Does it seem to anybody else like we were systematically distanced from Jesus, the true shepherd?
Does it seem like to anybody else that studying, witnessing, tithing, participation in programs, obedience to men of God, replaced the walk of the spirit?
That scripture memorized, classes run, programs completed became the measure of ones spirituality, rather than fruit of the spirit?
Formulas, and principles, replaced our walk of the spirit.
The way they pulled off the "standing in the gap" teaching was by diminishing Him to be just a man. Once that was done and the"absent Christ" teaching took place, they as MEN could take His place and assume all sorts of power and control over others.
Jesus needs no one to take his place-if he did God would have given Adam that job.
The Bible is not about us and our "powers" but about our need for redemption- not to "learn principles" in order to live victoriously or abundantly
The greatest abuse in TWI and other cults is deny who Jesus really is- say He is a "person" who had a job that is now relegated to us.
The way they pulled off the "standing in the gap" teaching was by diminishing Him to be just a man. Once that was done and the"absent Christ" teaching took place, they as MEN could take His place and assume all sorts of power and control over others.
Jesus needs no one to take his place-if he did God would have given Adam that job.
The Bible is not about us and our "powers" but about our need for redemption- not to "learn principles" in order to live victoriously or abundantly
The greatest abuse in TWI and other cults is deny who Jesus really is- say He is a "person" who had a job that is now relegated to us.
Look at the Moonies-same thing.
Yeah, I see what you are saying, Spoudazo but what I really want to understand is what sort of specific activities did VP and LCM consider "standing in the gap"?
I mean, did they think trying to operate the magic "law" of believing defined it?
Did they involve themselves in some sort of fasting or prayer vigil?
What physical or mental activities would be considered "standing in the gap"?
If you disregard the Jesus connection for a moment, it really appears that this was just another silly catch phrase that had no real meaning (Like "It's The Word, The Word, and nothing but The Word!".)
Yeah, I see what you are saying, Spoudazo but what I really want to understand is what sort of specific activities did VP and LCM consider "standing in the gap"?
I mean, did they think trying to operate the magic "law" of believing defined it?
Did they involve themselves in some sort of fasting or prayer vigil?
What physical or mental activities would be considered "standing in the gap"?
If you disregard the Jesus connection for a moment, it really appears that this was just another silly catch phrase that had no real meaning (Like "It's The Word, The Word, and nothing but The Word!".)
I think we now understand what kind of "activities" they were "standing in the gap" with. "Sexual healing" does not qualify as tending the flock. Not in any sane mind.
You are correct. "Standing in the gap" is just as nonbiblical and heinous as "lockbox" or "Believing images of Victory"
Good points, Rascal and others. It was true for me, that the lordship of Jesus Christ was minimalized and marginalized, and like you, I have a much deeper appreciation not only for how he once stood in the gap for me and for the whole world, but also his current role as "head" and Lord.
That said, I believe that we as Christians are his body, and in whatever ways are set before us, believers should be acting "in Christ's stead." This is quite different from the erroneous "absent Christ" doctrine. We act on his behalf, according to his teachings and commands. This may indeed take the form of prayer or other ways of "standing in the gap." It may mean sacrifice in some form.
Christians use the term Standing in the Gap--in regard to prayer and other things like Dan said.
Seems VP had been standing in the gap for years in some sacrifical way--as his deformity would no longer allow him to do this. I don't get it? He just kinda remembered Jesus was the sacrifice and he was covered?
What kind of pain meds was he on? Does anyone know?
After reading your Great posts Rascal, Spoudaso, Waysider and Dan, I can only add this:
God superseded this practiced doctrinal error/errors propounded or misused by TWI and interceded to protect us while we were deluded to every extent He could.
I say that because GOD saved and healed my sorry a&& and the sorry a&&e& of many I knew and knew of, many a time through His grace and mercy and the sincere and genuine
prayers of the body of Christ.
All will be held accountable for what they taught/teach...How they either represented' or misrepresented GOD's Word and Will; and thus brought, confusion and instability of doctrine to
the church...whom Christ is head!!!
1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Ti 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
I imagine that works conversely as well!!! Fortunately, we did have some teachers in the body who are worthy of of honor
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.
Most of our leadership were seduced by false doctrines and became very weak and very unstable.!!! GOD probably has this no doubt sorted out in a very just way
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 22:6 ¶ And he said unto me, These sayings [are] faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 ¶ And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:18 ¶ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
GOD does not want His word added too or subtracted from
Rev 22:20 ¶ He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
We are waiting
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
Ezekiel 22:30; I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so that I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.
The whole chapter deals with Israel's condition at the time, and is a scathing reproof of the morals, ethics and conduct of the nation, it's leaders both governmental and religious, and the people, the social order of the day if you will.
TWI taught Jesus Christ as "bridging the gap", a Christian view of redemption that's fairly common - man separated from God, Jesus Christ the means of joining the two, a bridge of sorts.
Which He is, although that statement alone doesn't fully express redemption realized and accepted - the image of a bridge is of a means of access, transport - and Jesus Christ would be in the same way a Shepherd would be with a flock, caring for them. The end result for a follower of Jesus Christ is "pasture" for eternity, with God. So to my mind, the "bridge/gap" idea is a piece but not the whole. Big piece, but the bridge goes somewhere.
Standing in the gap, think I first heard it taught in TWI based on the record in Ezekiel. Wall, the "hedge", that deal about "hedge of protection" figures in. Someone to do the rebuilding and take the place of a "stand" for God, for His instructions, people, way of life, etc.
The aspect of service is foundation to that. If a society is far off the track of God's way of doing things - Ezekiel describes a national condition that's not that hard to picture unfortunately - a great deal of work needs to be done. In this day as then, on all levels.
Under those circumstances there would certainly be some who wouldn't agree or want that kind of change, however, reading Ezekiel, I can see that there would be large part of the population who would benefit and would likely embrace and support that kind of change, it would be seen in political, social, religious, economic, all kinds of stuff.
I guess you're making me think rascal, back in the day, my idea of that "stand in the gap" seemed to be something that had both immediate and local implications as well as much larger, broader ones. I can't really trace how it evolved, or what it evolved into specifically. The blur between standing, bridging, skiing, doing the backstroke, "in the gap", dunno.
It probably came down to basic Christianity 101 - there's a personal individual focus as well as a group, "body" focus. Everyone needs help, and all members have their place. As you point out, Christ has his and it can't be superceded, attempting to do so frustrates the process that's been put in place. I would suppose today to "stand in the gap" would have to be based on a legitimate recognition of Christ's function with the church and a careful considered effort to support a commonly held view of a "successful" one, that gives "glory" to God.
She pointed out how that contrary to the assertion of the mogs claimed to stand in the gap for us....Jesus Christ was the one who`s job it was, and who acrtually accomplished it at great cost.... to stand in the gap for the flock.
One observation.. assuming that he DID "stand in the gap" for the flock.. it would seem that der vey put up for sale that which the flock already had to begin with.
seems they were masters at manufacturing "problems" people never had to begin with..
Ezekiel 22:30; I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so that I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.
Thanks for posting the verse, Socks. Yes, prayer for the believers putting a hedge of protection around them so the adversary can't get in to harm them.
Perty sure that's JC's job as stated by several astute posters.
... what I really want to understand is what sort of specific activities did VP and LCM consider "standing in the gap"?
I mean, did they think trying to operate the magic "law" of believing defined it?
Did they involve themselves in some sort of fasting or prayer vigil?
You are joking, right? Fasting? Prayer???
What physical or mental activities would be considered "standing in the gap"?
Perhaps keeping vigil in the motorcoach?
seems they were masters at manufacturing "problems" people never had to begin with..
They sure were. Undercut, threaten, demoralize, bully (especially capable people and women), belittle common sense - and then have the bullied woman's husband or the TC or BC claim to be "standing in the gap" for them to protect them. It's just a way of demonstrating control.
...With all due respect to those with noble visions of being a "Christian soldier", standing for God's people...I think that twi used this phrase to lather people up with bull sh *t. Standing in the gap?...I think this phrase evokes thoughts of noble action taken selflessly for the benefit of others...HA HA HA HA HA!
Nothing could be further from the truth. These scoundrals did not stand in the gap, they stood on our shoulders in order to elevate themselves...and then used that phrase for the purpose of promoting their own self importance. In hindsight, it was pretty pathetic.
...and yes, I believe that twi led people away from knowing Christ.
Thanks for posting the verse, Socks. Yes, prayer for the believers putting a hedge of protection around them so the adversary can't get in to harm them.
Perty sure that's JC's job
Hmmm. Right - I didn't state that Ezekiel means, today, to pray for believers to put a hedge of protection around them, as a protective measure against harm from the adversary, but there was a lot of that in TWI's intepretation of that verse.
In this life, I believe there's an opportunity to help one another, in the right context and for the right reasons - "prayer" would be one, for sure IMO but not the only one, and in fact could be a waste of time for some people in some circumstance - like when something needs to be done.
Sigh...The thing is...these guys claim to stand in the gap for us...
It was all about what THEY were doing for us....
Our spirituality was based on what we did, our works...
Our safety, our growth, our understanding, God`s ability to work or not, was all determined by following immutable laws, applying principles, obeying leadership...the list was endless.
When things went south, when we got sick, or bad things happened to us, some obscure thing would be dug up to explain how our understanding or God couldn`t be wrong....We personally had blown it some where, had left the door open.
We didn`t need the shepherd because our leader was standing in the Gap. We didn`t need to be meek of humble because we were super conquerers. Our spirituality was not determined by following the two commandments or walking as Jesus did....our spirituality was determined by the scripture that we studied, the principles applied, the keys utilized, amounts tithed, witnessing time, programs completed....We didn`t have to obey the rules, follow Jesus example because this was the grace administration, anything was lawful as long as we could handle it.
The whole twi thing was based on us and our works to achieve spirituality, us us US!!
Rather than allowing God to work and to will of his good pleasure.
I think we had an Ego problem.
I think that we were taught to look to these guys for protection and guidance, I think that we were our own sufficiency.
Sigh...The thing is...these guys claim to stand in the gap for us...
It was all about what THEY were doing for us....
Our spirituality was based on what we did, our works...
Our safety, our growth, our understanding, God`s ability to work or not, was all determined by following immutable laws, applying principles, obeying leadership...the list was endless.
When things went south, when we got sick, or bad things happened to us, some obscure thing would be dug up to explain how our understanding or God couldn`t be wrong....We personally had blown it some where, had left the door open.
We didn`t need the shepherd because our leader was standing in the Gap. We didn`t need to be meek of humble because we were super conquerers. Our spirituality was not determined by following the two commandments or walking as Jesus did....our spirituality was determined by the scripture that we studied, the principles applied, the keys utilized, amounts tithed, witnessing time, programs completed....We didn`t have to obey the rules, follow Jesus example because this was the grace administration, anything was lawful as long as we could handle it.
The whole twi thing was based on us and our works to achieve spirituality, us us US!!
Rather than allowing God to work and to will of his good pleasure.
I think we had an Ego problem.
I think that we were taught to look to these guys for protection and guidance, I think that we were our own sufficiency.
Hi Rascal,
Bingo-you nailed it!! Legalism with a "Bless You" thrown in for good measure. Perhaps with all our "Principles" and "Laws" and subset of laws--we should have been looking a bit more closely at Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisees. That may have just "Applied" to us, a bit more than is comfortable.
We were, in some ways, like the prodigal sons "older brother" critical of how the father ran his affairs--standing outside while the feast was going on. We were very busy applying "principles" and doing the work, we missed the feast.
However Rascal--it is not too late to join in--as it is still going on and we are still welcomed in by the loving Father.
I have no doubt you will get there, I am going to leave it alone except for this.
I KNOW that "dog under the table feeling". It is called conviction. I know what follows--it is called repentance.
What follows that is forgiveness and salvation.
To save you a step that can take years--just keep this in mind. If a God so Holy and Just is merciful and forgives--who are we to hang on to our sin. We can
again try to tell Him we know best, or we can accept that He does. His way wills out in the end.
I will get there, intellectually I know it. In my heart, I have a far way to go before I have the peace or understanding of actually knowing Jesus.
Rascal, your experiences, that have caused you so much distress, may be one of the very things that will cause you to "actually know him." Hang in there, sister!
In my splinter group the head (I often think of other..... bodyparts) honcho once said to folks that, "without me, God could have wiped you like a plate." gak.....gag!
He bragged three times or four to the whole group that if people only knew what he did in the ministry he'd be in prison. (paranoid..... or maybe criminal)
He told everybody, with TEARS mind you, about all the nights he stayed up just praying for us.
IMO it wasn't anything at all except trying to convince us he was for real in order to have us buy his twisted agenda.
Recommended Posts
rascal
Does it seem to anybody else like we were systematically distanced from Jesus, the true shepherd?
Does it seem like to anybody else that studying, witnessing, tithing, participation in programs, obedience to men of God, replaced the walk of the spirit?
That scripture memorized, classes run, programs completed became the measure of ones spirituality, rather than fruit of the spirit?
Formulas, and principles, replaced our walk of the spirit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Exactly what was it they were doing that they called "standing in the gap"?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spoudazo
The way they pulled off the "standing in the gap" teaching was by diminishing Him to be just a man. Once that was done and the"absent Christ" teaching took place, they as MEN could take His place and assume all sorts of power and control over others.
Jesus needs no one to take his place-if he did God would have given Adam that job.
The Bible is not about us and our "powers" but about our need for redemption- not to "learn principles" in order to live victoriously or abundantly
The greatest abuse in TWI and other cults is deny who Jesus really is- say He is a "person" who had a job that is now relegated to us.
Look at the Moonies-same thing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Yeah, I see what you are saying, Spoudazo but what I really want to understand is what sort of specific activities did VP and LCM consider "standing in the gap"?
I mean, did they think trying to operate the magic "law" of believing defined it?
Did they involve themselves in some sort of fasting or prayer vigil?
What physical or mental activities would be considered "standing in the gap"?
If you disregard the Jesus connection for a moment, it really appears that this was just another silly catch phrase that had no real meaning (Like "It's The Word, The Word, and nothing but The Word!".)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spoudazo
I think we now understand what kind of "activities" they were "standing in the gap" with. "Sexual healing" does not qualify as tending the flock. Not in any sane mind.
You are correct. "Standing in the gap" is just as nonbiblical and heinous as "lockbox" or "Believing images of Victory"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
anotherDan
Good points, Rascal and others. It was true for me, that the lordship of Jesus Christ was minimalized and marginalized, and like you, I have a much deeper appreciation not only for how he once stood in the gap for me and for the whole world, but also his current role as "head" and Lord.
That said, I believe that we as Christians are his body, and in whatever ways are set before us, believers should be acting "in Christ's stead." This is quite different from the erroneous "absent Christ" doctrine. We act on his behalf, according to his teachings and commands. This may indeed take the form of prayer or other ways of "standing in the gap." It may mean sacrifice in some form.
Thanks for bringing this up.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Christians use the term Standing in the Gap--in regard to prayer and other things like Dan said.
Seems VP had been standing in the gap for years in some sacrifical way--as his deformity would no longer allow him to do this. I don't get it? He just kinda remembered Jesus was the sacrifice and he was covered?
What kind of pain meds was he on? Does anyone know?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RainbowsGirl
Great Thread((((Rascal)))),
After reading your Great posts Rascal, Spoudaso, Waysider and Dan, I can only add this:
God superseded this practiced doctrinal error/errors propounded or misused by TWI and interceded to protect us while we were deluded to every extent He could.
I say that because GOD saved and healed my sorry a&& and the sorry a&&e& of many I knew and knew of, many a time through His grace and mercy and the sincere and genuine
prayers of the body of Christ.
All will be held accountable for what they taught/teach...How they either represented' or misrepresented GOD's Word and Will; and thus brought, confusion and instability of doctrine to
the church...whom Christ is head!!!
1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Ti 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
I imagine that works conversely as well!!! Fortunately, we did have some teachers in the body who are worthy of of honor
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.
Most of our leadership were seduced by false doctrines and became very weak and very unstable.!!! GOD probably has this no doubt sorted out in a very just way
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 22:6 ¶ And he said unto me, These sayings [are] faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard [them]. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 ¶ And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:18 ¶ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
GOD does not want His word added too or subtracted from
Rev 22:20 ¶ He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
We are waiting
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
Edited by RainbowsGirlLink to comment
Share on other sites
Shellon
I'm reminded of the Patch Adams movie when Robin Williams, playing Patch, is in the mental hospital.
He meets with his shrink and tells him he's leaving, he's going to be a doctor.
The doctor said "that's what I do"
Robin's character says "yes but you suck at it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
"Standi(ing) in the gap" is taken from Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 22:30; I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so that I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.
The whole chapter deals with Israel's condition at the time, and is a scathing reproof of the morals, ethics and conduct of the nation, it's leaders both governmental and religious, and the people, the social order of the day if you will.
TWI taught Jesus Christ as "bridging the gap", a Christian view of redemption that's fairly common - man separated from God, Jesus Christ the means of joining the two, a bridge of sorts.
Which He is, although that statement alone doesn't fully express redemption realized and accepted - the image of a bridge is of a means of access, transport - and Jesus Christ would be in the same way a Shepherd would be with a flock, caring for them. The end result for a follower of Jesus Christ is "pasture" for eternity, with God. So to my mind, the "bridge/gap" idea is a piece but not the whole. Big piece, but the bridge goes somewhere.
Standing in the gap, think I first heard it taught in TWI based on the record in Ezekiel. Wall, the "hedge", that deal about "hedge of protection" figures in. Someone to do the rebuilding and take the place of a "stand" for God, for His instructions, people, way of life, etc.
The aspect of service is foundation to that. If a society is far off the track of God's way of doing things - Ezekiel describes a national condition that's not that hard to picture unfortunately - a great deal of work needs to be done. In this day as then, on all levels.
Under those circumstances there would certainly be some who wouldn't agree or want that kind of change, however, reading Ezekiel, I can see that there would be large part of the population who would benefit and would likely embrace and support that kind of change, it would be seen in political, social, religious, economic, all kinds of stuff.
I guess you're making me think rascal, back in the day, my idea of that "stand in the gap" seemed to be something that had both immediate and local implications as well as much larger, broader ones. I can't really trace how it evolved, or what it evolved into specifically. The blur between standing, bridging, skiing, doing the backstroke, "in the gap", dunno.
It probably came down to basic Christianity 101 - there's a personal individual focus as well as a group, "body" focus. Everyone needs help, and all members have their place. As you point out, Christ has his and it can't be superceded, attempting to do so frustrates the process that's been put in place. I would suppose today to "stand in the gap" would have to be based on a legitimate recognition of Christ's function with the church and a careful considered effort to support a commonly held view of a "successful" one, that gives "glory" to God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
One observation.. assuming that he DID "stand in the gap" for the flock.. it would seem that der vey put up for sale that which the flock already had to begin with.
seems they were masters at manufacturing "problems" people never had to begin with..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Thanks for posting the verse, Socks. Yes, prayer for the believers putting a hedge of protection around them so the adversary can't get in to harm them.
Perty sure that's JC's job as stated by several astute posters.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
You are joking, right? Fasting? Prayer???
Perhaps keeping vigil in the motorcoach?They sure were. Undercut, threaten, demoralize, bully (especially capable people and women), belittle common sense - and then have the bullied woman's husband or the TC or BC claim to be "standing in the gap" for them to protect them. It's just a way of demonstrating control.
Good post, BTW, Socks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Standing in the gap...
...With all due respect to those with noble visions of being a "Christian soldier", standing for God's people...I think that twi used this phrase to lather people up with bull sh *t. Standing in the gap?...I think this phrase evokes thoughts of noble action taken selflessly for the benefit of others...HA HA HA HA HA!
Nothing could be further from the truth. These scoundrals did not stand in the gap, they stood on our shoulders in order to elevate themselves...and then used that phrase for the purpose of promoting their own self importance. In hindsight, it was pretty pathetic.
...and yes, I believe that twi led people away from knowing Christ.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Hmmm. Right - I didn't state that Ezekiel means, today, to pray for believers to put a hedge of protection around them, as a protective measure against harm from the adversary, but there was a lot of that in TWI's intepretation of that verse.
In this life, I believe there's an opportunity to help one another, in the right context and for the right reasons - "prayer" would be one, for sure IMO but not the only one, and in fact could be a waste of time for some people in some circumstance - like when something needs to be done.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
Mr. know it all and johnney jump up were on a "power trip"(for sure)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Sigh...The thing is...these guys claim to stand in the gap for us...
It was all about what THEY were doing for us....
Our spirituality was based on what we did, our works...
Our safety, our growth, our understanding, God`s ability to work or not, was all determined by following immutable laws, applying principles, obeying leadership...the list was endless.
When things went south, when we got sick, or bad things happened to us, some obscure thing would be dug up to explain how our understanding or God couldn`t be wrong....We personally had blown it some where, had left the door open.
We didn`t need the shepherd because our leader was standing in the Gap. We didn`t need to be meek of humble because we were super conquerers. Our spirituality was not determined by following the two commandments or walking as Jesus did....our spirituality was determined by the scripture that we studied, the principles applied, the keys utilized, amounts tithed, witnessing time, programs completed....We didn`t have to obey the rules, follow Jesus example because this was the grace administration, anything was lawful as long as we could handle it.
The whole twi thing was based on us and our works to achieve spirituality, us us US!!
Rather than allowing God to work and to will of his good pleasure.
I think we had an Ego problem.
I think that we were taught to look to these guys for protection and guidance, I think that we were our own sufficiency.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Hi Rascal,
Bingo-you nailed it!! Legalism with a "Bless You" thrown in for good measure. Perhaps with all our "Principles" and "Laws" and subset of laws--we should have been looking a bit more closely at Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisees. That may have just "Applied" to us, a bit more than is comfortable.
We were, in some ways, like the prodigal sons "older brother" critical of how the father ran his affairs--standing outside while the feast was going on. We were very busy applying "principles" and doing the work, we missed the feast.
However Rascal--it is not too late to join in--as it is still going on and we are still welcomed in by the loving Father.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Sigh...Geisha, I know...that`s the way he is. The problem is me. I still feel like the *dog* that feed under the table hoping for dropped scraps.
I will get there, intellectually I know it. In my heart, I have a far way to go before I have the peace or understanding of actually knowing Jesus.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
I have no doubt you will get there, I am going to leave it alone except for this.
I KNOW that "dog under the table feeling". It is called conviction. I know what follows--it is called repentance.
What follows that is forgiveness and salvation.
To save you a step that can take years--just keep this in mind. If a God so Holy and Just is merciful and forgives--who are we to hang on to our sin. We can
again try to tell Him we know best, or we can accept that He does. His way wills out in the end.
I will see you at the feast! :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
rascal, I hear what you are saying.
For me, my time in twi was so disconnected from JC that I don't associate him in any way shape or form with the way.
So, thankfully, that works in my favor and I do feel close to him with no residue, so to speak, or taint from twi or the offshoots.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
anotherDan
Rascal said,
Rascal, your experiences, that have caused you so much distress, may be one of the very things that will cause you to "actually know him." Hang in there, sister!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
I'm another who's still trying to "know" JC rather than just what he wants. Am getting there...
I know God is faithful, I know Him as a Father, just still finding out more about JC as my Big Brother.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
In my splinter group the head (I often think of other..... bodyparts) honcho once said to folks that, "without me, God could have wiped you like a plate." gak.....gag!
He bragged three times or four to the whole group that if people only knew what he did in the ministry he'd be in prison. (paranoid..... or maybe criminal)
He told everybody, with TEARS mind you, about all the nights he stayed up just praying for us.
IMO it wasn't anything at all except trying to convince us he was for real in order to have us buy his twisted agenda.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.