Reno police had a tv show named after them and their stupidity (Reno911).
Rumor has it (no definite proof or verification) that some LA big wig was treated especially terribly and he vowed he would get back at the Reno police. Voila Reno 911.
I have been treated bad by police -- pulled over for speeding on Virginia Ave near the university and there is a 25 mph limit (which I didn't see) and I was going 40 (5 mph above the usual city limit of 35) and the policeman treated me like a criminal. No respect at all. It was terrible. I complained to the police dept (I wrote out a formal complaint) and the police superivisor said he listened to the tape and it was acceptable. I might have asked him if he would talk to his mother like that (I am old enough to be his mother) and he said yes. I thought he should have his mouth washed out with soap. :)
The members of the police force who treat people like tax paying citizens they are working to protect and serve -- with respect and dignity, innocent until proven guilty etc. -- are vanishing.
Brushstroke, as with any group of people, some police officers can be respectful and pleasant and some can be jerks. Too bad that second cop was such a jerk to you, but be glad he was just a smart a$$ and not one of those bully types who pull you out of your car and beat the crap out of you for no good reason. :)
A couple years ago I encountered a young, arrogant policeman like the one Kit describes. I know how frustrating it is, for sure! But Kit, it's ironic that you mention Reno cops, because it was in Reno that I overcame the blanket distrust and dislike for policemen I'd gained while living in Los Angeles and seeing "LA's finest" abusing their authority too many times.
I was visiting my friend's family in Reno in 1970. A large group of young, drunk punks had been harassing and threatening an elderly neighbor lady for several hours because she had complained about their loud music. Someone finally called the police and several motorcycle cops answered the call.
It really hit me how vulnerable those officers were, facing a drunken mob without so much as even a patrol car to hide behind. (Okay, so they had guns, but the punks probably did, too.) I really saw "protect and serve" in action for the first time since my opinion of police had soured. That experience made me lose my generalizations about police. Some are jerks, but many aren't, and their job isn't an easy one.
I was just thinking how what a person does -- his/her job, his good works in the world -- do not show why (the heart of) the works done.
For cops and ministers both. Some cops go into it to control and manipulate and use their gun permit, and some are truly the protect and serve type, of which I have had the privilege of knowing a few.
We had a neighbor in Citrus Heights CA who was a jerk, and he was trying to become a policeman but kept getting turned down. I spoke to one policeman about the testing to get into the police force there and he assured me there were rigorous personality stability tests in addition to the knowledge and physical endurance tests that needed to be passed.
(Too bad there aren't more tests to become a minister, but that's another discussion :) )
No matter how rude the police get with you, never respond in kind. Always say "Yes sir/Ma'am no sir/ma'am". Thank them for being vigilant and apologize for making them take up their time with you. Being at ALL argumentative just gets you a sure fire traffic ticket for "not giving turn signals" (that's a big one around here.. how they pull over suspected drug couriers on the interstate) or whatever pops into the cop's head.
Remember too that these guys can haul you down to the jail for no reason at all on your part and get away with it. Oh, sure they'll have to release you the next day and maybe without any charges but you've spent a night in jail for "questioning" or "suspicious behavior" or whatever the local court requires them to say to be able to do this. The police have a lot of power to make your life miserable even if it turns out OK in the end.
Just be cooperative and say yes sir, yes of course I will...etc
Its a waste of time to argue with them as they are kinda judge jury and executioner on the spot, its best to use your wisdom and disfuse any situation as much as possible
Often Police make rash decisions and also they go "with the flow" and make politically correct decisons, this means they often harass good people, ignore criminals, and are totally useless when you call them for help. You gotta learn how all Police act...
They dont want their time wasted ( they should be having coffee and doughnuts!)
They will do whatever all the local authority figures say is correct at the moment ( even if this means beating up an innocent citizen)
and they will basically get away with anything no matter how much it steps on the peoples rights unless they get caught red handed by a video tape or authoritative witness ( like in the Rodney King case)
This also applies to Security guards, Ive seen them beat the crap out of a patient because he didnt have any insurance and wanted to leave the emergncy room!
Best policy is, stay as far away from Police as possible, and buy a gun and protect yourself, call 911 if you can but remember theyre probably gonna finish their coffee before they come ...
Police have to err on the side of caution, especially with all the citizens who do carry weapons now and do react. Or those that had one bad experience with a cop and therefore all cops are bad.
I carry and if I get mouthy and at all troublesome, that handgun is not going to serve me in my favor, it being in the vehicle.
Yup, remain quiet, cooperative and let them do what they do.
I was with a friend once who got stopped and she got downright beligerant. I was sure we were both gonna get three hots and a cot for at least the night.
The old 'I pay your salary' anger isn't going to cut it.
And if there really is a problem in my neighborhood I want them to be checking on things, even if it's pi ssing people off in the process.
I had a relative who was a small-town cop for about 25 years. I used to ride around with him in his squad car - when that sorta thing was still allowed.
I got to see a bit more of the private side of that police force, and it wasn't always pretty. Lots of arrogance, lots of jocks, lots of disregard for the populace they were supposed to be serving, and - I found out later - lots of steroid abuse (it was legal then).
BUT, there was also the work they HAD to do. Like going on "DB"s (dead body runs), to collect the - often well decomposed - remains of somebody (usually a loner, old widow/widower with no family, or a homeless guy). Or going out to an accident scene to scrap the remains of some kid off the pavement. Or going out on a "domestic dispute" call (the most dangerous of all of 'em), and trying to get in between some drunk husband and his screaming wife - (only to then get attacked from behind by the WIFE).
But then they DID have a toteboard in the basement of the station where they put stars by the names of the cops who'd written the most tickets that week. :blink:
Bottom line is, we NEED a police force. People do not behave themselves without somebody keeping some sort of tabs on them. It's not many ( I guess the estimate is about 1% of the population is going to cause 90% of the crime) but somebody HAS to be around to enforce the law. And then there's all those really nasty jobs that nobody else is gonna do.
The problem is, it's still pretty easy for a cop to do an awful lot of WRONG stuff with impunity. Hell, we had a state trooper here in WA. that was pulling over good-looking women to fondle them and attempt to do whatever with them, and it was YEARS before he finally was brought to justice, despite a mountain of complaints and evidence against him.
So, yeah, what Sudo said. Watch what you say, always treat them with the utmost respect -whether or not they deserve it - and hopefully they'll just go away. As a last resort, there are channels for filing a complaint. But if you're in a smallish community, I'd be really reluctant to go there...
Brushstroke, I can understand why that would make you angry, but realize they had a responsibility to check your vehicle out because of the woman's complaint.... and we don't know what she said to them. She may be a nutcase, she may not be. Maybe she confused your car with someone else's - regardless, they are obligated to check it out. If they hadn't and you HAD been a stalker intent on causing her harm, then they'd be all over the news for ignoring her call.
It's a catch 22 situation for officers and there are way too many of those kinds of scenarios that they encounter every day.
I was married to a police officer for almost 8 years. It's a very sensitive subject for me. I can tell you they are extremely frustrated and it's aggravating being an officer, especially since they are always under scrutiny and attack. They can't win for losing. No matter what they do it isn't right, isn't safe, doesn't seem like a wise decision.....
Police officers have more and more rules and laws implemented every day that limit their effectiveness. CRIMINALS HAVE NO RULES!
They put their lives on the line EVERY DAY. EVERY traffic stop, EVERY domestic violence call, EVERY police call could put the officer in a lethal situation. They arrest bad guys all the time who are released back onto the streets because of the judicial system and because they have more rights than the arresting officers.
They ARE researching, testing and implementing new things every day. They have computers in their cars and can get information quicker, but it's still not quick enough. Police officers are expected to be perfect 100% of the time and it's just not a realistic expectation. There ARE going to be mistakes.
They have good days and bad days just like everyone else. They sometimes don't sleep well; they sometimes come to work with a head cold, in a bad mood, upset over their marriage, their family, their bills....in addition to that they live every single day of work, every single minute on high alert, always watching and hyper-sensitive to the fact that any situation could become life threatening for someone, including themselves. AND most of them do it because they love the job, they love feeling like they are effecting change and helping keep the country, their city/county safe for people. God knows it ain't because of the paycheck!!!
All officers are not bad. Yah, there's some bad ones, but I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.....
While visiting my family in New York last week, my brother told me about Russel Timoshenko.
Timoshenko was a cop for all of a year and a half when he and his partner pulled over a car that had plates registered to another car. After stopping, the driver shot Timoshenko twice in the face and fled. I'm sure that if the officers had been mistaken about the plates, or if there had been a good reason for the plates being wrong, then it would have been looked upon as harrassment, or arrogant cops. Maybe if Timoshenko and his partner, Herman Yan, had spent a little more quality time with their coffee and doughnuts, Timoshenko would be alive today.
Be kind to the Police. Even if you have reason to believe you've been wronged -- be kind.
Their's is a tough job, and belligerance doesn't help you at all (even if it DOES feel good at the time).
Two stories (both true) that happened to me, concerning me and my *lead-foot*:
1994 ----------- >>>
I was driving for a pre-press company and traveling every other day from Duluth to Minneapolis (150 plus miles). Down there on I-35W (heading into Mpls.), I saw a state cop on the other side of the road suddenly go into the grass on the median to turn around and come my way.
Yup -- He was after me, driving the company owned Toyota wagon. I knew I was speeding (the speedometer read 70 MPH), and the limit there was 65 MPH. After asking for my license, he said "Do you know how fast you were going??" I tried looked shame-faced, and said "Yea I know -- I was going 70 MPH."
The following conversation took place:
Trooper: No you weren't! I clocked you at 85 MPH!
Me: NO WAY !!! This speedometer read 70 MPH!!! Are you kidding me???
Trooper: Sir -- do you think I would be facetious in a situation like this??
Me (backing down): No sir, I don't think that at all, but this speedometer DID read 70 MPH.
Trooper: So your speedometer is off, huh??
Me: This is a company vehicle, it isn't mine.
He went back to his car, checked me (and the vehicle) out over his radio.
He came back to my car, handed me my license, and said:
"Mr. Miller --- I see you haven't had a speeding ticket yet. Let's keep it that way."
And he turned back to his car after telling me to have a good day. :)
2006 ------ >>>
I go back and forth between Minney-soda to Indiana all the time to visit family there.
Wisconsin cops are VICIOUS (more so than any other state I've driven in), for speed traps.
Coming back to Minnesota (if I recollect correct it was a Labor Day holiday), I got caught.
The Wisconsin troopers set up a bunch of laser speed detectors on an overpass,
and had 10 to 15 cops waiting down the road a mile away to catch offenders.
(Portage Wisconsin I-90/ 94 West --- if anyone cares to know the location!)
Came over a hill, saw all the cops parked on the side of the road, and one of them pulled out right behind me. I pulled over, and immediately got out my driver's license for him before he even got to the car. He (kinda) smiled when I handed it to him before he could ask for it, saying:
Trooper: Well, thank you! Usually I have to ask for these.
Me: Figured you'd need it, and you look busy. Save you some time for asking for it.
Trooper: Well -- we clocked you at 92 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. That's too fast!
Me: Well -- I was just going with the flow of traffic.
(I got a stern look here, and then said --- >>>)
Me: Guess I was following the wrong crowd, eh??
Trooper: Yup. You sure were (but he was smiling when he said it).
I got the ticket, cost me almost 300 bucks, but it coulda been worse.
If I'd been beligerant, he could have made my trip home much worse for me.
Even if you're in the wrong (like I was) --- a soft answer turns away wrath. :)
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Kit Sober
Sounds like you might live in Reno NV :)
Reno police had a tv show named after them and their stupidity (Reno911).
Rumor has it (no definite proof or verification) that some LA big wig was treated especially terribly and he vowed he would get back at the Reno police. Voila Reno 911.
I have been treated bad by police -- pulled over for speeding on Virginia Ave near the university and there is a 25 mph limit (which I didn't see) and I was going 40 (5 mph above the usual city limit of 35) and the policeman treated me like a criminal. No respect at all. It was terrible. I complained to the police dept (I wrote out a formal complaint) and the police superivisor said he listened to the tape and it was acceptable. I might have asked him if he would talk to his mother like that (I am old enough to be his mother) and he said yes. I thought he should have his mouth washed out with soap. :)
The members of the police force who treat people like tax paying citizens they are working to protect and serve -- with respect and dignity, innocent until proven guilty etc. -- are vanishing.
Holy Spirit just said, "no more tickets" for me.
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Linda Z
Brushstroke, as with any group of people, some police officers can be respectful and pleasant and some can be jerks. Too bad that second cop was such a jerk to you, but be glad he was just a smart a$$ and not one of those bully types who pull you out of your car and beat the crap out of you for no good reason. :)
A couple years ago I encountered a young, arrogant policeman like the one Kit describes. I know how frustrating it is, for sure! But Kit, it's ironic that you mention Reno cops, because it was in Reno that I overcame the blanket distrust and dislike for policemen I'd gained while living in Los Angeles and seeing "LA's finest" abusing their authority too many times.
I was visiting my friend's family in Reno in 1970. A large group of young, drunk punks had been harassing and threatening an elderly neighbor lady for several hours because she had complained about their loud music. Someone finally called the police and several motorcycle cops answered the call.
It really hit me how vulnerable those officers were, facing a drunken mob without so much as even a patrol car to hide behind. (Okay, so they had guns, but the punks probably did, too.) I really saw "protect and serve" in action for the first time since my opinion of police had soured. That experience made me lose my generalizations about police. Some are jerks, but many aren't, and their job isn't an easy one.
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Kit Sober
Linda,
I was just thinking how what a person does -- his/her job, his good works in the world -- do not show why (the heart of) the works done.
For cops and ministers both. Some cops go into it to control and manipulate and use their gun permit, and some are truly the protect and serve type, of which I have had the privilege of knowing a few.
We had a neighbor in Citrus Heights CA who was a jerk, and he was trying to become a policeman but kept getting turned down. I spoke to one policeman about the testing to get into the police force there and he assured me there were rigorous personality stability tests in addition to the knowledge and physical endurance tests that needed to be passed.
(Too bad there aren't more tests to become a minister, but that's another discussion :) )
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Sudo
Brushstroke,
No matter how rude the police get with you, never respond in kind. Always say "Yes sir/Ma'am no sir/ma'am". Thank them for being vigilant and apologize for making them take up their time with you. Being at ALL argumentative just gets you a sure fire traffic ticket for "not giving turn signals" (that's a big one around here.. how they pull over suspected drug couriers on the interstate) or whatever pops into the cop's head.
Remember too that these guys can haul you down to the jail for no reason at all on your part and get away with it. Oh, sure they'll have to release you the next day and maybe without any charges but you've spent a night in jail for "questioning" or "suspicious behavior" or whatever the local court requires them to say to be able to do this. The police have a lot of power to make your life miserable even if it turns out OK in the end.
sudo
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Steveo
Yes I agree with Sudo
Just be cooperative and say yes sir, yes of course I will...etc
Its a waste of time to argue with them as they are kinda judge jury and executioner on the spot, its best to use your wisdom and disfuse any situation as much as possible
Often Police make rash decisions and also they go "with the flow" and make politically correct decisons, this means they often harass good people, ignore criminals, and are totally useless when you call them for help. You gotta learn how all Police act...
They dont want their time wasted ( they should be having coffee and doughnuts!)
They will do whatever all the local authority figures say is correct at the moment ( even if this means beating up an innocent citizen)
and they will basically get away with anything no matter how much it steps on the peoples rights unless they get caught red handed by a video tape or authoritative witness ( like in the Rodney King case)
This also applies to Security guards, Ive seen them beat the crap out of a patient because he didnt have any insurance and wanted to leave the emergncy room!
Best policy is, stay as far away from Police as possible, and buy a gun and protect yourself, call 911 if you can but remember theyre probably gonna finish their coffee before they come ...
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Oakspear
My father is a retired cop and my brother is a homicide detective sergeant.
I find your generalization offensive.
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Shellon
Police have to err on the side of caution, especially with all the citizens who do carry weapons now and do react. Or those that had one bad experience with a cop and therefore all cops are bad.
I carry and if I get mouthy and at all troublesome, that handgun is not going to serve me in my favor, it being in the vehicle.
Yup, remain quiet, cooperative and let them do what they do.
I was with a friend once who got stopped and she got downright beligerant. I was sure we were both gonna get three hots and a cot for at least the night.
The old 'I pay your salary' anger isn't going to cut it.
And if there really is a problem in my neighborhood I want them to be checking on things, even if it's pi ssing people off in the process.
I wouldn't want their job, that's for sure.
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George Aar
I had a relative who was a small-town cop for about 25 years. I used to ride around with him in his squad car - when that sorta thing was still allowed.
I got to see a bit more of the private side of that police force, and it wasn't always pretty. Lots of arrogance, lots of jocks, lots of disregard for the populace they were supposed to be serving, and - I found out later - lots of steroid abuse (it was legal then).
BUT, there was also the work they HAD to do. Like going on "DB"s (dead body runs), to collect the - often well decomposed - remains of somebody (usually a loner, old widow/widower with no family, or a homeless guy). Or going out to an accident scene to scrap the remains of some kid off the pavement. Or going out on a "domestic dispute" call (the most dangerous of all of 'em), and trying to get in between some drunk husband and his screaming wife - (only to then get attacked from behind by the WIFE).
But then they DID have a toteboard in the basement of the station where they put stars by the names of the cops who'd written the most tickets that week. :blink:
Bottom line is, we NEED a police force. People do not behave themselves without somebody keeping some sort of tabs on them. It's not many ( I guess the estimate is about 1% of the population is going to cause 90% of the crime) but somebody HAS to be around to enforce the law. And then there's all those really nasty jobs that nobody else is gonna do.
The problem is, it's still pretty easy for a cop to do an awful lot of WRONG stuff with impunity. Hell, we had a state trooper here in WA. that was pulling over good-looking women to fondle them and attempt to do whatever with them, and it was YEARS before he finally was brought to justice, despite a mountain of complaints and evidence against him.
So, yeah, what Sudo said. Watch what you say, always treat them with the utmost respect -whether or not they deserve it - and hopefully they'll just go away. As a last resort, there are channels for filing a complaint. But if you're in a smallish community, I'd be really reluctant to go there...
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Belle
Brushstroke, I can understand why that would make you angry, but realize they had a responsibility to check your vehicle out because of the woman's complaint.... and we don't know what she said to them. She may be a nutcase, she may not be. Maybe she confused your car with someone else's - regardless, they are obligated to check it out. If they hadn't and you HAD been a stalker intent on causing her harm, then they'd be all over the news for ignoring her call.
It's a catch 22 situation for officers and there are way too many of those kinds of scenarios that they encounter every day.
I was married to a police officer for almost 8 years. It's a very sensitive subject for me. I can tell you they are extremely frustrated and it's aggravating being an officer, especially since they are always under scrutiny and attack. They can't win for losing. No matter what they do it isn't right, isn't safe, doesn't seem like a wise decision.....
Police officers have more and more rules and laws implemented every day that limit their effectiveness. CRIMINALS HAVE NO RULES!
They put their lives on the line EVERY DAY. EVERY traffic stop, EVERY domestic violence call, EVERY police call could put the officer in a lethal situation. They arrest bad guys all the time who are released back onto the streets because of the judicial system and because they have more rights than the arresting officers.
They ARE researching, testing and implementing new things every day. They have computers in their cars and can get information quicker, but it's still not quick enough. Police officers are expected to be perfect 100% of the time and it's just not a realistic expectation. There ARE going to be mistakes.
They have good days and bad days just like everyone else. They sometimes don't sleep well; they sometimes come to work with a head cold, in a bad mood, upset over their marriage, their family, their bills....in addition to that they live every single day of work, every single minute on high alert, always watching and hyper-sensitive to the fact that any situation could become life threatening for someone, including themselves. AND most of them do it because they love the job, they love feeling like they are effecting change and helping keep the country, their city/county safe for people. God knows it ain't because of the paycheck!!!
All officers are not bad. Yah, there's some bad ones, but I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.....
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Oakspear
While visiting my family in New York last week, my brother told me about Russel Timoshenko.
Timoshenko was a cop for all of a year and a half when he and his partner pulled over a car that had plates registered to another car. After stopping, the driver shot Timoshenko twice in the face and fled. I'm sure that if the officers had been mistaken about the plates, or if there had been a good reason for the plates being wrong, then it would have been looked upon as harrassment, or arrogant cops. Maybe if Timoshenko and his partner, Herman Yan, had spent a little more quality time with their coffee and doughnuts, Timoshenko would be alive today.
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dmiller
Be kind to the Police. Even if you have reason to believe you've been wronged -- be kind.
Their's is a tough job, and belligerance doesn't help you at all (even if it DOES feel good at the time).
Two stories (both true) that happened to me, concerning me and my *lead-foot*:
1994 ----------- >>>
I was driving for a pre-press company and traveling every other day from Duluth to Minneapolis (150 plus miles). Down there on I-35W (heading into Mpls.), I saw a state cop on the other side of the road suddenly go into the grass on the median to turn around and come my way.
Yup -- He was after me, driving the company owned Toyota wagon. I knew I was speeding (the speedometer read 70 MPH), and the limit there was 65 MPH. After asking for my license, he said "Do you know how fast you were going??" I tried looked shame-faced, and said "Yea I know -- I was going 70 MPH."
The following conversation took place:
Trooper: No you weren't! I clocked you at 85 MPH!
Me: NO WAY !!! This speedometer read 70 MPH!!! Are you kidding me???
Trooper: Sir -- do you think I would be facetious in a situation like this??
Me (backing down): No sir, I don't think that at all, but this speedometer DID read 70 MPH.
Trooper: So your speedometer is off, huh??
Me: This is a company vehicle, it isn't mine.
He went back to his car, checked me (and the vehicle) out over his radio.
He came back to my car, handed me my license, and said:
"Mr. Miller --- I see you haven't had a speeding ticket yet. Let's keep it that way."
And he turned back to his car after telling me to have a good day. :)
2006 ------ >>>
I go back and forth between Minney-soda to Indiana all the time to visit family there.
Wisconsin cops are VICIOUS (more so than any other state I've driven in), for speed traps.
Coming back to Minnesota (if I recollect correct it was a Labor Day holiday), I got caught.
The Wisconsin troopers set up a bunch of laser speed detectors on an overpass,
and had 10 to 15 cops waiting down the road a mile away to catch offenders.
(Portage Wisconsin I-90/ 94 West --- if anyone cares to know the location!)
Came over a hill, saw all the cops parked on the side of the road, and one of them pulled out right behind me. I pulled over, and immediately got out my driver's license for him before he even got to the car. He (kinda) smiled when I handed it to him before he could ask for it, saying:
Trooper: Well, thank you! Usually I have to ask for these.
Me: Figured you'd need it, and you look busy. Save you some time for asking for it.
Trooper: Well -- we clocked you at 92 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. That's too fast!
Me: Well -- I was just going with the flow of traffic.
(I got a stern look here, and then said --- >>>)
Me: Guess I was following the wrong crowd, eh??
Trooper: Yup. You sure were (but he was smiling when he said it).
I got the ticket, cost me almost 300 bucks, but it coulda been worse.
If I'd been beligerant, he could have made my trip home much worse for me.
Even if you're in the wrong (like I was) --- a soft answer turns away wrath. :)
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excathedra
You have to be respectful, you cannot win, even when you're right. Sorry to say.
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