An idea for this site: The Inner Circle

[Mister P-Mosh]

A lot of us still have loved ones in TWI, or are still in ourselves for various reasons and want to leave. However, it has been proven in the past that members of TWI read the posts here and have used them against individuals before. As a result, every time those of us in these circumstances want to open ourselves up too much, we end up holding back. I know I have carefully guarded myself against revealing too much information here as well as getting too close to anyone on this site.

There is a possible solution though, and I'd like to hear what you all think about it. On message boards like this, you can create forums that are hidden from the public and only certain folks can view. In fact, I seem to recall hearing that there is one for the moderators here. We could use this to create another section of the site, what you could call "The Inner Circle" or something, that only folks that meet certain criteria of safety can access. That way, some WayGB person can't just register here and read the comments posted in that forum.

If we were to do something like that, I would suggest that it starts first with Pawtucket and the moderators. Then, they add the people they personally know that post on this site. Those people can vouch for others on this site, and so on until all of the "trusted" people are included. Oh, and by "personally know" I would also suggest making that require physically meeting people, not just someone you like on this site. I know that this would exclude a lot of people like myself, but it would help provide a more open area for everyone who can be a part of it to freely talk in.

[now I see]

You should definitely tell Paw of your idea...

I post on other websites where they have restricted entry forums, although often to get in, your credentials are validated and checked, such as name, address, or references, or employmental verifications are made if it is a proffessional website, sometimes fees and matching names and cc#'s are required.  

I don't know if we're set up here to do checks to verify whether someone is still an innie and if the person posting is really who they say they are......?   Who would you let in and who would you keep out, and if so, based on what?  Might prove to be as contentious as the Way Corps website.  Is there a way to avoid these obstacals?

Maybe the same thing could be accomlished with the private messaging feature here to individuals that are trustworthy "pillars" on the GS forums.  Maybe some could volunteer to be mentors or something.

[rascal]

That sounds like a great idea. The thing is, trying to figure out who meets the criteria. No matter how careful you try to be, someone is always bound to be left out, or feelings hurt, or one person will have a problem with another and not want that one in...yadda yadda. Then there is the poster that comes in and decides that they enjoy the attention received by betraying the trust of the rest of the group

I would seriously love to see this happen. I just don`t know if it is possible :(

[pawtucket]

Mister P-Mosh,

It is an idea that I have thought about. I have a private moderators forum. And one for the group of people helping with refining the rules. The reason that I haven't made forums private is specifically for people that are still and may not have untraceable internet access so that no cookies would be left on the computer from logging in.

I'm willing to do an experiment on it. picking who goes in and who doesn't is a very tricky issue though

[Lifted Up]

That sounds like a great idea. The thing is, trying to figure out who meets the criteria. No matter how careful you try to be, someone is always bound to be left out, or feelings hurt, or one person will have a problem with another and not want that one in...yadda yadda. Then there is the poster that comes in and decides that they enjoy the attention received by betraying the trust of the rest of the group

I would seriously love to see this happen. I just don`t know if it is possible :(

Sigh, the world is full of great ideas that are "easier said than done".

Hasnt this idea popped up before in the case of abuse victims? Or maybe it has and I'm not supposed to know, which is perfectly fine. In fact, the more something like this is publicized, the more problems there would be I guess. I think Paw admits to the moderators circle because there should be no one who objects to that.

[waysider]

Would entrance to the inner circle involve being blindfolded, eating some ungodly hot root or pepper(or something) and swearing to never reveal what secrets lurk in the inner sanctum?

errrrr--never mind. You didn't hear it from me.---Mum's the word.

[dmiller]

There are two boards that I am on, that require that one be *authenticated* before being allowed as a member.

If you're not a member, you don't get to see what is being discussed. Plain and simple. And that's for everything.

You see the front page, and if you can't log in --- you DON'T get in.

That aspect (might) work here for *hidden forums*, but not overall. As pointed out --- some areas on this site need to be OPEN to all seeking solace or info about the cornfield cult (such as About TWI/ Open/ Etc.), and there are other areas that might need to be private, free from the prying eyes of the Way GB and from those wishing to do posters (here at the site and questioning the ORG) harm.

It's an idea. Might actually work. Time will tell if should it be implemented.

I've one thing to say about ONE of those two *other* sites I'm on:

I can safely say ---- it has been the subject of MUCH discussion, searching, questioning if it even existed, etc.,

on other boards that have been (somewhat) related to that one. (Won't say who's questioning!) ;)

That it exists is a reality. That it is *hidden so well* was due to the secrecy of the members (myself included).

Those looking to find the url of the site couldn't/ can't do it, cause we ain't talking out of school.

When we were invited to it, we knew it wasn't for *publication* to the masses, or anyone else for that matter.

That's what will be needed (should something like this be implemented here). Whoever is invited:

*To the Special Room*, needs to know how to Zip the Lip about it's existance, if it is going to be successful.

Then --- once you've spoken in the *private room*, keep those posts and comments there;

and don't share or refer to them out on the general board. :)

My IMO -- but I've seen it work. ;)

[mstar1]

ive seen it work too, although a little differently than dmillers

I belong to another board that has several layers,

Anyone can lurk and read through most of the site. , including the main boards.

'Lurkers' can then register and post on many selected forums on the site . They are still considered 'lurkers' even though they can post in several places

'Members' can post on the all the boards BUT they also have their own members sections that is inaccessible to non members and lurkers

There is a very stringent and tight application process to become a member, it is by no means automatic, they dont take (or want) everybody, there are no guarantees anyone will get in.

IF they are accepted as members there are not ony the applications and acceptance but annual dues and requirements, and they still can be bounced out at anytime as there is a fairly complex warning/suspension/banning system in place if they break the rules, or have an attitude. There is a zero tolerance policy

Occassionally 'members' get demoted to "lurkers' if they do something stupid, or proven lurkers can be promoted to probationary members.

It requires diligence and work from the moderators--but it does and can work

[rhino]

While I can see some value of being able to speak more freely, it seems too much like a place where discussions about the other discussions/people would take place. The outer circle would be more like new twigees ...

But I don't know anyone still in TWI, so I don't get how P-Mosh or others are limited in the discussions, exactly.

It also seems like a place where the more "popular" (AC grads) of GSC would congregate, free from "attack" or free from outside opinion. It seems this would be more divisive than helpful, and people reading to get help would miss out on those posts that discuss exactly their type of situation.

People talk of how this is Pawtucket's site ... and certainly he and mod's put in more time/money than most ... but it is the basic anti cult message that most are here to contribute to ... so in that respect is is everyone's site with the common cause of exposing the fraud and overcoming some of the residue of TWI or other abuse or domination.

Having to prove yourself to work your way into some sort of inner sanctum, where you have to behave as some select body decides, seems antithetical to the cause.

Especially since the select body has proven to be fallible on many occasions. People can pm each other privately, but to make it more broad, to the point of whole private forums, seems too much like another power structure thang.

It would put an incentive or an intimidation to post in alignment with the prominent thinking of the inner circle powers ... lest you be demoted, or not promoted. Free thinking should be at a premium here.

Of course the pretense of fairness for demotion/non promotion would always be there, but the underlying personal reasons for actions would be hidden even more than they are now.

It seems a move in the wrong direction.

Edited August 16, 2008 by rhino

[RumRunner]

While I can see some value of being able to speak more freely, it seems too much like a place where discussions about the other discussions/people would take place. The outer circle would be more like new twigees ...

That will happen in any case...and already does...

But I don't know anyone still in TWI, so I don't get how P-Mosh or others are limited in the discussions, exactly.

It also seems like a place where the more "popular" (AC grads) of GSC would congregate, free from "attack" or free from outside opinion. It seems this would be more divisive than helpful, and people reading to get help would miss out on those posts that discuss exactly their type of situation.

People talk of how this is Pawtucket's site ... and certainly he and mod's put in more time/money than most ... but it is the basic anti cult message that most are here to contribute to ... so in that respect is is everyone's site with the common cause of exposing the fraud and overcoming some of the residue of TWI or other abuse or domination.

On this point I will disagree with you. I have no dog in this issue...but I do not consider GSC to be public. It is a site that Paw can shut down whenever he wants. It is mostly his time and secondarily that of the mods who keep it running. I will use the analogy of my house. You are welcome as a guest provided you don't do something like pee in my dishwasher - however it is my house and hence my rules (as constrained by statutes). I CERTAINLY appreciate the message you are trying to get across about the anti-cult sentiment of GSC but I still do NOT see it as my right to be here. I also appreciate (and hence agree with you) that it has done much to expose the fraud etc - and hence is a service to many many people who may not feel there is much other choice of venues to vent their feelings, hurt, etc.

Having to prove yourself to work your way into some sort of inner sanctum, where you have to behave as some select body decides, seems antithetical to the cause.

No different than almost anything else humans do. Businesses have their "inner sanctums", as does government (in any flavor), other "social" groups (Mensa, Masons et al), theme specific sites other than GSC. By definition you have already "proved" yourself by registering. Guests are allowed forum access to some degree, but once you register you can "chat" etc....so by definition we already have a semi-inner sanctum

Especially since the select body has proven to be fallible on many occasions. People can pm each other privately, but to make it more broad, to the point of whole private forums, seems too much like another power structure thang.

It would put an incentive or an intimidation to post in alignment with the prominent thinking of the inner circle powers ... lest you be demoted, or not promoted. Free thinking should be at a premium here.

I agree with you "in spirit" and see the value of your post with regard to value to the folks here - my only issue is that I think it is still not public any more than my home is.

Of course the pretense of fairness for demotion/non promotion would always be there, but the underlying personal reasons for actions would be hidden even more than they are now.

It seems a move in the wrong direction.

[rhino]

People talk of how this is Pawtucket's site ... and certainly he and mod's put in more time/money than most ... but it is the basic anti cult message that most are here to contribute to ... so in that respect is is everyone's site with the common cause of exposing the fraud and overcoming some of the residue of TWI or other abuse or domination.

On this point I will disagree with you. I have no dog in this issue...but I do not consider GSC to be public. It is a site that Paw can shut down whenever he wants. It is mostly his time and secondarily that of the mods who keep it running. I will use the analogy of my house. You are welcome as a guest provided you don't do something like pee in my dishwasher - however it is my house and hence my rules (as constrained by statutes). I CERTAINLY appreciate the message you are trying to get across about the anti-cult sentiment of GSC but I still do NOT see it as my right to be here. I also appreciate (and hence agree with you) that it has done much to expose the fraud etc - and hence is a service to many many people who may not feel there is much other choice of venues to vent their feelings, hurt, etc.

Of course Pawtucket can do whatever he wants, of course we have no legal right to demand anything. I'm thinking of a higher moral position that considers the whole body of contributors. There are people that want to contribute .. freely, but don't like to feel they are in some dark anti cult, squashed speech regime.

If it is a bully pulpit for a few to have their own private Idaho ... that will attract a different kind of contributor. I'm expressing my view that open forums where even the anti cult sentiment gets vetted, so as not to get too off base or hyperbolic ... would be healthier.

Having to prove yourself to work your way into some sort of inner sanctum, where you have to behave as some select body decides, seems antithetical to the cause.

No different than almost anything else humans do. Businesses have their "inner sanctums", as does government (in any flavor), other "social" groups (Mensa, Masons et al), theme specific sites other than GSC. By definition you have already "proved" yourself by registering. Guests are allowed forum access to some degree, but once you register you can "chat" etc....so by definition we already have a semi-inner sanctum

Registering is open to anyone without revealing anything.

It doesn't seem to me an anti cult site, or a cultee help and reconnect site ... lends itself well to having an inner sanctum where secret topics are discussed. The moderators have that, and everyone else has the pm option, without setting up more divisions .. sure there could be advantages, I'm looking at the pitfalls.

Especially since the select body has proven to be fallible on many occasions. People can pm each other privately, but to make it more broad, to the point of whole private forums, seems too much like another power structure thang.

It would put an incentive or an intimidation to post in alignment with the prominent thinking of the inner circle powers ... lest you be demoted, or not promoted. Free thinking should be at a premium here.

I agree with you "in spirit" and see the value of your post with regard to value to the folks here - my only issue is that I think it is still not public any more than my home is.

Legally ... true ...

But your home is where you live ... whereas this is an open forum to the world where people have invested countless hours. It is carried over from another site, WayDale ... or whatever ... and I think many perceive Pawtucket's actions more as a charitable public service than a private hand selected club where he is king ... I'd even venture to guess that is closer to Pawtucket's perception, as opposed to a forum of folks he would invite into his living room.

He and whoever he chooses will make the decision ... I'm offering my input as a public ervice, as to what I perceive would be more effective at telling the other side of the TWI story, and keeping the body of people that choose to socialize here, united or at least connected. :)

(also, what happens if WayGB infiltrates ... then people feel safe, expose more than they should, and then are outed ... or whatever)

Edited August 16, 2008 by rhino

[Linda Z]

Rhino asked a good question:

...what happens if WayGB infiltrates ... then people feel safe, expose more than they should, and then are outed

Didn't that happen with the "abuse victims' 'secret' forum"? Couldn't anyone with more-than-average computer savvy create a personna and register for an account, gain trust of GSers, and get accepted into the "Inner Sanctum"?

P-Mosh, I really sympathize with the difficult position you're in, but I wonder if you couldn't still open up about your feelings/experiences without revealing enough specifics to expose your family to twi scrutiny or reveal to the innies in your family that you participate here? I'm not in your shoes, so I probably don't understand how hard that might be.

An alternative might be for someone who's so inclined to start another site, totally separate from GS, solely for the purpose of discussions by people in P-Mosh's circumstances. Totally private and unadvertised, invitation-only. Then if there were "leaks," at least GS, which serves a much broader audience, wouldn't be to blame.

[Linda Z]

By the definitions of "public" and "private," I'd say GS is both. It's public because it's open to public view and participation--anyone with Internet access can read what's here and, if he or she wants to register, can post here. It's private because it's privately owned and maintained. Even public places have rules and people can be ejected from them, but it doesn't make them private.

Although none of us would be here on GS were it not for Paw's generousity in making this site possible, each person who contributes here adds value to this place. Every point of view, every expression of anti, neutral, or pro twi sentiment gives all of us a big picture of what the whole twi thing was/is about and how it affected/affects us, whether positively or negatively.

In other words, without all the people here, there wouldn't be a GSC, and it's obvious Paw knows that. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement: We need Paw in order to be here, and he needs the GSers in order for GS to be what it is.

I'm sorry, Rummie (nice to see ya, BTW ), but I don't think your analogy of inviting people to your home applies here. I trust your front door isn't wide open so that anyone coming down your street can walk in and "join the party," like the door to GS is, electronically speaking. And the existence of your private home is not dependent on anyone outside coming into it. It would be what it is with or without invited guests. But without the participants on GS, it would just be Paw sitting in front of a computer screen with crickets chirping in the background. :D

[RumRunner]

Thanks LZ - No need to say you are sorry. I disagreed with Rhino on a couple of small points and you disagree with me on one. One of the niceer things on GSC eh? We can disagree and still remain friends, comrades, etc

I'm sorry, Rummie (nice to see ya, BTW ), but I don't think your analogy of inviting people to your home applies here. I trust your front door isn't wide open so that anyone coming down your street can walk in and "join the party," like the door to GS is, electronically speaking. And the existence of your private home is not dependent on anyone outside coming into it. It would be what it is with or without invited guests. But without the participants on GS, it would just be Paw sitting in front of a computer screen with crickets chirping in the background. :D

[now I see]

Why not just get another username to post any sensitive comments, so that it couldn't be traced to your current handle?  Of course you would have to be dilligent to never offer any incriminating information such as location, etc, and leave specific posts that would give that kind of info to the private message category.  

Maybe we could set up mentors here who could assist newbies and innies who want to vent, maybe a no read forum just for that or thru private messaging.  I haven't been here so long to forget what it was like when I first found GS almost two years ago, with about zero knowledge of what had gone on behind the scenes and even about LCM's court case, it would have been nice to have something like that to ease the transisiton and have help in assimulating all the GS information.

[GarthP2000]

... it would just be Paw sitting in front of a computer screen with crickets chirping in the background.

Awright! Who told about me providing Paw with a cricket farm?

:P

[waysider]

Ya see, I have this "friend" who has a problem--------

[tFloat]

Do a simple bulletin board outside of this one entirely.

Start the membership by invitation only, probably by pawtucket, eventually building to a membership commitee.

[Mister P-Mosh]

Why not just get another username to post any sensitive comments, so that it couldn't be traced to your current handle? Of course you would have to be dilligent to never offer any incriminating information such as location, etc, and leave specific posts that would give that kind of info to the private message category.

Maybe we could set up mentors here who could assist newbies and innies who want to vent, maybe a no read forum just for that or thru private messaging. I haven't been here so long to forget what it was like when I first found GS almost two years ago, with about zero knowledge of what had gone on behind the scenes and even about LCM's court case, it would have been nice to have something like that to ease the transisiton and have help in assimulating all the GS information.

Part of the problem, as far as I can tell, is that TWI "spies" read this site. As a result, there are people who can't really post things or risk having themselves identified and some trouble being created for innie friends and family. That's my main concern. I don't need some LCM wannabe trying to destroy my family because I post on this site and some of my relatives are still in TWI. As a result of this concern, I don't post personal information here. You won't see my real name, my birthday, my photo, photos of my family, information about where I grew up, who my friends in TWI were when I was a kid, what people I wish I could get in touch with from TWI, etc. If there are people in TWI insane enough to get angry at corps staff for letting a cigarette butt sit in their delicately manicured ashtrays outside at HQ, they are certainly insane enough to collect details on people that post here in the hopes of causing trouble for people no longer in TWI.

The bottom line is that I have to choose between making friends with people on this site and feeling free to open up versus keeping a relationship with my "earthly" family by pretending to be uninterested in the cult I grew up in which I now know is completely evil and full of lies and idiocy which is used to hurt my family members. My parents, for example, are nothing close to rich, yet they give more than the tithe because they hope that one day God will reward them for giving so much to the ministry, yet they don't have enough money to retire on. The Way bleeds people of their money, their time, their ability to think, their free will, and their happiness. However, despite this I simply don't feel comfortable talking about my personal experiences in TWI other than in a very vague way because I know that TWI reads this site.

[WhiteDove]

Oh boy a Yak Twig......Haven't we learned any lessons........ Exactly why is it that

we feel the need to be a part of some secret inner circle?

[cheranne]

Let them ALL see and hear what we all are saying,they need it just as bad as anyone.

Enlightenment anyone?

[Linda Z]

Oh boy a Yak Twig......Haven't we learned any lessons........ Exactly why is it that

we feel the need to be a part of some secret inner circle?

WD, please put on your empathy hat for a minute and read again what P-Mosh said in his first and last post. If you will try to put yourself in his shoes, you might understand his motives better.

I don't think an "Inner Circle" on GS is a good idea, for the reasons I gave earlier in the thread, but it's certainly not because I don't empathize with the position P-Mosh and others are in.

I was at odds with my family twice over twi. First when I pushed them to get involved before they wanted to, and later, after they all got involved, when they left before I did. It wasn't easy, and that was even before the whole "mark and avoid" doctrine took hold, which adds even more pressure to a delicate situation.

[Mister P-Mosh]

WD, please put on your empathy hat for a minute and read again what P-Mosh said in his first and last post. If you will try to put yourself in his shoes, you might understand his motives better.

I don't think an "Inner Circle" on GS is a good idea, for the reasons I gave earlier in the thread, but it's certainly not because I don't empathize with the position P-Mosh and others are in.

I was at odds with my family twice over twi. First when I pushed them to get involved before they wanted to, and later, after they all got involved, when they left before I did. It wasn't easy, and that was even before the whole "mark and avoid" doctrine took hold, which adds even more pressure to a delicate situation.

Thanks Linda. It seems that most oppose my idea, so I won't discuss it further. I'm glad you understand my reasoning for suggesting it at least. If I have to choose between posting on this site and continuing to talk my innie parents, then I'll choose them. That's not to say that I would plan to leave, just that I plan to continue taking strong measures of anonymity here. My parents aren't stupid, but they are brainwashed by TWI and see devil spirits lurking around every corner like all of TWI's advanced class grads are conditioned to believe. I have to deal with them delicately as a result.

[waysider]

For what it's worth, Mr. P., I dig where you're comin' from on this.

Sometimes saying nothing at all seems better than saying it to the wrong person.

Hey! Wanna run down to the truck stop with me?

I hear they're having a big sale on Moon Pies!

[copenhagen]

I am with Mr. Mosh

I come hear just about 5-6 days a week read just about everything and have lots to say.

Problam is I do not say much or respond to things very often.

I also have family still in and would choose them over being exposed.

When I leave it will be on my own terms and hopefully with the entire family.

I would love to say more or tell what I know about the way but I have to be careful.

If it happens count me in.

copenhagen