For the reasons stated by P, Cop and LZ I would be in favor of a place that was "safe-haven" for those in P-Mosh, Copenhagen and others positions. And I don't view it as "an inner circle" or "inner sanctum." Most of us here are have no dogs left in the TWI fight - and so yes we post openly - and indeed sooner or later our real names start to circulate. I chose my SN not to be anonymous but so that someone I've known for along time would immediately know who I was - and BTW it really has nothing to do with Rum. We've been gone - no relatives in TWI - no dogs left in the fight. I would view a private forum as no different than perhaps a home for battered women. Those homes which are properly run to their best to provide anonymity for the safety of the residents and often their families. Is that some inner circle? A beaten women desperately seeking safety for perhaps not only herself but for her children as well?? Generally I view the use of those phrases "inner sanctum", "inner circle" as elitist. However I do NOT view protecting victims or POTENTIAL victims as elitist and I do NOT believe that "inner circle" or "inner sanctum" apply here even though the thread is so titled.
For those of us who remember how it sucked SO freaking bad to be in TWI - but no longer have a dog in the fight - why would you care if there is a "safe haven" (whatever that means on the net these days). We can continue to post openly unchanged. Heck think about it - If Paw built a forum like that - we'd never know and hence wouldn't care. We'd just keep on posting where we do now. For those who still have family who are "in" I feel for you.
I know - I know - WAY off the beaten path for my usual intolerance. Flame on!!
The bottom line is that I have to choose between making friends with people on this site and feeling free to open up versus keeping a relationship with my "earthly" family by pretending to be uninterested in the cult I grew up in which I now know is completely evil and full of lies and idiocy which is used to hurt my family members. My parents, for example, are nothing close to rich, yet they give more than the tithe because they hope that one day God will reward them for giving so much to the ministry, yet they don't have enough money to retire on. The Way bleeds people of their money, their time, their ability to think, their free will, and their happiness. However, despite this I simply don't feel comfortable talking about my personal experiences in TWI other than in a very vague way because I know that TWI reads this site.
I feel ya P... as most all know here I have family that is still in... way, way, way in... but the way I've always looked at it (and the way I really think it works) is that there is nothing at all that I could post here that would bring any harm or ill fortune or whatever you want to call it to them...
because I'm the evil pozzesed outsider... anyone who has read my posts through the years knows exactly who I am and who my family is... it has caused them absolutely no problems from twi... now... if you want to talk about 'inter-familial' problems that's another story... but that was already there anyway because I "left the ministry".
I guess a question I have for you P is: do your folks know exactly how you feel about twi? ...or is it someplace you just don't go? which I can certainly understand because they are your folks... the only folks you'll ever have which is something I don't have to worry about.
my family (both in and out) know exactly where I stand on twi so it's no 'news' to anyone, and maybe it's just dawning on me that perhaps you don't want your folks to feel undo pressure from within by someone in twi coming up to them and saying stuff like "do you know what P is saying?"... is that where you're coming from? if it is, then it makes it a little easier for me to understand (not that it makes any difference) I've just never even had these thoughts...
oh... and P-Mosh... I don't think you have any worries about making friends with people on this site... I consider you a "friend" as I'm sure many do... we don't always agree (mostly cuz you're a young whipper snapper) but I don't take any of that personally... contribute or not at whatever level you feel comfortable regardless of the reason for the level of comfort...
I guess a question I have for you P is: do your folks know exactly how you feel about twi? ...or is it someplace you just don't go? which I can certainly understand because they are your folks... the only folks you'll ever have which is something I don't have to worry about.
We never talk about it. It's sort of a "don't ask don't tell" type situation I think. I know they still go, and I have "informants" that would tell me if they ever stopped going to TWI events. I know they have relaxed some from the Martindale days, which is a good thing, but I think that applies to all TWI innies.
Unlike you, the way I left resulted in no claims of me being possessed or anything like that. I simply cut off contact from TWI, minus my parents and some friends who lived in other cities. Some of my friends have also left, and they aren't interested in talking about it or even looking for something like this site. We still talk, but rarely, if ever in some cases, talk about TWI.
my family (both in and out) know exactly where I stand on twi so it's no 'news' to anyone, and maybe it's just dawning on me that perhaps you don't want your folks to feel undo pressure from within by someone in twi coming up to them and saying stuff like "do you know what P is saying?"... is that where you're coming from? if it is, then it makes it a little easier for me to understand (not that it makes any difference) I've just never even had these thoughts...
That is the problem. If I badmouth "the ministry" and someone sitting in HQ with their beady little eyes identifies who I am, they could simply print them out, fax it over to the limb, and the LC could ask my parents why they still associate with me since I badmouth "their" ministry so much. I've seen how evil and manipulative TWI can be first hand. They are adept at twisting words, forcing themselves into people's lives, creating fear, and abusing people mentally and verbally. In particular, things were especially bad in the 90's under LCM's reign. I don't think most of the people on this site, that left before then, really understand how it all was. For example, to take a vacation somewhere, I had to send an email or verbally tell my boss at work. In TWI, I had to submit a vacation request form (over half a page long if I remember correctly), hand that to my HFC, who would hand it over to the LC, who would contact the LC in the state I was going to vacation on, and probably pass it on to the city's leadership in case I needed anything, or more likely to assign a fellowship for me to attend while on vacation if I happened to be on vacation on Wednesday or Sunday.
oh... and P-Mosh... I don't think you have any worries about making friends with people on this site... I consider you a "friend" as I'm sure many do... we don't always agree (mostly cuz you're a young whipper snapper) but I don't take any of that personally... contribute or not at whatever level you feel comfortable regardless of the reason for the level of comfort...
Thanks Tom. I think you're a good guy and appreciate what you have to say. As always, I will contribute as much as I am comfortable with. My idea in posting this was to expand the comfort levels involved, but I can see why others would find problems with it.
What happens if a member of the hidden forums accidently repeats something in the open forums that another poster revealed in the hidden forum (for instance - perhaps they forgot you mentioned it in the hidden forum and thought it was already public knowledge)?
What happens if a member of the hidden forums PMs something you said in those forums to someone who is not a member of the hidden forums? Add to that then that person tells someone else, etc. etc.?
Those are issues that have to be considered, I would think.
That is not a considerations in my book. What happens if I know you personally and repeat in a public forum a phone conversation or email we exchanged? You cannot get or guarantee total privacy or anonymity - you are reliant on the trust of the person(s) with whom you discuss intimate topics.
What happens if a member of the hidden forums accidently repeats something in the open forums that another poster revealed in the hidden forum (for instance - perhaps they forgot you mentioned it in the hidden forum and thought it was already public knowledge)?
What happens if a member of the hidden forums PMs something you said in those forums to someone who is not a member of the hidden forums? Add to that then that person tells someone else, etc. etc.?
Those are issues that have to be considered, I would think.
I think you can do that. Start a private thing and invite who you want. Maybe you could have a section here that says something like.... come here if you can't talk openely. But then how do you know whoever is coming there isn't a wayfer GB?
I don't know. I really don't. In some ways, i feel like "have at it". Just say what you feel and hope it will help your loved ones wake up or not. You know what I mean?
If it causes them to report on you to your family -- maybe that's a good thing.
Don't get me wrong. I haven't been in this position so I may be way out of bounds.
--
You could start a thread/section -- like P or Cope. You could say, I want to meet with our privately to discuss whatever. And you, yourself, could decide who is trustworthy. I don't think it's possible to electronically (?) decide who is trustworthy. That's going to be up to the individual.
--
As far as secret forums -- leave me out. And thankyou for leaving me out of the sexual abuse one -- or whatever the hellll that was.
But trying to the get this site to do it -- seems like a long stretch.
--
And this is not pawtucket's living room. This a site he has been kind enough to host. Thank you. But I hope he sees us a valuable contributors.
This discussion also begs the question regarding posers: Â what if an innie twi person creates a sympathetic profile and then gets accepted onto this hidden forum, gleans information from the other truth tellers, and reports it back to twi? Â
You are now more exposed than ever before. Â How are you gonna effectively screen this person out? Â We've already witnessed the wierewill apologists being relentless, to the extreeem, in their pursuit of what they "believe" is right...the twi innies would be worse.
Either way, the worst that could happen would be the indivual or loved one gets expelled from twi, in the long run, how bad could that be? Â Â Â Just kidding, couldn't help myself on that one, in reality, ending the twi relationship is often devistating.
That is not a considerations in my book. What happens if I know you personally and repeat in a public forum a phone conversation or email we exchanged? You cannot get or guarantee total privacy or anonymity - you are reliant on the trust of the person(s) with whom you discuss intimate topics.
That is pretty much my point, RumRunner - you can NOT guarantee privacy or anonymity - especially on the internet. To set up a "private forum" has the potential to give a false sense of security, one that could potentially be very damaging to a poster with family members still in TWI.
We've already witnessed the wierewill apologists being relentless, to the extreeem, in their pursuit of what they "believe" is right...the twi innies would be worse.
Then again the same can be said for those with a ax to grind. What we really have observed is a request for factual information not unsupported theories as fact. Now everyone of course is entitled to their opinion as long as it is not passed off as truth.
The word "privacy" comes to mind. Having it is nice.
This isn't meant to sound pejorative to those that would use such a resource, but it seems there are "special needs' amongst the GS participants, where the ability to post and have them be more private would be a benefit. If that's doable, I'd say go for it. But there's always a chance that the privacy will be invaded. Posting is anonymous for the most part. Who knows who's who? I agree that aspect of it may be too unweildy to manage and eliminate all risk.
Hey there Robin. I'll disagree with that one, though I do see where you are coming from. :)
Mr.P-Mosh (given his situation), makes a valid point. Also --- this is a RECOVERY site.
Folks need to be able to ask, question, discuss, etc., without fear of the wayGB.
Nothing *cliquish* about that at all, especially if they still have family *in*,
and need advice to help them out, eh? Just my imo. :)
I understand Mr. P-Mosh's point and I empathize with his and others predicament of having friends and family still in twi. I suppose what I don't understand how is it that lurker here can find out someone's identity without that persons consent. You know my name is Robin because I given out that information. Most here post under pseudonyms.
Who decides who is able to post in the "inner circle." What is the screening criteria? What safeguards would be in place that this forum wouldn't be used to malign someone who is not privy to remarks against him/herself. There was such a forum had a similar noble purpose that turned into a slander room.
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RumRunner
For the reasons stated by P, Cop and LZ I would be in favor of a place that was "safe-haven" for those in P-Mosh, Copenhagen and others positions. And I don't view it as "an inner circle" or "inner sanctum." Most of us here are have no dogs left in the TWI fight - and so yes we post openly - and indeed sooner or later our real names start to circulate. I chose my SN not to be anonymous but so that someone I've known for along time would immediately know who I was - and BTW it really has nothing to do with Rum. We've been gone - no relatives in TWI - no dogs left in the fight. I would view a private forum as no different than perhaps a home for battered women. Those homes which are properly run to their best to provide anonymity for the safety of the residents and often their families. Is that some inner circle? A beaten women desperately seeking safety for perhaps not only herself but for her children as well?? Generally I view the use of those phrases "inner sanctum", "inner circle" as elitist. However I do NOT view protecting victims or POTENTIAL victims as elitist and I do NOT believe that "inner circle" or "inner sanctum" apply here even though the thread is so titled.
For those of us who remember how it sucked SO freaking bad to be in TWI - but no longer have a dog in the fight - why would you care if there is a "safe haven" (whatever that means on the net these days). We can continue to post openly unchanged. Heck think about it - If Paw built a forum like that - we'd never know and hence wouldn't care. We'd just keep on posting where we do now. For those who still have family who are "in" I feel for you.
I know - I know - WAY off the beaten path for my usual intolerance. Flame on!!
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Tom Strange
I feel ya P... as most all know here I have family that is still in... way, way, way in... but the way I've always looked at it (and the way I really think it works) is that there is nothing at all that I could post here that would bring any harm or ill fortune or whatever you want to call it to them...
because I'm the evil pozzesed outsider... anyone who has read my posts through the years knows exactly who I am and who my family is... it has caused them absolutely no problems from twi... now... if you want to talk about 'inter-familial' problems that's another story... but that was already there anyway because I "left the ministry".
I guess a question I have for you P is: do your folks know exactly how you feel about twi? ...or is it someplace you just don't go? which I can certainly understand because they are your folks... the only folks you'll ever have which is something I don't have to worry about.
my family (both in and out) know exactly where I stand on twi so it's no 'news' to anyone, and maybe it's just dawning on me that perhaps you don't want your folks to feel undo pressure from within by someone in twi coming up to them and saying stuff like "do you know what P is saying?"... is that where you're coming from? if it is, then it makes it a little easier for me to understand (not that it makes any difference) I've just never even had these thoughts...
oh... and P-Mosh... I don't think you have any worries about making friends with people on this site... I consider you a "friend" as I'm sure many do... we don't always agree (mostly cuz you're a young whipper snapper) but I don't take any of that personally... contribute or not at whatever level you feel comfortable regardless of the reason for the level of comfort...
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Mister P-Mosh
We never talk about it. It's sort of a "don't ask don't tell" type situation I think. I know they still go, and I have "informants" that would tell me if they ever stopped going to TWI events. I know they have relaxed some from the Martindale days, which is a good thing, but I think that applies to all TWI innies.
Unlike you, the way I left resulted in no claims of me being possessed or anything like that. I simply cut off contact from TWI, minus my parents and some friends who lived in other cities. Some of my friends have also left, and they aren't interested in talking about it or even looking for something like this site. We still talk, but rarely, if ever in some cases, talk about TWI.
That is the problem. If I badmouth "the ministry" and someone sitting in HQ with their beady little eyes identifies who I am, they could simply print them out, fax it over to the limb, and the LC could ask my parents why they still associate with me since I badmouth "their" ministry so much. I've seen how evil and manipulative TWI can be first hand. They are adept at twisting words, forcing themselves into people's lives, creating fear, and abusing people mentally and verbally. In particular, things were especially bad in the 90's under LCM's reign. I don't think most of the people on this site, that left before then, really understand how it all was. For example, to take a vacation somewhere, I had to send an email or verbally tell my boss at work. In TWI, I had to submit a vacation request form (over half a page long if I remember correctly), hand that to my HFC, who would hand it over to the LC, who would contact the LC in the state I was going to vacation on, and probably pass it on to the city's leadership in case I needed anything, or more likely to assign a fellowship for me to attend while on vacation if I happened to be on vacation on Wednesday or Sunday.
Thanks Tom. I think you're a good guy and appreciate what you have to say. As always, I will contribute as much as I am comfortable with. My idea in posting this was to expand the comfort levels involved, but I can see why others would find problems with it.
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Abigail
What happens if a member of the hidden forums accidently repeats something in the open forums that another poster revealed in the hidden forum (for instance - perhaps they forgot you mentioned it in the hidden forum and thought it was already public knowledge)?
What happens if a member of the hidden forums PMs something you said in those forums to someone who is not a member of the hidden forums? Add to that then that person tells someone else, etc. etc.?
Those are issues that have to be considered, I would think.
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RumRunner
That is not a considerations in my book. What happens if I know you personally and repeat in a public forum a phone conversation or email we exchanged? You cannot get or guarantee total privacy or anonymity - you are reliant on the trust of the person(s) with whom you discuss intimate topics.
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GrouchoMarxJr
How about...allowing the person who wishes privacy to set up their own private forum and invite whom they want?
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excathedra
I think you can do that. Start a private thing and invite who you want. Maybe you could have a section here that says something like.... come here if you can't talk openely. But then how do you know whoever is coming there isn't a wayfer GB?
I don't know. I really don't. In some ways, i feel like "have at it". Just say what you feel and hope it will help your loved ones wake up or not. You know what I mean?
If it causes them to report on you to your family -- maybe that's a good thing.
Don't get me wrong. I haven't been in this position so I may be way out of bounds.
--
You could start a thread/section -- like P or Cope. You could say, I want to meet with our privately to discuss whatever. And you, yourself, could decide who is trustworthy. I don't think it's possible to electronically (?) decide who is trustworthy. That's going to be up to the individual.
--
As far as secret forums -- leave me out. And thankyou for leaving me out of the sexual abuse one -- or whatever the hellll that was.
But trying to the get this site to do it -- seems like a long stretch.
--
And this is not pawtucket's living room. This a site he has been kind enough to host. Thank you. But I hope he sees us a valuable contributors.
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excathedra
I would like to add I'm sorry for those of you who still have to contend with TWI. I love you. I'm really sad about that.
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now I see
This discussion also begs the question regarding posers: Â what if an innie twi person creates a sympathetic profile and then gets accepted onto this hidden forum, gleans information from the other truth tellers, and reports it back to twi? Â
You are now more exposed than ever before. Â How are you gonna effectively screen this person out? Â We've already witnessed the wierewill apologists being relentless, to the extreeem, in their pursuit of what they "believe" is right...the twi innies would be worse.
Either way, the worst that could happen would be the indivual or loved one gets expelled from twi, in the long run, how bad could that be? Â
  Just kidding, couldn't help myself on that one, in reality, ending the twi relationship is often devistating.
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Abigail
That is pretty much my point, RumRunner - you can NOT guarantee privacy or anonymity - especially on the internet. To set up a "private forum" has the potential to give a false sense of security, one that could potentially be very damaging to a poster with family members still in TWI.
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copenhagen
I am not pushing for an inner circle.
I guess in a perfect world I would not be in the twi, the next
best would be a place like the cafe where I could share more openly.
I understand any time you expose your self on the internet or any
open forum its on you to not give away to much or run the risk of
getting caught, exposed or whatever.
It would be nice because the old cafe here is a haven for me.
In the past I have sent pm's other members who I feel trustworthy
to share some things or information I felt was important to add to
a topic. I have chosen wisley but if I didnt it was on me.
I know the risks of being in the way and coming here and its a choice.
The cafe is like a real fellowship, I learn from lots of diffrent people,
pray for people who have needs and learn all about the ways dirty
little secrets. At the cafe you hear lots of diffrent opnions and see
diffrent points of opnion its a good thing.
Being able to share more openly and not having to have a person
as a go between would be nice.
copenhagen
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rascal
Thanks copenhagen and p mosh for what you DO bring to the cafe. I enjoy what you can share. I am sorry that you are unable to fully participate.
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WhiteDove
Then again the same can be said for those with a ax to grind. What we really have observed is a request for factual information not unsupported theories as fact. Now everyone of course is entitled to their opinion as long as it is not passed off as truth.
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now I see
See what I mean? Â Â
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excathedra
what do you mean right there, dear copenhagen ?
love,ex
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oenophile
Sounds pretty cliquish to me. Kinda like TWI.
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dmiller
Hey there Robin. I'll disagree with that one, though I do see where you are coming from. :)
Mr.P-Mosh (given his situation), makes a valid point. Also --- this is a RECOVERY site.
Folks need to be able to ask, question, discuss, etc., without fear of the wayGB.
Nothing *cliquish* about that at all, especially if they still have family *in*,
and need advice to help them out, eh? Just my imo. :)
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socks
The word "privacy" comes to mind. Having it is nice.
This isn't meant to sound pejorative to those that would use such a resource, but it seems there are "special needs' amongst the GS participants, where the ability to post and have them be more private would be a benefit. If that's doable, I'd say go for it. But there's always a chance that the privacy will be invaded. Posting is anonymous for the most part. Who knows who's who? I agree that aspect of it may be too unweildy to manage and eliminate all risk.
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copenhagen
Ex asked
(Being able to share more openly and not having to have a person as a go between would be nice.
what do you mean right there, dear copenhagen ?)
There has been a few times I had detailed info on people or a situation that came up
at the cafe. If I openly post or say what I want it might give clues to my area, state or who I am.
This info was was about a person still in the way and they were a leader.
I gave another poster who I trusted info about this person and a few bone head
things they just did to hurt people under him. They in turn told the story here at the cafe
keeping out certain things to not give to many details.
This poster could of never had that info because they were out of the way and I am sure
the WGB knows who they are.
If I openly post some things, they could find out who I am.
I am sure I would be in a sit down with leadership real fast.
Thats why I need a go between.
copenhagen
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pawtucket
copenhagen,
That is a very good way to post info. You can definitely find trust worthy folks here
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copenhagen
Paw,
I agree there are wonderful people here with great hearts.
Thats why I come here.
Like I said before I am not pushing for the inner circle just saying
it would be nice. I am pretty vocal but not at the cafe because of
the WGB. If I feel strong about something I will post or use a go between.
I am just glad to have the cafe and all of the diffrent people here to learn from
and share with.
copenhagen
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excathedra
thank you for the response cope
i wish you well and pray that your life gets to where you want it to be
love,ex
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oenophile
I understand Mr. P-Mosh's point and I empathize with his and others predicament of having friends and family still in twi. I suppose what I don't understand how is it that lurker here can find out someone's identity without that persons consent. You know my name is Robin because I given out that information. Most here post under pseudonyms.
Who decides who is able to post in the "inner circle." What is the screening criteria? What safeguards would be in place that this forum wouldn't be used to malign someone who is not privy to remarks against him/herself. There was such a forum had a similar noble purpose that turned into a slander room.
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Lifted Up
Well is "internet privacy" an oxymoron?
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