Rico is doing now, as I have no ties at all to HQ and refuse to listen to STS, etc., but I was in the corps when he was the coordinator and pretty much the crap was hitting the fan, and he and Robin were always decent to me. They seemed very genuine at that time, but that was '95 when all of the crap was really starting to get thick. I think since then the dose of koolaid that they've taken in has made the "move on" program in their brain take root.
In fact, there is one thing ringing in my ears since the year 2000, and that is "move on". Almost every time I have addressed anything that happened in 2000 or before with any of my TWI friends, they have said, "why are you still bringing that up, it happened so long ago?" They all have seemed to forget that we were told that things would be resolved at some point.
Well, some of us don't forget.
Sounds like peer pressure and 'that the ministry be not blamed' is alive and well. Has there been any change in leadership structure--or is it still a pyramid of obedience?
Think of the future--all those Waykids raised to obey without thought or question... and then one day a new meglomaniac arrives on the scene and claws their way to the top, full of boldness and aggression, which looks like leadership to TWI eyes...A NEW MOG!
I was in-rez with Rico and he was a delight... just a guy who was full of life and joy and enthusiasm for God back then.
Here's how I feel about him, I feel he is just a straight up filthy liar.
Interesting comparison. I only met Ricao a couple of times, and he was quite ingratiating. (But then, so were Vic and Loy, when they wanted to be).
I thought his wife was cute though.
Definitely have to agree here. I knew Robin when she lived in Houston. Bright (degree in biochemistry or biology, I forget which), easy on the eyes, and a sweetheart. Hard to figure out how she's stayed in Wayland so long.
I experienced the same thing as Oakspear and TheHighway. :) They went so far as to track down the source of a Pitney Bowes number to find out who I was.
I also asked about Craig and Donna's marriage after he left and she became Rosie's personal assistant. I was told it was none of my business.
I called Rico after I heard they donated to the Tsunami Relief fund and he was willing to speak with me until he found out I was not with the media.
We had the same three meetings. The first meeting was live and in person at the Moynihan's. The second two were at the same place and I know the third meeting was a phone hook-up, but I don't recall if there was a hook-up or tape at the second meeting. I do recall the first being a "rah rah" pep rally / snow job on how great TWI is and how unbelievable the pressure must have been for craig when the floor was opened for questions.
People who expressed doubt, anger and frustration at the following meetings usually disappeared soon after.
It was the lack of information that drove many of us to the internet. We knew there was more going on than they were letting us know. Sadly, that's still the only recourse for those still involved who want to know anything.
Funny how when one of the little people are kicked out, everybody has to hear them dragged through the mud, but when the big dog is booted, it's none of our business.
The night of the first announcement, a man from our fellowship walked out, disgusted after having seen various members of our fellowship unceremoniously tossed out and demonized for minor infractions, yet we were expected to forgive Martindale and move on.
I'm always stunned by the mentality of the goons that still inhabit WayWorld. Is it possible to shut down your curiousity - and even one's humanity - to that extent, that you unquestioningly harass and demean people - who maybe were even your friends at one time? I guess so.
It reminds me of all the SS officers in WWII. While they had the powerbase of a vital and virile Germany behind them, they were HOT CHIT - don't cross 'em or you'll pay the price! But once Germany was defeated, they were just a bunch of fat goons with stupid-looking hats and costumes on. Not quite so cocky then, huh?
Likewise with the Way-flavored version of a goonsquad. When WayWorld was still relatively vital and had a bit of clout, these guys could patrol around in their new fleet vehicles, wearing their earphones and radios, sunglasses, suits, nametags, and delude themselves into thinking that there "DA MAN". But NOW what do they do? They must keep a pretty low profile when not on their own turf, and - above all - keep the "don't think about it" mantra at the top of their subliminal "things to do" list.
One day though, they're gonna have to face up to the fact that they ARE just mindless goons with no powerbase even left. Maybe they won't have the stupid hats, but they'll look every bit as dopey as those SS troops sitting in the P.O.W. camp...
We were told that since it was all a pack of lies, told by a couple where the wife ran the household, who had made demands on twi leadership and didn't get their way and were now hatefully and vindictively looking for revenge, that we didn't need to know what the actual accusations were. We were told to STAY OFF the INTERNET!!
Stay off the Internet. You don't have enough spiritual perception and awareness (Way Corps) or ability to separate truth from error (PFAL), even though we supposedly taught them to you. We don't trust you to understand. So we have to spin it, er, explain it to you. And if you don't read anything else, you might just believe us.
-- Shaz
PS -- And don't get me started on that "wife ran the household" remark!
Here's how I feel about him, I feel he is just a straight up filthy liar. I thought his wife was cute though.
I think that's pretty typical of okie's appointees..
the *man* is kinda average, or of less average intelligence.. not a real "eye catcher" as far as ladies are concerned.. often a dumb brute who just happened to develop the fine skills of blindly obeying orders..
and the wife- above average intelligence and good looks..
or is that just a pattern I'm the only one who noticed?
ya know.. in *real life*.. I don't see how these goons could "bag" that quality of a wife..
And, as I guess has been mentioned before (and Mr. Ham seems to be intimating),
why do you 'spose Loyboy promoted those dimwits to positions of prominence? Could it be that Mr. Martindale was more smitten with the wife's physical attributes than with hubby's mental ones?
I think that's pretty typical of okie's appointees..
the *man* is kinda average, or of less average intelligence.. not a real "eye catcher" as far as ladies are concerned.. often a dumb brute who just happened to develop the fine skills of blindly obeying orders..
and the wife- above average intelligence and good looks..
or is that just a pattern I'm the only one who noticed?
I'm gonna fight you on this one, guys... Rico was a nice-looking guy and not in any way average or a "dumb brute". In fact, he was deeply thoughtful. And I think that's what got him in trouble. He convinced himself so thoroughly in the beginning that twi was right, that he's never gone back to re-examine new evidence that has come to light since then. He BECAME a dumb brute, but he certainly didn't start that way!! He was He was fun and people naturally gravitated toward him.
And Robin was nice looking, but very much a tomboy and certainly not what most people would call a "stunner". She was strong and stubborn and feisty. It took her a long time to decide to believe in twi and God at all, but once she did, she too was sold out. She was a very up-front person and told you exactly what she thought. I found it refreshing (if not a bit intimidating at times.)
Together, they could have been amazing and dynamic: his sensitivity and enthusiasm, her strength and focus. But, true to form, twi changed them both. Robin was made to conform to twi-leadership-wife standards (frumpy styles, bad hair, fake-looking makeup) and because of the level of lockbox-mentality expected of leadership, she lost her outgoing straight-forwardness. Rico became a frozen-smile hard-@$$ who will protect twi's best interests at any cost.
Funny how when one of the little people are kicked out, everybody has to hear them dragged through the mud, but when the big dog is booted, it's none of our business.
That's a point worth pondering. That did happen quite a bit, didn't it? I wonder if it still does?
Highway:
Rico became a frozen-smile hard-@$$ who will protect twi's best interests at any cost.
Your description of them is poignant to say the least Highway. It repaints Rico in a different light and brings another perspective to the discussion. It explains to some extent why he would have been a good choice for Public Relations Coordinator. He had, has good qualities.
I can relate somewhat to the thoughtful part. Thinking is good. I see in your post a great point - it's important to keep thinking.
It took her a long time to decide to believe in twi and God at all, but once she did, she too was sold out.
Again, learning "is an exciting adventure". At certain points in the adventure we draw and reach conclusions.
I've found - and this is just an obsevation, anecdotal - that the learning can continue, even in a confined context with restrictions like the Way promotes. Life's experience tends to authenticate "the truth" of life, even though we don't always recognize it immediately. But over time we tend to learn through doing, no matter who we are. We can deny it but the lessons do come our way regardless.
But - in the Way "headquarters" lifestyle of the "sold out" indiviiduals there's a pothole in the path. It's the repetitious pattern of doing things, over and over the same way, that they embrace. Down to every little detail, trying to control their actions and "believing" by controlling every little thing they do.
There's less challenges, less "new" input or exposure. By keeping everything out, there's less in to work with. So the authentication process that's natural and normal to life is stunted, artificial. Everything supports everything that's come before, with little to promote new learning, progress, advancement and what comes next. And in life, something's always around the next corner coming down the pike. It's the way it is.
People like Rico and Robin become, literally, what they look at, what they expose themelves to, embrace and validate day after day as we all do.
Bell: People who expressed doubt, anger and frustration at the following meetings usually disappeared soon after. It was the lack of information that drove many of us to the internet. We knew there was more going on than they were letting us know. Sadly, that's still the only recourse for those still involved who want to know anything.
Shaz: Stay off the Internet. You don't have enough spiritual perception and awareness (Way Corps) or ability to separate truth from error (PFAL), even though we supposedly taught them to you. We don't trust you to understand.
Even a moment's thought about that has to make a person go hmmmm....Lack of information, detail, difficulty "fitting in" and being accepted if you don't immediately salute and say "Yes Sir!", reprisals if you exert effort to locate additional information...
Because - how's come? As you noted Shaz, if everyone has the tools to do the job, why not let them go to work?
He BECAME a dumb brute, but he certainly didn't start that way!! He was He was fun and people naturally gravitated toward him.
Yeah.. I would agree a lot of people were intelligent and fun before whatever prescribed amount of whatever it was that loy required them to huff.
but still.. I think there is a pattern.. the last limb guy I met here.. he was.. well.. on intellectual par with a brick.. his wife however.. wowser.. intelligent, a real "looker"..
and the one before.. I understand some of the effects of whatever loy's concoction was wore off.. but he was (when I was in) a REAL, ignorant GOON.. and his wife, well.. same description applied.. intelligent, a real knockout..
the same pattern applies to the two or three limb guys before them..
even the married branch coordinators..
Now if Rico can stand there.. and "boldly proclaim to the world" that *they* fully inform the followers of EVERYTHING, peas to nutso.. and BELIEVES IT..
something has to be either deathly put to sleep, or missing..
Now if Rico can stand there.. and "boldly proclaim to the world" that *they* fully inform the followers of EVERYTHING, peas to nutso.. and BELIEVES IT..
something has to be either deathly put to sleep, or missing..
at least in my opinion.
:)
Actually, I totally agree...
The thing that I remember about Rico and Robin particularly is that they both were desperately seeking ANSWERS. Not that most of us weren't, but without going into personal histories here, these two wanted it more than many of us. As I posted earlier, once they decided they had found the source of all ANSWERS, they never looked back. So, I think the part that was "missing" is not intelligence but the strength to face their own fears and demons. TWI is their crutch and they've leaned on it so long, they don't know how to function without it.
Thanks Highway. That puts a needed perspective on the topic. What motivates a person, any of us? We all have our own needs, interests, desires. They had, have theirs. Strength is something that's difficult to require of another, methinks. In the past it's been so common in the Way to demand it. We often need help, support.
No doubt there's intelligence and design behind the path the Way's chosen on their "communications". Not sure who's, or how they came to the conclusion it's supports their claim though.
Ham: options. Indeed. It's difficult when the options are limited and the comfort zone is high, I guess. Change? As Dilbert sez: "Change is good. You go first". Not you specifically Ham, but overall, we hoomans are great followers. Our greatest successes seem to be by those out front, taking the new ground.
You're welcome, anotherDan. Lots of food for thought. Hope to have it end of this year, too!
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TheHighWay
I started out on that tack... they started out by asking if I knew who "xxxx" was, and I said, "Should I?"
And then something in me just snapped and I thought, "They aren't worth keeping up the hoax. Who cares if they know or not? Why am I letting them control my actions like this?"
After that I said, "Yeah, that's me... so what?"
They said, "What gives you the right to be bad-mouthing your leadership and the ministry on the internet?"
To which I responded, "What gives my leadership the right to lie, cheat, steal, and hurt the body of Christ that they are supposed to be responsible for?"
It kinda went downhill from there...
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TheHighWay
After VP died, and POP was read, Martindale felt betrayed by those he thought supported him and it all turned inward. We said we were doing outreach and we went through the motions but all we really ever did was purge the household (over and over and over again) and we treated any newcomers the same way. (not exactly the way to keep folks coming back!)
I think Martindale was hoping to get the household SO clean he would never have to worry about getting stabbed in the back again. Poor thing... he'd already been stabbed in the back years previous by ol' Vic's lifestyle training. And once it became obvious that Craig would come between the BOT and their money, well, that was the end of Martindale, wasn't it?
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socks
It kinda went downhill from there...
What gives you the right....??????
Oh yeah. Oh yes! Yes! Yeeeees!!!! That's good.
Sorta reminds me of every lapel pinching finger poking bad breathed jerk-off I've ever met.
What gives you the right?
(note to self - carry a photo copy of the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution at all times in case these bozo's ever take over the country)
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socks
I'm still gurgling over the line "What gives you the right..."
I suspect Highway that the emphasis was on YOU. You, you of all people, what qualifies YOU, what makes YOU someone who feels YOU have the right to question the almighty righteousness of the ministry that saved YOUR life and bad mouth US when YOU have NO RIGHT to do so?????!!!???
And on "the right"....what RIGHT do YOU have to do such things? You have NO RIGHT to do that. NONE.
Yeah. Whew. That's good.
I guess they sure told you, hey?
Now - While I, socks, bring a certain panache and scinitillating insightfullness to any discussion, I will be the first to admit that I do comment from time to time on things that others would be better equipped to address. Still, I hope to add something, if only personal perspective.
But our right to do so is without question. The world looks to the ol' US of A to be the beacon of light that shines out the message "Rights Respected Here!". Well, we try anyway. Sometimes. Sorta. But the right to speak, ask and question is about as American as a Two for One Blue Light Special on Made-in-China Fip Flops. Except in WayWorld I guess where rights are negotiable and have an expiration date attached to them. Once you're in Shelby County, get your papers in order because you WILL be rights-challenged if you get mixed up with the Way.
Trouble is, those who DO have a more informed voice won't speak, won't talk, won't offer facts or perspective and have no approved platform to do so.
And those who DO have the platform, like Rico M., make claims and then don't stand behind them. Why, I would have quivered with excitement at the mere idea of being fully informed. Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about! A to Z, too. Then, shoot. They got in the soup, but must have run short on nuts. All outta nuts, and there must be a drought because they're still nutless. What can you do? No nuts. It would be wrong to insist on nuts when there are clearly, no nuts. Squeeze hard as you want, nothing. No nuts.
By the way - this isn't intended to be an advertisement but I'm working on a small written piece, I hesitate to call it a "book" but it might be book-like in the end. It's titled "The Three Most Important Questions in Life", sub titled "And The Three Answers". This is, in fact, no joke. I, socks, am in the process of writing it even now and have been working on it since last year. You reminded me of it, Highway. Those WayGB dudes were in my wheelhouse, as they say.
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Livinlarge
This is very true, except there are some of us who haven't drunk that koolaide and do think about the hurt that was caused by LCM and others who followed and mimiced him. I am what y'all call an "innie". But I'm not reallly either in or out. I'm just living. I've had to deal with my hurt outside of what they call the "household". The denial is huge. No one wants to talk about anything that happened back in 2000. I still want to talk about the hurt that people in TWI caused me in the 80's. I am just now recognizing some of the stuff that they were feeding me was not in my best interests.
On the other hand, there are still people who know what is going on, and choose to stay.
Can't speak for what Rico is doing now, as I have no ties at all to HQ and refuse to listen to STS, etc., but I was in the corps when he was the coordinator and pretty much the crap was hitting the fan, and he and Robin were always decent to me. They seemed very genuine at that time, but that was '95 when all of the crap was really starting to get thick. I think since then the dose of koolaid that they've taken in has made the "move on" program in their brain take root.
In fact, there is one thing ringing in my ears since the year 2000, and that is "move on". Almost every time I have addressed anything that happened in 2000 or before with any of my TWI friends, they have said, "why are you still bringing that up, it happened so long ago?" They all have seemed to forget that we were told that things would be resolved at some point.
Well, some of us don't forget.
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TheHighWay
Thank you for your post, Livinlarge!!!!
VERY enlightening, indeed.
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Bramble
Sounds like peer pressure and 'that the ministry be not blamed' is alive and well. Has there been any change in leadership structure--or is it still a pyramid of obedience?
Think of the future--all those Waykids raised to obey without thought or question... and then one day a new meglomaniac arrives on the scene and claws their way to the top, full of boldness and aggression, which looks like leadership to TWI eyes...A NEW MOG!
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GeorgeStGeorge
Interesting comparison. I only met Ricao a couple of times, and he was quite ingratiating. (But then, so were Vic and Loy, when they wanted to be).
Definitely have to agree here. I knew Robin when she lived in Houston. Bright (degree in biochemistry or biology, I forget which), easy on the eyes, and a sweetheart. Hard to figure out how she's stayed in Wayland so long.
George
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Belle
I experienced the same thing as Oakspear and TheHighway. :) They went so far as to track down the source of a Pitney Bowes number to find out who I was.
I also asked about Craig and Donna's marriage after he left and she became Rosie's personal assistant. I was told it was none of my business.
I called Rico after I heard they donated to the Tsunami Relief fund and he was willing to speak with me until he found out I was not with the media.
We had the same three meetings. The first meeting was live and in person at the Moynihan's. The second two were at the same place and I know the third meeting was a phone hook-up, but I don't recall if there was a hook-up or tape at the second meeting. I do recall the first being a "rah rah" pep rally / snow job on how great TWI is and how unbelievable the pressure must have been for craig when the floor was opened for questions.
People who expressed doubt, anger and frustration at the following meetings usually disappeared soon after.
It was the lack of information that drove many of us to the internet. We knew there was more going on than they were letting us know. Sadly, that's still the only recourse for those still involved who want to know anything.
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Oakspear
Funny how when one of the little people are kicked out, everybody has to hear them dragged through the mud, but when the big dog is booted, it's none of our business.
The night of the first announcement, a man from our fellowship walked out, disgusted after having seen various members of our fellowship unceremoniously tossed out and demonized for minor infractions, yet we were expected to forgive Martindale and move on.
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George Aar
I'm always stunned by the mentality of the goons that still inhabit WayWorld. Is it possible to shut down your curiousity - and even one's humanity - to that extent, that you unquestioningly harass and demean people - who maybe were even your friends at one time? I guess so.
It reminds me of all the SS officers in WWII. While they had the powerbase of a vital and virile Germany behind them, they were HOT CHIT - don't cross 'em or you'll pay the price! But once Germany was defeated, they were just a bunch of fat goons with stupid-looking hats and costumes on. Not quite so cocky then, huh?
Likewise with the Way-flavored version of a goonsquad. When WayWorld was still relatively vital and had a bit of clout, these guys could patrol around in their new fleet vehicles, wearing their earphones and radios, sunglasses, suits, nametags, and delude themselves into thinking that there "DA MAN". But NOW what do they do? They must keep a pretty low profile when not on their own turf, and - above all - keep the "don't think about it" mantra at the top of their subliminal "things to do" list.
One day though, they're gonna have to face up to the fact that they ARE just mindless goons with no powerbase even left. Maybe they won't have the stupid hats, but they'll look every bit as dopey as those SS troops sitting in the P.O.W. camp...
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waysider
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shazdancer
The disrespect of this hit me,
Stay off the Internet. You don't have enough spiritual perception and awareness (Way Corps) or ability to separate truth from error (PFAL), even though we supposedly taught them to you. We don't trust you to understand. So we have to spin it, er, explain it to you. And if you don't read anything else, you might just believe us.
-- Shaz
PS -- And don't get me started on that "wife ran the household" remark!
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Ham
from Seth..
I think that's pretty typical of okie's appointees..
the *man* is kinda average, or of less average intelligence.. not a real "eye catcher" as far as ladies are concerned.. often a dumb brute who just happened to develop the fine skills of blindly obeying orders..
and the wife- above average intelligence and good looks..
or is that just a pattern I'm the only one who noticed?
ya know.. in *real life*.. I don't see how these goons could "bag" that quality of a wife..
it just doesn't seem "natural" or anything..
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George Aar
And, as I guess has been mentioned before (and Mr. Ham seems to be intimating),
why do you 'spose Loyboy promoted those dimwits to positions of prominence? Could it be that Mr. Martindale was more smitten with the wife's physical attributes than with hubby's mental ones?
Ya think?
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TheHighWay
I'm gonna fight you on this one, guys... Rico was a nice-looking guy and not in any way average or a "dumb brute". In fact, he was deeply thoughtful. And I think that's what got him in trouble. He convinced himself so thoroughly in the beginning that twi was right, that he's never gone back to re-examine new evidence that has come to light since then. He BECAME a dumb brute, but he certainly didn't start that way!! He was He was fun and people naturally gravitated toward him.
And Robin was nice looking, but very much a tomboy and certainly not what most people would call a "stunner". She was strong and stubborn and feisty. It took her a long time to decide to believe in twi and God at all, but once she did, she too was sold out. She was a very up-front person and told you exactly what she thought. I found it refreshing (if not a bit intimidating at times.)
Together, they could have been amazing and dynamic: his sensitivity and enthusiasm, her strength and focus. But, true to form, twi changed them both. Robin was made to conform to twi-leadership-wife standards (frumpy styles, bad hair, fake-looking makeup) and because of the level of lockbox-mentality expected of leadership, she lost her outgoing straight-forwardness. Rico became a frozen-smile hard-@$$ who will protect twi's best interests at any cost.
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socks
Happy Sunday! Eye-catching input.
Oaks:
Funny how when one of the little people are kicked out, everybody has to hear them dragged through the mud, but when the big dog is booted, it's none of our business.
That's a point worth pondering. That did happen quite a bit, didn't it? I wonder if it still does?
Highway:
Rico became a frozen-smile hard-@$$ who will protect twi's best interests at any cost.
Your description of them is poignant to say the least Highway. It repaints Rico in a different light and brings another perspective to the discussion. It explains to some extent why he would have been a good choice for Public Relations Coordinator. He had, has good qualities.
I can relate somewhat to the thoughtful part. Thinking is good. I see in your post a great point - it's important to keep thinking.
It took her a long time to decide to believe in twi and God at all, but once she did, she too was sold out.
Again, learning "is an exciting adventure". At certain points in the adventure we draw and reach conclusions.
I've found - and this is just an obsevation, anecdotal - that the learning can continue, even in a confined context with restrictions like the Way promotes. Life's experience tends to authenticate "the truth" of life, even though we don't always recognize it immediately. But over time we tend to learn through doing, no matter who we are. We can deny it but the lessons do come our way regardless.
But - in the Way "headquarters" lifestyle of the "sold out" indiviiduals there's a pothole in the path. It's the repetitious pattern of doing things, over and over the same way, that they embrace. Down to every little detail, trying to control their actions and "believing" by controlling every little thing they do.
There's less challenges, less "new" input or exposure. By keeping everything out, there's less in to work with. So the authentication process that's natural and normal to life is stunted, artificial. Everything supports everything that's come before, with little to promote new learning, progress, advancement and what comes next. And in life, something's always around the next corner coming down the pike. It's the way it is.
People like Rico and Robin become, literally, what they look at, what they expose themelves to, embrace and validate day after day as we all do.
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socks
Bell: People who expressed doubt, anger and frustration at the following meetings usually disappeared soon after. It was the lack of information that drove many of us to the internet. We knew there was more going on than they were letting us know. Sadly, that's still the only recourse for those still involved who want to know anything.
Shaz: Stay off the Internet. You don't have enough spiritual perception and awareness (Way Corps) or ability to separate truth from error (PFAL), even though we supposedly taught them to you. We don't trust you to understand.
Even a moment's thought about that has to make a person go hmmmm....Lack of information, detail, difficulty "fitting in" and being accepted if you don't immediately salute and say "Yes Sir!", reprisals if you exert effort to locate additional information...
Because - how's come? As you noted Shaz, if everyone has the tools to do the job, why not let them go to work?
Could it be ... The "F" word - "FEAR"?
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Ham
Yeah.. I would agree a lot of people were intelligent and fun before whatever prescribed amount of whatever it was that loy required them to huff.
but still.. I think there is a pattern.. the last limb guy I met here.. he was.. well.. on intellectual par with a brick.. his wife however.. wowser.. intelligent, a real "looker"..
and the one before.. I understand some of the effects of whatever loy's concoction was wore off.. but he was (when I was in) a REAL, ignorant GOON.. and his wife, well.. same description applied.. intelligent, a real knockout..
the same pattern applies to the two or three limb guys before them..
even the married branch coordinators..
Now if Rico can stand there.. and "boldly proclaim to the world" that *they* fully inform the followers of EVERYTHING, peas to nutso.. and BELIEVES IT..
something has to be either deathly put to sleep, or missing..
at least in my opinion.
:)
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Ham
too bad their options are so limited..
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polar bear
I'll agree they are nuts, so I'll take the soup!
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TheHighWay
Actually, I totally agree...
The thing that I remember about Rico and Robin particularly is that they both were desperately seeking ANSWERS. Not that most of us weren't, but without going into personal histories here, these two wanted it more than many of us. As I posted earlier, once they decided they had found the source of all ANSWERS, they never looked back. So, I think the part that was "missing" is not intelligence but the strength to face their own fears and demons. TWI is their crutch and they've leaned on it so long, they don't know how to function without it.
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anotherDan
Lots of perspective on this thread.... Socks, thanks for starting and tending it. I'll be looking for that book-like thing!
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socks
Thanks Highway. That puts a needed perspective on the topic. What motivates a person, any of us? We all have our own needs, interests, desires. They had, have theirs. Strength is something that's difficult to require of another, methinks. In the past it's been so common in the Way to demand it. We often need help, support.
No doubt there's intelligence and design behind the path the Way's chosen on their "communications". Not sure who's, or how they came to the conclusion it's supports their claim though.
Ham: options. Indeed. It's difficult when the options are limited and the comfort zone is high, I guess. Change? As Dilbert sez: "Change is good. You go first".
Not you specifically Ham, but overall, we hoomans are great followers. Our greatest successes seem to be by those out front, taking the new ground.
You're welcome, anotherDan. Lots of food for thought. Hope to have it end of this year, too!
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