...As far as i know, he wasn't a card carrying member of the nazi party...but everything about him...what he believed, his lifestyle, his "apologies for Hitler", his genetic heritage...I think it's a legitimate question.
His total disdain for for anyone who wouldn't "bow down to him"...what do you think?
...As far as i know, he wasn't a card carrying member of the nazi party...but everything about him...what he believed, his lifestyle, his "apologies for Hitler", <B>his genetic heritage</B>...I think it's a legitimate question.
His total disdain for for anyone who wouldn't "bow down to him"...what do you think?
Was he a nazi?
As for his lifestyle and his "apologies for Hitler, I know nothing and wouldn't venture an opinion, however being of Rootin' Teuton heritage DOES NOT qualify someone as being Nazi.
That's a dreadful stretch, Groucho.
BTW, I'm NOT Germanic but of Scottish heritage, so I don't have a dog in that hunt, either.
I'm just sayin' you can't make that kind of judgement.
If you're talking about Wierwille being proud of his Teutonic heritage, you have a good point.
But VP went a lot beyond his Teutonic roots in showing his 'naziness'. He actually was sympathetic to Hitler's philosophy and actions, and has actually said that the U.S. fought on the wrong side in WWII. His views re: Jews didn't exactly dismantle any accusations re: his Nazi proclivities either.
P.S., By the way, as seemingly indicated by the picture, does the Latin phrase "NVNC ID VIDES, NVNC NE VIDES" indicate "I came, I saw, I picked my nose?"
I've heard quite a few say that the U.S. should have sided with the Axis then while others claim that we shouldn't have been involved in Europe at all.
The logic being that had we sided with the axis, then Soviet communism would have been destroyed. I'm of the opinion, however, that had that happened, then we would have entered into a cold war with the Axis that, IMHO, would have been a LOT uglier than what we had with the soviets.
I don't know what Wierwilles logic was regarding that, but prior to the war, the Soviets and the Czarist Russians, before them, were every bit as anti semitic as the Nazis.
I don't know a whole lot about VPW and his views as I usually paid little attention to most of the rants and to this day, thank God I never followed thru and went into the corps. I ALMOST did, but, thankfully it never happened.
VPW could easily have had some opinions that were sympathetic to nazism and I'd be somewhat interested in knowing more about that. I was generally appalled at some of the bizarre statements LCM made, but don't remember VPW getting so convoluted in his statements...or at least he wasn't as loud with it, capturing my attention.
The Latin phrase is "Now you see it, now you don't" (more or less). I took Latin for several years from Jr. High school thru college and I used to sit and CRINGE (hair standing straight up) at VPW's occasional references to Latin. Remember when he said in PFAL the word "mortify" (from Mors; mortis = death) meant "blow to smithereens"?
LOLOLOL
The most recent thing I heard was how the old Rock Band "Iron Butterfly" were believers because "Inna Gadda Da Vida" was Latin for "In the Garden of Eden" (I think "In horto paradisi" would be close, but I don't know the word "Eden")....and this wasn't all that long ago coming from a CFFer...saying he heard it from "Doctor". I KID YOU NOT! The guy actually had the temerity to tell me that.
Anyway, I'm glad Groucho started this thread and am interested in some other folks "take" on this. I'm wondering what sort of apologies he made for Hitle as I never heard any of that.
There are certainly many similarities between Hitler's tactics and der victoid's ways.
In the first months of his chancellorship, Hitler began a concerted policy of "synchronization," forcing organizations, political parties, and state governments into line with Nazi goals and placing them under Nazi leadership. Culture, the economy, education, and law came under greater Nazi control. Trade unions were abolished and workers, employees, and employers were forced into Nazi organizations. By mid-July 1933, the Nazi party was the only political party permitted in Germany. The Reichstag (German parliament) became a rubber stamp for Hitler's dictatorship. The Fuehrer's will became the foundation for government policy.
...As far as i know, he wasn't a card carrying member of the nazi party...but everything about him...what he believed, his lifestyle, his "apologies for Hitler", his genetic heritage...I think it's a legitimate question.
His total disdain for for anyone who wouldn't "bow down to him"...what do you think?
Was he a nazi?
He was very much the opposite. Nazism is fascism and fascism is totalitarianism, i.e., more and more big government control over people's lives ... and less and less liberty. In contrast VP was a supporter of the U.S. Constitution, i.e. limited government free market system.
Americans should realize that politicians like Sen. Obama have more of a fascist slant in their politics than Dr. Wierwille ever had. Not Hitlerian type fascism, but a softer-type fascism wherein big government socialism slowly takes over every aspect of life. The National Socialist party was like the little froggie in the frying pan. ... Americans clamoring, demanding more and more big government "help" feeds these flames.
...As far as i know, he wasn't a card carrying member of the nazi party...but everything about him...what he believed, his lifestyle, his "apologies for Hitler", his genetic heritage...I think it's a legitimate question.
His total disdain for for anyone who wouldn't "bow down to him"...what do you think?
Was he a nazi?
Some people call that a proof by construction. If the theory fits all of the requirements, it's proved..
I don't know what all the requirements are, but you bring up a few good points.
1. His heritage. And he was damn proud of it..
2. He did carry the Myth of the Six Million, hoax of the twentieth century (I think) and Koestler's book, in his bookstore.. and denied, or greatly minimized the horrors of the Holocaust.. for that matter, he "demonized" Catholics, homosexuals, and others who didn't agree with his theology..
3. He subscribed to and promoted every lunatic fringe conspiracy theory, that served his purposes..
4. He surrounded himself with armed and consciousless goons who would pretty much do his bidding..
5. He claimed to have a basically *infallible* message..
I dunno. Personally, I think these points would suggest that he COULD be a Nazi..
others seem to be able to take these facts, roll them together, and come to the conclusion that he was some kinda manogawd..
Add to all this.. in ww2, he decided he'd be better off at the homefront, instead of going to war against da faderland..
gave some lame excuse like da lord would rather have him back in the good ole usa, where he could preach da word, chase church secretaries and the like.. start a significantly self-overrated organization following on the heels of the Jesus movement..
I always did wonder how he avoided the draft in WWII.
Do I think he was a card carrying Nazi? No. I think he was very sympathetic of them though. He was more of a white supremist I think.
But, if he had lived in Germany under Hitler, I think he would have been one of the first to enroll and put on the uniform. He would have been a proud Nazi I think..
He was very much the opposite. Nazism is fascism and fascism is totalitarianism, i.e., more and more big government control over people's lives ... and less and less liberty. In contrast VP was a supporter of the U.S. Constitution, i.e. limited government free market system.
..."...control over people's lives..." and you say Vic was the "opposite"? He may have paid lip service to the US constitution, but in practice, he ran his organization like a dictatorship. People were to replace their own ideas of truth with what the Victoid told them to believe...and like Hitler, he had no tolernace for dissension as his word was final.
Seems to me that controlling people without any regard to their well being is a nazi tactic and one that Wierwille knew well...and it was Wierwille himself, who made a big deal out of his German heritage...
...I can almost see him wearing the nazi uniform...goose stepping onto the motorcoach.
Apples and oranges. The difference between a religious organization and a military dictatorship is night and day.
Also forgot to mention that a tenet of Nazism is belief in Aryan superiority and Jewish inferiority. Contrast this to Dr. Wierwilles belief that all peoples are the same and come from the same bloodline (Adam and Eve), all are the same physically and mentally (formed and made the same) and spiritually all can be equal through belief in Christ and acceptance of Christ as Messiah (the new birth, Jews and Gentiles are the same body of Christ). Additionally, the Nazis hated, repudiated, killed and removed Jews from their presence; but Wierwille invited them in...
I never met the man but from what is described from VPW charecter he sound more like a nazi symphizer. He was not the only one before WW2 famous people like charles lindbergh where.
Was he a Nazi? No. Nothing about TWI reflected a belief in any sort of racial superiority/inferiority . Now WOW might be construed as a world domination viewpoint, but that's a stretch. As others have pointed out, VPW was patriotic in a highly conservative way, and was not in favor of communist or fascist governments.
OTOH, in a different time and place, could VPW have been one of Hitler's henchmen? I think yes. But it's an unfair question. And if you ask it, you also get to ask how many of the Way Corps would have been SS members. And how many of us followers would have cheered at the rallies. And we're back to where we started. I'm just glad most of us have learned something from our mistakes. I know I have.
Was he a Nazi? No. Nothing about TWI reflected a belief in any sort of racial superiority/inferiority . Now WOW might be construed as a world domination viewpoint, but that's a stretch. As others have pointed out, VPW was patriotic in a highly conservative way, and was not in favor of communist or fascist governments.
That's because he didn't want the government to have too much control, so that he could be in control in his own organization. Nevertheless, his tactics were similar, but within the context of TWI rather than political government.
That's because he didn't want the government to have too much control, so that he could be in control in his own organization.
that explains his little cursing and screaming debacle, ending with launching a Living Bible to the back of the brc because he didn't like how they handled Romans 13..
oh no. It's gotta be da ministry that is owed da money..
Was he a Nazi? No. Nothing about TWI reflected a belief in any sort of racial superiority/inferiority . Now WOW might be construed as a world domination viewpoint, but that's a stretch. As others have pointed out, VPW was patriotic in a highly conservative way, and was not in favor of communist or fascist governments.
OTOH, in a different time and place, could VPW have been one of Hitler's henchmen? I think yes. But it's an unfair question. And if you ask it, you also get to ask how many of the Way Corps would have been SS members. And how many of us followers would have cheered at the rallies. And we're back to where we started. I'm just glad most of us have learned something from our mistakes. I know I have.
I dunno about racial.. but the religious and spiritual superiority was in my opinion practically the same. It perseveres in *his* organization to this day.. the mighty prevailing household..
the thought of superiority is appealing to many, obviously including myself at one time or to some extent.
How many of the corps would have been ss? I'd have to say, some of them. Some of them carried out orders without question, thinking or conscience.. I met others who never could.
we all cheered at the rallies.. now it's a sickening thought for me..
Didn't he accuse Graham and Bright of being in cahoots with the government over this, so that the government could get *da money*, instead of it's supposed rightful destination, the hands of the mogsters of our day and time? That's kinda how I remember it..
TWI became much like the nazi party in it's practices of an over controlling leadership and controlling folks through fear and/or propoganda IN SPITE of the rhetoric that implied honest and open consideration of truth, and good intentions.
Even though some bad doctrine lines up a little with anti-semitism, that in itself DID NOT rise to the same level as nazi propoganda.
In terms of leadership style however, it seems both Dr. Wierwille and Adolph Hitler could be very petty, self-centered, and destructive of people's lives at any whim they felt on any given day.
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RumRunner
The "Myth of the Six Million?" The "Thirtheenth Tribe"? Go look up Memory of the camps on PBS
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/camp/
BHe was a freakin Nazi
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Spoudazo
In his dreams. Don't think they would have even taken him.
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GarthP2000
In so many ways, Grouch. In so many ways!
<_<
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Ron G.
As for his lifestyle and his "apologies for Hitler, I know nothing and wouldn't venture an opinion, however being of Rootin' Teuton heritage DOES NOT qualify someone as being Nazi.
That's a dreadful stretch, Groucho.
BTW, I'm NOT Germanic but of Scottish heritage, so I don't have a dog in that hunt, either.
I'm just sayin' you can't make that kind of judgement.
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GarthP2000
Ron,
If you're talking about Wierwille being proud of his Teutonic heritage, you have a good point.
But VP went a lot beyond his Teutonic roots in showing his 'naziness'. He actually was sympathetic to Hitler's philosophy and actions, and has actually said that the U.S. fought on the wrong side in WWII. His views re: Jews didn't exactly dismantle any accusations re: his Nazi proclivities either.
P.S., By the way, as seemingly indicated by the picture, does the Latin phrase "NVNC ID VIDES, NVNC NE VIDES" indicate "I came, I saw, I picked my nose?"
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Ron G.
Garth,
I've heard quite a few say that the U.S. should have sided with the Axis then while others claim that we shouldn't have been involved in Europe at all.
The logic being that had we sided with the axis, then Soviet communism would have been destroyed. I'm of the opinion, however, that had that happened, then we would have entered into a cold war with the Axis that, IMHO, would have been a LOT uglier than what we had with the soviets.
I don't know what Wierwilles logic was regarding that, but prior to the war, the Soviets and the Czarist Russians, before them, were every bit as anti semitic as the Nazis.
I don't know a whole lot about VPW and his views as I usually paid little attention to most of the rants and to this day, thank God I never followed thru and went into the corps. I ALMOST did, but, thankfully it never happened.
VPW could easily have had some opinions that were sympathetic to nazism and I'd be somewhat interested in knowing more about that. I was generally appalled at some of the bizarre statements LCM made, but don't remember VPW getting so convoluted in his statements...or at least he wasn't as loud with it, capturing my attention.
The Latin phrase is "Now you see it, now you don't" (more or less). I took Latin for several years from Jr. High school thru college and I used to sit and CRINGE (hair standing straight up) at VPW's occasional references to Latin. Remember when he said in PFAL the word "mortify" (from Mors; mortis = death) meant "blow to smithereens"?
LOLOLOL
The most recent thing I heard was how the old Rock Band "Iron Butterfly" were believers because "Inna Gadda Da Vida" was Latin for "In the Garden of Eden" (I think "In horto paradisi" would be close, but I don't know the word "Eden")....and this wasn't all that long ago coming from a CFFer...saying he heard it from "Doctor". I KID YOU NOT! The guy actually had the temerity to tell me that.
Anyway, I'm glad Groucho started this thread and am interested in some other folks "take" on this. I'm wondering what sort of apologies he made for Hitle as I never heard any of that.
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doojable
Here is a Link on Nazi rule.
There are certainly many similarities between Hitler's tactics and der victoid's ways.
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dmiller
docvic certainly exhibited the nazi tendencies,
but that didn't make him a *card carrying member*,
either literally, or figuratively.
My imo.
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oldiesman
He was very much the opposite. Nazism is fascism and fascism is totalitarianism, i.e., more and more big government control over people's lives ... and less and less liberty. In contrast VP was a supporter of the U.S. Constitution, i.e. limited government free market system.
Americans should realize that politicians like Sen. Obama have more of a fascist slant in their politics than Dr. Wierwille ever had. Not Hitlerian type fascism, but a softer-type fascism wherein big government socialism slowly takes over every aspect of life. The National Socialist party was like the little froggie in the frying pan. ... Americans clamoring, demanding more and more big government "help" feeds these flames.
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Ham
Some people call that a proof by construction. If the theory fits all of the requirements, it's proved..
I don't know what all the requirements are, but you bring up a few good points.
1. His heritage. And he was damn proud of it..
2. He did carry the Myth of the Six Million, hoax of the twentieth century (I think) and Koestler's book, in his bookstore.. and denied, or greatly minimized the horrors of the Holocaust.. for that matter, he "demonized" Catholics, homosexuals, and others who didn't agree with his theology..
3. He subscribed to and promoted every lunatic fringe conspiracy theory, that served his purposes..
4. He surrounded himself with armed and consciousless goons who would pretty much do his bidding..
5. He claimed to have a basically *infallible* message..
I dunno. Personally, I think these points would suggest that he COULD be a Nazi..
others seem to be able to take these facts, roll them together, and come to the conclusion that he was some kinda manogawd..
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Ham
Add to all this.. in ww2, he decided he'd be better off at the homefront, instead of going to war against da faderland..
gave some lame excuse like da lord would rather have him back in the good ole usa, where he could preach da word, chase church secretaries and the like.. start a significantly self-overrated organization following on the heels of the Jesus movement..
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Sunesis
I always did wonder how he avoided the draft in WWII.
Do I think he was a card carrying Nazi? No. I think he was very sympathetic of them though. He was more of a white supremist I think.
But, if he had lived in Germany under Hitler, I think he would have been one of the first to enroll and put on the uniform. He would have been a proud Nazi I think..
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Ham
I always wondered that, too.
out of three uncles and my dad, they ALL went in the draft, except for one uncle- he had a severe foot deformity..
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frank123lol
The ww2 part always bothered me,My dad his brother,brotherinlaw,best friend all served,
They enlisted in the navy.
Der vic well he could have served,why?He did not?Maybe it was put up or shut up.
Maybe thats the reason thier was not alot of old timers when the way grew in the 60s.Always wondered about that too.
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GrouchoMarxJr
..."...control over people's lives..." and you say Vic was the "opposite"? He may have paid lip service to the US constitution, but in practice, he ran his organization like a dictatorship. People were to replace their own ideas of truth with what the Victoid told them to believe...and like Hitler, he had no tolernace for dissension as his word was final.
Seems to me that controlling people without any regard to their well being is a nazi tactic and one that Wierwille knew well...and it was Wierwille himself, who made a big deal out of his German heritage...
...I can almost see him wearing the nazi uniform...goose stepping onto the motorcoach.
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oldiesman
Apples and oranges. The difference between a religious organization and a military dictatorship is night and day.
Also forgot to mention that a tenet of Nazism is belief in Aryan superiority and Jewish inferiority. Contrast this to Dr. Wierwilles belief that all peoples are the same and come from the same bloodline (Adam and Eve), all are the same physically and mentally (formed and made the same) and spiritually all can be equal through belief in Christ and acceptance of Christ as Messiah (the new birth, Jews and Gentiles are the same body of Christ). Additionally, the Nazis hated, repudiated, killed and removed Jews from their presence; but Wierwille invited them in...
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nyunknown
I never met the man but from what is described from VPW charecter he sound more like a nazi symphizer. He was not the only one before WW2 famous people like charles lindbergh where.
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Jim
Was he a Nazi? No. Nothing about TWI reflected a belief in any sort of racial superiority/inferiority . Now WOW might be construed as a world domination viewpoint, but that's a stretch. As others have pointed out, VPW was patriotic in a highly conservative way, and was not in favor of communist or fascist governments.
OTOH, in a different time and place, could VPW have been one of Hitler's henchmen? I think yes. But it's an unfair question. And if you ask it, you also get to ask how many of the Way Corps would have been SS members. And how many of us followers would have cheered at the rallies. And we're back to where we started. I'm just glad most of us have learned something from our mistakes. I know I have.
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Mark Clarke
That's because he didn't want the government to have too much control, so that he could be in control in his own organization. Nevertheless, his tactics were similar, but within the context of TWI rather than political government.
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Ham
that explains his little cursing and screaming debacle, ending with launching a Living Bible to the back of the brc because he didn't like how they handled Romans 13..
oh no. It's gotta be da ministry that is owed da money..
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Ham
I dunno about racial.. but the religious and spiritual superiority was in my opinion practically the same. It perseveres in *his* organization to this day.. the mighty prevailing household..
the thought of superiority is appealing to many, obviously including myself at one time or to some extent.
How many of the corps would have been ss? I'd have to say, some of them. Some of them carried out orders without question, thinking or conscience.. I met others who never could.
we all cheered at the rallies.. now it's a sickening thought for me..
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Ham
Didn't he accuse Graham and Bright of being in cahoots with the government over this, so that the government could get *da money*, instead of it's supposed rightful destination, the hands of the mogsters of our day and time? That's kinda how I remember it..
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JeffSjo
Here's my take on this question.
TWI became much like the nazi party in it's practices of an over controlling leadership and controlling folks through fear and/or propoganda IN SPITE of the rhetoric that implied honest and open consideration of truth, and good intentions.
Even though some bad doctrine lines up a little with anti-semitism, that in itself DID NOT rise to the same level as nazi propoganda.
In terms of leadership style however, it seems both Dr. Wierwille and Adolph Hitler could be very petty, self-centered, and destructive of people's lives at any whim they felt on any given day.
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frank123lol
So the story goes after one limb meeting,they had overflowing garbage bags of money,one of em
said,we sure fleeced em tonite they probably dont have enough money now to go to mcdonalds.
Yes it was all about getting as much money as they get thier grubby hands on,Like hitler,somewhat,
I saw hier vic rip the guts out of someone cause they supposedly questioned his ancestry.
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