that the way would not help us, that we were to go find some "nice counselor somewhere out there in the world" cause "the way was not a biblical research, teaching, and counseling ministry". Yet, I'd been very clearly instructed for 15 years that there was no real help out there, meaning outside the household of the way. Paul Mosqueda told me I was turned over to Satan, supposedly as a result of my son and me being homosexuals.
How sweet of them to treat you that way. Very loving.
When I ponder aspects of pfal......it's apparent that wierwille's straight-forward approach was to spearhead and emphasize the manifestations of the spirit above all else.
When you think about it, the manifestations were really all he *had.* Everything was built on them - including the authority vp claimed. After all, if you questioned revelation, you were questioning Gawd himself.
And I was thinking... has it occurred to anyone else that der victoid had the biggest title? Sure there were the revs - but HE was *Doctor* and *The Teacher.*
I don't even recall him using the title of "doctor" when addressing an MD.
BUT.........in attending the Advanced Class, it seemed like wierwille was promoting and "programming" the students with his deep ideologies of the holocaust, the illuminati, government distrust and cover-ups, and other tangents.
Now that I think about it, WHY the Hell did these subjects not raise major red flags?
Maybe in the end he didn't really have enough material to fill the two weeks, so he needed some filler material.
I'm trying to find that verse that says something to the effect of it being better to never have heard the Word at all than to have learned it and turned your back on it. That was another powerful tool the way used to keep us under control. I'm not finding it tho, so I'll keep looking.
Paul Mosqueda told me I was turned over to Satan, supposedly as a result of my son and me being homosexuals.
I just love how they used this tiny piece of scripture to harm the body of Christ. They were also famous for using the ole 'mark and avoid' and the ever popular 'dust off your feet' clips to harm the body. Red flags and alarms should have been going off like gang busters over this stuff. But even if we didnt agree many of us were trapped by our own twi 'beliefes' that you do not question the revelation of the man of Gawd. It was a horrible twisted circle that made most of us unwilling and often unknowing co-conspirators to the mental raping and destructive abuse of our brothers and sisters in Christ.
I just love how they used this tiny piece of scripture to harm the body of Christ. They were also famous for using the ole 'mark and avoid' and the ever popular 'dust off your feet' clips to harm the body. Red flags and alarms should have been going off like gang busters over this stuff. But even if we didnt agree many of us were trapped by our own twi 'beliefes' that you do not question the revelation of the man of Gawd. It was a horrible twisted circle that made most of us unwilling and often unknowing co-conspirators to the mental raping and destructive abuse of our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Absolutely! I remember when I heard my first "We had to M & A" this guy on account of he's a homo" trip. I was horrified. I asked everyone I knew how we could do this? The folks in my area were just as shocked as I had been, but the bottom line "... lest the ministry be blamed" and we had that so warped in our thinking. We thought we had survived all those "fiery darts" and other assorted attacks from "the adversary" after the reading of the pop paper, so it seemed somehow like a matter of being ever so careful. When it happened to me personally and I knew the accusations were false anyway, it made me feel even worse for buying into that nonsense and marking other believers and avoiding them.
Yeah, red flags shoulda went off all over the place, but they had that desensitization thing going on too, so it wouldn't really be so shocking to see someone M & A'd, it just seemed ss sad, not actually as tragic as it was. That was also spun to appear how very thin the line between "in fellowship" and "out of fellowship" was - all the more powerful a tool to control people with...
Sounds to me like V.P.W read George Orwell's 1984 and animal farm if they teach you 2 + 2 = 5 and if you question it then there is something wrong with you! Combine it with the bible = The T.W.I. that just my point of view.
In my humble opinion...the real programming started in pfal when Wierwille told the story of the snow on the gas pumps...
Up until then, he had been teaching the bible...suddenly he claims that God spoke to him audibly!...THAT was the hook.
Suddenly it became something "different"...God spoke to this guy!!!!!!!!
Everything changed...this was the guy that God had chosen to speak to and teach His word to...he was the "MOG"
After that, everybody got in line...it was then a progression of filling us with the bullsh *t that they wanted us to believe.
...and I find it interesting that John Lynn is now appealing to what God told Wierwille when he spoke to him audibly..."I will teach you the word as it hasn't been known since the first century"...the snow on the gas pumps story! It's what started it all, it was the hook...and now Lynn is using it to promote his own "thing"...
As far as I'm concerned, it was ALL bullsh *t...every bit of it.
I'm trying to find that verse that says something to the effect of it being better to never have heard the Word at all than to have learned it and turned your back on it. That was another powerful tool the way used to keep us under control. I'm not finding it tho, so I'll keep looking.
KJV 2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
NAS 2 Peter 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Great topic, and well written. I'm inclined to challenge you to look deeper, and so I agree with Coolchef and others who pointed out PFAL foundational as the start of the programming.
From session One Wierwille starts with his technique, setting up a train of questions which we all agree on, then he slips in one we cannot validate but we agree anyway. He does this with increasing frequency until we are accepting *everything* he says even though maybe only every other thing he says is true. He uses suspense to build up tension, and then releases it with a dumb joke, then wham hits you broadside with a suggestion.
There is a hypnotic technique VPW uses in PFAL that I have yet to prove how much he uses it through out the class because I don't have access to it. The technique he used is a trance induction technique where the hypnotist looks you in the eyes but is focusing 6 inches behind your eyes. All those close ups of Vic's face, remember how wierd he seemed to look with his eyes? It was trance induction, which caused the viewer to open up to suggestion. I have no idea how many suggestions he made during the class, but anyone with a copy could count them, they are there.
A minor amount of programming was going on at the twig level but PFAL was the big one for sure.
There is a hypnotic technique VPW uses in PFAL that I have yet to prove how much he uses it through out the class because I don't have access to it. The technique he used is a trance induction technique where the hypnotist looks you in the eyes but is focusing 6 inches behind your eyes. All those close ups of Vic's face, remember how wierd he seemed to look with his eyes? It was trance induction, which caused the viewer to open up to suggestion. I have no idea how many suggestions he made during the class, but anyone with a copy could count them, they are there.
A minor amount of programming was going on at the twig level but PFAL was the big one for sure.
Seth
I find this VERY interesting. I've never heard this said before. All those closeups of Vic's face and how wierd his eyes looked. Most of us watched those tapes probably 100's of times. Anyone else know anything about "trance induction"? Curious.
What about those of us who were just as indoctrinated, who never saw a class, just heard it on tape. I don`t think hypnotism with the eyes would be effective.
Great topic, and well written. I'm inclined to challenge you to look deeper, and so I agree with Coolchef and others who pointed out PFAL foundational as the start of the programming.
From session One Wierwille starts with his technique, setting up a train of questions which we all agree on, then he slips in one we cannot validate but we agree anyway. He does this with increasing frequency until we are accepting *everything* he says even though maybe only every other thing he says is true. He uses suspense to build up tension, and then releases it with a dumb joke, then wham hits you broadside with a suggestion.
There is a hypnotic technique VPW uses in PFAL that I have yet to prove how much he uses it through out the class because I don't have access to it. The technique he used is a trance induction technique where the hypnotist looks you in the eyes but is focusing 6 inches behind your eyes. All those close ups of Vic's face, remember how wierd he seemed to look with his eyes? It was trance induction, which caused the viewer to open up to suggestion. I have no idea how many suggestions he made during the class, but anyone with a copy could count them, they are there.
A minor amount of programming was going on at the twig level but PFAL was the big one for sure.
Seth
:blink: Man I knew that THOUGHT SCREEN HELMET would come in handy.
What about those of us who were just as indoctrinated, who never saw a class, just heard it on tape. I don`t think hypnotism with the eyes would be effective.
yes true but he used many techniques, the eyes is just one.
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Nero
How sweet of them to treat you that way.
Very loving.
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doojable
When you think about it, the manifestations were really all he *had.* Everything was built on them - including the authority vp claimed. After all, if you questioned revelation, you were questioning Gawd himself.
And I was thinking... has it occurred to anyone else that der victoid had the biggest title? Sure there were the revs - but HE was *Doctor* and *The Teacher.*
I don't even recall him using the title of "doctor" when addressing an MD.
Now that I think about it, WHY the Hell did these subjects not raise major red flags?
Maybe in the end he didn't really have enough material to fill the two weeks, so he needed some filler material.
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WordWolf
II Peter 2:19-22
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JeffSjo
Very interesting thread Skyrider,
I've never been more thankful to be a lowly intermediate class grad and a WOW vet. My only TWI acceptible qualification may be speaking. HHHMMM.
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bowtwi
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Eyesopen
I just love how they used this tiny piece of scripture to harm the body of Christ. They were also famous for using the ole 'mark and avoid' and the ever popular 'dust off your feet' clips to harm the body. Red flags and alarms should have been going off like gang busters over this stuff. But even if we didnt agree many of us were trapped by our own twi 'beliefes' that you do not question the revelation of the man of Gawd. It was a horrible twisted circle that made most of us unwilling and often unknowing co-conspirators to the mental raping and destructive abuse of our brothers and sisters in Christ.
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bowtwi
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bowtwi
Absolutely! I remember when I heard my first "We had to M & A" this guy on account of he's a homo" trip. I was horrified. I asked everyone I knew how we could do this? The folks in my area were just as shocked as I had been, but the bottom line "... lest the ministry be blamed" and we had that so warped in our thinking. We thought we had survived all those "fiery darts" and other assorted attacks from "the adversary" after the reading of the pop paper, so it seemed somehow like a matter of being ever so careful. When it happened to me personally and I knew the accusations were false anyway, it made me feel even worse for buying into that nonsense and marking other believers and avoiding them.
Yeah, red flags shoulda went off all over the place, but they had that desensitization thing going on too, so it wouldn't really be so shocking to see someone M & A'd, it just seemed ss sad, not actually as tragic as it was. That was also spun to appear how very thin the line between "in fellowship" and "out of fellowship" was - all the more powerful a tool to control people with...
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nyunknown
Sounds to me like V.P.W read George Orwell's 1984 and animal farm if they teach you 2 + 2 = 5 and if you question it then there is something wrong with you! Combine it with the bible = The T.W.I. that just my point of view.
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GrouchoMarxJr
In my humble opinion...the real programming started in pfal when Wierwille told the story of the snow on the gas pumps...
Up until then, he had been teaching the bible...suddenly he claims that God spoke to him audibly!...THAT was the hook.
Suddenly it became something "different"...God spoke to this guy!!!!!!!!
Everything changed...this was the guy that God had chosen to speak to and teach His word to...he was the "MOG"
After that, everybody got in line...it was then a progression of filling us with the bullsh *t that they wanted us to believe.
...and I find it interesting that John Lynn is now appealing to what God told Wierwille when he spoke to him audibly..."I will teach you the word as it hasn't been known since the first century"...the snow on the gas pumps story! It's what started it all, it was the hook...and now Lynn is using it to promote his own "thing"...
As far as I'm concerned, it was ALL bullsh *t...every bit of it.
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Tzaia
KJV 2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
NAS 2 Peter 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them.
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Seth R.
Skyrider,
Great topic, and well written. I'm inclined to challenge you to look deeper, and so I agree with Coolchef and others who pointed out PFAL foundational as the start of the programming.
From session One Wierwille starts with his technique, setting up a train of questions which we all agree on, then he slips in one we cannot validate but we agree anyway. He does this with increasing frequency until we are accepting *everything* he says even though maybe only every other thing he says is true. He uses suspense to build up tension, and then releases it with a dumb joke, then wham hits you broadside with a suggestion.
There is a hypnotic technique VPW uses in PFAL that I have yet to prove how much he uses it through out the class because I don't have access to it. The technique he used is a trance induction technique where the hypnotist looks you in the eyes but is focusing 6 inches behind your eyes. All those close ups of Vic's face, remember how wierd he seemed to look with his eyes? It was trance induction, which caused the viewer to open up to suggestion. I have no idea how many suggestions he made during the class, but anyone with a copy could count them, they are there.
A minor amount of programming was going on at the twig level but PFAL was the big one for sure.
Seth
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Avondale
I find this VERY interesting. I've never heard this said before. All those closeups of Vic's face and how wierd his eyes looked. Most of us watched those tapes probably 100's of times. Anyone else know anything about "trance induction"? Curious.
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rascal
What about those of us who were just as indoctrinated, who never saw a class, just heard it on tape. I don`t think hypnotism with the eyes would be effective.
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WhiteDove
:blink:
Man I knew that THOUGHT SCREEN HELMET would come in handy.
Here
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dmiller
Tinfoil works fine for me, White Dove. Cheaper too!
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WhiteDove
Next thing you know Mulder and Scully will be finding black oil in VP 's eyes.
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Seth R.
yes true but he used many techniques, the eyes is just one.
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