God gave mankind a brain with the ability to separate truth from error and that includes the ability to separate any harmful doctrine of twi away from the good. Take out the harmful leaven and get the new lump. The good does not have to be trashed along with the evil, in fact, I believe that interpretation is erroneous. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.
God gave us the Holy Spirit to help us seperate truth from error. God expects us to use our brain. He also expects us to have His heart--for those hurt and without.
In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. C.S. Lewis
Do you know how little the amount of CYANIDE it took to turn the "Jonestown koolaid" (flavoraid) from a refreshing drink into a deadly poison? Not a lot. Probably didn't affect the taste, even. Take the ventilation system of a skyscraper, with ionized, filtered air. Clean and pure. Introduce a TINY amount of SARIN to the air, and the people will all suddenly drop dead. Why? Because when something pure has small amounts of something DANGEROUS and DEADLY added to it, adulterating its contents, the entire substance is compromised. Would you be willing to drink a liter of spring water that had a 1/2 ounce of arsenic added? If so, do so in the lobby of the hospital, or you'll never make it in time.
I don't know whether it's because you can't admit that you were misled or because of some other reason, but it's true that you were used by TWI.
As I was.
As Rascal was.
As White Dove was.
As WordWolf was.
Did we learn things useful to us in later life? Some would disagree, but I say yes.
Were our hearts in the right place? Except for those who actually got into TWI for power and/or sex, again I say yes.
Did the people who witnessed to us intentionally mislead us? For the most part, I would say no, because they, too, were misled.
But it doesn't matter whether you're the screw, the screwdriver bit that drives the screw, the drill housing that holds the screwdriver bit, the robotic arm that holds the housing, or the computer that controls the arm, you're still a tool accomplishing the ends of the person in charge.
Arsenic poisoning is, indeed, an interesting parallel.
If I remember correctly, the currently acceptable level for arsenic content in drinking water is 10 parts per BILLION.
( I think that figure may have been revised recently to an even lower level.)
The important thing to remember regarding arsenic is that it has a residual effect.
Once you ingest it, it stays in your body and accumulates unless specific medical measures are taken to remove it.
That's the concept the two little old ladies used to poison their victims in Arsenic And Old Lace.
On an interesting side note, prior to the introduction of penicillin after WWII, arsenic was thought to be a viable treatment for syphilis, a sexually transmitted disease which, if left unchecked, can express itself in latter stages as dementia, delusions of grandieur, irrational behavior and tumors throughout the body.
I can easily relate to being subject to tools. In my case it was twisted disciples of our fearful splinter group leader. Once I had an experience that I think will forever give me an appreciation for the Lord's parable about the splinter and the beam. IMO unwitting tools have some form of beam in their own eye, whether they realize it or not.
I was working on a new walk-in cooler for our fearful leader with a 18 year old young man. We were cutting pieces of oriented strand board while putting up walls around where the cooller would be and I got a splinter in my eye. I went to the two men who were overseeing the project with tears running down the right side of my face from the splinter.
As they had been led into thinking that they were supreme as long as they kissed our fearful leader's butt, they made me stand there for at least two minutes while they finished up their oh-so-important overseeing jobs. I'm thinking, "OMG, just look at the gleam in their eye, and how much they enjoy me being in this predicament.
Finally, they brought me into the main house on the property. They were obviously really enjoying themselves, trying to get the splinter out, but they were unsuccessful. Those to puffed up little..... left the room and I was there with the overseers mother-in-law. As she watched (let's call this woman, LINDA) I got the splinter out of my own eye. Then to my amazement Linda said to me with a lot of attitude mind you,"That was a very large splinter in your eye Jeff." I didn't say anything except, "The splinter is out guys, I'm going back to work."
When I got back to work, the young man said something like," It sure was good for you that you had those two to help you with the splinter!"
I answered(while keeping my good humor to myself), "They couldn't help me, I had to do it for myself!" The poor kid looked shocked, and the next time I saw the overseer, he looked like a whipped puppy. hehehe
I wonder if that was a factor in the same man moving my wife and child out of my house and then telling me,"You are not welcome in fellowship until this shameful situation is resolved."
WHEN YOU ARE SUBJECT TO SPITEFUL TOOLS, THEY WILL HURT YOU.
I've recently read on another thread where a poster that I feel a lot of respect for said very succinctly that she felt shame at realizing that in times past she promoted the TWI and even defended top leadership as Wierwille, Martindale, and Geer...etc.
I have to say that this is not an easy thing to deal with.
Personally, I believe that God Himself worked in and blessed believers that I knew.
I am now convinced that these guys I've already mentioned used the ministry to satisfy there own lusts and preyed on women in a most despicable and predatory manner. And on top of that I believe that TWI became predatory and despicably manipulative in most if not all respects. Not to mention that they must be COMPLETELY UNHINGED if they think that they can stand for God and/ or the truth without dealing with their past honestly in front of everyone.
To me, it's just a simple question of getting the specifics right. I've heard of folks who after being involved in the sexual predation have admitted to their part in it, have turned, and even tried to help those who were used in such a despicable fashion. I hold these folks in high esteem for being able to face their past actions honestly before God and people and prove that they are sorry and have had a change of heart.
But as for me, I still deal with some strong emotions when I think of how I promoted this TWI sesspool, and I have no desire to be taken in again. As far as DIRECT INVOLVEMENT goes, I'm thankful that I am blameless, but before God I know that in the old days ONE PERSON tried to tell me the truth as I see it now, and I blew her off. Thinking about this can still move me to tears, (SNIFFLE) and shame. She was looking for help, and I didn't help. NOW I JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.
Can anyone else relate?
P.S. If any of you think that what you think of as healing will help me feel better, thank you, but save your breath. If I owe anyone an explanation it's that one woman or the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Until the day that I answer for it I don't really want your comfort.
Hi JeffSjo,
It's probably one of the funnier titles for a thread, as such humor is a great way to face some of these pressing concepts. What you have outlined is one of the more honest attempts to come to grips with the "cesspool" of TWI doctrine and practice. Certainly it is painful to face facts that we were all "Tools" in one way or another, leaders from afar promising answers they never intended to answer. We trusted these elders and hoped that one day our enlightenment would come, their answer was take the class, or go on an advance, or attend the ROA, or go WOW, or go Corps, or goto a family camp, or advanced class, or university of life, or the way college program. Use any of the programs of TWI to build that belief and answer those questions, did it work? Were we just fooling ourselves?
My answer today is for me is I was a fool and believed the TWI propaganda for longer then I was involved. I was introduced to TWI around 1980'ish I believed the lie from the start, because it felt so good. I was given the Blue book by my Mom in 1984'ish I read it with a "I don't get it" guilt trip, so I read it more, the more I read it the more I thought I understood. The Camera analogy being one of the most childish and stupid yarns VPW ever spun. But I kept at it and after seeing things (I wanted to see) happen I decided God had called me, (it's hard to recognize psychosis when you are in the middle of it) so by 1987 I saved enough money to fly to Eureka Ca. We held a "miracle class" at Sky Wood's house, it was a miracle because they never had enough to run a class in Eureka for 10 years or something. Every freak and nut case within 50 miles showed up at that class, looking back now I should have packed my bags and headed back to New Jersey after the first session. I stuck around TWI until I was asked by Frank Pavlicka (spell?) to not come back to fellowship until I got my stuff together, that was about November 1994 I left Newport News Va. in December '94.
I date my belief in TWI doctrine from about 1980'ish and I date my TWI involvement from the time I moved to Eureka, Late August 1987 to the Dec 1994 about 7 years, but it didn't end my belief in TWI's doctrine, for that it took until May of 2000. So I guess my belief in TWI's doctrine was about 20 years, wow I just realized that, 20 years of my life spent wasted on chasing a lie. It's no wonder many people here resist when confronted with the truth, they are afraid to face the possibility that all the time they invested was for naught, at least when it comes to TWI's doctrine.
So as far as how you feel about one person you didn't help. I understand, I was part of a super successful WOW team in '92-'93 in Ft. Myers Fla. we ran more classes then any other on the field that year. It's sickening to me to think of how many lives we screwed up by that. I want to contact them all and make my amends but I threw out all my records from TWI long ago and I can't remember who lived where or what their names are. Maybe Mark S. my family and team coordinator still has those records but I doubt he'd be willing to allow me to have a copy.
Thanks for the post and I hope I didn't derail the thread.
I would say that you not only didn't derail the thread, but seem to get it very well. Thank you for your feedback. I hope that things are well with you and yours now.
Sincerely,
JEFF
Thank you Oklahoma City WOW 78,
Those lyrics talk about moving on, and they seem to fit.
TWI was a great big crap sandwich, and the more bread you had, the less crap you had to taste.
Dear Raf,
The more that I think about your post, the more that it's working for me.
I've been thinking about an old poem entitled (I think) "Love is Brown." The moral of the poem is that we have to deal with yucky stuff if we are going to help people.
I think that we have to deal with yucky stuff if we're going to help anybody deal with TWI also. To put the blinders on IMO is like WILLINGLY PUTTING A BEAM IN OUR OWN EYES, and then we won't be able to really love anyone. hhhmmm
I don't like the crap in the crap sandwich, but it sure was there!!!
I really don't want this thread to have to retitled "How to deal with TWI tools" because pointing fingers is far easier than actually helping someone with a problem.
It does seem self evident to me that if someone is incapable of dealing with THE FACTS of TWI history that there is a good chance that they may be somebody's tool.
From me, if I was willing to say, "God will judge" in the face of much testimony and Wierwille's own words while trying to ignore things that happened I think that I would be a TWI tool.
For those that not inclined to believe the real OBVIOUS scriptural remedies to sexual abuse and abuse of power there is still much that we could agree on by just recognizing sick, twisted behavior for what it is.
The report that I heard of Wierwille saying "God will judge" as his answer to being confronted with Way Corps sexual misconduct I consider 100% reliable, and here is why. It came from my splinter group's fearful leader, and the way he said it was made it obvious that in HIS MIND Wierwille was justified in blowing off a member of clergy who brought this up in some kind of Corps meeting. Since my splinter leader thought that Wierwille's answer was justified, I'm certain that he didn't intend it as a slam against Wierwille when he told the story. It seems obvious to me that my splinter leader requires his disciples to be just as blinded as we were in our affection for Wierwille.
I just think that the way he read the events he described proves that he is a programmed TWI tool.
I can easily relate to being subject to tools. In my case it was twisted disciples of our fearful splinter group leader. Once I had an experience that I think will forever give me an appreciation for the Lord's parable about the splinter and the beam. IMO unwitting tools have some form of beam in their own eye, whether they realize it or not.
I was working on a new walk-in cooler for our fearful leader with a 18 year old young man. We were cutting pieces of oriented strand board while putting up walls around where the cooller would be and I got a splinter in my eye. I went to the two men who were overseeing the project with tears running down the right side of my face from the splinter.
As they had been led into thinking that they were supreme as long as they kissed our fearful leader's butt, they made me stand there for at least two minutes while they finished up their oh-so-important overseeing jobs. I'm thinking, "OMG, just look at the gleam in their eye, and how much they enjoy me being in this predicament.
Finally, they brought me into the main house on the property. They were obviously really enjoying themselves, trying to get the splinter out, but they were unsuccessful. Those to puffed up little..... left the room and I was there with the overseers mother-in-law. As she watched (let's call this woman, LINDA) I got the splinter out of my own eye. Then to my amazement Linda said to me with a lot of attitude mind you,"That was a very large splinter in your eye Jeff." I didn't say anything except, "The splinter is out guys, I'm going back to work."
When I got back to work, the young man said something like," It sure was good for you that you had those two to help you with the splinter!"
I answered(while keeping my good humor to myself), "They couldn't help me, I had to do it for myself!" The poor kid looked shocked, and the next time I saw the overseer, he looked like a whipped puppy. hehehe
I wonder if that was a factor in the same man moving my wife and child out of my house and then telling me,"You are not welcome in fellowship until this shameful situation is resolved."
WHEN YOU ARE SUBJECT TO SPITEFUL TOOLS, THEY WILL HURT YOU.
Hi Jeff,
This is so sad. It really is. I am so sorry about what happened to you and to your family--and also for those two who didn't drop what they were doing and help you. I wish I could say I was super nice in TWI and didn't hurt people. I wish I could say that I was not like that. I can't. I have had to repent from the bottom of my heart for how I treated some people.
I was the twig/family coordinator my WOW year. Two girls--Me and another--then two guys. I loved one of my WOW brothers right off. He was musical-outgoing-funny as can be. I loved my sweet WOW sister. I could not STAND my other WOW brother. On sight I judged him as lacking. If I only knew then what I know now--it would have been different. I was so mean to him all year--by the end he just moved out. I would not even talk to him. I was a real (Insert any bad word). He didn't fit my idea of a good wayfer. I was awful to him--he tried so hard to please me. It makes me sick remembering it all.
It was about acting--or perfecting the outside. "Doing" TWI's warped version of Christianity. There was no real change from the heart. At least for many of us. No transformation. That has to come from the inside and shows outward. It is what sets us apart. You can't go around "Acting" righteous. You just become legalistic and cruel. God softens and changes our hearts because we know His goodness and mercy. He has to do that--no "Leader" can tell you how to "Act". That is what it becomes--a man pleasing act.
God is able to heal. I am thankful for His mercy--unworthy of it, but then again, it is not about me anymore. It really is about His amazing grace. His will, and His goodness which does lead us to repentance.
I hope for those who hurt you--repentance and mercy--they need it--as do we all!
I pray for GREAT healing goodness for you. You are so justified in your anger at the cruelty of it all. They just kept working???? We did kinda revel in other people's misery sometimes. Made our "Walk" seem more spiritual.
I've been thinking about tis some more. Just about being a tool that is.
Maybe if someone spends their religious youth and zeal on any organization with a hidden agenda and doctrines that they are a tool. The same might be said of being zealous for any organization with hidden, evil agendas. It doesn't much matter the nature of the organization; profesional, humanitarian, etc.
In my mind the most common reference to being a tool, is someone who fools THEMSELVES into thinking that they are something that they are not. For instance, a man who thinks he's a ladies man but all the girls calls him a tool behind his back. This applies IMO to either gender who is into SOMETHING, but in reality does not get it.
One of the keys for me right now in considering this matter is the question of blame. Does the individual DELIBERATELY LIE AND PROMOTE TWI's hidden agendas or not. Or were we SUCKERED into laying down our lives for a man like WIERWILLE who talked a real good game, but fed his lusts with the ministration of God's Word being the cover for his twisted and sick activities.
One of my biggest concerns right now is that the victims of TWI abuse might think that they were tools. I do not want people who I've come to be concerned for to blame themselves when before God the blame lies with TWI leadership who knew what they were doing when they turned the supposed ministration of the truth into the base and vile action of doing everything that they could to convince the duped to participate in the cruel system that they set up and controlled.
I do not feel shame for in times past promoting TWI when all that I did was believe their lies. I do feel guilt for the one woman who might have convinced me of what was really going on that I blew off though. I ask God for mercy for my stupidity, and I can't think about her without hoping and praying that she is o.k. How in that instance I was a TWI tool seems clear to me now, because it had a direct influence on another human being who in truth needed help. I have my doubts that at that time I could have really helped her if I had listened to her, but the fact that I spoke of God's Word being separate and above the actions of men while in an academic sense might be true, the fact that my words might have actually pushed her deeper into the TWI cesspool is hard to face.
You see folks, IMO we cannot speak about the "good things" that were in TWI without being able to come to grips with the plain truth that even though we learned some bible, that TWI was a stinky cesspool that served Wierwille's lusts, including his sexual gratification and his desire for greatness.
The doctrine was flawed, even when it comes to things that I used to think have not been understood since the first century. Some of those things I now to consider dangerous doctrines that only served to AID in the continued existence of the hidden cesspool of TWI practices. One clear example to me of that is how dispensationalism was applied. As it was applied it only served to negate many clear biblical references that if believed, would have helped many people see what TWI truly was. Now IMO the clear references to the the price that wickedness would cost the folks that did evil will yet be fulfilled. But NNNOOO, in TWI the gospels were not written to us, so even today TWI tools think that Wierwille was doing good when he abused women and girls while claiming he was only doing the things that God had called him to do. Or even worse for them, (the tools that is) they do not know how to face the truth that they consented to these vile acts of Wierwille's because Wierwille had made them HIS TOOLS!
Going back to my first post in this thread, IT IS NO EASY THING TO COME TO TERMS WITH HAVING BEEN A TWI TOOL!!!
I've been trying to decide whether or not I would start a new thread or not for this post. I decided to not start a new thread because this post is about being a TWI tool. It's just that I've been thinking about some folks who even though they've generally been the most abusive of all TWI folks, I think that in the long run they will end up being the biggest tools too.
Here is why.....
I'm certain that within TWI leadership that there was and is a steady undercurrent of thinking that amounts to nothing much more than vainglory that brings about strife.
I remember once when DWBH shared that he thought that EVERY MEMBER of leadership thought that if only they were picked to lead TWI instead of LCM that they could have saved the ministry. Another poster responded,"Not Every one." Cripes, when even the folks defending leadership admit that strife is rampant within leadership and the best retort they have is "NOT EVERY ONE" THERE IS IMO A BIG FRIGGIN PROBLEM.
I remember Uncle Harry sharing with a little ironey that a lot of people thought that they could do his job in TWI better than him. Personally, since he appears to be at the root of Wierwille's perversions along with H.A. and other very top leadership I will never, ever think fondly of Uncle Harry ever again. But even he thought that selfish ambition was present in spades within leadership ranks.
Here is how I think Wierwille and Geer have played TWI leadershipp as the BIGGEST TOOLS AND FOOLS OF ALL.
I'm certain of these things as I can be. But since so many of you greasespotters have seen and heard more of TWI leadership than I ever have, I would appreciate some feedback.
Wierwille and Geer knew a long time ago that leadership was a group of selfish glory hounds. In part that is how they could cow or corrupt them into playing TWI's abuse at many different levels game. I think that for them and other very tip-top leadership they just used leadership's own faults to play TWI leadership like concerto masters. (That use of master is not in any way related to Jesus Christ, but simply a master manipulator.)
Didn't Wierwille supposedly give Geer his last will and testament? I heard this from someone who Wierwille said it to, that he would do this before he went to Scotland shortly before his death.
I've got some news for you leadership fools. There is no prize that Geer or anyone else will give you. I know first hand that my former splinter group leader looks for such things.
IT IS A BIG FRIGGIN LIE. Wierwille, Geer, Lcm, and probably Rosie just wanted to promote this b.s. to keep you puffed up self seeking leadership types in line. I know that many of you have been thinking such things. But you've been played even worse than the rest of us who were fooled. You leadership types have blood on your hands too for at the very least going along with the various types of abuse that you saw.
Because of your unrepentant guilt, I believe that you will in the long run prove to be the BIGGEST TOOLS OF ALL.!!!
Just a little follow up before I have to leave for work.
How could TWI leadership not be the biggest tools of them all!? I'd really like to know.
In order to rise in the ranks, it looks like they've had to surrender the most valuable of all things IMO; a clear conscience.
I respect the few that I've heard about who seem to have come to honest terms with what they've done to people, heck who hasn't hurt people in their life?
But to give it all up for lies by Wierwille, LCM, and Geer etc., what a waste.
But to be played like them...... Wierwille and cast has played on the very weaknesses that they knew were in TWI leadership. And all to cover TWI ASSets. And to be rewarded by the Lord himself the same as any other garden variety pervert enabler let alone the ones that were corrupted into being FELLOW PERVERTS. Even as they fool and/or were fooled into thinking that they were God's elit.
WHAT A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE FATE TO BE FOOLED INTO CHOOSING AS ONE'S OWN.
p.s. I have to go to work now, but as far as TWI goes I think that I may be a long, long way from "mellowing out."
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
6
22
8
Popular Days
Aug 19
21
Aug 20
13
Aug 18
11
Aug 14
7
Top Posters In This Topic
oldiesman 6 posts
waysider 6 posts
JeffSjo 22 posts
cheranne 8 posts
Popular Days
Aug 19 2008
21 posts
Aug 20 2008
13 posts
Aug 18 2008
11 posts
Aug 14 2008
7 posts
geisha779
God gave us the Holy Spirit to help us seperate truth from error. God expects us to use our brain. He also expects us to have His heart--for those hurt and without.
In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. C.S. Lewis
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
Do you know how little the amount of CYANIDE it took to turn the "Jonestown koolaid" (flavoraid) from a refreshing drink into a deadly poison? Not a lot. Probably didn't affect the taste, even. Take the ventilation system of a skyscraper, with ionized, filtered air. Clean and pure. Introduce a TINY amount of SARIN to the air, and the people will all suddenly drop dead. Why? Because when something pure has small amounts of something DANGEROUS and DEADLY added to it, adulterating its contents, the entire substance is compromised. Would you be willing to drink a liter of spring water that had a 1/2 ounce of arsenic added? If so, do so in the lobby of the hospital, or you'll never make it in time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
TWI was a great big crap sandwich, and the more bread you had, the less crap you had to taste.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
Oldies,
I don't know whether it's because you can't admit that you were misled or because of some other reason, but it's true that you were used by TWI.
As I was.
As Rascal was.
As White Dove was.
As WordWolf was.
Did we learn things useful to us in later life? Some would disagree, but I say yes.
Were our hearts in the right place? Except for those who actually got into TWI for power and/or sex, again I say yes.
Did the people who witnessed to us intentionally mislead us? For the most part, I would say no, because they, too, were misled.
But it doesn't matter whether you're the screw, the screwdriver bit that drives the screw, the drill housing that holds the screwdriver bit, the robotic arm that holds the housing, or the computer that controls the arm, you're still a tool accomplishing the ends of the person in charge.
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Arsenic poisoning is, indeed, an interesting parallel.
If I remember correctly, the currently acceptable level for arsenic content in drinking water is 10 parts per BILLION.
( I think that figure may have been revised recently to an even lower level.)
The important thing to remember regarding arsenic is that it has a residual effect.
Once you ingest it, it stays in your body and accumulates unless specific medical measures are taken to remove it.
That's the concept the two little old ladies used to poison their victims in Arsenic And Old Lace.
On an interesting side note, prior to the introduction of penicillin after WWII, arsenic was thought to be a viable treatment for syphilis, a sexually transmitted disease which, if left unchecked, can express itself in latter stages as dementia, delusions of grandieur, irrational behavior and tumors throughout the body.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
Ain't that the truth!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I can easily relate to being subject to tools. In my case it was twisted disciples of our fearful splinter group leader. Once I had an experience that I think will forever give me an appreciation for the Lord's parable about the splinter and the beam. IMO unwitting tools have some form of beam in their own eye, whether they realize it or not.
I was working on a new walk-in cooler for our fearful leader with a 18 year old young man. We were cutting pieces of oriented strand board while putting up walls around where the cooller would be and I got a splinter in my eye. I went to the two men who were overseeing the project with tears running down the right side of my face from the splinter.
As they had been led into thinking that they were supreme as long as they kissed our fearful leader's butt, they made me stand there for at least two minutes while they finished up their oh-so-important overseeing jobs. I'm thinking, "OMG, just look at the gleam in their eye, and how much they enjoy me being in this predicament.
Finally, they brought me into the main house on the property. They were obviously really enjoying themselves, trying to get the splinter out, but they were unsuccessful. Those to puffed up little..... left the room and I was there with the overseers mother-in-law. As she watched (let's call this woman, LINDA) I got the splinter out of my own eye. Then to my amazement Linda said to me with a lot of attitude mind you,"That was a very large splinter in your eye Jeff." I didn't say anything except, "The splinter is out guys, I'm going back to work."
When I got back to work, the young man said something like," It sure was good for you that you had those two to help you with the splinter!"
I answered(while keeping my good humor to myself), "They couldn't help me, I had to do it for myself!" The poor kid looked shocked, and the next time I saw the overseer, he looked like a whipped puppy. hehehe
I wonder if that was a factor in the same man moving my wife and child out of my house and then telling me,"You are not welcome in fellowship until this shameful situation is resolved."
WHEN YOU ARE SUBJECT TO SPITEFUL TOOLS, THEY WILL HURT YOU.
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Seth R.
Hi JeffSjo,
It's probably one of the funnier titles for a thread, as such humor is a great way to face some of these pressing concepts. What you have outlined is one of the more honest attempts to come to grips with the "cesspool" of TWI doctrine and practice. Certainly it is painful to face facts that we were all "Tools" in one way or another, leaders from afar promising answers they never intended to answer. We trusted these elders and hoped that one day our enlightenment would come, their answer was take the class, or go on an advance, or attend the ROA, or go WOW, or go Corps, or goto a family camp, or advanced class, or university of life, or the way college program. Use any of the programs of TWI to build that belief and answer those questions, did it work? Were we just fooling ourselves?
My answer today is for me is I was a fool and believed the TWI propaganda for longer then I was involved. I was introduced to TWI around 1980'ish I believed the lie from the start, because it felt so good. I was given the Blue book by my Mom in 1984'ish I read it with a "I don't get it" guilt trip, so I read it more, the more I read it the more I thought I understood. The Camera analogy being one of the most childish and stupid yarns VPW ever spun. But I kept at it and after seeing things (I wanted to see) happen I decided God had called me, (it's hard to recognize psychosis when you are in the middle of it) so by 1987 I saved enough money to fly to Eureka Ca. We held a "miracle class" at Sky Wood's house, it was a miracle because they never had enough to run a class in Eureka for 10 years or something. Every freak and nut case within 50 miles showed up at that class, looking back now I should have packed my bags and headed back to New Jersey after the first session. I stuck around TWI until I was asked by Frank Pavlicka (spell?) to not come back to fellowship until I got my stuff together, that was about November 1994 I left Newport News Va. in December '94.
I date my belief in TWI doctrine from about 1980'ish and I date my TWI involvement from the time I moved to Eureka, Late August 1987 to the Dec 1994 about 7 years, but it didn't end my belief in TWI's doctrine, for that it took until May of 2000. So I guess my belief in TWI's doctrine was about 20 years, wow I just realized that, 20 years of my life spent wasted on chasing a lie. It's no wonder many people here resist when confronted with the truth, they are afraid to face the possibility that all the time they invested was for naught, at least when it comes to TWI's doctrine.
So as far as how you feel about one person you didn't help. I understand, I was part of a super successful WOW team in '92-'93 in Ft. Myers Fla. we ran more classes then any other on the field that year. It's sickening to me to think of how many lives we screwed up by that. I want to contact them all and make my amends but I threw out all my records from TWI long ago and I can't remember who lived where or what their names are. Maybe Mark S. my family and team coordinator still has those records but I doubt he'd be willing to allow me to have a copy.
Thanks for the post and I hope I didn't derail the thread.
Seth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
A rusty nail
Down straight into the head
Infected brains
Communication failed
Turn off the light
Put out the fire
Free your mind free your deepest side
Red is the blood
Under each kind of skin
Green is the hope
But shame has no color
Turn off the light
Put out the fire
Free your mind free your deepest side
Never look back
Life is ahead
But don't forget your way home
Lyric from the group Labyrinth,song Rusty Nail.
Edited by OKLAHOMA CITY WOW 78Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Seth R.,
I would say that you not only didn't derail the thread, but seem to get it very well. Thank you for your feedback. I hope that things are well with you and yours now.
Sincerely,
JEFF
Thank you Oklahoma City WOW 78,
Those lyrics talk about moving on, and they seem to fit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Raf,
The more that I think about your post, the more that it's working for me.
I've been thinking about an old poem entitled (I think) "Love is Brown." The moral of the poem is that we have to deal with yucky stuff if we are going to help people.
I think that we have to deal with yucky stuff if we're going to help anybody deal with TWI also. To put the blinders on IMO is like WILLINGLY PUTTING A BEAM IN OUR OWN EYES, and then we won't be able to really love anyone. hhhmmm
I don't like the crap in the crap sandwich, but it sure was there!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I really don't want this thread to have to retitled "How to deal with TWI tools" because pointing fingers is far easier than actually helping someone with a problem.
It does seem self evident to me that if someone is incapable of dealing with THE FACTS of TWI history that there is a good chance that they may be somebody's tool.
From me, if I was willing to say, "God will judge" in the face of much testimony and Wierwille's own words while trying to ignore things that happened I think that I would be a TWI tool.
For those that not inclined to believe the real OBVIOUS scriptural remedies to sexual abuse and abuse of power there is still much that we could agree on by just recognizing sick, twisted behavior for what it is.
The report that I heard of Wierwille saying "God will judge" as his answer to being confronted with Way Corps sexual misconduct I consider 100% reliable, and here is why. It came from my splinter group's fearful leader, and the way he said it was made it obvious that in HIS MIND Wierwille was justified in blowing off a member of clergy who brought this up in some kind of Corps meeting. Since my splinter leader thought that Wierwille's answer was justified, I'm certain that he didn't intend it as a slam against Wierwille when he told the story. It seems obvious to me that my splinter leader requires his disciples to be just as blinded as we were in our affection for Wierwille.
I just think that the way he read the events he described proves that he is a programmed TWI tool.
(edited for grammar)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Hi Jeff,
This is so sad. It really is. I am so sorry about what happened to you and to your family--and also for those two who didn't drop what they were doing and help you. I wish I could say I was super nice in TWI and didn't hurt people. I wish I could say that I was not like that. I can't. I have had to repent from the bottom of my heart for how I treated some people.
I was the twig/family coordinator my WOW year. Two girls--Me and another--then two guys. I loved one of my WOW brothers right off. He was musical-outgoing-funny as can be. I loved my sweet WOW sister. I could not STAND my other WOW brother. On sight I judged him as lacking. If I only knew then what I know now--it would have been different. I was so mean to him all year--by the end he just moved out. I would not even talk to him. I was a real (Insert any bad word). He didn't fit my idea of a good wayfer. I was awful to him--he tried so hard to please me. It makes me sick remembering it all.
It was about acting--or perfecting the outside. "Doing" TWI's warped version of Christianity. There was no real change from the heart. At least for many of us. No transformation. That has to come from the inside and shows outward. It is what sets us apart. You can't go around "Acting" righteous. You just become legalistic and cruel. God softens and changes our hearts because we know His goodness and mercy. He has to do that--no "Leader" can tell you how to "Act". That is what it becomes--a man pleasing act.
God is able to heal. I am thankful for His mercy--unworthy of it, but then again, it is not about me anymore. It really is about His amazing grace. His will, and His goodness which does lead us to repentance.
I hope for those who hurt you--repentance and mercy--they need it--as do we all!
I pray for GREAT healing goodness for you. You are so justified in your anger at the cruelty of it all. They just kept working???? We did kinda revel in other people's misery sometimes. Made our "Walk" seem more spiritual.
That is a general "WE". I was at times a TOOL.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Geisha779,
I think that anyone that is honest can relate to being a tool.
Thank you for your feedback and your kindness.
JEFF
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I've been thinking about tis some more. Just about being a tool that is.
Maybe if someone spends their religious youth and zeal on any organization with a hidden agenda and doctrines that they are a tool. The same might be said of being zealous for any organization with hidden, evil agendas. It doesn't much matter the nature of the organization; profesional, humanitarian, etc.
In my mind the most common reference to being a tool, is someone who fools THEMSELVES into thinking that they are something that they are not. For instance, a man who thinks he's a ladies man but all the girls calls him a tool behind his back. This applies IMO to either gender who is into SOMETHING, but in reality does not get it.
One of the keys for me right now in considering this matter is the question of blame. Does the individual DELIBERATELY LIE AND PROMOTE TWI's hidden agendas or not. Or were we SUCKERED into laying down our lives for a man like WIERWILLE who talked a real good game, but fed his lusts with the ministration of God's Word being the cover for his twisted and sick activities.
One of my biggest concerns right now is that the victims of TWI abuse might think that they were tools. I do not want people who I've come to be concerned for to blame themselves when before God the blame lies with TWI leadership who knew what they were doing when they turned the supposed ministration of the truth into the base and vile action of doing everything that they could to convince the duped to participate in the cruel system that they set up and controlled.
I do not feel shame for in times past promoting TWI when all that I did was believe their lies. I do feel guilt for the one woman who might have convinced me of what was really going on that I blew off though. I ask God for mercy for my stupidity, and I can't think about her without hoping and praying that she is o.k. How in that instance I was a TWI tool seems clear to me now, because it had a direct influence on another human being who in truth needed help. I have my doubts that at that time I could have really helped her if I had listened to her, but the fact that I spoke of God's Word being separate and above the actions of men while in an academic sense might be true, the fact that my words might have actually pushed her deeper into the TWI cesspool is hard to face.
You see folks, IMO we cannot speak about the "good things" that were in TWI without being able to come to grips with the plain truth that even though we learned some bible, that TWI was a stinky cesspool that served Wierwille's lusts, including his sexual gratification and his desire for greatness.
The doctrine was flawed, even when it comes to things that I used to think have not been understood since the first century. Some of those things I now to consider dangerous doctrines that only served to AID in the continued existence of the hidden cesspool of TWI practices. One clear example to me of that is how dispensationalism was applied. As it was applied it only served to negate many clear biblical references that if believed, would have helped many people see what TWI truly was. Now IMO the clear references to the the price that wickedness would cost the folks that did evil will yet be fulfilled. But NNNOOO, in TWI the gospels were not written to us, so even today TWI tools think that Wierwille was doing good when he abused women and girls while claiming he was only doing the things that God had called him to do. Or even worse for them, (the tools that is) they do not know how to face the truth that they consented to these vile acts of Wierwille's because Wierwille had made them HIS TOOLS!
Going back to my first post in this thread, IT IS NO EASY THING TO COME TO TERMS WITH HAVING BEEN A TWI TOOL!!!
(EDITED FOR GRAMMAR)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I've been trying to decide whether or not I would start a new thread or not for this post. I decided to not start a new thread because this post is about being a TWI tool. It's just that I've been thinking about some folks who even though they've generally been the most abusive of all TWI folks, I think that in the long run they will end up being the biggest tools too.
Here is why.....
I'm certain that within TWI leadership that there was and is a steady undercurrent of thinking that amounts to nothing much more than vainglory that brings about strife.
I remember once when DWBH shared that he thought that EVERY MEMBER of leadership thought that if only they were picked to lead TWI instead of LCM that they could have saved the ministry. Another poster responded,"Not Every one." Cripes, when even the folks defending leadership admit that strife is rampant within leadership and the best retort they have is "NOT EVERY ONE" THERE IS IMO A BIG FRIGGIN PROBLEM.
I remember Uncle Harry sharing with a little ironey that a lot of people thought that they could do his job in TWI better than him. Personally, since he appears to be at the root of Wierwille's perversions along with H.A. and other very top leadership I will never, ever think fondly of Uncle Harry ever again. But even he thought that selfish ambition was present in spades within leadership ranks.
Here is how I think Wierwille and Geer have played TWI leadershipp as the BIGGEST TOOLS AND FOOLS OF ALL.
I'm certain of these things as I can be. But since so many of you greasespotters have seen and heard more of TWI leadership than I ever have, I would appreciate some feedback.
Wierwille and Geer knew a long time ago that leadership was a group of selfish glory hounds. In part that is how they could cow or corrupt them into playing TWI's abuse at many different levels game. I think that for them and other very tip-top leadership they just used leadership's own faults to play TWI leadership like concerto masters. (That use of master is not in any way related to Jesus Christ, but simply a master manipulator.)
Didn't Wierwille supposedly give Geer his last will and testament? I heard this from someone who Wierwille said it to, that he would do this before he went to Scotland shortly before his death.
I've got some news for you leadership fools. There is no prize that Geer or anyone else will give you. I know first hand that my former splinter group leader looks for such things.
IT IS A BIG FRIGGIN LIE. Wierwille, Geer, Lcm, and probably Rosie just wanted to promote this b.s. to keep you puffed up self seeking leadership types in line. I know that many of you have been thinking such things. But you've been played even worse than the rest of us who were fooled. You leadership types have blood on your hands too for at the very least going along with the various types of abuse that you saw.
Because of your unrepentant guilt, I believe that you will in the long run prove to be the BIGGEST TOOLS OF ALL.!!!
TWI LEADERSHIP----- THE BIGGEST TOOLS OF ALL!!!
(edited for spelling and clarity)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Just a little follow up before I have to leave for work.
How could TWI leadership not be the biggest tools of them all!? I'd really like to know.
In order to rise in the ranks, it looks like they've had to surrender the most valuable of all things IMO; a clear conscience.
I respect the few that I've heard about who seem to have come to honest terms with what they've done to people, heck who hasn't hurt people in their life?
But to give it all up for lies by Wierwille, LCM, and Geer etc., what a waste.
But to be played like them...... Wierwille and cast has played on the very weaknesses that they knew were in TWI leadership. And all to cover TWI ASSets. And to be rewarded by the Lord himself the same as any other garden variety pervert enabler let alone the ones that were corrupted into being FELLOW PERVERTS. Even as they fool and/or were fooled into thinking that they were God's elit.
WHAT A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE FATE TO BE FOOLED INTO CHOOSING AS ONE'S OWN.
p.s. I have to go to work now, but as far as TWI goes I think that I may be a long, long way from "mellowing out."
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.