"SP and A" has certainly been a playground for the Way over the years, Shaz. Given that the def. of "discerning of spirits" was a spiritual knowledge, not knowable by the 5 senses, I think we saw a consistent and probably predictable move towards expanding that to rely more on what a person gathered by their "5 senses" versus what they gathered by "spiritual" means, that was truly that kind of information. When the spiriitual know-dat is in short supply, waddya do? If I feel compelled to know that I know that I know when I don't know - yeah, black and white reliance on what I think I do "know".
It's reasonable I think to put two and two together, and get four. What that really means, is a whole nother question. "Judgment" is easy, anyone can say anything and come up with a reasoning for it. Is it right? Nother matter.
SP & A means whatever the particular hotshot at the time you're dealing with wants it to mean. And usually it means that they have it and you don't. And usually the facts don't line up with that. In other words, how it is used in practice is that if you are too lazy to investigate the facts, you can just rely on your "SP & A" if you have clout. If not, tough.
I mean, just look at the personal prophecy fiasco over in CES land they went through. "I saw so and so as a dog". "No, I saw her as a snake". "No, she's a can of Cheese Whiz". That can get real nutty real quick. I kind of look at all those revelation manifestations or gifts or whatever Christians call them as kind of like my underwear. Yes, I'm wearing some. No, you can't see it (and don't want to). They are for my personal benefit and comfort and to protect my private parts. You wear your own.
Although, just for sheer entertainment value, I'd consider starting a thread called "Spiritual Perception and Awareness: Your Revelatory Mind Pictures of TWI Leadership". That would be awesome.
Belle, I've done some research on this and understand their concern over his name…After running the name "Rudy" through my PFALDecoder Ring [and yes, I used the standard thoroughly & throughly procedure adopted by the Spiritual Perception & Awareness board] the following has been ascertained: Rudy has an etymological root in Middle English, from a declarative statement typically used by self-appointed clergy when referring to a man who is woefully negligent in paying them due respect, "Rude, he!"… As a matter of truth behind the fact, The Athletes of the Spirit Encyclopedia Appendix 666 ½ lists Rude & Cantankerous Spirits as the exact opposites of the Browbeaten & Obsequious Spirits.
[this post has been edited and formatted with a mathematical exactness & scientific precision...and a smattering of spiritualistic mumbo jumbo]
You see, here's is an interpretation that just doesn't quite have the correct SP & A. When you look at it a little closer, it contains the insightful background reference of a really mentally tough small guy who washes jock straps for the Notre Dame football team. You wouldn't want to call a guy that first of all because it might subconsciously plant a reference in his mind of being small, jock straps, or even worse, the mediocrity of Notre Dame as a football power.
I'd call it a brilliant move, if I was in the business of develoing a pristine fascade of being SP & A, while collecting large amounts of money and having free access to it, building a system to keep that money coming in, and collecting as many young willing women,and a few who weren't, who would be available to me whenever I wanted to satisfy myself, then I would create a system with which I could desparage and run out anyone I needed to who got too close to blowing my cover.
Developing a culture where someone could get destructive "information" about someone else, and use it against them publically or in certain circles, at the user's discretion, while dangling a carrot in front of all the minions that "they too could be like this and have these discerning powers", would be a perfect rouse to further my own interests.
Everyone would fawn over me as being the Supreme Poohbah, and I would have a foolproof way of getting rid of EVERYONE and ANYONE who threatened by empire.
Although, just for sheer entertainment value, I'd consider starting a thread called "Spiritual Perception and Awareness: Your Revelatory Mind Pictures of TWI Leadership". That would be awesome.
I know that feeling of being in the creative zone, and of having ideas and insights just kind of "pop" into the mind. I think it is an extension of what was learned before, and the brain finding new ways to make connections. Sort of like: A=B in one part of the brain and C+D=B in another, and one day you realize that you could use C+D instead of A, and it feels like the idea came out of nowhere. The brain just hadn't fired up those synapses yet. Yet they were there all the time. Or, to put it another way, Mozart had wonderful insights, but he didn't compose in rock and roll.
I have also had that "pick thoughts out of the ether" feeling stripped from me when I was ill with neurological Lyme disease. The difference is quite amazing, being unable to recall a word, a task, a face, or a location without deliberate effort, and often not at all. Having that ability return little by little feels nothing short of miraculous.
So what is SP&A? Revelation? Random synapse firing? Wishful thinking? Or all of the above, depending on the parson doing it and their motivations?
I agree, Wierwille set up a culture where there was a pecking order to who was the most "spiritually heavy," meaning that his SP&A trumped everyone else's.
I think it took him years to develop it. He taught people about how God spoke to him directly, establishing a firmer hold on revvy than most of us right from the beginning. Then he talked about going to the racetrack, and standing on street corners practicing discerning of spirits, etc. In other words, we can't keep up with his level, he's been honing this thing much longer than we have, we are neophytes.
I recall that in the early years of the "groovy Christian" era, he tried to discern spirits in someone who had fainted. Well, that kind of showy stuff can get you into trouble when it is learned that the person didn't eat well that morning or had the flu, so in later years he seemed to rely more on the kinds of revvy that no one could verify, like the "I know you spies are in here" revvy he did one year at the Rock, or the possessed country band I talked about earlier.
Anything to prove that the man of God still had more SP&A than anyone, and no one could prove otherwise.
In my pre-TWI days I wrote constantly-----poems, short stories, lyrics, music, impressions, etc.
It just seemed to ooze out of me.
Like the old blues song by Junior Parker said, "It's in him and it's gotta come out".
The Way, of course, convinced me that was an invitation to evil consequences.
Now, even after all these years of being gone, I still struggle to write anything "creative".
Maybe it was The Way that changed me, maybe it was a series of life events, or maybe that's just what time does to us all.
Now, I play a little bit of jazz and blues. Not very well, I'm afraid.
That's not an attempt at humility. I just have no desire to delude myself about my abilities.
But, I will add this: I play a style that is rather free-form. I don't make any conscious effort to memorize fancy riffs and runs and what-nots. I just play what ever I "hear" in my head. That's kind of a hard thing to explain to someone who has never been introduced to improvisation. So, anyway, maybe by doing that, I am simply expressing the same creativity that I used to years ago. I've simply found a new type canvas on which to paint.
Wow, Waysider – your post struck a nerve with me! I was very creative in my pre-TWI days – drawing, writing poetry & songs, teaching myself to play bass. I was honest enough to realize I didn't have talent in any particular field – but prided myself on the ability to figure out how to do something. Sort of a jack of some trades but master of none .
I used to think of myself as a kind of creative technician – where I admired something produced by an artist – then through some awkward-baby step-reverse-engineering process in my head I'd deconstruct the thing, analyze why the parts work so well together…from there I would mimic…and eventually get to messing around with some of my own ideas like a kid in a new playground…Some great stuff in your post # 57, Shaz – about being in the creative zone [matter of fact – it's crazy kewl as Socks would say] – more on that below.
IMHO, creativity and freedom [sort of go hand-in-hand dontcha think] were frowned upon in TWI. And similar to what you were saying, I got the distinct impression from mature grads that so much of my creative tendencies were nothing more than the "old man" sinful nature still hanging around. One day I threw all my sketchbooks, songs, and poetry in a 67 Chevy Malibu and hauled them to the dumpster behind a restaurant.
I definitely had mixed emotions while doing this – felt like I was freeing myself from some bad addiction, I guess – thinking I got such pleasure out of this stuff, but folks a lot smarter than me have showed me it's a dead-end road. And judging by the reaction of a few of the believers in the Twig when I told them what I had done – I felt reassured that I did the right thing. And perhaps the deathblow to my muse was deciding to go WOW. To lighten up for this "journey of faith" I gave my customized Fender Jazz Bass with a third Gibson Humbucker Pickup and Fender Bassman Amp to a believer in a TWI coffee house band.
Okay, this is the part where I should insert the cliché "now I'm working on reinventing myself" . Maybe what Shaz was saying comes into play as we shed the layers of artificiality we absorbed while in TWI:
...I know that feeling of being in the creative zone, and of having ideas and insights just kind of "pop" into the mind. I think it is an extension of what was learned before, and the brain finding new ways to make connections. Sort of like: A=B in one part of the brain and C+D=B in another, and one day you realize that you could use C+D instead of A, and it feels like the idea came out of nowhere. The brain just hadn't fired up those synapses yet. Yet they were there all the time. Or, to put it another way, Mozart had wonderful insights, but he didn't compose in rock and roll....
I'm thinking I never lost my muse – it's a matter of reconnecting with it…Excavating to the real self. Grease Spot is a great place for a number of reasons. One of them is the perception & awareness it inspires. I talked about sorting through my TWI experience in another post – an ambitious task even with the help of fellow Grease Spotters. And I'm sure we each have other means as well for dealing with the mental baggage. But I must say, I'm having a "Grease Spot moment" right now – I am conscious of something that has been awakened. Like digging through the rubble and catching a glimpse of something beneath the mess…a glimmer of hope…Don't do much writing or bass playing…but every once and awhile I still get into it…drives my wife nuts Honey, now I'm gonna try this…But chaknow in Grease Spot I've found a new type of canvas [borrowing from Waysider's post].
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waysider
I did an exhaustive word study.
(Ok---It was me that was exhausted not the study.)
What I discovered is that there is not one place in the KJV that the name "Rudy" appears.
Next I will endeavor an exhaustive search of the Revised Standard Edition.
Wish me luck.
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chockfull
SP & A means whatever the particular hotshot at the time you're dealing with wants it to mean. And usually it means that they have it and you don't. And usually the facts don't line up with that. In other words, how it is used in practice is that if you are too lazy to investigate the facts, you can just rely on your "SP & A" if you have clout. If not, tough.
I mean, just look at the personal prophecy fiasco over in CES land they went through. "I saw so and so as a dog". "No, I saw her as a snake". "No, she's a can of Cheese Whiz". That can get real nutty real quick. I kind of look at all those revelation manifestations or gifts or whatever Christians call them as kind of like my underwear. Yes, I'm wearing some. No, you can't see it (and don't want to). They are for my personal benefit and comfort and to protect my private parts. You wear your own.
Although, just for sheer entertainment value, I'd consider starting a thread called "Spiritual Perception and Awareness: Your Revelatory Mind Pictures of TWI Leadership". That would be awesome.
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chockfull
You see, here's is an interpretation that just doesn't quite have the correct SP & A. When you look at it a little closer, it contains the insightful background reference of a really mentally tough small guy who washes jock straps for the Notre Dame football team. You wouldn't want to call a guy that first of all because it might subconsciously plant a reference in his mind of being small, jock straps, or even worse, the mediocrity of Notre Dame as a football power.
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now I see
I'd call it a brilliant move, if I was in the business of develoing a pristine fascade of being SP & A, while collecting large amounts of money and having free access to it, building a system to keep that money coming in, and collecting as many young willing women,and a few who weren't, who would be available to me whenever I wanted to satisfy myself, then I would create a system with which I could desparage and run out anyone I needed to who got too close to blowing my cover.
Developing a culture where someone could get destructive "information" about someone else, and use it against them publically or in certain circles, at the user's discretion, while dangling a carrot in front of all the minions that "they too could be like this and have these discerning powers", would be a perfect rouse to further my own interests.
Everyone would fawn over me as being the Supreme Poohbah, and I would have a foolproof way of getting rid of EVERYONE and ANYONE who threatened by empire.
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waysider
I've already shared mine on a number of threads.
Feel free to paste it if you choose to.
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shazdancer
Hey Mr. Argyles,
I know that feeling of being in the creative zone, and of having ideas and insights just kind of "pop" into the mind. I think it is an extension of what was learned before, and the brain finding new ways to make connections. Sort of like: A=B in one part of the brain and C+D=B in another, and one day you realize that you could use C+D instead of A, and it feels like the idea came out of nowhere. The brain just hadn't fired up those synapses yet. Yet they were there all the time. Or, to put it another way, Mozart had wonderful insights, but he didn't compose in rock and roll.
I have also had that "pick thoughts out of the ether" feeling stripped from me when I was ill with neurological Lyme disease. The difference is quite amazing, being unable to recall a word, a task, a face, or a location without deliberate effort, and often not at all. Having that ability return little by little feels nothing short of miraculous.
So what is SP&A? Revelation? Random synapse firing? Wishful thinking? Or all of the above, depending on the parson doing it and their motivations?
Thanks for playing,
Shaz
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shazdancer
Hi nowyousee,
I agree, Wierwille set up a culture where there was a pecking order to who was the most "spiritually heavy," meaning that his SP&A trumped everyone else's.
I think it took him years to develop it. He taught people about how God spoke to him directly, establishing a firmer hold on revvy than most of us right from the beginning. Then he talked about going to the racetrack, and standing on street corners practicing discerning of spirits, etc. In other words, we can't keep up with his level, he's been honing this thing much longer than we have, we are neophytes.
I recall that in the early years of the "groovy Christian" era, he tried to discern spirits in someone who had fainted. Well, that kind of showy stuff can get you into trouble when it is learned that the person didn't eat well that morning or had the flu, so in later years he seemed to rely more on the kinds of revvy that no one could verify, like the "I know you spies are in here" revvy he did one year at the Rock, or the possessed country band I talked about earlier.
Anything to prove that the man of God still had more SP&A than anyone, and no one could prove otherwise.
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waysider
Re: Creativity
In my pre-TWI days I wrote constantly-----poems, short stories, lyrics, music, impressions, etc.
It just seemed to ooze out of me.
Like the old blues song by Junior Parker said, "It's in him and it's gotta come out".
The Way, of course, convinced me that was an invitation to evil consequences.
Now, even after all these years of being gone, I still struggle to write anything "creative".
Maybe it was The Way that changed me, maybe it was a series of life events, or maybe that's just what time does to us all.
Now, I play a little bit of jazz and blues. Not very well, I'm afraid.
That's not an attempt at humility. I just have no desire to delude myself about my abilities.
But, I will add this: I play a style that is rather free-form. I don't make any conscious effort to memorize fancy riffs and runs and what-nots. I just play what ever I "hear" in my head. That's kind of a hard thing to explain to someone who has never been introduced to improvisation. So, anyway, maybe by doing that, I am simply expressing the same creativity that I used to years ago. I've simply found a new type canvas on which to paint.
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T-Bone
Wow, Waysider – your post struck a nerve with me! I was very creative in my pre-TWI days – drawing, writing poetry & songs, teaching myself to play bass. I was honest enough to realize I didn't have talent in any particular field – but prided myself on the ability to figure out how to do something. Sort of a jack of some trades but master of none
.
I used to think of myself as a kind of creative technician – where I admired something produced by an artist – then through some awkward-baby step-reverse-engineering process in my head I'd deconstruct the thing, analyze why the parts work so well together…from there I would mimic…and eventually get to messing around with some of my own ideas like a kid in a new playground…Some great stuff in your post # 57, Shaz – about being in the creative zone [matter of fact – it's crazy kewl as Socks would say] – more on that below.
IMHO, creativity and freedom [sort of go hand-in-hand dontcha think] were frowned upon in TWI. And similar to what you were saying, I got the distinct impression from mature grads that so much of my creative tendencies were nothing more than the "old man" sinful nature still hanging around. One day I threw all my sketchbooks, songs, and poetry in a 67 Chevy Malibu and hauled them to the dumpster behind a restaurant.
I definitely had mixed emotions while doing this – felt like I was freeing myself from some bad addiction, I guess – thinking I got such pleasure out of this stuff, but folks a lot smarter than me have showed me it's a dead-end road. And judging by the reaction of a few of the believers in the Twig when I told them what I had done – I felt reassured that I did the right thing. And perhaps the deathblow to my muse was deciding to go WOW. To lighten up for this "journey of faith" I gave my customized Fender Jazz Bass with a third Gibson Humbucker Pickup and Fender Bassman Amp to a believer in a TWI coffee house band.
Okay, this is the part where I should insert the cliché "now I'm working on reinventing myself"
. Maybe what Shaz was saying comes into play as we shed the layers of artificiality we absorbed while in TWI:
I'm thinking I never lost my muse – it's a matter of reconnecting with it…Excavating to the real self. Grease Spot is a great place for a number of reasons. One of them is the perception & awareness it inspires. I talked about sorting through my TWI experience in another post – an ambitious task even with the help of fellow Grease Spotters. And I'm sure we each have other means as well for dealing with the mental baggage. But I must say, I'm having a "Grease Spot moment" right now
– I am conscious of something that has been awakened. Like digging through the rubble and catching a glimpse of something beneath the mess…a glimmer of hope…Don't do much writing or bass playing…but every once and awhile I still get into it…drives my wife nuts Honey, now I'm gonna try this…But chaknow in Grease Spot I've found a new type of canvas [borrowing from Waysider's post].
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