I think maybe the entrance to the advanced class was a threshhold. By that time, they could say practically anything they wanted, and we still stayed..
yeah, I think the *real* programming began at the advanced class..
I remember people coming back from it, far different from what they were before. For some, that's not a compliment..
I went wow, was a twig coordinator, ran a couple pfal classes, and other stuff long before I took the advanced class, so I'm sure in my case, the hard core indoctrination was in full swing before I got there.
Still, I'll never forget the letter sent after I finished the advanced class, especially the statement stating in no uncertain terms that as an ac grad, the ministry owes me NOTHING, but that I owe the ministry MY LIFE.
I never thought 'the ministry' did owe me anything, and I knew they weren't referring to the 'ministry of reconciliation' in what I owed to them.
I don't know....I think it began with PFAL.......FOUNDATIONAL! Funny, I started thinking back, and how I used to "stand up and defend" the ministry when I first got involved, when I wasn't even convinced of it being right. I think at that point it may have been just curiosity that kept me around.....What is this group all about? I'd never seen anything like it before. And I remember one fellowlaborer saying to me......we are not of this world!!! Ha!! Oh how true.
I think things built in me, with every class I took, every twig I attended and every time I went to an event. It seemed as if, I was never "just There" yet.....Know what I mean. Like I just kept trying to Learn more and learn more...I wanted it all......By the advanced class, they definitely had me as a faithful follower. Advanced class was just a lot of Ooohs and aahs!!! Deep knowledge that no one knew....I had reached the inner circle of spirituality.
I don't know....I think it began with PFAL.......FOUNDATIONAL! Funny, I started thinking back, and how I used to "stand up and defend" the ministry when I first got involved, when I wasn't even convinced of it being right. I think at that point it may have been just curiosity that kept me around.....What is this group all about? I'd never seen anything like it before. And I remember one fellowlaborer saying to me......we are not of this world!!! Ha!! Oh how true.
I think things built in me, with every class I took, every twig I attended and every time I went to an event. It seemed as if, I was never "just There" yet.....Know what I mean. Like I just kept trying to Learn more and learn more...I wanted it all......By the advanced class, they definitely had me as a faithful follower. Advanced class was just a lot of Ooohs and aahs!!! Deep knowledge that no one knew....I had reached the inner circle of spirituality.
Interesting Topic......
I agree, newlife.
Right there in session #7 where Eve is used as an example of what could happen to you if you dared to "consider".
Wow Skyrider, Very interesting observation. I know that it was in the advanced class that I came to the realization that I had to decide if I really believed this stuff, and that IF I did, that it behooved me to commit myself and my life to being the best I could be for God in the spiritual battle.
I wanted to help him any way I could.
I didn`t have natural leadership ability, which is what kept k,me from entering the corpes before that. I came to the firm conclusion that if he needed me on the front lines spiritually, then he would darned well have to develop some within me.
It dawns on me that up until the advanced class, I probably still had doubts and could have left.
I agree that it was PFAL where it all started but I think the AC was where the Hook got us. the paranoia. NOW, if we left the ministry, we knew ALL about those devil spirits and how they would get us because we were NOT in fellowship. Out of alinement, out from under God's umbrella........the devil spirits had free reign.
In the beginning it was all happy, happy, love, love, family, fellowhsip - so most of us (those without a brain I guess) were not planning our escape. We were having fun. By the time we got to the AC and learned all the "inner secrets" we were afraid to leave. what if it all were true? What if the devil WAS going to get me!
I agree that it was PFAL where it all started but I think the AC was where the Hook got us. the paranoia. NOW, if we left the ministry, we knew ALL about those devil spirits and how they would get us because we were NOT in fellowship. Out of alinement, out from under God's umbrella........the devil spirits had free reign.
I do agree with you (mostly)... I just ask "how did you get to the point that you even wanted/needed the AC?" ...how did you get to the point that you bought what veepee was teachin' ya hook, line and sinker? (we all did for the most part)
I just think that the 'programming' was pretty much complete by the time you got to the AC... it was the icing on the cake that sealed in all of the good and tasty freshness!
I do agree with you (mostly)... I just ask "how did you get to the point that you even wanted/needed the AC?" ...how did you get to the point that you bought what veepee was teachin' ya hook, line and sinker? (we all did for the most part)
Well after session (I guess its a good thing I can't even remember how many sessions PFAL was and I only took it a hundred times...I guess I'm finally deprogrammed after 21 years) Anyway after we "manifested" spoke in tongues and were flying as high as a kite - we wanted more more more. Intermediate Class (I always had a real problem with that one) and then, of course, the Advanced Class. So, yes, it did start with PFAL. It could only get better and better. But then comes the AC. and, oh.....there's eveil out there.....lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my.
We didn't really pick up on it in the Foundational class (It was the fear in the heart and the life of that mother!!!!!) because we were too high and too blind. And it was meeting all those needs - the father figure, the structure, the boundaries that we were all looking for (from another thread!) which is why we were "prime meat" for a cult
May I ask a question Ex-wayers. I am an outsider looing in. I know many of you started with fellowships then started taking courses. When people started taking more advanced classed and start to learning some of these "teachings" did not people questioning or thought this is too strange or bizzare did people object or leave. Many of you seem very smart to me. No offence is intended. I am sure all of you knew then what you know now none of you would have joined. I like to get feedback in this trend.
Good question, there. I don't describe or define involvement in the Way at any stage "programming". There's similarities to be sure, but I don't think people's involvement can be attributed to being programmed or brainwashed into staying involved. Some people probably were, to certain degrees, but overall, no. Not in MHO.
Well the deprogrammers must have thought it started in the twig ... we had one young woman taken before she had piffle ... of course that was southern WV ... where there had some local deprogrammers ...
or maybe it was out of respect for me ... my fellow corpse twiggee Sheela toe knee was part of it ... ha ... I don't think her family had money, so maybe it was a promotional deprogramming ...
years later another young gal was taken shortly after she had piffle ... but she was in our "way home". Maybe they figured it was better to get them early ... it was a little more difficult to zap them out of da corpse ...
but yeah, the AC did put one in deeper into the secret society ... that is where you had special knowledge that only other special people knew. And after that God would speak directly to you ....
But every step of The Way was a caste system ... keep sending money in for those classes if you want to be hip ....
I'm not totally sure the idea of "programming" is completely accurate either, but perhaps conditioning might be. I'm not real sure on all the phycological definitions and possibilities, but there was definitely something to the structure and teachings that hooked us and played on both our good intentions, fragility, and our paranoia. I was brought up in this as a child so that also seems like a different set of circumstances. I didn't really know anything else until I got into my late teens and early twenties.
The foundational class was exactly that... a foundation and the acceptance of that made it much easier to accept the next bit of info and the next. Keep in mine NYU, we have the luxury of hindsight. At the time the next class was a year or more away. Each day was an incremental step in our personal evolution, with a meeting virtually every other day through the late 90's (when fellowships switched to 2 times a week), and you were encouraged expected to attend. Plus for the most part the local people were usually genuine caring good hearted people.
By the time the AC became an option for you (1 or 2 foundational and intermediate classes, the DTA class, CFS, maybe something else, the criteria changed over time), you had been thoroughly indoctrinated. The AC definitely raised the bar. In terms of commitment to TWI and, in turn, your own personal safety and commitment to the "competition." It was for many the next step in the direction of becoming a leader in one form or another. Whether that be a fellowship/twig coordinator or going into the corps, or doing more teachings in fellowship. It was also a step in the general direction of service to TWI. Again it was somewhat expected of you but I don't think many of us were complaining at the time. We knew it was expected of us and we were committed to serve and put up with the increasing amount of crap shoveled your way. I think most would agree, the higher up you went the more crap you had to deal with. That was in part because TWI thought that the more you were taught, the more you were "entrusted with", then the more responsibility you had to do it and uphold it. That was not an unspoken concept. That was taught from the podium on Sundays... and we accepted that responsibility.
Why?
Again the reasons vary to a degree. Some have clearly come from troubled pasts. Some bought into the secret knowledge idea and the superiority/inferiority complex. Some had shopped around and in spite of all the questionables they may have thought of, it was the best thing they knew. Some of us were rasied to accept it with little question, while thinking we were actually thinking things through. Some of us put our friendships and experiences above the questions and doubts. The list goes on.
BUT
There was the doctrine as well and we accepted that early on for whatever reasons. There was the negative believing = doubt, worry, and fear teaching. There was the "fall of man" teaching in which Eve's first sin was to consider something else... then she made small changes... then she no longer had the "Word of God" and she was deceived. Then there was Adam's consideration and acceptance of her sin. There was the private interpretation teaching in which we were basically taught not to use critical thinking in reading the Bible, but let it tell us what it says. That really was just saying accept what we were being taught. There was the Job teaching of Job 3: 25 in this context. The thing which he greatly feared "came upon him." That was of course, framed in a positive light of "from victim to victor." (I wonder if that title was stolen or if VICTOR Paul Wierwille came up with it.) There was also the recommendations of replacing your negative thoughts of doubts, worries and fears with verses from the Bible. There was also encouragement and expectation of memorization of specific verses of TWI's choosing and their definitions of the manifestations. These were all foundational teachings. Plus you weren't supposed to ask questions until the end. Mixed in with that were some genuinely decent things to learn and some nonsense that made it look like TWI understood the bible better than any other group around (the four crucified, "today(,) you shall be with me in heaven," the day JC was born, etc). That was all capped with the 12th session in which we received our "proof", which was speaking in tongues. It was a finely crafted class, no matter who actually came up with it, with a specific purpose.
Of course, there were plenty of people that didn't make it through the foundational class. Attrition of students was high at times. Other times 100% made it through to session twelve. At this point I would think that attrition is low considering that most of the new students are Way kids that are coming of age.
I would think that until "the fog years" and then later in the mark and avoiding of the nineties, that most of the Adv. Class Grads stuck around for a long time. That is because it was the biggest step in one's commitment, before the corps, to TWI (the ministry that taught you the rightly divided Word).
I guess that I use the word "programming" in the sense that......to me, the Advanced Class threw lots of twi-ideology curves at us. I certainly wasn't expecting to hear such an adamant twi stance on "the hoax of the six million" or that "all popes were seed boys" ...... stuff like that.
It's one thing to go thru Scripture and expound on it...........it's quite another thing to shoot tangents at the class with very little evidence to support it. I guess it kept nagging at me......what the heck does THAT have to do with learning the Bible????
good points sky... but like others, I firmly believe it began right in PLAF!
and to anyone who thinks it was all good, or some good, why do you think they called it "foundational"?
why do you think they wanted you to take it over and over, again and again?
(I could probably still watch that thing and within 15 minutes be mouthing the words along with veepee)
the foundational class started building your loyalty to 'the one true ministry'
the foundational class started you 'thinking evil' of established denominations
the foundational class taught you secrets that 'no one else had known since the first century'
the foundational class started you on the road to alienation of friends and family (if you couldn't suck them in)
the foundational class gave you 'status' in god's household
by the time you got to the advanced class... you were locked in and knew that 'with knowledge comes responsibility'...
Yeah.....I see your point.
Besides, all we needed to do was "just write THE TEACHER".....for all the answers.
When people started taking more advanced classed and start to learning some of these "teachings" did not people questioning or thought this is too strange or bizzare did people object or leave. Many of you seem very smart to me. No offence is intended. I am sure all of you knew then what you know now none of you would have joined. I like to get feedback in this trend.
One reason (in my case anyway) I didn't know the Bible. Never read the bible in my life until I got to the Way. so there was nothing to compare it to.
yeah... and did anyone who did that ever get any answers?
Yeah – I got this form-letter response…see below:
"Thank you for your questions. Every question is very important to my ministry and will be answered in the order they were received. In the meantime, I recommend you enroll in the next PFAL class in your area. Be alert and attentive for each session – your particular questions may have already been answered in PFAL."
Yeah – I got this form-letter response…see below:
"Thank you for your questions. Every question is very important to my ministry and will be answered in the order they were received. In the meantime, I recommend you enroll in the next PFAL class in your area. Be alert and attentive for each session – your particular questions may have already been answered in PFAL."
May I ask a question Ex-wayers. I am an outsider looing in. I know many of you started with fellowships then started taking courses. When people started taking more advanced classed and start to learning some of these "teachings" did not people questioning or thought this is too strange or bizzare did people object or leave. Many of you seem very smart to me. No offence is intended. I am sure all of you knew then what you know now none of you would have joined. I like to get feedback in this trend.
Let me answer your question as briefly as possible NYU.------Consequences
It was made very clear early on that to question or doubt would result in consequences.
Likewise with leaving "The One True Household".----------Consequences
The thought of those consequences was held over your head like some sort of extortion.
And we weren't supposed to discuss these doubts amongst ourselves. We were supposed to all have the same type of thoughts. (The Renewed Mind.) So not only did you not consider and discuss these things, you tricked your mind into ignoring them
And remember the concept the Walter C#mmins floated in "The Renewed Mind" class? That of the "enlarged mind" or some such tripe. You know, the idea that once you've heard enough "wurd" your mind becomes enlarged so you can understand larger, more convoluted concepts.
I guess the idea that "enlarging" one's brain basically boiled down to becoming increasingly (and toxically) CREDULOUS never occurred to any of us. But that's what it was. Simply talking us out of any innate skepticism we may have had, and reassuring us that the crap they were selling us was the REAL deal. They didn't try to do it all at once. No, no, no. Just whittle away ever so slowly at your doubts and convince you that any skepticism is really pretty evil, unrenewed, and definitely NOT what GOD would approve of.
Just believe the good Doctor, HE knows what's right...
Let me answer your question as briefly as possible NYU.------Consequences
It was made very clear early on that to question or doubt would result in consequences.
Likewise with leaving "The One True Household".----------Consequences
The thought of those consequences was held over your head like some sort of extortion.
And we weren't supposed to discuss these doubts amongst ourselves. We were supposed to all have the same type of thoughts. (The Renewed Mind.) So not only did you not consider and discuss these things, you tricked your mind into ignoring them
And remember the concept the Walter C#mmins floated in "The Renewed Mind" class? That of the "enlarged mind" or some such tripe. You know, the idea that once you've heard enough "wurd" your mind becomes enlarged so you can understand larger, more convoluted concepts.
I guess the idea that "enlarging" one's brain basically boiled down to becoming increasingly (and toxically) CREDULOUS never occurred to any of us. But that's what it was. Simply talking us out of any innate skepticism we may have had, and reassuring us that the crap they were selling us was the REAL deal. They didn't try to do it all at once. No, no, no. Just whittle away ever so slowly at your doubts and convince you that any skepticism is really pretty evil, unrenewed, and definitely NOT what GOD would approve of.
Just believe the good Doctor, HE knows what's right...
Hey there NYU. These are as about as correct of an answer as you could ask for. :)
Personally (and no disrespect to you Skyrider), I also believe the *programming* began at pfal, and even earlier.
Promises of the *special knowledge*, promises of *guaranteed* answers to prayer, promises of affluence,
promises of this, that, and many other things --- got folks to their first TWIG, and then it REALLY began.
(Twig leader: Welcome and God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ!! Welcome to twig!! How Ya doing??)
(Twig response --- GREAT!!)
Then came the songs, the manifestations, the teaching, closing prayer, etc.
I think that right there is where the *programing* began, although I'll agree with you that at later stages,
the advanced class was just as instrumental as the first twig a person might have gone to.
The *EXCLUSIVENESS* and *SUPERIORITY* of twi was lauded early on
in anyone's (and everyone's) involvement right from the git go.
As you know -- the more you stuck around, the more you were encouraged to go further.
Many newbies (myself included) got hooked right then and there.
I'm convinced that the desire to aspire to the advanced class, started right then and there.
Could be wrong, but that's my imo about it all, cause that's how it was for me.
Personally (and no disrespect to you Skyrider), I also believe the *programming* began at pfal, and even earlier.
Promises of the *special knowledge*, promises of *guaranteed* answers to prayer, promises of affluence,
promises of this, that, and many other things --- got folks to their first TWIG, and then it REALLY began.
dmiller..........almost, thou persuadest me that programming began at pfal, "and even earlier."
When I ponder aspects of pfal......it's apparent that wierwille's straight-forward approach was to spearhead and emphasize the manifestations of the spirit above all else. Sure, after years of tweaking his product, wierwille augmented and broadened "his" foundational class........but so many of those *promises on the green card* were just window-dressing to get you in the store (twi) and keep you there (by providing other classes).
Yeah, I would agree with lindyhopper in that, to a degree, aspects of pfal (and twig) were a form of conditioning. For some who had to WAIT FOR MONTHS to take pfal......an expectation was built-in [....think pavlov, think salivating dogs]. :)
BUT.........in attending the Advanced Class, it seemed like wierwille was promoting and "programming" the students with his deep ideologies of the holocaust, the illuminati, government distrust and cover-ups, and other tangents. Talk about PROGRAMMING one to accept the "us versus them" concept........wierwille's conspiracy theories / paranoia were strategically presented to the students and showed that "strength in numbers" was our ONLY HOPE of withstanding the onslaughts of the devil.
And, at the advanced class........away from family & friends, the two-weeks of immersion in wayworld was very persuasive, indeed. Even after those class sessions, one had to attend those "group-think meetings" .......THOSE WERE NOT RELEASE GROUPS. There was very little "releasing" of feelings, opinions, questioning, or whatever......nope, it wasn't designed for that purpose.
Anyways......I appreciate all who've added to this thread.
Pardon if anyone else has already said this. Since I was born into TWI - I think it started for me since the beginning... but I would say it started in fellowship or the twig itself. They had to mold you a bit before you bought all the garbage in the foundational class.
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coolchef
no boubt the brain washing was rampant in the ac but it began WAY befor that
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Ham
I think maybe the entrance to the advanced class was a threshhold. By that time, they could say practically anything they wanted, and we still stayed..
yeah, I think the *real* programming began at the advanced class..
I remember people coming back from it, far different from what they were before. For some, that's not a compliment..
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hiway29
I went wow, was a twig coordinator, ran a couple pfal classes, and other stuff long before I took the advanced class, so I'm sure in my case, the hard core indoctrination was in full swing before I got there.
Still, I'll never forget the letter sent after I finished the advanced class, especially the statement stating in no uncertain terms that as an ac grad, the ministry owes me NOTHING, but that I owe the ministry MY LIFE.
I never thought 'the ministry' did owe me anything, and I knew they weren't referring to the 'ministry of reconciliation' in what I owed to them.
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newlife
I don't know....I think it began with PFAL.......FOUNDATIONAL! Funny, I started thinking back, and how I used to "stand up and defend" the ministry when I first got involved, when I wasn't even convinced of it being right. I think at that point it may have been just curiosity that kept me around.....What is this group all about? I'd never seen anything like it before. And I remember one fellowlaborer saying to me......we are not of this world!!! Ha!! Oh how true.
I think things built in me, with every class I took, every twig I attended and every time I went to an event. It seemed as if, I was never "just There" yet.....Know what I mean. Like I just kept trying to Learn more and learn more...I wanted it all......By the advanced class, they definitely had me as a faithful follower. Advanced class was just a lot of Ooohs and aahs!!! Deep knowledge that no one knew....I had reached the inner circle of spirituality.
Interesting Topic......
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Tom Strange
good points sky... but like others, I firmly believe it began right in PLAF!
and to anyone who thinks it was all good, or some good, why do you think they called it "foundational"?
why do you think they wanted you to take it over and over, again and again?
(I could probably still watch that thing and within 15 minutes be mouthing the words along with veepee)
the foundational class started building your loyalty to 'the one true ministry'
the foundational class started you 'thinking evil' of established denominations
the foundational class taught you secrets that 'no one else had known since the first century'
the foundational class started you on the road to alienation of friends and family (if you couldn't suck them in)
the foundational class gave you 'status' in god's household
by the time you got to the advanced class... you were locked in and knew that 'with knowledge comes responsibility'...
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waysider
I agree, newlife.
Right there in session #7 where Eve is used as an example of what could happen to you if you dared to "consider".
"Having done all-----STAND!" <_<
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rascal
Wow Skyrider, Very interesting observation. I know that it was in the advanced class that I came to the realization that I had to decide if I really believed this stuff, and that IF I did, that it behooved me to commit myself and my life to being the best I could be for God in the spiritual battle.
I wanted to help him any way I could.
I didn`t have natural leadership ability, which is what kept k,me from entering the corpes before that. I came to the firm conclusion that if he needed me on the front lines spiritually, then he would darned well have to develop some within me.
It dawns on me that up until the advanced class, I probably still had doubts and could have left.
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Avondale
I agree that it was PFAL where it all started but I think the AC was where the Hook got us. the paranoia. NOW, if we left the ministry, we knew ALL about those devil spirits and how they would get us because we were NOT in fellowship. Out of alinement, out from under God's umbrella........the devil spirits had free reign.
In the beginning it was all happy, happy, love, love, family, fellowhsip - so most of us (those without a brain I guess) were not planning our escape. We were having fun. By the time we got to the AC and learned all the "inner secrets" we were afraid to leave. what if it all were true? What if the devil WAS going to get me!
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Tom Strange
I do agree with you (mostly)... I just ask "how did you get to the point that you even wanted/needed the AC?" ...how did you get to the point that you bought what veepee was teachin' ya hook, line and sinker? (we all did for the most part)
I just think that the 'programming' was pretty much complete by the time you got to the AC... it was the icing on the cake that sealed in all of the good and tasty freshness!
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Avondale
Well after session (I guess its a good thing I can't even remember how many sessions PFAL was and I only took it a hundred times...I guess I'm finally deprogrammed after 21 years) Anyway after we "manifested" spoke in tongues and were flying as high as a kite - we wanted more more more. Intermediate Class (I always had a real problem with that one) and then, of course, the Advanced Class. So, yes, it did start with PFAL. It could only get better and better. But then comes the AC. and, oh.....there's eveil out there.....lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my.
We didn't really pick up on it in the Foundational class (It was the fear in the heart and the life of that mother!!!!!) because we were too high and too blind. And it was meeting all those needs - the father figure, the structure, the boundaries that we were all looking for (from another thread!) which is why we were "prime meat" for a cult
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nyunknown
May I ask a question Ex-wayers. I am an outsider looing in. I know many of you started with fellowships then started taking courses. When people started taking more advanced classed and start to learning some of these "teachings" did not people questioning or thought this is too strange or bizzare did people object or leave. Many of you seem very smart to me. No offence is intended. I am sure all of you knew then what you know now none of you would have joined. I like to get feedback in this trend.
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socks
Good question, there. I don't describe or define involvement in the Way at any stage "programming". There's similarities to be sure, but I don't think people's involvement can be attributed to being programmed or brainwashed into staying involved. Some people probably were, to certain degrees, but overall, no. Not in MHO.
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rhino
Well the deprogrammers must have thought it started in the twig ... we had one young woman taken before she had piffle ... of course that was southern WV ... where there had some local deprogrammers ...
or maybe it was out of respect for me ... my fellow corpse twiggee Sheela toe knee was part of it ... ha ... I don't think her family had money, so maybe it was a promotional deprogramming ...
years later another young gal was taken shortly after she had piffle ... but she was in our "way home". Maybe they figured it was better to get them early ... it was a little more difficult to zap them out of da corpse ...
but yeah, the AC did put one in deeper into the secret society ... that is where you had special knowledge that only other special people knew. And after that God would speak directly to you ....
But every step of The Way was a caste system ... keep sending money in for those classes if you want to be hip ....
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lindyhopper
I'm not totally sure the idea of "programming" is completely accurate either, but perhaps conditioning might be. I'm not real sure on all the phycological definitions and possibilities, but there was definitely something to the structure and teachings that hooked us and played on both our good intentions, fragility, and our paranoia. I was brought up in this as a child so that also seems like a different set of circumstances. I didn't really know anything else until I got into my late teens and early twenties.
The foundational class was exactly that... a foundation and the acceptance of that made it much easier to accept the next bit of info and the next. Keep in mine NYU, we have the luxury of hindsight. At the time the next class was a year or more away. Each day was an incremental step in our personal evolution, with a meeting virtually every other day through the late 90's (when fellowships switched to 2 times a week), and you were encouraged expected to attend. Plus for the most part the local people were usually genuine caring good hearted people.
By the time the AC became an option for you (1 or 2 foundational and intermediate classes, the DTA class, CFS, maybe something else, the criteria changed over time), you had been thoroughly indoctrinated. The AC definitely raised the bar. In terms of commitment to TWI and, in turn, your own personal safety and commitment to the "competition." It was for many the next step in the direction of becoming a leader in one form or another. Whether that be a fellowship/twig coordinator or going into the corps, or doing more teachings in fellowship. It was also a step in the general direction of service to TWI. Again it was somewhat expected of you but I don't think many of us were complaining at the time. We knew it was expected of us and we were committed to serve and put up with the increasing amount of crap shoveled your way. I think most would agree, the higher up you went the more crap you had to deal with. That was in part because TWI thought that the more you were taught, the more you were "entrusted with", then the more responsibility you had to do it and uphold it. That was not an unspoken concept. That was taught from the podium on Sundays... and we accepted that responsibility.
Why?
Again the reasons vary to a degree. Some have clearly come from troubled pasts. Some bought into the secret knowledge idea and the superiority/inferiority complex. Some had shopped around and in spite of all the questionables they may have thought of, it was the best thing they knew. Some of us were rasied to accept it with little question, while thinking we were actually thinking things through. Some of us put our friendships and experiences above the questions and doubts. The list goes on.
BUT
There was the doctrine as well and we accepted that early on for whatever reasons. There was the negative believing = doubt, worry, and fear teaching. There was the "fall of man" teaching in which Eve's first sin was to consider something else... then she made small changes... then she no longer had the "Word of God" and she was deceived. Then there was Adam's consideration and acceptance of her sin. There was the private interpretation teaching in which we were basically taught not to use critical thinking in reading the Bible, but let it tell us what it says. That really was just saying accept what we were being taught. There was the Job teaching of Job 3: 25 in this context. The thing which he greatly feared "came upon him." That was of course, framed in a positive light of "from victim to victor." (I wonder if that title was stolen or if VICTOR Paul Wierwille came up with it.) There was also the recommendations of replacing your negative thoughts of doubts, worries and fears with verses from the Bible. There was also encouragement and expectation of memorization of specific verses of TWI's choosing and their definitions of the manifestations. These were all foundational teachings. Plus you weren't supposed to ask questions until the end. Mixed in with that were some genuinely decent things to learn and some nonsense that made it look like TWI understood the bible better than any other group around (the four crucified, "today(,) you shall be with me in heaven," the day JC was born, etc). That was all capped with the 12th session in which we received our "proof", which was speaking in tongues. It was a finely crafted class, no matter who actually came up with it, with a specific purpose.
Of course, there were plenty of people that didn't make it through the foundational class. Attrition of students was high at times. Other times 100% made it through to session twelve. At this point I would think that attrition is low considering that most of the new students are Way kids that are coming of age.
I would think that until "the fog years" and then later in the mark and avoiding of the nineties, that most of the Adv. Class Grads stuck around for a long time. That is because it was the biggest step in one's commitment, before the corps, to TWI (the ministry that taught you the rightly divided Word).
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skyrider
Thanks everyone for your responses!
I guess that I use the word "programming" in the sense that......to me, the Advanced Class threw lots of twi-ideology curves at us. I certainly wasn't expecting to hear such an adamant twi stance on "the hoax of the six million" or that "all popes were seed boys" ...... stuff like that.
It's one thing to go thru Scripture and expound on it...........it's quite another thing to shoot tangents at the class with very little evidence to support it. I guess it kept nagging at me......what the heck does THAT have to do with learning the Bible????
Yeah.....I see your point.
Besides, all we needed to do was "just write THE TEACHER".....for all the answers.
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Tom Strange
yeah... and did anyone who did that ever get any answers?
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Avondale
One reason (in my case anyway) I didn't know the Bible. Never read the bible in my life until I got to the Way. so there was nothing to compare it to.
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T-Bone
Yeah – I got this form-letter response…see below:
"Thank you for your questions. Every question is very important to my ministry and will be answered in the order they were received. In the meantime, I recommend you enroll in the next PFAL class in your area. Be alert and attentive for each session – your particular questions may have already been answered in PFAL."
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A la prochaine
OMG <_<
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waysider
Let me answer your question as briefly as possible NYU.------Consequences
It was made very clear early on that to question or doubt would result in consequences.
Likewise with leaving "The One True Household".----------Consequences
The thought of those consequences was held over your head like some sort of extortion.
And we weren't supposed to discuss these doubts amongst ourselves. We were supposed to all have the same type of thoughts. (The Renewed Mind.) So not only did you not consider and discuss these things, you tricked your mind into ignoring them
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George Aar
And remember the concept the Walter C#mmins floated in "The Renewed Mind" class? That of the "enlarged mind" or some such tripe. You know, the idea that once you've heard enough "wurd" your mind becomes enlarged so you can understand larger, more convoluted concepts.
I guess the idea that "enlarging" one's brain basically boiled down to becoming increasingly (and toxically) CREDULOUS never occurred to any of us. But that's what it was. Simply talking us out of any innate skepticism we may have had, and reassuring us that the crap they were selling us was the REAL deal. They didn't try to do it all at once. No, no, no. Just whittle away ever so slowly at your doubts and convince you that any skepticism is really pretty evil, unrenewed, and definitely NOT what GOD would approve of.
Just believe the good Doctor, HE knows what's right...
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dmiller
Hey there NYU. These are as about as correct of an answer as you could ask for. :)
Personally (and no disrespect to you Skyrider), I also believe the *programming* began at pfal, and even earlier.
Promises of the *special knowledge*, promises of *guaranteed* answers to prayer, promises of affluence,
promises of this, that, and many other things --- got folks to their first TWIG, and then it REALLY began.
(Twig leader: Welcome and God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ!! Welcome to twig!! How Ya doing??)
(Twig response --- GREAT!!)
Then came the songs, the manifestations, the teaching, closing prayer, etc.
I think that right there is where the *programing* began, although I'll agree with you that at later stages,
the advanced class was just as instrumental as the first twig a person might have gone to.
The *EXCLUSIVENESS* and *SUPERIORITY* of twi was lauded early on
in anyone's (and everyone's) involvement right from the git go.
As you know -- the more you stuck around, the more you were encouraged to go further.
Many newbies (myself included) got hooked right then and there.
I'm convinced that the desire to aspire to the advanced class, started right then and there.
Could be wrong, but that's my imo about it all, cause that's how it was for me.
*Learning is an exciting adventure*.
Uh-huh. Yea. It is. But NOT on twi's terms.
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skyrider
dmiller..........almost, thou persuadest me that programming began at pfal, "and even earlier."
When I ponder aspects of pfal......it's apparent that wierwille's straight-forward approach was to spearhead and emphasize the manifestations of the spirit above all else. Sure, after years of tweaking his product, wierwille augmented and broadened "his" foundational class........but so many of those *promises on the green card* were just window-dressing to get you in the store (twi) and keep you there (by providing other classes).
Yeah, I would agree with lindyhopper in that, to a degree, aspects of pfal (and twig) were a form of conditioning. For some who had to WAIT FOR MONTHS to take pfal......an expectation was built-in [....think pavlov, think salivating dogs]. :)
BUT.........in attending the Advanced Class, it seemed like wierwille was promoting and "programming" the students with his deep ideologies of the holocaust, the illuminati, government distrust and cover-ups, and other tangents. Talk about PROGRAMMING one to accept the "us versus them" concept........wierwille's conspiracy theories / paranoia were strategically presented to the students and showed that "strength in numbers" was our ONLY HOPE of withstanding the onslaughts of the devil.
And, at the advanced class........away from family & friends, the two-weeks of immersion in wayworld was very persuasive, indeed. Even after those class sessions, one had to attend those "group-think meetings" .......THOSE WERE NOT RELEASE GROUPS. There was very little "releasing" of feelings, opinions, questioning, or whatever......nope, it wasn't designed for that purpose.
Anyways......I appreciate all who've added to this thread.
Thanks.
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Nero
Pardon if anyone else has already said this. Since I was born into TWI - I think it started for me since the beginning... but I would say it started in fellowship or the twig itself. They had to mold you a bit before you bought all the garbage in the foundational class.
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