Very interesting article, Belle – thanks...makes me wonder about the nature of faith, spirituality, etc……hmmm, it also gets me thinking about whatTWI put in their Kool-Aid.
Thanks for the article Belle. As a serotonin deficient person I have a defense. It goes something like this...
Dear God,
I know I am not the most spiritual person like James Dobson, the late James Kennedy, whazizname from Virginia Beach you know the 700 Club guy (see I'm synaptically challenged), VP, LCM, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Mother Theresa, John Lynn et. al. But look it, Prozac, Effexor, Celexa and Cymbalta, years on the couch and even prayer couldn't stop the reuptake of serotonin. My neuroreceptors ain't Yogi Berra, Johnny Bench or even my dear old Dad (who they say was a pretty good catcher back in the day.) They are more fried than what you get when you order Family Style in Calabash.
Please cut me some slack if I get a little crazy sometimes and sulk the day away at other times. After all, it's all a part of my journey. I will try to remember to thank You for the blessings that are mine and love my neighbor.
Hhmmmm, God needs for us to have serotonin to hear him and his Word. ... a chemical (or lack thereof) is the determining factor as to the the spirit of God being able to work in us. ... the lack of a _physical_ substance able to interfere/trump the (supposedly superior) spirit.
Well TWI top leaders were not happy ... or mellow ... they thought the world was out to get them ... and everyone that challenged them was possessed.
Thinking back on vp ... he did not seem like a happy guy ... nor lcm. Nor the bus driver ... lynn, a little happier ... some were happier, some were more mental terrorists most of the time.
I'm thinkin' most were seratonin deficient. The fundamental lessons were in "The Blue Book" (The Depressed Book"?) ... I guess VP was blue ... and wanted others to be blue.
Release from your Prisons ... unless you follow me .. into the motorcoach ... you will never be free from your prisons ...
I'll gonna take a triple dose of 5-HTP ...and get back to you in a week ...
will I see Jesus? or Elvis? ...
what if I mix it with beer ... and LSD ... and take "the class" ... backwards ... it says "V Paul is dead" ... some say if you looked in his eyes (eye) ... it was true ... dead eyes ...
I had a brief experience that some may interpret as madness.. I was stone, cold sober at the time.. and I spent a couple of years asking anybody who would listen about it.. even an analyst, not on the first visit, mind you..
"they" still let me walk the streets
the logical side of my makeup just watched, and all it could do was describe some of the different brain chemicals involved.. kept me going to work, functioning normally in sbociety.. nothing like it has happened before, or since.. it was like LSD times a hundred..
maybe my brain just "burped" for some unknown reason or another..
I think it was all a reaction to what I saw at the time. It was like, a light so bright, it was burning holes in me.. but it wasn't really unpleasant or anything. I think that's when I really abandoned every last vestige of what I thought was the truth as I learned in da way.
maybe it was just midlife crisis or something..
The analyst asked a few questions.. it was a time I'd decided to go back to school, really do what I felt I was supposed to do in life.. life in a frenzy like a squirrel with the hectic fall schedule.. I think she ended up being more of a guidance counsellor.
Just reading all the variety of posts in this café is merely one factor that indicates to me it is far more a free will choice that changes our proclivity than our
physical chemistry and the agents that act upon it. I know that in varying degrees brain chemistry and hormonal changes occur frequently throughout our
lives and may have pronounced affects/effects; but the human will and self control can override this, in my opinion/experience... (I have a background in
electro-nuero-diagnostic technology)...and I believe that the spiritual effects factor in heavily as well! I have had a fairly challenging life in a vast number of
ways; and if I have an excess of serotonin, I must be somewhat immune to it's affects, because I make my choices based on my standards, not how I feel
Hmmm. My family does have a history of mental illness and depression. One sibling is bipolar and schizophrenic, my father had bouts of depression and his mother was bipolar. My other siblings and I have been on anti depresants at one time or another.
About a year before I got involved in TWI I was in counseling for depression, but no meds at that time. I quit counselling voluntarily.
The renewed mind teaching was very exciting to me, and for a while( a year?) it seemed to work, my mood did elevate. Perhaps because I embraced renewed mind/never hold a negative thought is a reason why I stayed in so long.
But by the time we left TWI 20 yrs later I knew I was in trouble. I even told my husband that if we stayed in TWI I would have to get depression medication( I'd been using St John's Wort which didn't work much for me.) Even St John's Wort would have got us kicked out of TWI, cuz mental problems equaled pozzezzed.
Symptoms worsened alot after a serious illness and months of oral steroids. I am on medication now and probably will remain since I lose REM sleep and short term memory without it. I can't live a normal life without short term memory.
I didn't read the article but have read several books about how feelings and perceptions and even consciousness work.
For anyone who cares to read more on the topic, some suggestions are:
Kluge: The Haphazard Construction of the Human Mind by Gary Marcus
Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in Life and in the Markets by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions by Dan Ariely
The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size (Penguin Press Science) by Tor Norretranders
They are all science books but you don't have to be a scientist to understand them. You do have to have an understanding of the benefits (and limitations) of experiments or you'll probably get very frustrated.
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T-Bone
Very interesting article, Belle – thanks...makes me wonder about the nature of faith, spirituality, etc……hmmm, it also gets me thinking about what TWI put in their Kool-Aid.
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Avondale
Prozac for everyone!
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oenophile
Thanks for the article Belle. As a serotonin deficient person I have a defense. It goes something like this...
Dear God,
I know I am not the most spiritual person like James Dobson, the late James Kennedy, whazizname from Virginia Beach you know the 700 Club guy (see I'm synaptically challenged), VP, LCM, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Mother Theresa, John Lynn et. al. But look it, Prozac, Effexor, Celexa and Cymbalta, years on the couch and even prayer couldn't stop the reuptake of serotonin. My neuroreceptors ain't Yogi Berra, Johnny Bench or even my dear old Dad (who they say was a pretty good catcher back in the day.) They are more fried than what you get when you order Family Style in Calabash.
Please cut me some slack if I get a little crazy sometimes and sulk the day away at other times. After all, it's all a part of my journey. I will try to remember to thank You for the blessings that are mine and love my neighbor.
RJ
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GarthP2000
Hhmmmm, God needs for us to have serotonin to hear him and his Word. ... a chemical (or lack thereof) is the determining factor as to the the spirit of God being able to work in us. ... the lack of a _physical_ substance able to interfere/trump the (supposedly superior) spirit.
Makes ya wanna go, ........ Hhmmmm. <_<
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Eyesopen
Thanks Belle! I found that to be quite interesting.
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rhino
Well TWI top leaders were not happy ... or mellow ... they thought the world was out to get them ... and everyone that challenged them was possessed.
Thinking back on vp ... he did not seem like a happy guy ... nor lcm. Nor the bus driver ... lynn, a little happier ... some were happier, some were more mental terrorists most of the time.
I'm thinkin' most were seratonin deficient. The fundamental lessons were in "The Blue Book" (The Depressed Book"?) ... I guess VP was blue ... and wanted others to be blue.
Release from your Prisons ... unless you follow me .. into the motorcoach ... you will never be free from your prisons ...
I'll gonna take a triple dose of 5-HTP ...and get back to you in a week ...
will I see Jesus? or Elvis? ...
what if I mix it with beer ... and LSD ... and take "the class" ... backwards ... it says "V Paul is dead" ... some say if you looked in his eyes (eye) ... it was true ... dead eyes ...
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Ham
I dunno.. which came first, the experience, or the brain chemicals..
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rhino
I wondered that too .. maybe the people that have a philosophy that yields more peace ... or happiness ... produce more seratonin ...
... though isn't depression (or other "moods") partly genetic? ...
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Ham
I wonder how many have had what they consider a *real* honest to god, *spiritual* experience.. well, not recreational drug induced, anyway..
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Ham
I had a brief experience that some may interpret as madness.. I was stone, cold sober at the time.. and I spent a couple of years asking anybody who would listen about it.. even an analyst, not on the first visit, mind you..
"they" still let me walk the streets
the logical side of my makeup just watched, and all it could do was describe some of the different brain chemicals involved.. kept me going to work, functioning normally in sbociety.. nothing like it has happened before, or since.. it was like LSD times a hundred..
maybe my brain just "burped" for some unknown reason or another..
I think it was all a reaction to what I saw at the time. It was like, a light so bright, it was burning holes in me.. but it wasn't really unpleasant or anything. I think that's when I really abandoned every last vestige of what I thought was the truth as I learned in da way.
maybe it was just midlife crisis or something..
The analyst asked a few questions.. it was a time I'd decided to go back to school, really do what I felt I was supposed to do in life.. life in a frenzy like a squirrel with the hectic fall schedule.. I think she ended up being more of a guidance counsellor.
time seems so short..
:)
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RainbowsGirl
Belle,
Indeed this is interesting!
Just reading all the variety of posts in this café is merely one factor that indicates to me it is far more a free will choice that changes our proclivity than our
physical chemistry and the agents that act upon it. I know that in varying degrees brain chemistry and hormonal changes occur frequently throughout our
lives and may have pronounced affects/effects; but the human will and self control can override this, in my opinion/experience... (I have a background in
electro-nuero-diagnostic technology)...and I believe that the spiritual effects factor in heavily as well! I have had a fairly challenging life in a vast number of
ways; and if I have an excess of serotonin, I must be somewhat immune to it's affects, because I make my choices based on my standards, not how I feel
(edited for grammar and spelling)
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cheranne
As one who needs prozac because of so much trauma as a young child,in life and death situation
I considered myself spiritually inquestive(always)
but I didn't start taking prozac until I was outoftheway and started therapy,for me it helped.
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Bramble
Hmmm. My family does have a history of mental illness and depression. One sibling is bipolar and schizophrenic, my father had bouts of depression and his mother was bipolar. My other siblings and I have been on anti depresants at one time or another.
About a year before I got involved in TWI I was in counseling for depression, but no meds at that time. I quit counselling voluntarily.
The renewed mind teaching was very exciting to me, and for a while( a year?) it seemed to work, my mood did elevate. Perhaps because I embraced renewed mind/never hold a negative thought is a reason why I stayed in so long.
But by the time we left TWI 20 yrs later I knew I was in trouble. I even told my husband that if we stayed in TWI I would have to get depression medication( I'd been using St John's Wort which didn't work much for me.) Even St John's Wort would have got us kicked out of TWI, cuz mental problems equaled pozzezzed.
Symptoms worsened alot after a serious illness and months of oral steroids. I am on medication now and probably will remain since I lose REM sleep and short term memory without it. I can't live a normal life without short term memory.
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My3Cents
I didn't read the article but have read several books about how feelings and perceptions and even consciousness work.
For anyone who cares to read more on the topic, some suggestions are:
Kluge: The Haphazard Construction of the Human Mind by Gary Marcus
Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in Life and in the Markets by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions by Dan Ariely
The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size (Penguin Press Science) by Tor Norretranders
They are all science books but you don't have to be a scientist to understand them. You do have to have an understanding of the benefits (and limitations) of experiments or you'll probably get very frustrated.
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