Ten Years Ago -- July 1998

[JavaJane]

Rest assured, under the facade of niceness and propriety of the current twi, all things are just as rotten as before. It just looks nicer on the surface.

I don't know about you all, but I would rather deal with the evil that is in your face than the sneaky evil that looks pretty on the outside.

Reminds me of Little Red Riding Hood - she knew what the wolf was when he was out in the woods, but when he was dressed up like her grandma, it was a lot harder to see she was looking at a predator.

[chockfull]

Krys,

Thanks from the bottom of my heart for the truth and details in your account. I read in a book somewhere that people do not hide what is appropriate, they only hide what is inappropriate. And this is one in a whole series of stories of the inappropriate being hidden. Thanks for exposing it so those who wish to be informed can make decisions with more knowledge.

I missed reading that on the benefits card for a Foundational Class under the "more harmony in the home" section - "use your wife as a sexual playtoy to be passed around, causing insurmountable psychological damage". Or on the prosperity section "have your belongings stolen and destroyed". Or on the believing and confidence section "be threatened with handguns by mooks for not going along with hotshots breaking laws, attempting bribes, and betraying spiritual authority".

Did you ever find out from the DIL about how she was recruited for this? Or how the wrong doctrine was introduced to her? Did others condone the behavior and encourage her? King Okus just approach directly? Some of those details are the most hidden usually as they can prove collusion and collaboration. There are some stories of those in high places serving as pimps and what's the official court term "procurators" for these acts. It's amazing how deep the rabbit hole actually goes on some of this stuff.

[A la prochaine]

Krys,

Thanks from the bottom of my heart for the truth and details in your account. I read in a book somewhere that people do not hide what is appropriate, they only hide what is inappropriate. And this is one in a whole series of stories of the inappropriate being hidden. Thanks for exposing it so those who wish to be informed can make decisions with more knowledge.

I missed reading that on the benefits card for a Foundational Class under the "more harmony in the home" section - "use your wife as a sexual playtoy to be passed around, causing insurmountable psychological damage". Or on the prosperity section "have your belongings stolen and destroyed". Or on the believing and confidence section "be threatened with handguns by mooks for not going along with hotshots breaking laws, attempting bribes, and betraying spiritual authority".

Did you ever find out from the DIL about how she was recruited for this? Or how the wrong doctrine was introduced to her? Did others condone the behavior and encourage her? King Okus just approach directly? Some of those details are the most hidden usually as they can prove collusion and collaboration. There are some stories of those in high places serving as pimps and what's the official court term "procurators" for these acts. It's amazing how deep the rabbit hole actually goes on some of this stuff.

King Okus... That's perfect!!

Chockfull,

Very well put.

Krys,

From what I have read and understood here, your DIL was/is emotionally traumatized. I doubt anyone ever gets over something like this ... they just have to learn to cope with it and hopefully get some serious help.

She was so used, yet probably believed she was 'loved' by these things we called MOGS. When the whole thing came crashing down, what she perceived as being real was suddenly a 'fairy tale' and having probably believed she was the princess in that fairy tale, suddenly the tables were turned and she became the wicked witch and told go home.

It is no wonder to me that she behaved the way she did when she was with you that short time before departing for the 'bus' guy.

Edited July 25, 2008 by A la prochaine

[rascal]

Chockfull, I don`t want to answer for Krys` dil, but I can tell you what a girl shared with me about being recruited. Just let me know if it is appropriate here on Krys` thread.

[JavaJane]

rascal, I would be interested in knowing, as well.

[rascal]

moved to new thread to avoid derail.

Edited July 25, 2008 by rascal

[rascal]

moved

Edited July 25, 2008 by rascal

[JavaJane]

I think this is a very important topic on its own, Rascal... Maybe you should move it just so it would be easier for people looking for this information to locate in the future.

Just a suggestion.

[rascal]

Done.

[krys]

This thread contains an historic story I related - - but that doesn't make it "my" thread.

I'm glad for the input you all have had on it. I agree that a separate thread detailing the manipulations would be a good idea. I think it makes sense that the different "nasties" be separated so that they can judged on their own "merits"!

[rascal]

Thanks Krys. You and Jane are correct. I will delete my posts now that they are on a new thread. I just didn`t want to horn in or deflect from your already heart wrenching account. It needs to stand on it`s own, alone.

[JeffSjo]

A reason so many of those mini-mogs who were partaking in the "fruits" of leadership among our sisters in the faith fled like rats leaving a sinking ship after lcm was banished, is that it established a precedent that even at the most highest level, there was no true protection that twi could provide if someone spilled the beans on them and took them to court. I doubt Rosie would have footed the bill for their legal defense even if they were the trunk coordinator.

Likewise, offshoots would be a natural fit and an easy transition for them to assimilate into, everything stays the same, no apologies needed, except vp is admired at a distance. Everyone I've ever met who partook in the free sex movement of twi, whether married, male or female, still do it, the only difference is they do it also with unbelievers now.

All the contents of this thread (Thank you Skyrider and Krys especially) along with this one post (Thank you now I see) I think explains more of the TWI breakups than anything I have ever read.

How can perverted, twisted folks like very top TWI leadership do anything else besides see the benefits of scattering like rats and keeping TWI splinters seperated and at odds with each other. @#$%^&*!

Yeah TWI splinters, just keep your lasciviousness hidden until the day the Lord rewards you all as promised, you bastards.

But in the meantime, I am very thankfull that heart rending stories like this can be read by all. At least it can help to snap some out of the flames, I hope.

THANK YOU GREASESPOT CAFE!

(a little added for clarity)

Edited September 18, 2009 by JeffSjo

[waysider]

Bump

Oops!

I Didn't see Jeff had brought it back.

Edited September 18, 2009 by waysider

[waterbuffalo]

Bump

Oops!

I Didn't see Jeff had brought it back.

Thanks for bringing this back, Jeff. I had never read it.

Kept wondering several pages back, if the DIL was mimicing some of her mother's behaviors which they, the MOGS, would have known about from her bio. Maybe that was why she was one of their targets.

Thanks Krys for talking about this very painful subject. So happy your son is doing well and is successful and has moved on as much as he seems to have done. I agree with another poster who wishes the DIL well. I also hope she gets the therapy that she most certainly would need after these abuses.

[skyrider]

There are plenty of places to start, but I think I'll begin with that particular event. It is pretty easy to fill in the history when and where it's needed.

It was common practice to bring the Corps in at an advanced class to assist with a number of things, particularly the branch meetings. The particular people mentioned by Skyrider were my kids, my son and his wife.....and another man. This other man was also married, but unlike my kids, he had children so it was decided he would go to hq and his wife would stay at Gunnison with the children.

My DIL had been in loy's stable for quite some time by this point in time - - and apparently he'd called for her several times already during the week or 10 days that they had been at hq. The other man - - a Corp buddy-brother had gotten wind of my DIL's special "calling" and apparently approached her also for "relief" as he had been without his own wife for 10 days or so....and....it was up to her to "take care of the man (men) of god" donchaknow! Something happened and they were caught. My son blew his stack! She was serving everybody but him, and he was outraged because he knew it was just plain wrong.

These 3 parties were brought together into loy's office together with Rev. wc and head of safety....Mr. Linder. (Hello mister linder ). There was a revolver on loy's desk and mister linder ( ) opened his jacket coat to reveal his loaded shoulder holster.

There were many things said...but my son told me that he grew sicker and sicker (in his spiritual gut) and needed to set things to rights. So according to him, he pounded his own fist down on loy's desk and "ripped him a new one".

Rev wc was shocked and saddened. He called loy out because several years prior to this incident, loy had apparently promised him (Rev wc) that these sexploits had ended and would be no more....but obviously it wasn't so. My son grew sicker....now realizing for the first time that everything he had gotten wind of previously was totally true.

Even after all this - - loy begged them to stay.....he offered to change their interim assignment from Way Disciple to remaining at HQ to coordinate the Way Disciple program. My DIL begged my son to agree so they could stay (and she could remain Most Favored Female) but this required that my son give up his exclusive claim on his own wife and "join in" claiming for himself any one of the upper echelon women for himself. Obviously my son said "No" and then there was nothing to be done.

They were dismissed to their quarters to pack their belongings and escorted by Safety (with a pistol on the front seat of the car) to the nearest airport (I don't remember anymore which one it was) and put up in a motel nearby until the following morning's flight home (to New Jersey)

The other young man was put on a Greyhound bus and sent local back to Gunnison. They could have sent him express for the bulk of the distance but decided not to because this way they bought themselves plenty of time to get to his wife, squirrel her away to CO limb hdq where they could fill her head with all kinds of untruths so that they could retain her (and their children) in "the program".

And....back in 1998, the phones were ringing off the walls and twi went into major DAMAGE CONTROL.

When I revisit this timeframe, it really pi$$es me off to see all those major players lying and covering for martindale.....ROSALIE RIVENBARK, JOHN RENOLDS, J. L1NDER, HOWARD ALLEN, DON WIERWILLE etc. in such bald-faced fashion.

And, after you peel off the obvious layer or those "in the know"......what about other security guys? receptionists and others with walkie/talkie radios? president's cabinet? wanda? emogene? others? How deep does this cover-up go?

I sometimes think that L1nder, or someone close by, is planning to write a book on all this?

Imagine.....the leverage gained in holding ALL THIS DIRT over the heads of twi's directors?

What would it be worth? Millions??

[Ham]

interesting that the queen of Filth who let this *little* matter happen on her watch still reigns over the organization..

same "board member" whose solitary vote sends lawyers screaming at churches and organizations with the slightest resemblance to their precious name..

[Ham]

and part of *your* *abundant sharing* pays for her salary. Healer of the *ministry*? So far it seems her skill set is limited to being able to pick out targets for the lawyers..

[waysider]

Well, as long as they're "kinder and gentler" everything will be alright.

[Ham]

Maybe loy and she were married in a previous life. Looking at both of them together, they kinda look like Ahab and Jezebel, do they not?

[skyrider]

interesting that the queen of Filth who let this *little* matter happen on her watch still reigns over the organization..

same "board member" whose solitary vote sends lawyers screaming at churches and organizations with the slightest resemblance to their precious name..

Ham.....in 1998, martindale was president, rosalie was vice pres. and reynolds was sec/treas

When lawyers deposed rosalie in 2000.....she admitted that she knew of martindale's sex predation as early as 1995.... and those court documents are on file.

BUT......even that is absurd!!!!! Imo, she lied again. She is so adept at lying that it doesn't faze her in the least. There is no doubt in my mind that she knew of martindale's sex predation that started at least by 1982 or thereabouts....maybe earlier. Even my wife had a not so pleasant encounter of his advances in 1983!!!!! I mean, c'mon.....the 1984/85 athlete of the spirit production dancers and the sexual/sensual imagery in it....etc. etc.

Like others, I know more details.......but will not divulge confidences. Some women have moved on with marriages, kids and all....and have no desire to be mentioned in the same context with martindale's conquests.

Twi is evil......period.

Edited September 19, 2009 by skyrider

[Ham]

hmm.. adept in lying..

must be one of the new "qualifications" for "leadership" in the church or something..

I must have missed it somewhere..

The ONLY reason she still has a job- MONEY. How many millions did the organization sacrifice to settle the little All*n court case? Money- lawyers- and she had the organizations blind backing. As an organization, I don't think they would have survived the trial. Then there was talk about criminal negligence and such..

and what did the money buy? Practically- it bought them "another day".. and kept a group intact where business could run as USUAL..

I wonder how many staff and "participants" still don't know about these accounts..

They made their intentions well known with the a**ens. Put up with sexual harrasment and/or *rape* as condition of employment, or we will list you mark and avoid, label you as possessed and send you off packing in the middle of the night..

that is the reality of the situation. Then came the lawyers..

Personally, it is hard for me to even imagine someone can be that evil.. but the facts bear it out.

[Ham]

I'd add.. was she WORTH what twi paid? Kinda over-priced, if you ask me..

its another case of *your* abs at work. What did it buy..

well, it bought a cushy job (apparently) for life, and immunity from CRIMINAL prosecution for this kind of filth.. to sit free, on top of the organization.. every whim (or possible lust) satisfied..

I could think of far better uses for several million dollars..

[skyrider]

that is the reality of the situation. Then came the lawyers..

In reality.....twi would NOT clean their own swamp.

Twi-lawyers had to ADVICE THEM WITH STRONG LANGUAGE to get rid of martindale......within months, he was ousted.

Now ain't twi "spiritual"??????????????? :blink:

[Ham]

I think for all that money, all they got to show for it was a gold plated turd..

[Ham]

n reality.....twi would NOT clean their own swamp.

yeah, it took the lawyers to do it. Considering the general opinion wayfers I knew had of lawyers, it is *interesting* that lawyers ended up having more *scruples* than god's supposed "elect"..

Edited September 19, 2009 by Ham