You really caught my eye

[Twinky]

I posted elsewhere about the loss of VPW's eye and was asked by another visitor to the Cafe to open this for discussion. Apparently the reason for removal isn't widely known.

It was put about that he had suffered so much during the filming of PFAL, what with the bright lights and all.

But I was told by Rev J0hn Rexn0lds, Coordinator of International Outreach, with whom I had worked a lot of time, that in fact the eye that was removed was injured as a result a fish hook that he got in his eye when he was off fishing with the BoT on a "ministry planning meeting." The meeting obviously took place in a river where he was washing some sins away or being baptized or something (LOL).

The injured eye was not removed due to damage caused by the filming (even though it may have been damaged during the filming).

Don't know if JRR was present at the BoT meeting and it was long before he himself was appointed to the BoT (but he was a very early Corpsman and had been around for many years). JRR certainly worked very very closely with H0ward All3n and no doubt if JRR was not there, H0ward would have told him.

There may be other people posting here who have been around for a very long time, who could corroborate the story, if this had been made known to them. Sunesis? DWBH? I have to say that I had no doubt about JRR's explanation, either then or now.

But as well as that, I don't doubt that filming under bright lights may have caused injury in the OTHER eye, or some damage which may have led to cancer.

[Sunesis]

Very interesting. I have never heard that. If its true, of course it would be kept hush-hush - don't want the man of gawd for the world looking like an idiot and doing something stupid like most humans do now and then.

I knew JRR when he was on staff his interim year, then in residence at the same place. He was one of the most nicest, sweetest people in TWI I have ever met. He had truly what we called back then, a great heart. He was also one of the meekest and humble men in residence. He was just a sweet, wonderful guy. I always wondered how the heck he ended up on the BOT - seriously.

But, he didn't last long and was let go due to "health reasons." I never believed that was the whole truth. I believe he was not mean enough to survive RFR, and was probably too honest and wouldn't go along with something or other. From what I know of JRR, I would tend to believe his account.

I mean, all of a sudden, there had never been any talk of a diseased eye, no calls for prayer, etc. And all of a sudden, out of the blue, VP arrives home one lovely sunny weekend with no eye? I always thought that was strange.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Sunesis

[George Aar]

There was a doctor here in the Seattle area that looked at Mr. Wierwille before the eye was removed.

And while the doctor wasn't about to discuss a patient's condition with anybody, it should be noted that

this particular doctor was an ONCOLOGIST.

And he did tell me -sort of in passing - that Mr. Wierwille was NOT a healthy man at that point.

Doesn't sound like a fishhook injury to me. Maybe this story was just one of a number of "cover" stories that was floated at the time?

[Twinky]

Sunesis, I really liked JRR too. I know many people were afraid of him, but he really had a tremendous heart for people generally and for IO and although he could blow up at people if he thought they were slacking off or not doing things properly, he was also very kind. I think he was badly treated by the BoT.

He had nothing to gain by telling me this story. I can't remember how it came about that he told me. It was quite natural in the circs. It was in response to something that I'd said, which included something about the "burning the eyes" story and he said, "No, that wasn't it at all, it was a fish hook," and told me what I have recounted here.

George: maybe it was a cover story. But it's one that only just seems to be coming to light - as opposed to the "burning the eyes for PFAL" story which was widely circulated.

Anyway, George, why was he seeing a doctor in SEATTLE for oncology?? But if they had gone there for a fishing trip...

[dmiller]

Docvic used to come up here to Minnesota for fishing trips. They had some lodge they rented northwest of me here (I forget the name of it now) and if I remember correctly, it was a bot *planning* session for them at the same time.

Maybe (if the story is right), it happened up here.

Edited August 12, 2008 by dmiller

[Watered Garden]

Didn't somebody just post a link to his death certificate?

VPW died of metastatic ocular melanoma. As I'm sure you all know, malignant melanoma is a vicious cancer that usually starts as a weird looking freckle or mole on the skin. That is what we call the primary malignancy. When it metastasizes, it can go internally into various organs, in fact, just about anywhere.

However, melanoma can also ORIGINATE in an internal organ, i.e., the stomach, brain, wherever. VP's melanoma was a very unusual, but not terribly uncommon primary ocular melanoma. These occur in the eye, and at that time, the only possible treatment was removal of the entire globe. Nowadays, they can put a tiny, tiny plaque of radioactive material right on the tumor that will stop it in its tracks, though the hapless patient may still lose his vision.

Unfortunately, VP's eye was not removed before his cancer metastasized to his liver and ultimately caused his demise.

The death certificate states he died of metastatic melanoma, I believe. So if I have made a short story long, hopefully I've explained a little bit.

WG

[dmiller]

Watered Garden ---

I posted a picture of it over on the suicide thread that I got from the front pages of GSC.

[doojable]

It was a common story around twi that vp had injured his eyes in the bright lights during filming PLAF. That was long long before anything else regarding the removal of his eyes. (I think it was to make him look like some half martyr/half superMOG in the eyes of us half-wits.)

That story and the fishy fish-hook story were most likely used to cover for his melanoma. While it's entirely possible that JRR believed that story - it doesn't mean that he didn't spread a lie - albeit unbeknownst to him.

It's actually quite ridiculous how many hoops these mooks jumped through to maintain the semblance of holiness. It's especially embarrassing in light of the fact that it was touted that as a research ministry the "doctrine" would change as more was learned.

[anotherDan]

My position on the matter is "whatever."

It's a matter for Grease Spots.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

I suppose that when Vic taught that cancer was a devil spirit, he never imagined that he would fall victim to it himself...and of course, admitting he had cancer would present some "difficulties" with his doctrine...thus, the various stories.

[HAPe4me]

I never heard the fishhook story before, and it seems highly unlikely to me that such an accident would lead to removal of an eye immediately. Especially the size of hooks we use in the MN northwoods.

a corps grad I knew who had only one eye told me she loved VP because now he too knew what she lived with most all her life. (hmm, I wonder what became of Nancy anyway).

Eye always was given the impression that the I was diseased, but the nature of the disease was never revealed. In my experiences, it was "assumed" to be a late developing issue from the filming. uhhuh, 10 years late. We always winked at that explanation.

~HAP

[waysider]

In general, the category of sunlight that is most suspected of contributing to this rare form of cancer is UVB.

UVB has a wavelength range of 280-315nm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet

Does anyone here know any specifics regarding the lighting used to film the class?

Comparing the spectral values might be helpful.

[waterbuffalo]

In general, the category of sunlight that is most suspected of contributing to this rare form of cancer is UVB.

UVB has a wavelength range of 280-315nm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet

Does anyone here know any specifics regarding the lighting used to film the class?

Comparing the spectral values might be helpful.

My thought exactly, waysider. Are they the same?

[Ron G.]

In general, the category of sunlight that is most suspected of contributing to this rare form of cancer is UVB.

UVB has a wavelength range of 280-315nm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet

Does anyone here know any specifics regarding the lighting used to film the class?

Comparing the spectral values might be helpful.

I think I read that a 2,500 watt xenon lamp equipped with quartz optics could do such damage, but I'm not sure that's what was used to light the studio for VPW in the filming of his class.

There are lamps that are designed to produce UV. Remember the lights they used to use to disinfect bowling shoes? Maybe those are still used. I don't know, but that's usually done on purpose and ordinary studio lights don't have those characteristics.

[tonto]

They disinfect bowling shoes? Really?

VP visited our campus (Rome City) frequently during the last year of his life and never once mentioned a fish hook and for that matter never mentioned cancer. He talked about the damage done to his eyes during the filming of the wonder class (thanks waysider) and even passed the eye around so we could admire the handiwork of the thing. No kidding. I remember being surprised it wasn't round...it was just a curved front piece. Perhaps like a codpiece?

[doojable]

...and the plot sickens...

Edited August 13, 2008 by doojable

[rhino]

Once again I have to enlighten you guys ...

clearly ... light bulbs introduce devil spirits ...

dispose of your bulbs and get the CFL's ... or you will burn ...

lucifer ... angel of light bulb (figure of omission)

the fishing story may have been floated to cover for the visit to the exorcist oncologist

which reminds me of the Louisiana friend of mine ... Ronnie ... Boudro in

his wife fell over board

and he kept on fishing . ..

they found her a couple days later

she was all bloated and just covered with big blue crabs ...

so we asked him if he was going to bury her

or have her cremated ...

he and a couple fisherman friends said ....

heck no ....

we're gonna float her again tomorrow .... :o

Edited August 14, 2008 by rhino

[Ron G.]

They disinfect bowling shoes? Really?

VP visited our campus (Rome City) frequently during the last year of his life and never once mentioned a fish hook and for that matter never mentioned cancer. He talked about the damage done to his eyes during the filming of the wonder class (thanks waysider) and even passed the eye around so we could admire the handiwork of the thing. No kidding. I remember being surprised it wasn't round...it was just a curved front piece. Perhaps like a codpiece?

It's truly an honor to know the MOG is keeping an eye out for you.

I'm envious.

...and yes, in bowling alleys the used to have little lamps with lavendar colored lights and they put the rental bowling shoes on it to disinfect them before replacing them on the shelf.

EDITED TO ADD THIS...

I did a google and came up with this reference among many.

"Ultraviolet (UV) disinfection units operate by exposing the water to ultraviolet light. This will destroy most bacteria and inactivate viruses, but the process does not remove metals, salts, fibers or minerals. Some manufacturers assert that their UV units will also destroy spores and cysts, but the Environmental Protection Agency feels there is not enough evidence to support these claims......blah blah blah"

Evidently UV emitting lights are still sold for that purpose. They also claim it deodorizes the shoes. I haven't seen this since the 60's, but then I haven't been in many bowling alleys since then, either.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Ron G.

[waysider]

Here's what really caught my--errrr--attention.

When he was passing around his prosthetic eye, his actually eye had, of course, already been removed.

So, he knew at this point in time that he had ocular melanoma, though he possibly was not aware it had spread to his liver.

Yet, he continued to promote the story about the lights in PLAF (The Wonder Class)

Sounds like we were the ones who got snagged with the hook.

Edited August 14, 2008 by waysider

[doojable]

Waysider - are you suggesting that der victoid deliberately ...

LIED????

[Twinky]

So now we have ... a cover story for the cover story?

Sounds gross, passing the glass eye around.

But yes, Waysider, it would have been a fine opportunity to give a real account of why he needed a glass eye instead of presenting some story that was not true. What, did he think his loyal students could not pray and believe with him for healing? More like, would have to change a shedload of doctrine, or expose himself for being, at heart, an unbeliever.

When was the eye removed and the glass eye fitted? What were the Way Corps at that time told? Who was in rez then?

[Mark Clarke]

Not a cover story for the cover story, so much as choosing a better cover story. He couldn't publicly announce he had cancer, since he taught that cancer was a "devil spirit." One cover story that circled a little bit was the fish hook story. But the PFAL filming lights is better for his Manogod image, so eventually that was the one that became "official."

Of course this is my opinion, and there is no proof that would stand up in a court of law. :)

[Twinky]

Mark, so you've heard this fish hook story already then. When was it circulating, when did you hear it?

And does anyone know when the "burning the eyes out for PFAL" story started circulating?

[Ham]

The eye-burning claims were made in twlil..

[Linda Z]

I did some research on this when this discussion came up before and found that, in fact, the type of lighting used during the filiming of PFAL could cause sufficient trauma to later result in ocular melanoma.

David Anderson, who was present during the filming and with whom I spoke about this (and who by the way is not a VPW cheerleader by any means), said that VPW had a great deal of trouble with his eyes during the filming because of the bright, hot lights used.

I also seem to recall Mrs. Wierwille talking about this long before the cancer was discovered, saying that he had to put cold compresses on his eyes after each filming session because the lights were burning his eyes so badly.

No doubt, twi used this info to feed VPW's image as a hero and certainly did not want to focus on the AC doctrine of cancer being caused by DSs, but the fact remains that one can get ocular cancer in this way.

I was on staff at HQ when VP lost his eye and subsequently died. I never heard any story about a fish hook. Where John Reyn*lds got that, I don't know. I'm not saying he lied; maybe someone lied to him and he believed it.