Yes, here is part of the story that I posted under *testimonies* in the open forum. Most here have read it, but here it is again.
I was very young when I got involved in the ministry. I went out wow as soon as I turned 18. I was discouraged from going back home because I was told there weren`t any fellowships and that I would die *spiritually* if I returned.
I moved into a way home with the city coordinator who was interim corp. I had a wonderful year being gently taught. The hardships of an Alabama girl learning to live in the brutal North Dakota climate were made bearable by the wonderful lady who lovingly cared for all of the believers under her watch.
At the end of her year, She asked would I keep the house and accept the new interim leaders family as my room mates.
I eagerly agreed, thinking that God had another year of action packed adventure and growth in store for me by allowing me to live once again with leaders.
Whew, what a dissapointment. The new leaders arrived and were immediately dissatisfied with every aspect of the house, the town and the believers.
Our home that had been so carefully chosen with fellowship and classes in mind had a huge great room, it was centrally located to all of the believers, it was in one of the nicer sections of town. The Wife hated it, she hated Fargo and most of all she REALLY hated me.
The dishes weren`t to her liking, the cooking utensils not complete to her satisfaction...Though I paid one third of the rent, I was required to share a bed room with their 6 yr old daughter.
Whatever I did, it was done wrong, why hadn`t I done it thus and such way. I was 18 maybe 19 yrs old at this time, and jobs in Fargo were scarce, especially for someone who had only been a waitress. There were two restaurants in town and I fortunately had a job on 3rd shift at one of them.
Well, my job was evil because I was out after midnight, I was a loser because I couldn`t find anything better.
She wanted the entire house vaccumed by 8 am every morning. I would vaccume every night before I would leave for work, but then they would eat pop corn and make a mess all evening. Well, I got off at 4 or 5 am and would come home and sleep.
She would then wake me up at 8 snarling at me for not having taken care of my daily responsibility. It isn`t like I could vaccume at 5 am and wake everyone up. I would be harangued about my laziness and being a sluggard and my lack of believing in not having a job during decent hours....I would numbly vaccume, exhausted mutely bearing the brunt of her criticizm. Broken because I had been taught that leadership spoke for God. That God told leadership how to best help us...and this lady let me know just what a screw up I was
I couldn`t figure out how I had become such a bad person so quickly. I tried desperately to be the believer that God wanted me to be.
It all came to a head one morning after about three months of meanness. I had once again vaccumed the house gone to work and put in a full shift/ i had returned home and only slept an hour when the morning routine began.
Something snapped inside and I told the woman to please leave me alone, that I would take care of my responsibility when I got up at noon.
What was this? the lowly peon dared to talk back?Huh Oh my goodness, the woman went ballistic, she was incensed, and grabbed my leg and hauled until she pulled me off of the bed and I landed on the floor with a jolt.
I jumped up and told her to leave me the he ll alone! OH geeeze The woman started shrieking hysterically to her terrified 6 year old daughter standing there to *leave the room* *This person was POSESSED*!!!
Something died right then and there in side of me.....I was absolutely sickened with shame and horror. I will never forget the look of terror in the little girls eyes as she fled. Hell, I wished that I could have run away from me too. It of course never occured to me to doubt what this leader said.
She was rebuking Satan and swearing at me. It was all surreal...like a night mare.
I brokenly just started packing my things up. I started loading my car. I had some vague half formed plan of driving myself and my two dogs off of the red river bridge and drowning. I know that this sounds nuts...but I didn`t WANT to live if I had darkness inside of me.
I did NOT want to be alive if I was possessed. I did NOT want to hurt any body with my evilness. Most of all I couldn`t live with the shame of all of the people who so lovingly nurtured me as a young Christian knowing how vile I had become.
I cried brokenly, not understanding how I could go from a beloved valuable family member in the body of Christ in three short months to being possessed by satan.
It took me an hour to gather my most important belongings. I left them the house, rented in my name with all of the deposits, the utilities and their deposits, the phone, the furniture, dishes etc.
I took my most personal belongings while she followed me screamimg, rebuking, darned near frothing in her rage. I took my two dogs and got in my car and left. Broken ... I did not know how I had become possessed. I couldn`t understand how to not be possessed. I couldn`t go to anybody and TELL them that I was possessed. I was so desperatly alone...I couldn`t even turn to God...how dare I, if I were possessed? I was just a stench in his nostrils, a disapointment, a spiritually nasty vile being.
I was horrified, I was ashamed, I loathed myself, I couldn`t live with being evil and not even knowing that I was evil and not having a clue as to how I had gotten that way ...when I had done my very best to be a doulos to God...what if I inadvertently infected someone else??
You can read the rest of the account in the open forum, as it turned out that the bc`s wife was simply just ....ed because she had informed God that she was to be sent to California on her assignment, I suppose that I was just the most convenient target.
It was unjust and very cruel, and many years before I could tell the story for fear that someone might agree with her.
Although as I got out of TWI and began to look around and found that most people who see and claim there are devils are generally not the mentally or emotionnally most stable people in town -- It didnt effect me anymore..
i still hear it every once in awhile at the shelter I volunteer at from schizophrenics or otherseverely mentally ill patients who go of off thier meds.
what happened decades ago in TWI doesnt bother me anymore, although it was confusticating at the time.
The real problem at the time was I somehow considered that they might know what they were talking about-- which was a huge mistake--once I eventually got over that hump--and realized I was dealing with a bunch of deranged control freaks it wasnt all that bad anymore...
Like Belle and MStar I was and probably still am accused of being possessed and maybe I am... :o I always figured it was a lot like being crazy, if you have to ask if you are...you probably arent.
And not to derail the thread too much but I was wondering does anyone know where they actually got the names for all these debil sprits? I dont remember there ever being a list of them in the Bible or even too many verses that really definitively named one. I know there are places that appear to be calling some spirit by a adverb style name but even those seemed a little hinky to me. Jesus asked one what his name was and I get the impression from those verses that he was looking for an actual name like George or something. I mean Lucifer is a real name right? It doesnt say that he changed his name when he fell from heaven only that he was now using a title that depicted his nature. There are some books that give the angels names and I'm pretty sure there are some that give debil sprits names as well... actual names. So where did twi come up with all of their names? Anyone know?
Nope, never directly told I was possessed though while being "ministered to" I remember people including devil spirits in the context. (Mostly *spirit of oppression*.) Well, duh! How could you spend much time in TWI and not feel oppressed? I think people rattled off things that basically described their own feelings.
hiya eyes!........most of the stuff vic taught on devil spirits was taken straight from b.g. leonard's gifts of the spirit class........like about 80% of the entire "advamced class"!!!.........the rest was just stuff vic made up on his own, and/or observed during his "research" among the purveyors of the "hooky-pook" stuff he was so enchanted with!
not long after i left twi, the "word" on me was that i was "born again of the wrong seed"!..........LOL!............no one ever said it to my face..........but, i guess that's kinda like bein' possessed "in absentia", no???.....LOL!.........probably worse!.........amazing how many of us seed boys are still causin' all those powerful "christ-ins" so many "problens", eh?????...............ssshhhhhhhh!...........be vewy, vewy quiet!..........kwazy wabbits are evwywhere!!!....................peace.
Worse yet, I was told that my baby girl was possessed.
Yes, my beautiful 2 year-old babydoll. And they didn't even have the guts to tell me to my face. Some busybody broad went behind my back and told my job coordinator (WayBuilders) about her suspicions.
So I get called into the WB office - along with my immediate supervisor (what the hell did HE have to do with anything?) and I get a long drawn out spiritual analysis of my life - from a guy who had only met me in passing and had never even been to my home. Yet here he was, passing judgement on the minute spiritual affairs of the Aar household - all on the say-so of some nosy, gossiping, tattletale broad, who ALSO had never been to our house or ever known me.
So all weekend I'm sitting, staring at my little baby girl and wondering if there's any truth to what they were saying, and imagining all sorts of evil stuff about my own sweet little girl - and wondering if I was responsible for allowing the Devil to harm her in some way. What a dispicable pile of crap to dump on someone. I'll never forget THAT crap, not ever.
I got good and mad after I thought about it long enough, and went in to Mr. B#der's office on Monday and got in his face about it. Naturally, things got turned around again, and I was informed that I just wasn't spiritual enough to comprehend what was REALLY going on and I'd better get meek to what the MOG was telling me or I'd REALLY be in for it.
Well, I didn't get meek. I left his office and called B.S. on all of it.
It turns out, that my baby was doing something pretty common for little girls. When she'd get really excited about something, she'd forget to breath, and just pass out. It was kinda freaky to witness, but it's something LOTS of little girls do, and they grow out of it rather quickly (so I was told by none other than Mrs. V.P.). And, sure enough, I don't remember her ever doing that after another few months, or maybe a year.
That was probably the last time I ever paid any mind to anything that some "spiritual" sort of geek was trying to sell me. I think I finally grew out of that last vestige of credulousness.
DWBH, if you were so "seedy" then how did they explain that old vic went to see you right before he died when he went to Gartmore and also when he returned. Â How do they explain their "Father in the Word" seeking you out like that? Hmm?...Typical.
A bunch of freakin losers, pulling stuff out of thin air, as usual. Â I can't tell you how many times some conniving, manipulitive, busy body went over my head to gossip and tell lies about me, just so they'd look like some spiritual one and look good before the leadership by putting me down. Â It was amazing how whithin certain circles that kind of thing was tolerated and welcomed by upper echelon leadership-everyone wanting the inside track information on other believers. Â
Oh, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive!
Yup DWBH I remember being told that you were pozzezzed with some pretty crazy and powerful debils, but my boyfriend at the time said that he knew you and said that you weren't pozzezzed; you were right. I believed him. He was a jerk and a half but he was seldom wrong about people.
I thought it was a crock when they got on the kick that everybody that disagreed with them was pozzezzed. None of it made any sense. All of their smoke screens sure made a happy playground available if the debil really did want to play, and I bet he did. Tangled web indeed! Thank God I never met Swatratra! :blink:
you have asked -- "I wondered how many people were ever told they were possessed?"
I was told by my closes friends in the Way in person to my face!
I received letters from top leaders that Craig M. asked to write me because I wrote him!
I received a letter from a top leader that I had believe was a friend!
I received phone calls from top leaders in person!
I was told I had devil spirits, that I was possessed, bewitch, and the anti-Christ himself
Friends I got later outside the ministry where warmed of me and told to be careful
I some times wish I keep some of the letters but I gave them to a friend that post here off and on maybe he will share parts of them but it is up to him because I gave them away
DWBH ... I remember being told by someone (not someone locally) that you were born of the wrong seed, to which I replied, "No, he's not ... " They said, "How do you know?" I replied, "I've heard him speak in tongues and interpret on quite a few occasions ... and that's just the beginning of how I know he's not." So they shut up.
I once PRETENDED to be possessed during my WOW year ... tired of my know-it-all (or so he thought) family coordinator casting spirits out of me, so I said (just like I'd heard in some class), "Yes, we're all gone now." He fell for it ... it was funny ... to this day, I am sure my similarly-nicknamed-to-the-purple-dinosaur friend thinks he cast spirits out of me. He's got a problem with Ephesians 4:32, so it's probably just as well he frequents only the WC site ... one of those DWBH has aptly said needs to apologize to those whom he used.
Oddly I just read THIS STORY in todays paper. TWI arent the only complete nutjobs around
Laura Schubert Pearson's lawsuit accusing members of the Pleasant Glade Assembly of God Church of subjecting her to a two-day exorcism ordeal in 1996 that left her so distressed she attempted suicide was dismissed by the Texas Supreme Court last month....
Mrs Schubert Pearson, 29, claims she was left bruised and traumatised after members of her church group allegedly kept her captive for two days so they could perform an exorcism in which was pinned to the ground and "pummelled".
The incident happened after fellow members of the church group became convinced she was possessed by demons. She was 17 at the time.
After the alleged ordeal, she dropped out of school and tried to slit her wrists....
So in Texas anyway--its perfectly acceptable if you pin a 17 year old girl to the ground and beat the krap out of her as long as you do it in a religious context'
They really didn't care about people....it was all about being "someone" who was spiritual mature and had the "In" with God to know what spirit a person had...it was all about "them"......Who could reach into "Daddy's Cookie Jar" and get the revelation.
When I first got involved with TWI.....do you know what we looked for in each person? The Christ in them. It was HUGE.....look for the Christ in that person......and love that person as Christ would love them......How far in the opposite direction was that taken.......From looking at the Christ in Each person........to looking for the devil spirits. So Sick........
Oh that is such a vivid memory! We got sooooo far from that simplicity didn't we??????
Sad to hear these stories.......I hope it helps other to know that they don't have to believe the deceptions laid at their doorstep!!
i still hear it every once in awhile at the shelter I volunteer at from schizophrenics or otherseverely mentally ill patients who go of off thier meds.
(snip)
I didn't hear it in twi, or from twi people.
However, I did hear it from someone on psychiatric medication.
I remember being told that you should NEVER tell someone who was possessed that they were possessed because they were not capable of understanding that.
I have read a couple very interesting books on modern day cases of possession and exorcism - one called Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin - a former Jesuit Preist, and one that I can't remember the title of by a psychologist who was trained by Malachi Martin. Very interesting books. Their take on the whole possession thing made a lot more sense than twi's... Their viewpoint was that there were very few cases of actual possession, and that all avenues of modern science should be used prior to labelling someone possessed. Counselling, therapy, medical screening, all of it had to be exhausted before even considering someone would be possessed.
Malachi Martin also stated in his book (I am paraphrasing here) that possession happens when someone gets confused on something from a very common sense standpoint. A good example of this (in my opinion) would be something like the adultery confusion in twi - that somehow something so very very simple as "thou shalt not commit adultery" becomes "all the women belong to the king." Only the person is completely convinced that this is the case - not just manipulating people for one's own selfish gain.
It's an interesting subject to look at from other sources other than twi's weird viewpoint where the concept was just used as a way to remove people who caused any questioning of the MOG's authority. I'm not sure what I believe about it at this point - but then again, I am not convinced on what I believe on A LOT of stuff, you know? Right now I just enjoy THINKING.
I know they thought my husband was hehe (he is bipolar). They probably thought I was too. We were just trying to move my brother back home because he was injured on the job and surprise surprise the wayfers he was living with didn't give a crap and weren't taking care of him like the brother he was supposed to be. They thought we were trying to keep him from being in a place he needed to be.
It was really funny (but only now) watching people step around you like you are some crocodile (like you are going to hurt them in some way) with their hands outstretched like they were going to cast out the spirits. I swear I was trying to be polite and not laugh but the way they were acting was insane. There wasn't much laughing at the end of it though - there is only so much of that you can take before it starts to get annoying.
It's kind of weird talking and interacting with someone who is still in that mind frame when you've been there yourself.
No one in TWI said it to my face, but I heard it at CES often. I would just laugh - in my typically devilish way. I knew I was getting to him when he flashed the possessed "card". What a crock of crap!
I was that little possesed girl--called so by a limb leader I never met. I was taking away his nearly free labor by marrying his crew supervisor--and then insisting he make a wage OVER the poverty limit.
Never laid eyes on me--I am 5' 6" tall. Hazy Revelation I guess.
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rascal
Yes, here is part of the story that I posted under *testimonies* in the open forum. Most here have read it, but here it is again.
I was very young when I got involved in the ministry. I went out wow as soon as I turned 18. I was discouraged from going back home because I was told there weren`t any fellowships and that I would die *spiritually* if I returned.
I moved into a way home with the city coordinator who was interim corp. I had a wonderful year being gently taught. The hardships of an Alabama girl learning to live in the brutal North Dakota climate were made bearable by the wonderful lady who lovingly cared for all of the believers under her watch.
At the end of her year, She asked would I keep the house and accept the new interim leaders family as my room mates.
I eagerly agreed, thinking that God had another year of action packed adventure and growth in store for me by allowing me to live once again with leaders.
Whew, what a dissapointment. The new leaders arrived and were immediately dissatisfied with every aspect of the house, the town and the believers.
Our home that had been so carefully chosen with fellowship and classes in mind had a huge great room, it was centrally located to all of the believers, it was in one of the nicer sections of town. The Wife hated it, she hated Fargo and most of all she REALLY hated me.
The dishes weren`t to her liking, the cooking utensils not complete to her satisfaction...Though I paid one third of the rent, I was required to share a bed room with their 6 yr old daughter.
Whatever I did, it was done wrong, why hadn`t I done it thus and such way. I was 18 maybe 19 yrs old at this time, and jobs in Fargo were scarce, especially for someone who had only been a waitress. There were two restaurants in town and I fortunately had a job on 3rd shift at one of them.
Well, my job was evil because I was out after midnight, I was a loser because I couldn`t find anything better.
She wanted the entire house vaccumed by 8 am every morning. I would vaccume every night before I would leave for work, but then they would eat pop corn and make a mess all evening. Well, I got off at 4 or 5 am and would come home and sleep.
She would then wake me up at 8 snarling at me for not having taken care of my daily responsibility. It isn`t like I could vaccume at 5 am and wake everyone up. I would be harangued about my laziness and being a sluggard and my lack of believing in not having a job during decent hours....I would numbly vaccume, exhausted mutely bearing the brunt of her criticizm. Broken because I had been taught that leadership spoke for God. That God told leadership how to best help us...and this lady let me know just what a screw up I was
I couldn`t figure out how I had become such a bad person so quickly. I tried desperately to be the believer that God wanted me to be.
It all came to a head one morning after about three months of meanness. I had once again vaccumed the house gone to work and put in a full shift/ i had returned home and only slept an hour when the morning routine began.
Something snapped inside and I told the woman to please leave me alone, that I would take care of my responsibility when I got up at noon.
What was this? the lowly peon dared to talk back?Huh Oh my goodness, the woman went ballistic, she was incensed, and grabbed my leg and hauled until she pulled me off of the bed and I landed on the floor with a jolt.
I jumped up and told her to leave me the he ll alone! OH geeeze The woman started shrieking hysterically to her terrified 6 year old daughter standing there to *leave the room* *This person was POSESSED*!!!
Something died right then and there in side of me.....I was absolutely sickened with shame and horror. I will never forget the look of terror in the little girls eyes as she fled. Hell, I wished that I could have run away from me too. It of course never occured to me to doubt what this leader said.
She was rebuking Satan and swearing at me. It was all surreal...like a night mare.
I brokenly just started packing my things up. I started loading my car. I had some vague half formed plan of driving myself and my two dogs off of the red river bridge and drowning. I know that this sounds nuts...but I didn`t WANT to live if I had darkness inside of me.
I did NOT want to be alive if I was possessed. I did NOT want to hurt any body with my evilness. Most of all I couldn`t live with the shame of all of the people who so lovingly nurtured me as a young Christian knowing how vile I had become.
I cried brokenly, not understanding how I could go from a beloved valuable family member in the body of Christ in three short months to being possessed by satan.
It took me an hour to gather my most important belongings. I left them the house, rented in my name with all of the deposits, the utilities and their deposits, the phone, the furniture, dishes etc.
I took my most personal belongings while she followed me screamimg, rebuking, darned near frothing in her rage. I took my two dogs and got in my car and left. Broken ... I did not know how I had become possessed. I couldn`t understand how to not be possessed. I couldn`t go to anybody and TELL them that I was possessed. I was so desperatly alone...I couldn`t even turn to God...how dare I, if I were possessed? I was just a stench in his nostrils, a disapointment, a spiritually nasty vile being.
I was horrified, I was ashamed, I loathed myself, I couldn`t live with being evil and not even knowing that I was evil and not having a clue as to how I had gotten that way ...when I had done my very best to be a doulos to God...what if I inadvertently infected someone else??
You can read the rest of the account in the open forum, as it turned out that the bc`s wife was simply just ....ed because she had informed God that she was to be sent to California on her assignment, I suppose that I was just the most convenient target.
It was unjust and very cruel, and many years before I could tell the story for fear that someone might agree with her.
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Belle
Not to my face.... but it was said.
Maybe they were correct, though.
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mstar1
It was told to me many times
like Belle --- I probably am--
Although as I got out of TWI and began to look around and found that most people who see and claim there are devils are generally not the mentally or emotionnally most stable people in town -- It didnt effect me anymore..
i still hear it every once in awhile at the shelter I volunteer at from schizophrenics or otherseverely mentally ill patients who go of off thier meds.
what happened decades ago in TWI doesnt bother me anymore, although it was confusticating at the time.
The real problem at the time was I somehow considered that they might know what they were talking about-- which was a huge mistake--once I eventually got over that hump--and realized I was dealing with a bunch of deranged control freaks it wasnt all that bad anymore...
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Imagine
After they kicked me really hard, I cried.
Then, I was told I had a sullen (sad) spirit.
It's true I was sad about the way I was treated.
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Eyesopen
Like Belle and MStar I was and probably still am accused of being possessed and maybe I am... :o I always figured it was a lot like being crazy, if you have to ask if you are...you probably arent.
And not to derail the thread too much but I was wondering does anyone know where they actually got the names for all these debil sprits? I dont remember there ever being a list of them in the Bible or even too many verses that really definitively named one. I know there are places that appear to be calling some spirit by a adverb style name but even those seemed a little hinky to me. Jesus asked one what his name was and I get the impression from those verses that he was looking for an actual name like George or something. I mean Lucifer is a real name right? It doesnt say that he changed his name when he fell from heaven only that he was now using a title that depicted his nature. There are some books that give the angels names and I'm pretty sure there are some that give debil sprits names as well... actual names. So where did twi come up with all of their names? Anyone know?
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Watered Garden
I was told the Sprout was possessed and should be kicked out like a mad dog.
Some of the coldest hardest hearts that ever lived flourish in TWI.
WG
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waysider
Nope, never directly told I was possessed though while being "ministered to" I remember people including devil spirits in the context. (Mostly *spirit of oppression*.) Well, duh! How could you spend much time in TWI and not feel oppressed? I think people rattled off things that basically described their own feelings.
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DontWorryBeHappy
hiya eyes!........most of the stuff vic taught on devil spirits was taken straight from b.g. leonard's gifts of the spirit class........like about 80% of the entire "advamced class"!!!.........the rest was just stuff vic made up on his own, and/or observed during his "research" among the purveyors of the "hooky-pook" stuff he was so enchanted with!
not long after i left twi, the "word" on me was that i was "born again of the wrong seed"!..........LOL!............no one ever said it to my face..........but, i guess that's kinda like bein' possessed "in absentia", no???.....LOL!.........probably worse!.........amazing how many of us seed boys are still causin' all those powerful "christ-ins" so many "problens", eh?????...............ssshhhhhhhh!...........be vewy, vewy quiet!..........kwazy wabbits are evwywhere!!!....................peace.
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George Aar
Worse yet, I was told that my baby girl was possessed.
Yes, my beautiful 2 year-old babydoll. And they didn't even have the guts to tell me to my face. Some busybody broad went behind my back and told my job coordinator (WayBuilders) about her suspicions.
So I get called into the WB office - along with my immediate supervisor (what the hell did HE have to do with anything?) and I get a long drawn out spiritual analysis of my life - from a guy who had only met me in passing and had never even been to my home. Yet here he was, passing judgement on the minute spiritual affairs of the Aar household - all on the say-so of some nosy, gossiping, tattletale broad, who ALSO had never been to our house or ever known me.
So all weekend I'm sitting, staring at my little baby girl and wondering if there's any truth to what they were saying, and imagining all sorts of evil stuff about my own sweet little girl - and wondering if I was responsible for allowing the Devil to harm her in some way. What a dispicable pile of crap to dump on someone. I'll never forget THAT crap, not ever.
I got good and mad after I thought about it long enough, and went in to Mr. B#der's office on Monday and got in his face about it. Naturally, things got turned around again, and I was informed that I just wasn't spiritual enough to comprehend what was REALLY going on and I'd better get meek to what the MOG was telling me or I'd REALLY be in for it.
Well, I didn't get meek. I left his office and called B.S. on all of it.
It turns out, that my baby was doing something pretty common for little girls. When she'd get really excited about something, she'd forget to breath, and just pass out. It was kinda freaky to witness, but it's something LOTS of little girls do, and they grow out of it rather quickly (so I was told by none other than Mrs. V.P.). And, sure enough, I don't remember her ever doing that after another few months, or maybe a year.
That was probably the last time I ever paid any mind to anything that some "spiritual" sort of geek was trying to sell me. I think I finally grew out of that last vestige of credulousness.
Sure took long enough...
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now I see
DWBH, if you were so "seedy" then how did they explain that old vic went to see you right before he died when he went to Gartmore and also when he returned. Â How do they explain their "Father in the Word" seeking you out like that? Hmm?...Typical.
A bunch of freakin losers, pulling stuff out of thin air, as usual. Â I can't tell you how many times some conniving, manipulitive, busy body went over my head to gossip and tell lies about me, just so they'd look like some spiritual one and look good before the leadership by putting me down. Â It was amazing how whithin certain circles that kind of thing was tolerated and welcomed by upper echelon leadership-everyone wanting the inside track information on other believers. Â
Oh, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive!
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rascal
I see that I am in good company, and can hold my head up with pride....:)
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Eyesopen
Yup DWBH I remember being told that you were pozzezzed with some pretty crazy and powerful debils, but my boyfriend at the time said that he knew you and said that you weren't pozzezzed; you were right. I believed him. He was a jerk and a half but he was seldom wrong about people.
I thought it was a crock when they got on the kick that everybody that disagreed with them was pozzezzed. None of it made any sense. All of their smoke screens sure made a happy playground available if the debil really did want to play, and I bet he did. Tangled web indeed! Thank God I never met Swatratra! :blink:
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year2027
God first
Beloved newlife
God loves you my dear friend
you have asked -- "I wondered how many people were ever told they were possessed?"
I was told by my closes friends in the Way in person to my face!
I received letters from top leaders that Craig M. asked to write me because I wrote him!
I received a letter from a top leader that I had believe was a friend!
I received phone calls from top leaders in person!
I was told I had devil spirits, that I was possessed, bewitch, and the anti-Christ himself
Friends I got later outside the ministry where warmed of me and told to be careful
I some times wish I keep some of the letters but I gave them to a friend that post here off and on maybe he will share parts of them but it is up to him because I gave them away
so add me to your list
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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waysider
Roy
I'm so sorry they did that to you.
It grieves me to think I was ever associated with an organization that would ever do such a cold hearted thing.
Holy Hugs to you, Bro.
We'll never turn you away.
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DogLover
DWBH ... I remember being told by someone (not someone locally) that you were born of the wrong seed, to which I replied, "No, he's not ... " They said, "How do you know?" I replied, "I've heard him speak in tongues and interpret on quite a few occasions ... and that's just the beginning of how I know he's not." So they shut up.
I once PRETENDED to be possessed during my WOW year ... tired of my know-it-all (or so he thought) family coordinator casting spirits out of me, so I said (just like I'd heard in some class), "Yes, we're all gone now." He fell for it ... it was funny ... to this day, I am sure my similarly-nicknamed-to-the-purple-dinosaur friend thinks he cast spirits out of me. He's got a problem with Ephesians 4:32, so it's probably just as well he frequents only the WC site ... one of those DWBH has aptly said needs to apologize to those whom he used.
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year2027
God first
Beloved waysider
God loves you my dear friend
thank you yes this place has only good spirits of friendship and love
thanks for the Holy Hugs
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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mstar1
Oddly I just read THIS STORY in todays paper. TWI arent the only complete nutjobs around
So in Texas anyway--its perfectly acceptable if you pin a 17 year old girl to the ground and beat the krap out of her as long as you do it in a religious context'
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newlife
They really didn't care about people....it was all about being "someone" who was spiritual mature and had the "In" with God to know what spirit a person had...it was all about "them"......Who could reach into "Daddy's Cookie Jar" and get the revelation.
When I first got involved with TWI.....do you know what we looked for in each person? The Christ in them. It was HUGE.....look for the Christ in that person......and love that person as Christ would love them......How far in the opposite direction was that taken.......From looking at the Christ in Each person........to looking for the devil spirits. So Sick........
Oh that is such a vivid memory! We got sooooo far from that simplicity didn't we??????
Sad to hear these stories.......I hope it helps other to know that they don't have to believe the deceptions laid at their doorstep!!
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WordWolf
I didn't hear it in twi, or from twi people.
However, I did hear it from someone on psychiatric medication.
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JavaJane
I remember being told that you should NEVER tell someone who was possessed that they were possessed because they were not capable of understanding that.
I have read a couple very interesting books on modern day cases of possession and exorcism - one called Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin - a former Jesuit Preist, and one that I can't remember the title of by a psychologist who was trained by Malachi Martin. Very interesting books. Their take on the whole possession thing made a lot more sense than twi's... Their viewpoint was that there were very few cases of actual possession, and that all avenues of modern science should be used prior to labelling someone possessed. Counselling, therapy, medical screening, all of it had to be exhausted before even considering someone would be possessed.
Malachi Martin also stated in his book (I am paraphrasing here) that possession happens when someone gets confused on something from a very common sense standpoint. A good example of this (in my opinion) would be something like the adultery confusion in twi - that somehow something so very very simple as "thou shalt not commit adultery" becomes "all the women belong to the king." Only the person is completely convinced that this is the case - not just manipulating people for one's own selfish gain.
It's an interesting subject to look at from other sources other than twi's weird viewpoint where the concept was just used as a way to remove people who caused any questioning of the MOG's authority. I'm not sure what I believe about it at this point - but then again, I am not convinced on what I believe on A LOT of stuff, you know? Right now I just enjoy THINKING.
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newlife
Thanks for sharing that......
That seems very logical....about the confusion on a simple thing such as adultery. It sounds just like what the devil would do too.
I might read those books.....
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Nero
I know they thought my husband was hehe (he is bipolar). They probably thought I was too. We were just trying to move my brother back home because he was injured on the job and surprise surprise the wayfers he was living with didn't give a crap and weren't taking care of him like the brother he was supposed to be. They thought we were trying to keep him from being in a place he needed to be.
It was really funny (but only now) watching people step around you like you are some crocodile (like you are going to hurt them in some way) with their hands outstretched like they were going to cast out the spirits. I swear I was trying to be polite and not laugh but the way they were acting was insane. There wasn't much laughing at the end of it though - there is only so much of that you can take before it starts to get annoying.
It's kind of weird talking and interacting with someone who is still in that mind frame when you've been there yourself.
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Tzaia
Yes, and oh heck yes.
No one in TWI said it to my face, but I heard it at CES often. I would just laugh - in my typically devilish way. I knew I was getting to him when he flashed the possessed "card". What a crock of crap!
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geisha779
I was that little possesed girl--called so by a limb leader I never met. I was taking away his nearly free labor by marrying his crew supervisor--and then insisting he make a wage OVER the poverty limit.
Never laid eyes on me--I am 5' 6" tall. Hazy Revelation I guess.
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