So, do you think that VP et al were all back at Hdqtrs saying "let's target all those hippies because they are out of bounds with sex and drugs" they will be easy to draw into the fold? Was it a conscious effort on their part?
Or do you think it was us hippies who were seeing that we were out of bounds and needed the structure (as well as father figure in many cases). I suppose it was a combination of the two. We were all at the right(wrong) place a the right (wrong?) time!!
No, I don't think they planned it.
It just oozed from their pores like sweat from a Sumo wrestler.
Got The book on Friday, read it through the weekend. Amazing book. Kris did a great job of writing her story......I could relate to a number of things in the book, abuse, the mindset, behavior of others and myself. It now seems like eons ago that all this happened, and the book brought it all back very vividly.
When I got involved with TWI, I was a very "Broken" person, spiritually, physically and emotionally. Looking for God because I knew from my childhood He truly was the answer and I had really ruined my life with alcohol, and I was very suicidal. I didn't want to accept the God of the church, I wanted something "different". I got "different"..........I got what I was looking for in The Way----or so I thought. A family! And God became very "real" to me. There were red flags along the way....things I didn't understand....well, Just like what Kris talks about in the book. Not understanding teachings, feeling like you weren't spiritual enough etc. Trying to "sell out" to the Word, but never feeling like I ever did. My drinking did decrease alot, though I was still drinking some. Feeling like I wasn't feeling....And What I was losing was "Me". Everything that was Me was either repressed or disposed of. Red Flags increased, but there was always a "reason" to ignore them. Took me to where Kris was.....so confused, and just not mentally stable at all.
What I found MOST interesting was at the end, when she talks about the exit counselors etc. But She compares leaving TWI to Leaving alcohol. And talks about as with Alcohol, you can't really work on issues until you put it down. And it's the same thing with TWI, cult addiction I believe she calls it (not sure if those were the exact words). I work with people who are trained counselors and they say the same thing, cults are addictive. Being that I a recovering addict, I can see that very plainly. I switched addictions...alcohol to the cult addiction. It made me feel different in the beginning.....changed my moods......Got that "high" feeling going to advances and classes. I was addicted to it. Whenever I felt stagnant, I just went to an event to get that feeling again. But as in all addiction, it turns on you......Good in the beginning......but leads to down a road of destruction. It was hard for me to understand cult addiction, but having her talk about it confirmed to me what it was to me. Hard to accept, because I didn't want to accept the truth.....I wanted it to be "all Good", and Be the family I never had, and to fix me. It was a total illusion......The truth is hard to accept, but the truth, as it has been said, will set you free.
She did an awesome job and I think that she was the one to write the book.....A groovy Christian from NY......Heard about that right off the bat when I got involved......and to hear someone who was there in the beginning relay her story....I thought it held a lot of credibility. It brought healing and insight to my life.
Avondale, I am so sorry to read about your sister, I love my little sister and would have been in total despair if something like that had happened in my family.
Newlife, thanks for sharing. Oddly enough, it was attending ACOA meetings after I left HQ and went on the field, that really opened my eyes and gave me great deliverance from the TWI mindset.
Avondale, I don't think VP "planned" for it. As we've discussed here before on this forum, his PFAL class was really B.G. Leonard's class, which after B.G. let VP teach his class, VP changed the name, copyrighted it, and started teaching it as his own.
So, it was the Word being taught that changed us, but it wasn't coming from the "heart" of our "teacher" - VP, he was teaching someone else's class. That's why the dichotomy - how could the "man of God" be such a prick in daily life when offstage? Simple, I don't think he really believed what he taught. I think he was very surprised how his ministry grew. Also, it was the hippie days, the sexual revolution was in full swing, and a lot of those early hippie girls from CA and the midwest, those 18, 19, in their twenties, it was probaby no big deal to do it with the "Man of God." But, the younger kids who grew up under VP's ministry, like Kris, who were only 13, 14 - young teens, had to be eased and manipulated into it. He was a predator, pure and simple.
I think the opening dialog in Kris' book does a great job of explaining it. Talking about the beginning of her involvement in TWI, a counsellor says: It must have been terrible. Kris replies: "No. It was beautiful, really. Glorious. Like riding the crest of a tsunami, like nothing any of us had ever felt. We were all swept away by it.
And, really, that's kind of the way it was.
As she then says,"then it changed, then it started to destroy us one by one."
I believe most of the people VP got in TWI were already born again. One thing the boomer parents did do, was take us little kids to Sunday School. As we got older, we quit going. But I think most of VP's followers were already born again as kids. Sure, many did get born again in PFAL, but as we've also read, many did fake SITing. I think many didn't get born again.
Many of us saw red flags, and dismissed them, because it was "the Word, the Word, nothing but the Word." Where would we go, we were the only ministry that had "the Word"? I know for me, it was easy to dismiss things as just a weird, one time thing, they really didn't mean that, a leader would never do that... I know for me, it took being on staff, seeing TWI up close, to realize, hey, just as most people who went in the corps had strange, dysfunctional backgrounds, now it was being run by the same people. I started to see what a bunch of petty, idiots were running the place. During the ROA, there was an incident - the one tiny little straw that broke the camel's back. So, I just told them, right before corps placements, here's where I'm going, I don't care if you like it or not, give me a corps assignment or not, I'm going on the field, I'm outta here...
well, That is what started changing My mindset......AA, NA.......It was a new way of thinking. I had a very difficult time thinking differently, but going to those meetings really helped me change that. It presented me with new ways of thinking about God to.
But just the every day living......being kind, considering other people and not making everything all about me. When I was in TWI, I was obsessed with being "someone"........being a great leader and maybe even some day being ordained. Oh My gosh, I so changed.
I am so not the person I was when I was in TWI. Only God bring restoration to our lives....and this recovering addict is very thankful and grateful for the miracle of what has happened in my life.
It just oozed from their pores like sweat from a Sumo wrestler.
And thank you Waysider for that incredibly descriptive and disgusting insight. :blink:
I find it strange that one can be addicted to a cult but then again a workaholic is addicted to work and I've seen some athletes addicted to a sport or aspect of it. I think perhaps we as humans need some sort of structure or groove that we can fit into and move in without having to apply a great deal of thought or what we perceive as extreneous effort. After a while whatever we were doing in twi became our little groove and it made us feel good to be in that groove. It gave us a sense of accomplishment...even if we were standing still.
Ahh Newlife - there it was, you nailed it. Ordination - the carrot on the stick for the men of the corps in TWI.
If you were faithful, went corps, and ran lots of classes, you too could be ordained. From there, maybe be a limb or region leader, or the ultimate pinnacle - coordinate the corps.
You don't know how many young men I met in the corps, whose great goal and drive was ordination. It was definitely the reward VP used to keep his young men in TWI.
I sometimes think it should have been the women being ordained instead of some of the men they ordained. For example, in her book, Kris was probably the one who should have been ordained. She had done wonderful things for other people and teaching them the Word through years.
I know there were men who married certain ordained women, just so they too would be ordained. Sad.
Eyes - LOL - yes, we were standing still, weren't we? Except, I never did find my "groove" in TWI - never did quite fit within the nine dots - as DM used to tell me.
I hope others will read this book too. Her account wasn't an exception - I think it was quite common of what many people went through in TWI - I think many people will be able to relate to a lot of what's in there. Maybe not the same experiences, but the way of thinking, the way people thought. The way TWI taught us to think.
...I hope others will read this book too. Her account wasn't an exception - I think it was quite common of what many people went through in TWI - I think many people will be able to relate to a lot of what's in there. Maybe not the same experiences, but the way of thinking, the way people thought. The way TWI taught us to think.
You've got that right!!!
Take the gender of the victims out of the picture - and what's left is the insidious way they raped our souls.
Thanks, Kristen. And thanks, again, Pawtucket, for keeping this site open and making stuff like this known to us.
"Losing the Way" is a kind kind of touch from the Lord showing His righteous judgment because it removes the veneer of "hearsay" that so many deceptions hide behind, at whatever depth of the soul they reside.
"Losing the Way" helps peel away the onion layers of deception that cloud the kindness of the soul. I think it will take for me many readings to "finish" it (if I ever will).
I heard someone once say how the Lord wanted him to help ex-twi people, but he didn't really want to do that. He wanted his "new" ministry. (ex-twi people are so messy because of the depth of hurt and dirt that needs to be cleaned out.)
And so many people were harmed by twi -- our families too were harmed by twi -- For my family my twi involvement made Jesus Christ look like a dangerous bad bet given my example of wagering my life and losing so dearly.
This book for me is a resource to get back to the life of my soul pre-twi - pre-destruction. Back to when smiles weren't only for "face value" but sprang from happiness of the soul, where delight with God is possible.
I just got this book for a birthday present from a dear friend who is also ex-twi. She said it is great and she could not put it down. She finished it at 2am Sunday.
After a while whatever we were doing in twi became our little groove and it made us feel good to be in that groove. It gave us a sense of accomplishment...even if we were standing still.
Like a needle playing a record. The record turns and the needle just stays in the groove.
Too bad twi's record had sat out in the sun too long... lots of skips and repeats.
Sunesis, being outside the nine dots is preferable anyway.
I loved Kristen's writing style. I felt as if I were with her through all of her tragedies. She wrote just like most of us were trained to think. I loved/hated those parts because I relived a major part of my life through her writing. " The assurance I seek is in the Word. I try to feel it. I try to grasp the meaning until my mind aches.", pg 109. How many of us have done that? Trying so hard to make things make sense, but of course, don't rely on our 5 senses. blah blah blah....
Kristen, I am so saddened that you endured all the physical, mental, and sexual abuse throughout most of your life. BUT I am very thankful that you were able to get professional help. Thank you for writing this book. Thank you for telling it like it hasn't been told since the first century. Sorry, I just had to say that. Seriously, people need to know the truth. If you help just one person see VP (and others) for the lowlife that he was, I think it is worth it.
I have said in other threads that TWI did not ruin my life, and it didn't. I made several decisions (based on TWI teachings or recommendations) that I have lived to regret however.
I am so sorry for what so MANY precious Christians and others suffered at the hands of The Way International organization's bigwigs and littlewigs, mog wannabees, etc..
I loved Kristen's writing style. I felt as if I were with her through all of her tragedies.
I think that is because she did as good a job as anyone possibly could of writing as she was feeling at the time all this was happening, and not as if she were looking back so many years later. I wrote a response on her blog that I could not call her a great writer ( or say she isn't a great writer) because I am nowhere near being a literary critic. But I may have to amend that thought a little, because such a style of writing...an honest style...obviously helps the reader live someone's biographical experience.
As for Kristen's testimony itself, I have no problems in the least accepting here accounts of abuse. And of course she makes it easier for others as well, because while I have long stated that I allow that it COULD have happened, now i really know that it DID.
I might add...and I think I mentioned this on some other thread...that I did have a minor lesson in "loosening up" in the 8th corps that was a little flag to me that abuse such as Kristen went through could have happened.
The forward was written by Lorna Goldberg, M.S.W., L.C.S.W.
She wrote among other things:
"Kristen was taught to 'speak in tongues,' and told that this hypnotic state was evidence of the Holy Spirit entering her life. ..."
What hypnotic state? This is a manifestion of holy spirit that we the believer operate, we are in full control of our mental faculties. Stop and start at will. No hypnotism involved.
An overdue response here; I think Oldies has a valid point, and that is what I was thinking of when I talked about Kristen's book not being a lecture. I really can't fault her in the least for the comment Oldies quoted.
That brings me to another point of understanding. I now can feel a little better how someone recalling fond memories from TWI can by recalling such fondness hurt someone like Kris or others who doesn't have such fond memories of the same times. I dont think anyone should be barred from recalling good times; no way. But I think any of us who do should think a little of those who may hurt. For example, let's restrain ourselves when we are tempted to respond to someone with "hey, I though things were really neat with that camping trip".; and if we still want to tell about it, save it for a time and place seperate from their testimony.
I had a little more reflection on this point, which I just expressed on the 8th corps thread. If we think about how someone nearby was hurting while we were having fun, self restraint wont be needed, or at least not as much.
I haven’t read every post in this thread so forgive me if I repeat some things that have already been said.
I just finished “Losing the Way” and found it well written and it definitely of interest. My biggest problem while reading it was trying to identify some of the people who she talked about. But I left early, she would have just come to Bloomington, IN as I was leaving the ministry and the fellowships there. So there were a lot of people I wouldn’t have known. So much for my discussion of the writing of the book.
As to her experiences, I really do stand amazed at what was going on that I didn’t know about. I am really very sorry that she had to go through any of this. No one should be treated like a thing.
I hope I don’t sound like I’m belittling her with this next statement, because I don’t mean to. I’ve learn a lot about hearing from God since I left TWI and find that He works much more in our hearts than anywhere else. As I read through her accounts I found a great many places that I believe God was working in her heart to get her out of there, but because of her teaching and our idolatry of VPW she was talked out of it and even told she was devil possessed. It is so sad to see someone taken advantage of in the name of Christianity. I am so glad she managed to get out. I have a feeling that if I hadn’t left in the mid-seventies, I would still be there.
I haven’t read every post in this thread so forgive me if I repeat some things that have already been said.
I just finished “Losing the Way” and found it well written and it definitely of interest. My biggest problem while reading it was trying to identify some of the people who she talked about. But I left early, she would have just come to Bloomington, IN as I was leaving the ministry and the fellowships there. So there were a lot of people I wouldn’t have known. So much for my discussion of the writing of the book.
As to her experiences, I really do stand amazed at what was going on that I didn’t know about. I am really very sorry that she had to go through any of this. No one should be treated like a thing.
I hope I don’t sound like I’m belittling her with this next statement, because I don’t mean to. I’ve learn a lot about hearing from God since I left TWI and find that He works much more in our hearts than anywhere else. As I read through her accounts I found a great many places that I believe God was working in her heart to get her out of there, but because of her teaching and our idolatry of VPW she was talked out of it and even told she was devil possessed. It is so sad to see someone taken advantage of in the name of Christianity. I am so glad she managed to get out. I have a feeling that if I hadn’t left in the mid-seventies, I would still be there.
I know someone who left Bloomington at that time, but you can't be him if you left then, because he came up to Indy where i saw a lot of him during my apprentice corps year.
I don't think you are belittling Kristen at all. Whether it was God working in her heart, or her better judgement, it was eclipsed by having to do what God says, which in her case was what the man of God said. From her point of view, saying no to staying in, or specifically to what she was told to do, was walking away from God.
Keith, you make a great point and aren't belittling Kris at all. Many of us saw weird "red flags" and, I guess it was cognitive dissonance, and thought, nah... that can't be...
I think she was young, VP had his sights on her and there was no way he was going to let her leave. Later, once he had used her, he didn't want to let her go because she was an initiate, a "special" one, one who could wear his ring. I think if he had lived and kept his health and Kris still hadn't "gotten it together" VP would have thrown her out, told everyone she was possessed, and it would have been as though she had never existed in TWI. She was young and he manipulated her masterfully.
I was able to figure pretty much who most of the characters were she wrote about. We know what's up with CG, it would be interesting to hear some of the others take and where they are now.
Keith, I think the short answer is that deviant sexual predators have an uncanny 'nose' for the vulnerable, those whose fences aren't solidly in place. People that have been abused simply don't have the equipment to escape on their own and the abuser senses this. It's heartbreaking to think that the most fragile...those on need of gentlest treatment, instead got carefully set up and abused in the most callous manner.
I loved the book. I, too, was able to identify a great many characters in the drama.
I had lots of red flags about Der Veg but kept getting stopped by thinking similar to what Kris expressed. And I wasn't being abused. Abuse submerges you in a unique 'fog' that makes clear thinking nigh impossible.
Evan!...Haven't seen you in awhile...How are you my friend?
...Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Groucho, I'm pretty sure he didn't sniff out the hidden reference I had to him on another thread in this forum.....
In reference to a remark I made early in this thread about my only problem with the book, yes, it is getting worn, but still together. I have ben re reading it, trying to keep in mind that it is not just about Kristen.
I loved Kristen's writing style. I felt as if I were with her through all of her tragedies. She wrote just like most of us were trained to think. I loved/hated those parts because I relived a major part of my life through her writing. " The assurance I seek is in the Word. I try to feel it. I try to grasp the meaning until my mind aches.", pg 109. How many of us have done that? Trying so hard to make things make sense, but of course, don't rely on our 5 senses. blah blah blah....
I know someone who left Bloomington at that time, but you can't be him if you left then, because he came up to Indy where i saw a lot of him during my apprentice corps year.
I don't think you are belittling Kristen at all. Whether it was God working in her heart, or her better judgement, it was eclipsed by having to do what God says, which in her case was what the man of God said. From her point of view, saying no to staying in, or specifically to what she was told to do, was walking away from God.
I know it wasn't me. I left TWI then, but I didn't leave Bloomington. I was born here, and and except for college, and WOW, have been here since 1955 when I was born.
I'm thankful that most people did thing I belittling Kristen. It was a good book and would be useful for anyone who has gone through any kind of religious abuse.
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Lifted Up
I see some connections here, even though I somehow dont feel too comfy discussing this, even though Kris has told about it. A child who is molested can be confused, knowing it doesn't feel right, but
potato
I'm gonna pass on clicking the link because I remember ck too well now, but I encourage newcomers to do so. ck's writing is a good example of what happens to your brain when you make a man into a god.
Lifted Up
Exactly the reasons why I for many years felt my experience in corps my final corps residence year didn't mean anything...very mild in comparison, the people involved were good, etc).
waysider
No, I don't think they planned it.
It just oozed from their pores like sweat from a Sumo wrestler.
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newlife
Hi Everyone,
Got The book on Friday, read it through the weekend. Amazing book. Kris did a great job of writing her story......I could relate to a number of things in the book, abuse, the mindset, behavior of others and myself. It now seems like eons ago that all this happened, and the book brought it all back very vividly.
When I got involved with TWI, I was a very "Broken" person, spiritually, physically and emotionally. Looking for God because I knew from my childhood He truly was the answer and I had really ruined my life with alcohol, and I was very suicidal. I didn't want to accept the God of the church, I wanted something "different". I got "different"..........I got what I was looking for in The Way----or so I thought. A family! And God became very "real" to me. There were red flags along the way....things I didn't understand....well, Just like what Kris talks about in the book. Not understanding teachings, feeling like you weren't spiritual enough etc. Trying to "sell out" to the Word, but never feeling like I ever did. My drinking did decrease alot, though I was still drinking some. Feeling like I wasn't feeling....And What I was losing was "Me". Everything that was Me was either repressed or disposed of. Red Flags increased, but there was always a "reason" to ignore them. Took me to where Kris was.....so confused, and just not mentally stable at all.
What I found MOST interesting was at the end, when she talks about the exit counselors etc. But She compares leaving TWI to Leaving alcohol. And talks about as with Alcohol, you can't really work on issues until you put it down. And it's the same thing with TWI, cult addiction I believe she calls it (not sure if those were the exact words). I work with people who are trained counselors and they say the same thing, cults are addictive. Being that I a recovering addict, I can see that very plainly. I switched addictions...alcohol to the cult addiction. It made me feel different in the beginning.....changed my moods......Got that "high" feeling going to advances and classes. I was addicted to it. Whenever I felt stagnant, I just went to an event to get that feeling again. But as in all addiction, it turns on you......Good in the beginning......but leads to down a road of destruction. It was hard for me to understand cult addiction, but having her talk about it confirmed to me what it was to me. Hard to accept, because I didn't want to accept the truth.....I wanted it to be "all Good", and Be the family I never had, and to fix me. It was a total illusion......The truth is hard to accept, but the truth, as it has been said, will set you free.
She did an awesome job and I think that she was the one to write the book.....A groovy Christian from NY......Heard about that right off the bat when I got involved......and to hear someone who was there in the beginning relay her story....I thought it held a lot of credibility. It brought healing and insight to my life.
If you haven't read it....Get it! Thanks Kris!!
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Sunesis
Avondale, I am so sorry to read about your sister, I love my little sister and would have been in total despair if something like that had happened in my family.
Newlife, thanks for sharing. Oddly enough, it was attending ACOA meetings after I left HQ and went on the field, that really opened my eyes and gave me great deliverance from the TWI mindset.
Avondale, I don't think VP "planned" for it. As we've discussed here before on this forum, his PFAL class was really B.G. Leonard's class, which after B.G. let VP teach his class, VP changed the name, copyrighted it, and started teaching it as his own.
So, it was the Word being taught that changed us, but it wasn't coming from the "heart" of our "teacher" - VP, he was teaching someone else's class. That's why the dichotomy - how could the "man of God" be such a prick in daily life when offstage? Simple, I don't think he really believed what he taught. I think he was very surprised how his ministry grew. Also, it was the hippie days, the sexual revolution was in full swing, and a lot of those early hippie girls from CA and the midwest, those 18, 19, in their twenties, it was probaby no big deal to do it with the "Man of God." But, the younger kids who grew up under VP's ministry, like Kris, who were only 13, 14 - young teens, had to be eased and manipulated into it. He was a predator, pure and simple.
I think the opening dialog in Kris' book does a great job of explaining it. Talking about the beginning of her involvement in TWI, a counsellor says: It must have been terrible. Kris replies: "No. It was beautiful, really. Glorious. Like riding the crest of a tsunami, like nothing any of us had ever felt. We were all swept away by it.
And, really, that's kind of the way it was.
As she then says,"then it changed, then it started to destroy us one by one."
I believe most of the people VP got in TWI were already born again. One thing the boomer parents did do, was take us little kids to Sunday School. As we got older, we quit going. But I think most of VP's followers were already born again as kids. Sure, many did get born again in PFAL, but as we've also read, many did fake SITing. I think many didn't get born again.
Many of us saw red flags, and dismissed them, because it was "the Word, the Word, nothing but the Word." Where would we go, we were the only ministry that had "the Word"? I know for me, it was easy to dismiss things as just a weird, one time thing, they really didn't mean that, a leader would never do that... I know for me, it took being on staff, seeing TWI up close, to realize, hey, just as most people who went in the corps had strange, dysfunctional backgrounds, now it was being run by the same people. I started to see what a bunch of petty, idiots were running the place. During the ROA, there was an incident - the one tiny little straw that broke the camel's back. So, I just told them, right before corps placements, here's where I'm going, I don't care if you like it or not, give me a corps assignment or not, I'm going on the field, I'm outta here...
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newlife
well, That is what started changing My mindset......AA, NA.......It was a new way of thinking. I had a very difficult time thinking differently, but going to those meetings really helped me change that. It presented me with new ways of thinking about God to.
But just the every day living......being kind, considering other people and not making everything all about me. When I was in TWI, I was obsessed with being "someone"........being a great leader and maybe even some day being ordained. Oh My gosh, I so changed.
I am so not the person I was when I was in TWI. Only God bring restoration to our lives....and this recovering addict is very thankful and grateful for the miracle of what has happened in my life.
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Eyesopen
And thank you Waysider for that incredibly descriptive and disgusting insight. :blink:
I find it strange that one can be addicted to a cult but then again a workaholic is addicted to work and I've seen some athletes addicted to a sport or aspect of it. I think perhaps we as humans need some sort of structure or groove that we can fit into and move in without having to apply a great deal of thought or what we perceive as extreneous effort. After a while whatever we were doing in twi became our little groove and it made us feel good to be in that groove. It gave us a sense of accomplishment...even if we were standing still.
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Sunesis
Ahh Newlife - there it was, you nailed it. Ordination - the carrot on the stick for the men of the corps in TWI.
If you were faithful, went corps, and ran lots of classes, you too could be ordained. From there, maybe be a limb or region leader, or the ultimate pinnacle - coordinate the corps.
You don't know how many young men I met in the corps, whose great goal and drive was ordination. It was definitely the reward VP used to keep his young men in TWI.
I sometimes think it should have been the women being ordained instead of some of the men they ordained. For example, in her book, Kris was probably the one who should have been ordained. She had done wonderful things for other people and teaching them the Word through years.
I know there were men who married certain ordained women, just so they too would be ordained. Sad.
Eyes - LOL - yes, we were standing still, weren't we? Except, I never did find my "groove" in TWI - never did quite fit within the nine dots - as DM used to tell me.
I hope others will read this book too. Her account wasn't an exception - I think it was quite common of what many people went through in TWI - I think many people will be able to relate to a lot of what's in there. Maybe not the same experiences, but the way of thinking, the way people thought. The way TWI taught us to think.
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T-Bone
You've got that right!!!
Take the gender of the victims out of the picture - and what's left is the insidious way they raped our souls.
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Kit Sober
Thanks, Kristen. And thanks, again, Pawtucket, for keeping this site open and making stuff like this known to us.
"Losing the Way" is a kind kind of touch from the Lord showing His righteous judgment because it removes the veneer of "hearsay" that so many deceptions hide behind, at whatever depth of the soul they reside.
"Losing the Way" helps peel away the onion layers of deception that cloud the kindness of the soul. I think it will take for me many readings to "finish" it (if I ever will).
I heard someone once say how the Lord wanted him to help ex-twi people, but he didn't really want to do that. He wanted his "new" ministry. (ex-twi people are so messy because of the depth of hurt and dirt that needs to be cleaned out.)
And so many people were harmed by twi -- our families too were harmed by twi -- For my family my twi involvement made Jesus Christ look like a dangerous bad bet given my example of wagering my life and losing so dearly.
This book for me is a resource to get back to the life of my soul pre-twi - pre-destruction. Back to when smiles weren't only for "face value" but sprang from happiness of the soul, where delight with God is possible.
Thanks, again, Kris.
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act2
I just got this book for a birthday present from a dear friend who is also ex-twi. She said it is great and she could not put it down. She finished it at 2am Sunday.
I will join the discussion after reading it.
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doojable
Like a needle playing a record. The record turns and the needle just stays in the groove.
Too bad twi's record had sat out in the sun too long... lots of skips and repeats.
Sunesis, being outside the nine dots is preferable anyway.
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act2
I loved Kristen's writing style. I felt as if I were with her through all of her tragedies. She wrote just like most of us were trained to think. I loved/hated those parts because I relived a major part of my life through her writing. " The assurance I seek is in the Word. I try to feel it. I try to grasp the meaning until my mind aches.", pg 109. How many of us have done that? Trying so hard to make things make sense, but of course, don't rely on our 5 senses. blah blah blah....
Kristen, I am so saddened that you endured all the physical, mental, and sexual abuse throughout most of your life. BUT I am very thankful that you were able to get professional help. Thank you for writing this book. Thank you for telling it like it hasn't been told since the first century. Sorry, I just had to say that. Seriously, people need to know the truth. If you help just one person see VP (and others) for the lowlife that he was, I think it is worth it.
I have said in other threads that TWI did not ruin my life, and it didn't. I made several decisions (based on TWI teachings or recommendations) that I have lived to regret however.
I am so sorry for what so MANY precious Christians and others suffered at the hands of The Way International organization's bigwigs and littlewigs, mog wannabees, etc..
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Lifted Up
I think that is because she did as good a job as anyone possibly could of writing as she was feeling at the time all this was happening, and not as if she were looking back so many years later. I wrote a response on her blog that I could not call her a great writer ( or say she isn't a great writer) because I am nowhere near being a literary critic. But I may have to amend that thought a little, because such a style of writing...an honest style...obviously helps the reader live someone's biographical experience.
I might add...and I think I mentioned this on some other thread...that I did have a minor lesson in "loosening up" in the 8th corps that was a little flag to me that abuse such as Kristen went through could have happened.
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Lifted Up
An overdue response here; I think Oldies has a valid point, and that is what I was thinking of when I talked about Kristen's book not being a lecture. I really can't fault her in the least for the comment Oldies quoted.
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Lifted Up
I had a little more reflection on this point, which I just expressed on the 8th corps thread. If we think about how someone nearby was hurting while we were having fun, self restraint wont be needed, or at least not as much.
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Keith
I haven’t read every post in this thread so forgive me if I repeat some things that have already been said.
I just finished “Losing the Way” and found it well written and it definitely of interest. My biggest problem while reading it was trying to identify some of the people who she talked about. But I left early, she would have just come to Bloomington, IN as I was leaving the ministry and the fellowships there. So there were a lot of people I wouldn’t have known. So much for my discussion of the writing of the book.
As to her experiences, I really do stand amazed at what was going on that I didn’t know about. I am really very sorry that she had to go through any of this. No one should be treated like a thing.
I hope I don’t sound like I’m belittling her with this next statement, because I don’t mean to. I’ve learn a lot about hearing from God since I left TWI and find that He works much more in our hearts than anywhere else. As I read through her accounts I found a great many places that I believe God was working in her heart to get her out of there, but because of her teaching and our idolatry of VPW she was talked out of it and even told she was devil possessed. It is so sad to see someone taken advantage of in the name of Christianity. I am so glad she managed to get out. I have a feeling that if I hadn’t left in the mid-seventies, I would still be there.
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excathedra
hi, keith
vp weirwille himself said
"things are to be used. people are to be loved."
but he did not practice that
sad
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Lifted Up
I know someone who left Bloomington at that time, but you can't be him if you left then, because he came up to Indy where i saw a lot of him during my apprentice corps year.
I don't think you are belittling Kristen at all. Whether it was God working in her heart, or her better judgement, it was eclipsed by having to do what God says, which in her case was what the man of God said. From her point of view, saying no to staying in, or specifically to what she was told to do, was walking away from God.
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Sunesis
Keith, you make a great point and aren't belittling Kris at all. Many of us saw weird "red flags" and, I guess it was cognitive dissonance, and thought, nah... that can't be...
I think she was young, VP had his sights on her and there was no way he was going to let her leave. Later, once he had used her, he didn't want to let her go because she was an initiate, a "special" one, one who could wear his ring. I think if he had lived and kept his health and Kris still hadn't "gotten it together" VP would have thrown her out, told everyone she was possessed, and it would have been as though she had never existed in TWI. She was young and he manipulated her masterfully.
I was able to figure pretty much who most of the characters were she wrote about. We know what's up with CG, it would be interesting to hear some of the others take and where they are now.
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TheEvan
Keith, I think the short answer is that deviant sexual predators have an uncanny 'nose' for the vulnerable, those whose fences aren't solidly in place. People that have been abused simply don't have the equipment to escape on their own and the abuser senses this. It's heartbreaking to think that the most fragile...those on need of gentlest treatment, instead got carefully set up and abused in the most callous manner.
I loved the book. I, too, was able to identify a great many characters in the drama.
I had lots of red flags about Der Veg but kept getting stopped by thinking similar to what Kris expressed. And I wasn't being abused. Abuse submerges you in a unique 'fog' that makes clear thinking nigh impossible.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Evan!...Haven't seen you in awhile...How are you my friend?
...Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
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Lifted Up
Groucho, I'm pretty sure he didn't sniff out the hidden reference I had to him on another thread in this forum.....
In reference to a remark I made early in this thread about my only problem with the book, yes, it is getting worn, but still together. I have ben re reading it, trying to keep in mind that it is not just about Kristen.
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excathedra
i guess i'm going to have to get that book
thank you sunesis and evan for your recent posts
and you know what else
i felt weird from the veryfruckingbeginning but i still bought it
in a way
jesus
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waterbuffalo
Exactly!
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Keith
I know it wasn't me. I left TWI then, but I didn't leave Bloomington. I was born here, and and except for college, and WOW, have been here since 1955 when I was born.
I'm thankful that most people did thing I belittling Kristen. It was a good book and would be useful for anyone who has gone through any kind of religious abuse.
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