There is more to tell, and I intend to tell it but I've been a tad bit under the weather. Maybe by the weekend I'll finish it up.
One question: can you tell us what action, if any, you know of that Rev. WC might have taken after this incident? Did he leave HQ then?
Yes, he did. At the end of that class, he left.
I was at HQ during this time. Staffers worked extra jobs during this time. I remember that 3 people were sent packing, but I never knew why. We were working about 70 hours a week, so nobody had time to even talk or ask questions. I remember after the class was over, we were waiting to hear LCM talk about why the people left. Nothing was said, which was very odd because LCM used lunchtime to talk about all of the copouts who didn't want to be full-time ministers for the Lord Jesus Christ. After the class, I had heard from others how disappointing it must have been for Rev. Linder to have to escort people who he helped get in the Corps off grounds. It's interesting how people instantly went to "they did something bad" even though we heard nothing.
But we did hear about WC and his family. LCM went off about him and how they had been trying to get him and his family "up to par spiritually". He really made WC seem like a huge slacker. But then again, I personally heard LCM ranting and raving about FC and how she was requesting her granddaughter to go to the SNS. FC's son and DIL had graduated and were being recognized at the service. FC wanted her granddaughter to be able to see it. By the way LCM was raving, you would have thought that FC had done something beyond horrible. I was in the auditorium while they were taking pictures of the graduated Corps. LCM called Don W, Donna, Howard, and others for an impromptu "meeting" right there in front of everyone. We could hear everything. He said that FC was putting a dark cloud on the whole graduation.
It's just so bizarre that I thought I was at the ultimate place on earth doing God's will. I think had many more people heard what happened, it may have caused another exodus. How fitting since TWI was in the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word.
I remember when P*ul All*n and F*rn All*n left, we were told they were evil and making horrible accusations against the Trustees. Rosalie was there, and she let it all happen. God bless her little heart. She's a worthless piece.
But we did hear about WC and his family. LCM went off about him and how they had been trying to get him and his family "up to par spiritually". He really made WC seem like a huge slacker.... LCM called Don W, Donna, Howard, and others for an impromptu "meeting" right there in front of everyone. We could hear everything. He said that FC was putting a dark cloud on the whole graduation.
That is so the pot calling the kettle black, I know for a fact LCM was a real pervert in relationship to WC's family, he has a lot to answer for, like his "father" in the word will, what a sham, LCM is so lucky that he's not spending the next 20 years in a federal penitentiary.
To think a man has a wonderful wife - only touched by him and then she is summoned and submits. And a man, not you but like yourself, finds out his wife is servicing the MAN who taught him the Bible!!! How horrible and confusing is that?
This story is your son's story Krys and your poor DIL lost her mind as a result.
Ya know, in the Bible not much allows divorce but adultery is a deal breaker. I can see why - the pain and confusion is horrific. Now, add to that it is YOUR spiritual leader!!!!
Rummie, there were men honored to eat the crumbs from the kings table? OMG!!!! I know one of the ordained straight guys told me of a WOMAN who considered it an honor for her daughter to be touched by MOGGIE and actually brought her daughter to HIM after she herself serviced him. (We were as bad as the Jim Jones and Koersh people) And people like WD still decline the stories like some kind of arm chair Perry Mason? Barf
And this is probably the big reason why women were taught so diligently to submit to their own husbands, to leadership, to submit-subject-obey. If you are brainwashed to never ever say "no" in any way to your own husband, it just gets more normal to say "yes" to any leadership that comes along.
I distinctly remember DLM in their stupid "principles of a believer's family" class saying that "As a wife, I try to not have very many opinions. I find out what my husband's opinion is and line my thinking up with his."
With Women taught to SERVICE and men taught to TAKE no wonder there was confusion and every evil work.
I recall a guy in my corps asked me to SNS. While sitting next to him he slides his hand over and starts to grab/rub my -pp-le/ breast. I yelled in a whisper to him to knock it off. And he said it was no different than touching my elbow.
So, I told him to touch my elbow then.
And another time in a WAY HOME, my corps brother came into my room, where I was sleeping, and jumped on top of me as if I was going to turn in delight and squeal in acceptance, I fought him off me and prayed to God for help. He passed out as he was drunk. But ya know what he had said to me? "I see the way you look at me corps nights so I know you want me." Truth be told, I barely noticed he was alive. But he was apparently schooled to think "we" all wanted "it".
I told JAL. (Cause I already had a crime happen to me via a top guy in the ministry.) And it, with my corps bro, was down played like "boys will be boys" but he dang near forced himself -- which would have been RAPE...
I did not need this crap. But apparently some women wanted it. I was NOT one of them
Rum runner, absolutely, I am glad that you brought things up from the guys pov. How absolutely crushing to discover that your wife was required to service the mogs....to be explained your choices at gun point. Good lord, look at the heartbreaking account of poor Tom Mullins when he couldn`t get his wife to leave the mog. I agree the fellows suffering and indignities could be every bit as humiliating and shattering. I just tend to post from my own understanding as a gal.
Absolutely Watered Garden. We were indoctrinated to submit completely. To not consider, to stuff any emotions or dislike down way down deep and pretend that we didn`t feel or cry or greive.... because we all knew that our emotions, our 5 senses were what Satan would use to deceive, to lead ourselves, our husbands, and our children away from God and to everyones destruction.
We HAD to depend on our husbands and leaders to keep us in line, because our greater emotions made us unstable. If you disagreed, if you disobeyed, you were stiff necked, and God wouldn`t bless you...Damned right we obeyed, damned right. God forbid you were a strong woman, or voiced your opinion either. I had two friends thrown out through the years for being lesbians on no greater evidence than that.
The claim (as many times has been said) that *no one held a gun to our heads* is so lacking in empathy and understanding. A gun or any other form of physical force.....most of us could and possibly would have fought back against. One just COULDN`T be true to themselves or stand up when things felt wrong or when the action required to be loathsome beyond what one felt was beyond their endurance to handle...when it was opresented as GOD`S requirements....the refusal of which would remove one from his hedge of protection....would result in satan allowed access to your life....of impending death or worse...possession.....One just brokenly sucked it up, put all questions on the back burner, and recited retemories to mask and smother the protests....to shut out the part of us that was screaming denial inside.
thanks much for sharing for us all to read, the true facts behind what happened 10 years ago! i can understand how it must have completrely rocked and rearranged your world, and how shattering it was to your son, and his marriage!!.......to have firsthand experience of being totally on the "right side" of an issue where "god's word is at stake", and yet, be attacked viciously and publicly by the hounds of hell, chased out of "the promised land" with those dogs snarling and biting at your heels,...... distinguishes you and your son as yet two more survivors of the fascistic, religious system which is twi!!.......it's like watching a movie about wwII, in which another hapless family of hardworking, faithful germans is hurled out of der vaterland by the gestapo simply because they knew too much about the "man behind the curtain" and demanded justice from those who had absolutely no concept of what the words "truth and justice" mean!!.......make no mistake fellow greasespotters!........the doofus from okie and his gang of "trustees" would have gleefully allowed linder to use those weapons had they thought they could have gotten away with it!!......and linder would have joyfully enforced "god's will" if the "suggestion", "tantamount to a command", had been given!!
as far as the clapps are concerned, their "stand" was meaningless, imo, and a mere 12 years late!!........this was no "surprise" to them!!........they knew full-well the personal history of their fuhrer!!......that was made quite plain to them, as well as all the rest of the "top leadership" of the reichstadt in 1986-87!!.......they chose to willfully ignore the facts then, and again in the spring of 1989, when they swore their loyalty to the doofus from okie and da boyz in da hoods!!........and again in the mid-nineties, when they supposedly were "promised" by their king, that he would change his personal perversities, and straighten up and fly right........again, willfully ignoring the destroyed lives and the myriad lies proclaimed as "the present truth" to their "itching ears"!!.......all the while faithfully and loyally partricipating in the slander, defamation, and human carnage of the various "purges" their mogs were directing to cover their religious reign of terror!!........how many innocents did they agree to "mark and avoid" during their years at the top there in rome city???.........how many lies did they shout from their indiana campus ivory tower??
what was the "great stand" they took??........running to the welcoming arms of CFF!!........where they now rule their own ranks of twi refugees........upholding the "great truths of god's word" taught them by their "father-in-the-word" as if nothing ever happened in their vaterland of "god's word" that is worth APOLOGIZING for!!.......the same phoney, putrid doctrines are held forth by them as if they took some great stand for "truth" by finally leaving their happy, harmless little cult........only to jump right into an offshoot spawned and nurtured by the same poisoned "spiritual DNA" that gave birth to twi!!
how many children were bruised and beaten under their watch at rome city??........how many "cop outs" were publicly and privately defamed, lied about, and ridiculed by their loyal, wagging tongues?......how many victims were led to the king's private chamber by boob and doody moynihan under their very noses??.........how many "devils" were "cast out" by their self-deluded operation of the "manifestations"??.......how many grossly perverse and deviant "doctrines" were proclaimed as "god's word" by their faithfully foul "teachings"??............and, how many real changes to all of these "great spiritual truths, not known since the first century" have they made in their long march of "rightly dividing the word of god" during these last 10 years??...........and, perhaps most importantly, how many apologies have they made to those whom they despitefully used and abused during their 12 years of faithful service behind their "walls of zion in the promised land of the present truth"??..............HOW MANY, WAYNE AND FERN??.........HOW LONG WILL YOU PERSIST IN DELAYING, AND THEREFORE DENYING, JUSTICE TO THOSE YOU WILLINGLY AND WILLFULLY SACRIFICED UPON THE ALTAR OF YOUR IDOLS??
thanks again krys, for the honest, genuine stand you took, along with your son, not only then, but also during these last 10 years!..........one thing i've learned during my 50+ years on this earth, is that the words of that old adage, "what goes around comes around", are generally true........."it all comes out in the wash", eventually!.......and i'm truly glad your son is prospering and enjoying his "new" life and family.........truly, god can "restore the years the locusts have eaten"........i'm looking forward to hearing the final pieces to the puzzle you have yet to share with us, and i'm grateful to pawtucket for providing you a safe haven to tell "the other side of the story" here at our favorite cyber-cafe!..................................peace.
Then do these guys STAY in the marriage being as they were deceived into a lying arranged marriage? Where had they known they NEVER would have agreed? It must change some of their feelings towards these woman who were in the stable willingly and never told their husbands they were sent by the stable master "to get them to marry them."
How does a man deal with that?
If I were he? I think I would be very depressed and ultimately leave if counseling did not work... Cause I would NOT believe that "God joined us together." Just because pappa in the word performed a ceromony? I do not think so. I looked all through the Bible on the yoked - joined stuff and I think it speaks more of the "match making" then the words of a "legal" ceromony or goverment document. I think God does have a hand in bringing people together. So, this whole --send that guy with potential my party girl to marry --is not what I call God joining together.
Or after they marry. They begin to service the Moggie. Adultery is a way out of marriage. But TWI never recognized it as such. It was living on a higher plane and meeting the needs of the moggie... which eventually became every corps guy with a stifie (excuse me)
And this is probably the big reason why women were taught so diligently to submit to their own husbands, to leadership, to submit-subject-obey. If you are brainwashed to never ever say "no" in any way to your own husband, it just gets more normal to say "yes" to any leadership that comes along.
I distinctly remember DLM in their stupid "principles of a believer's family" class saying that "As a wife, I try to not have very many opinions. I find out what my husband's opinion is and line my thinking up with his."
and yeah, how perverse !!! how stupid that statement is that WG told us about
--
and kryssie i love you
--
and
That is so the pot calling the kettle black, I know for a fact LCM was a real pervert in relationship to WC's family, he has a lot to answer for, like his "father" in the word will, what a sham, LCM is so lucky that he's not spending the next 20 years in a federal penitentiary.
With each and every DETOUR......wherein wierwille redirected the hearts and lives of those hungering and thirsting for truth in pfal........planting "signs" of manmade doctrine and theology whereby he established a corps program that siphoned off an inner circle of "leaders" where lust, greed, power, and pride dominated any and all thought processes or godly action......clearing the way by 1986 and yet further, by 1998, where martindale and "the board" found themselves in desolate surroundings.
The pyramid structure in twi.......and subsequently found in twi's offshoots......drives the system of NO accountability in any sense of true doctrine and/or practice. The "man in charge" is always right.......even if he's wrong......and its his way or the highway.
Today?.......Martindale is an ousted ex-president of twi, sent packing by twi's lawyers to salvage the mess. Don W. died a couple of years later. Howard sits in retirement and visits wierwille's grave, about 100 yds away, often.
My husband told me our first year of marriage that he already knew what HIS opinions were, he was interested in MINE. If he wanted to hear his own opinion all over again, he'd just talk to himself!
We were told in our pre-marriage counselling that we should consider the reasons we would get divorced... My husband told the clergy that adultury would be the only reason he would consider... the clergy told us that the only reason he would consider getting a divorce from his spouse would be if she decided to leave twi. Funny that adultery wasn't on his list... BUT TWI WAS.
My husband and I talked about that later on that night after the counselling session and decided that our marriage was going to rank a lot higher in priority than twi. I think that was one of the first glimpses of light we both had about what twi was really like.
And this was only a few years ago - WAY after the lawsuits.
We were told in our pre-marriage counselling that we should consider the reasons we would get divorced... My husband told the clergy that adultury would be the only reason he would consider... the clergy told us that the only reason he would consider getting a divorce from his spouse would be if she decided to leave twi. Funny that adultery wasn't on his list... BUT TWI WAS.
My husband and I talked about that later on that night after the counselling session and decided that our marriage was going to rank a lot higher in priority than twi. I think that was one of the first glimpses of light we both had about what twi was really like.
And this was only a few years ago - WAY after the lawsuits.
Systematically and strategically, wierwille down-played and virtually eliminated ADULTERY in the believer's consciousness and replaced "renewed mind compartmentalization" in its place. Even thoough adultery is...... ONE OF THOSE "BIG SINS" LISTED IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.... wierwille's sexual predation and lust-filled habits had to eliminate it.
Jimmy Doop was telling me how shocked or maybe disillusioned he and his wife were when wierwille wanted to know more about "free love" CA style. They were not expecting that!!!!
i'm not saying anything about what happened later, but just about that initial time, meeting, hanging out, whatever
The first 2 weeks after the kids returned home were relatively peaceful.
I expected my son would take some time off - - he's was entitled IMHO. He had worked without benefit of vacation for almost 3 years and with all that happened so quickly that day, I would have been glad to float him and carry him for a month if necessary - - but he would have none of that.
He manned the phone(s) for a couple of days, but on Monday he phoned his old boss. He became an excellent worker after he grew out of his middle teens. He was well skilled in his arena and willing to add to his skill set, he always had a pleasant manner about him, and he had grown to NOT become lazy. So - on Tuesday he had an interview and on Thursday morning reported for work.
After that, every day he got up and went to work by day. When he came home he's man the phone(s) until bedtime. It payed off, though. I don't know how many he managed to get out of the organization...but I know most folks listened intently to his narrative.
His wife, on the other hand, my beloved DIL, walked from room to room seemingly in circles. I wanted to grab her, physically wrap my arms around her and soothe her - but there was something about her demeanor that kept me at arms length. She kept the house looking good, shopped and cooked each night's meal, but wasn't able to do anything more than that. I wasn't expecting anything "more" in quantity certainly - for she had certainly been through the wringer too...but she was not able to do anything except that which she could do on autopilot. I tried showing her several times about the laundry machines....I know...a washer is a washer....and a dryer is a dryer...but we all know that they have their idiosyncracities and we can usually figure them out. She could not. She didn't even put it together that the washer's directions were written on the inside of the top lid! I don't want to put her down. I don't mean to make her look stupid or silly - - rather she was like one of those fish in the ocean that is stunned by a physical sound or some such other.......and they just hang there. She was truly shell-shocked I believe.
You must understand that in no way am I attempting to put her down or take anything away from her. She was not the person I'd come to know - - and love. She was another personality altogether. Our son was still out son. He had grown up of course in the time since we’d seen him last, but he was still the same person - - not just more of a man.
During the month of July, my son found an apartment, signed the lease and was ready to move in the beginning of August. My DIL did not go with him. Instead, she went to visit the “man on the bus” and lived with him for quite some time….I understand they were eventually married. I have no idea where they settled down to live.
After those 2 weeks came the final insult! Their belongings from Gunnison were delivered.
I told you that they had to rent a storage unit, and that mister liner drove the truck to our street right in front of our house and they led him to it. .
As soon as possible after everything was brought to New Jersey, they collected the boxes and brought them to the house to look through them and sort. I wish you could have seen some of these cartons. The cardboard was weak and looked like it had been used and abused. Some of them weren’t even sealed, just closed over with that flap-inside-a-flap that we use sometimes when it’s only temporary storage.
One of the boxes was very large – on the order of a large (for it’s time) TV perhaps. That one held all their heavy winter clothing. Nothing was folded. You know that when you put seasonal things away, you fold them wither you launder them or not….so that you can get more in the box and take care to cram the box as full as possible. None of these was taken care of in the slightest. Everything “winter” was crammed into this one box. Boots, coats, sweaters - - everything. Many things were missing. They both had the best quality hiking boots, only 1 boot made it’s way “home”. One of their superior “greater than 20 below” sleeping bags had gone missing.
My DIL never had much costume jewelry. Her father always made an excellent living and consequently she had the “real stuff”! She found only 1 diamond stud (there were possibly 2 pair). Her jewelry box was no where around, but what was returned of her jewelry was just dumped into one of the boxes. [Ladies remember how carefully we always treated our chains so they wouldn’t kink?]
They were anxiously waiting for their stuff because they wanted their computer. We had given them one for a combination birthday/anniversary/Christmas gift – and it was not cheap! [not like today, for sure] They were looking for their contact list and a number of other things they wanted to take another look at.
They put the whole thing together and turned it on and nothing happened. No lights, no bumping pinging noises…..nothing. At first I thought perhaps somebody had forgotten to lock the disks (I don’t remember if that was still necessary at that time or not…but the thought ran through my mind) Of course, it was always possible that it had also been manhandled and did not make the trip well so we brought it down to the computer repairman downtown. He called within 2 hours of our dropping it off with the reason it wouldn’t operate - - somebody had reformatted the hard drive.
Not erased everything…..reformatted everything. If you’re reading and don’t know that much about computers, reformatting wipes everything off the disk. Erasing it still allow it to “remember” that it was a computer- - - please now install my software so I can do something useful for you. This box didn’t know if it was a computer or a refrigerator! As if that wasn’t bad enough, even the software that had come installed on their computer came with a hard copy set. Microsoft Office was a $400+ program then. There were other programs we or they purchased and used, but I don’t recall anymore what they were.
Now - - it makes sense to me that somebody would do that.. Instead of hunting around and looking for files that you don’t want duplicated anywhere - - especially your list of contacts, just set the thing on format and you don’t have to worry about doing any thing more - - it will carry out your last command while you go and finish ransacking their stuff! Their monitor and printer arrived intact but none of their computer supplies did. [None of their other office supplies either….not even a roll of scotch tape - or a single staple.]
We knew they had office and computer supplies galore because we kept them well stocked. When you have to live on $1 a day, you ask your family and friends to send you such stuff for birthday and other gifts just so you can come out even!
After the second week in August, when my son moved into “their” apartment [about 4 blocks away from this very place coincidently], I never saw my beloved DIL again. I still miss her - - at least the young woman she was. My son moved out. He took some of our “extra” furnishings and incidentals and their stored wedding gifts and began his new life.
Why was all of this so hard on me? I don’t know. It didn’t really happen to me - - but it hit me so very hard. I don’t know how you who were, indeed, physically and otherwise abused managed to keep it so “together” today. Maybe it has to do with it happening to our kids. You know – I don’t mean to take anything away from you who also endured, but I wonder - - - you can do whatever you want to me and I’ll figure out a way to survive and endure it…….but if you touch one of my kids, I’ll go for your throat and have your bowels for lunch [figure of speech!]. Maybe that’s what it is.
I do know this, however……………
When you’ve been **** e d by the Way, you’ve been through and through and throughly f**ked!
The first 2 weeks after the kids returned home were relatively peaceful.
I expected my son would take some time off - - he's was entitled IMHO. He had worked without benefit of vacation for almost 3 years and with all that happened so quickly that day, I would have been glad to float him and carry him for a month if necessary - - but he would have none of that.
He manned the phone(s) for a couple of days, but on Monday he phoned his old boss. He became an excellent worker after he grew out of his middle teens. He was well skilled in his arena and willing to add to his skill set, he always had a pleasant manner about him, and he had grown to NOT become lazy. So - on Tuesday he had an interview and on Thursday morning reported for work.
After that, every day he got up and went to work by day. When he came home he's man the phone(s) until bedtime. It payed off, though. I don't know how many he managed to get out of the organization...but I know most folks listened intently to his narrative.
His wife, on the other hand, my beloved DIL, walked from room to room seemingly in circles. I wanted to grab her, physically wrap my arms around her and soothe her - but there was something about her demeanor that kept me at arms length. She kept the house looking good, shopped and cooked each night's meal, but wasn't able to do anything more than that. I wasn't expecting anything "more" in quantity certainly - for she had certainly been through the wringer too...but she was not able to do anything except that which she could do on autopilot. I tried showing her several times about the laundry machines....I know...a washer is a washer....and a dryer is a dryer...but we all know that they have their idiosyncracities and we can usually figure them out. She could not. She didn't even put it together that the washer's directions were written on the inside of the top lid! I don't want to put her down. I don't mean to make her look stupid or silly - - rather she was like one of those fish in the ocean that is stunned by a physical sound or some such other.......and they just hang there. She was truly shell-shocked I believe.
You must understand that in no way am I attempting to put her down or take anything away from her. She was not the person I'd come to know - - and love. She was another personality altogether. Our son was still out son. He had grown up of course in the time since we'd seen him last, but he was still the same person - - not just more of a man.
During the month of July, my son found an apartment, signed the lease and was ready to move in the beginning of August. My DIL did not go with him. Instead, she went to visit the "man on the bus" and lived with him for quite some time….I understand they were eventually married. I have no idea where they settled down to live.
After those 2 weeks came the final insult! Their belongings from Gunnison were delivered.
I told you that they had to rent a storage unit, and that mister liner drove the truck to our street right in front of our house and they led him to it. .
As soon as possible after everything was brought to New Jersey, they collected the boxes and brought them to the house to look through them and sort. I wish you could have seen some of these cartons. The cardboard was weak and looked like it had been used and abused. Some of them weren't even sealed, just closed over with that flap-inside-a-flap that we use sometimes when it's only temporary storage.
One of the boxes was very large – on the order of a large (for it's time) TV perhaps. That one held all their heavy winter clothing. Nothing was folded. You know that when you put seasonal things away, you fold them wither you launder them or not….so that you can get more in the box and take care to cram the box as full as possible. None of these was taken care of in the slightest. Everything "winter" was crammed into this one box. Boots, coats, sweaters - - everything. Many things were missing. They both had the best quality hiking boots, only 1 boot made it's way "home". One of their superior "greater than 20 below" sleeping bags had gone missing.
My DIL never had much costume jewelry. Her father always made an excellent living and consequently she had the "real stuff"! She found only 1 diamond stud (there were possibly 2 pair). Her jewelry box was no where around, but what was returned of her jewelry was just dumped into one of the boxes. [Ladies remember how carefully we always treated our chains so they wouldn't kink?]
They were anxiously waiting for their stuff because they wanted their computer. We had given them one for a combination birthday/anniversary/Christmas gift – and it was not cheap! [not like today, for sure] They were looking for their contact list and a number of other things they wanted to take another look at.
They put the whole thing together and turned it on and nothing happened. No lights, no bumping pinging noises…..nothing. At first I thought perhaps somebody had forgotten to lock the disks (I don't remember if that was still necessary at that time or not…but the thought ran through my mind) Of course, it was always possible that it had also been manhandled and did not make the trip well so we brought it down to the computer repairman downtown. He called within 2 hours of our dropping it off with the reason it wouldn't operate - - somebody had reformatted the hard drive.
Not erased everything…..reformatted everything. If you're reading and don't know that much about computers, reformatting wipes everything off the disk. Erasing it still allow it to "remember" that it was a computer- - - please now install my software so I can do something useful for you. This box didn't know if it was a computer or a refrigerator! As if that wasn't bad enough, even the software that had come installed on their computer came with a hard copy set. Microsoft Office was a $400+ program then. There were other programs we or they purchased and used, but I don't recall anymore what they were.
Now - - it makes sense to me that somebody would do that.. Instead of hunting around and looking for files that you don't want duplicated anywhere - - especially your list of contacts, just set the thing on format and you don't have to worry about doing any thing more - - it will carry out your last command while you go and finish ransacking their stuff! Their monitor and printer arrived intact but none of their computer supplies did. [None of their other office supplies either….not even a roll of scotch tape - or a single staple.]
We knew they had office and computer supplies galore because we kept them well stocked. When you have to live on $1 a day, you ask your family and friends to send you such stuff for birthday and other gifts just so you can come out even!
After the second week in August, when my son moved into "their" apartment [about 4 blocks away from this very place coincidently], I never saw my beloved DIL again. I still miss her - - at least the young woman she was. My son moved out. He took some of our "extra" furnishings and incidentals and their stored wedding gifts and began his new life.
Why was all of this so hard on me? I don't know. It didn't really happen to me - - but it hit me so very hard. I don't know how you who were, indeed, physically and otherwise abused managed to keep it so "together" today. Maybe it has to do with it happening to our kids. You know – I don't mean to take anything away from you who also endured, but I wonder - - - you can do whatever you want to me and I'll figure out a way to survive and endure it…….but if you touch one of my kids, I'll go for your throat and have your bowels for lunch [figure of speech!]. Maybe that's what it is.
I do know this, however……………
When you've been **** e d by the Way, you've been through and through and throughly f**ked!
Krys... I hope you are getting some sense of something... I don't know, maybe closure, maybe catharsis, from sharing this very significant series of events as it was for you and your son and his then wife.
Indeed, you've described an incredible mean-spiritedness on the part of TWI.
It certainly makes complete sense that you would have been upset because of what happened to your cubs, as it were...
Rocky - I don't know if you'd call it closure. Many things have settled in my brain as the result of organizing my thoughts. Catharsis???? dunno about that. I don't care about that so much as I care about exposing them for what they were/are. If I've done that, I'm satisfied and I got my money's worth out of this website!
This is what happened to us. Read what happened to many others.....conclusion - - draw your own, but if you aren't convinced about the screwd, lewd, mean spirits and whatever else was evil about the organization, then I'm going to have to work a whole lot harder!
I remember in the 1980's hearing several people speak of the "spoils" system, that when the army of Israel conquered another country, city, whatever, they took everything, and how that was God rewarding them for being His people and doing His will. Never mind that Saul got in deep dang for doing the same, and there are other incidents in the OT where Israel was took to keep their hands off, "flew upon the spoil" and got very negative results! I definitely got the impression that God doesn't like that sort of behavior. And yes, TWI, He is keeping track of all this.
How great their sorrow will be when they learn of God's judgment of their socalled righteousness.
Krys - this last part of the story is heartbreaking for sure.
TWI stole - stole from you son and his ex. What's worst - it appears they were trying to break them.
I'm so glad that your son is well - it speaks highly of how you raised him. Your DIL, on the other hand was humiliated down to her soul.
Has Linder ever called your son and apologized? Has he asked for forgiveness? (In case you can't tell - my sarcasm meter is in the red zone here.)
I wonder if he's read your account here and made excuses for his behaviour.
Do you think he has this "proverb" on the wall of his office:
"If you didn't see me, I didn't do it."
Now here's an interesting thought. Linder is still head of security, Rosie is still the president. The Moneyhands are still there, along with so many others.
I wonder how different TWI really is at it's core if these same miscreants are at the helm.
I wonder how different TWI really is at it's core if these same miscreants are at the helm.
I think Java Jane answered that question Doojable!!!
And I'd have to concur ... the answer is NO NO NO NO NO!!!
Krys,
MY God!! I'm just sick to my stomach over this whole mess. And you are absolutely right...when TWI F**Ks with you ... you know you've been F**ked!!
Watered Garden had great insight about how in the OT when such things were done God was not too happy... and in those days, this was done to those 'not in the fold' sorta' speak. Wonder how God feels when it's done to those who love Him??
If there's a God and if there's a judgement day... man... it REALLY sucks to be those MOGS!
Krys,
Thank you for sharing your story here and revealing the true nature of those TWI leaders.
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skyrider
Ten years ago, in early July of 1998........the advanced class was running at twi's hq. To help oversee the new students, inresidence corps were brought in from camp gunnison as branch coordinators.
krys
Thanks you abi; now I see. Yes it takes a long time to recover from something like this. I know I'm not finished healing from it. It turned my husband off God completely. My son tried to reconcile wi
krys
At some point, we must let it all go. Otherwise the weight of it will drag us down and keep us from doing anything that remotely seems like living some kind of fulfilling life. I didn't want to do th
Nottawayfer
I was at HQ during this time. Staffers worked extra jobs during this time. I remember that 3 people were sent packing, but I never knew why. We were working about 70 hours a week, so nobody had time to even talk or ask questions. I remember after the class was over, we were waiting to hear LCM talk about why the people left. Nothing was said, which was very odd because LCM used lunchtime to talk about all of the copouts who didn't want to be full-time ministers for the Lord Jesus Christ.
After the class, I had heard from others how disappointing it must have been for Rev. Linder to have to escort people who he helped get in the Corps off grounds. It's interesting how people instantly went to "they did something bad" even though we heard nothing.
But we did hear about WC and his family. LCM went off about him and how they had been trying to get him and his family "up to par spiritually". He really made WC seem like a huge slacker. But then again, I personally heard LCM ranting and raving about FC and how she was requesting her granddaughter to go to the SNS. FC's son and DIL had graduated and were being recognized at the service. FC wanted her granddaughter to be able to see it. By the way LCM was raving, you would have thought that FC had done something beyond horrible. I was in the auditorium while they were taking pictures of the graduated Corps. LCM called Don W, Donna, Howard, and others for an impromptu "meeting" right there in front of everyone. We could hear everything. He said that FC was putting a dark cloud on the whole graduation.
It's just so bizarre that I thought I was at the ultimate place on earth doing God's will. I think had many more people heard what happened, it may have caused another exodus. How fitting since TWI was in the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word.
I remember when P*ul All*n and F*rn All*n left, we were told they were evil and making horrible accusations against the Trustees. Rosalie was there, and she let it all happen. God bless her little heart. She's a worthless piece.
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now I see
That is so the pot calling the kettle black, I know for a fact LCM was a real pervert in relationship to WC's family, he has a lot to answer for, like his "father" in the word will, what a sham, LCM is so lucky that he's not spending the next 20 years in a federal penitentiary.
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Dot Matrix
Oh Rummie
It is so sad
To think a man has a wonderful wife - only touched by him and then she is summoned and submits. And a man, not you but like yourself, finds out his wife is servicing the MAN who taught him the Bible!!! How horrible and confusing is that?
This story is your son's story Krys and your poor DIL lost her mind as a result.
Ya know, in the Bible not much allows divorce but adultery is a deal breaker. I can see why - the pain and confusion is horrific. Now, add to that it is YOUR spiritual leader!!!!
Rummie, there were men honored to eat the crumbs from the kings table? OMG!!!! I know one of the ordained straight guys told me of a WOMAN who considered it an honor for her daughter to be touched by MOGGIE and actually brought her daughter to HIM after she herself serviced him. (We were as bad as the Jim Jones and Koersh people) And people like WD still decline the stories like some kind of arm chair Perry Mason? Barf
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Watered Garden
And this is probably the big reason why women were taught so diligently to submit to their own husbands, to leadership, to submit-subject-obey. If you are brainwashed to never ever say "no" in any way to your own husband, it just gets more normal to say "yes" to any leadership that comes along.
I distinctly remember DLM in their stupid "principles of a believer's family" class saying that "As a wife, I try to not have very many opinions. I find out what my husband's opinion is and line my thinking up with his."
So that must make her a Mini-Me for her husband.
Gag!
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skyrider
And that folks............is "doing the word" according to LCM.
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Dot Matrix
With Women taught to SERVICE and men taught to TAKE no wonder there was confusion and every evil work.
I recall a guy in my corps asked me to SNS. While sitting next to him he slides his hand over and starts to grab/rub my -pp-le/ breast. I yelled in a whisper to him to knock it off. And he said it was no different than touching my elbow.
So, I told him to touch my elbow then.
And another time in a WAY HOME, my corps brother came into my room, where I was sleeping, and jumped on top of me as if I was going to turn in delight and squeal in acceptance, I fought him off me and prayed to God for help. He passed out as he was drunk. But ya know what he had said to me? "I see the way you look at me corps nights so I know you want me." Truth be told, I barely noticed he was alive. But he was apparently schooled to think "we" all wanted "it".
I told JAL. (Cause I already had a crime happen to me via a top guy in the ministry.) And it, with my corps bro, was down played like "boys will be boys" but he dang near forced himself -- which would have been RAPE...
I did not need this crap. But apparently some women wanted it. I was NOT one of them
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rascal
Rum runner, absolutely, I am glad that you brought things up from the guys pov. How absolutely crushing to discover that your wife was required to service the mogs....to be explained your choices at gun point. Good lord, look at the heartbreaking account of poor Tom Mullins when he couldn`t get his wife to leave the mog. I agree the fellows suffering and indignities could be every bit as humiliating and shattering. I just tend to post from my own understanding as a gal.
Absolutely Watered Garden. We were indoctrinated to submit completely. To not consider, to stuff any emotions or dislike down way down deep and pretend that we didn`t feel or cry or greive.... because we all knew that our emotions, our 5 senses were what Satan would use to deceive, to lead ourselves, our husbands, and our children away from God and to everyones destruction.
We HAD to depend on our husbands and leaders to keep us in line, because our greater emotions made us unstable. If you disagreed, if you disobeyed, you were stiff necked, and God wouldn`t bless you...Damned right we obeyed, damned right. God forbid you were a strong woman, or voiced your opinion either. I had two friends thrown out through the years for being lesbians on no greater evidence than that.
The claim (as many times has been said) that *no one held a gun to our heads* is so lacking in empathy and understanding. A gun or any other form of physical force.....most of us could and possibly would have fought back against. One just COULDN`T be true to themselves or stand up when things felt wrong or when the action required to be loathsome beyond what one felt was beyond their endurance to handle...when it was opresented as GOD`S requirements....the refusal of which would remove one from his hedge of protection....would result in satan allowed access to your life....of impending death or worse...possession.....One just brokenly sucked it up, put all questions on the back burner, and recited retemories to mask and smother the protests....to shut out the part of us that was screaming denial inside.
What a sick sordid mess "(
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DontWorryBeHappy
hiya krysilys!
thanks much for sharing for us all to read, the true facts behind what happened 10 years ago! i can understand how it must have completrely rocked and rearranged your world, and how shattering it was to your son, and his marriage!!.......to have firsthand experience of being totally on the "right side" of an issue where "god's word is at stake", and yet, be attacked viciously and publicly by the hounds of hell, chased out of "the promised land" with those dogs snarling and biting at your heels,...... distinguishes you and your son as yet two more survivors of the fascistic, religious system which is twi!!.......it's like watching a movie about wwII, in which another hapless family of hardworking, faithful germans is hurled out of der vaterland by the gestapo simply because they knew too much about the "man behind the curtain" and demanded justice from those who had absolutely no concept of what the words "truth and justice" mean!!.......make no mistake fellow greasespotters!........the doofus from okie and his gang of "trustees" would have gleefully allowed linder to use those weapons had they thought they could have gotten away with it!!......and linder would have joyfully enforced "god's will" if the "suggestion", "tantamount to a command", had been given!!
as far as the clapps are concerned, their "stand" was meaningless, imo, and a mere 12 years late!!........this was no "surprise" to them!!........they knew full-well the personal history of their fuhrer!!......that was made quite plain to them, as well as all the rest of the "top leadership" of the reichstadt in 1986-87!!.......they chose to willfully ignore the facts then, and again in the spring of 1989, when they swore their loyalty to the doofus from okie and da boyz in da hoods!!........and again in the mid-nineties, when they supposedly were "promised" by their king, that he would change his personal perversities, and straighten up and fly right........again, willfully ignoring the destroyed lives and the myriad lies proclaimed as "the present truth" to their "itching ears"!!.......all the while faithfully and loyally partricipating in the slander, defamation, and human carnage of the various "purges" their mogs were directing to cover their religious reign of terror!!........how many innocents did they agree to "mark and avoid" during their years at the top there in rome city???.........how many lies did they shout from their indiana campus ivory tower??
what was the "great stand" they took??........running to the welcoming arms of CFF!!........where they now rule their own ranks of twi refugees........upholding the "great truths of god's word" taught them by their "father-in-the-word" as if nothing ever happened in their vaterland of "god's word" that is worth APOLOGIZING for!!.......the same phoney, putrid doctrines are held forth by them as if they took some great stand for "truth" by finally leaving their happy, harmless little cult........only to jump right into an offshoot spawned and nurtured by the same poisoned "spiritual DNA" that gave birth to twi!!
how many children were bruised and beaten under their watch at rome city??........how many "cop outs" were publicly and privately defamed, lied about, and ridiculed by their loyal, wagging tongues?......how many victims were led to the king's private chamber by boob and doody moynihan under their very noses??.........how many "devils" were "cast out" by their self-deluded operation of the "manifestations"??.......how many grossly perverse and deviant "doctrines" were proclaimed as "god's word" by their faithfully foul "teachings"??............and, how many real changes to all of these "great spiritual truths, not known since the first century" have they made in their long march of "rightly dividing the word of god" during these last 10 years??...........and, perhaps most importantly, how many apologies have they made to those whom they despitefully used and abused during their 12 years of faithful service behind their "walls of zion in the promised land of the present truth"??..............HOW MANY, WAYNE AND FERN??.........HOW LONG WILL YOU PERSIST IN DELAYING, AND THEREFORE DENYING, JUSTICE TO THOSE YOU WILLINGLY AND WILLFULLY SACRIFICED UPON THE ALTAR OF YOUR IDOLS??
thanks again krys, for the honest, genuine stand you took, along with your son, not only then, but also during these last 10 years!..........one thing i've learned during my 50+ years on this earth, is that the words of that old adage, "what goes around comes around", are generally true........."it all comes out in the wash", eventually!.......and i'm truly glad your son is prospering and enjoying his "new" life and family.........truly, god can "restore the years the locusts have eaten"........i'm looking forward to hearing the final pieces to the puzzle you have yet to share with us, and i'm grateful to pawtucket for providing you a safe haven to tell "the other side of the story" here at our favorite cyber-cafe!..................................peace.
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Dot Matrix
Ya know Rummie,
Then do these guys STAY in the marriage being as they were deceived into a lying arranged marriage? Where had they known they NEVER would have agreed? It must change some of their feelings towards these woman who were in the stable willingly and never told their husbands they were sent by the stable master "to get them to marry them."
How does a man deal with that?
If I were he? I think I would be very depressed and ultimately leave if counseling did not work... Cause I would NOT believe that "God joined us together." Just because pappa in the word performed a ceromony? I do not think so. I looked all through the Bible on the yoked - joined stuff and I think it speaks more of the "match making" then the words of a "legal" ceromony or goverment document. I think God does have a hand in bringing people together. So, this whole --send that guy with potential my party girl to marry --is not what I call God joining together.
Or after they marry. They begin to service the Moggie. Adultery is a way out of marriage. But TWI never recognized it as such. It was living on a higher plane and meeting the needs of the moggie... which eventually became every corps guy with a stifie (excuse me)
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waysider
All roads lead back to "the lockbox".
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Rocky
That does seem awfully perverse.
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excathedra
Yeah, what Don'tWorry said !!!!
and yeah, all roads to lead back to the lockbox
and yeah, how perverse !!! how stupid that statement is that WG told us about
--
and kryssie i love you
--
and
Hear hear !!!!!!!!
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skyrider
With each and every DETOUR......wherein wierwille redirected the hearts and lives of those hungering and thirsting for truth in pfal........planting "signs" of manmade doctrine and theology whereby he established a corps program that siphoned off an inner circle of "leaders" where lust, greed, power, and pride dominated any and all thought processes or godly action......clearing the way by 1986 and yet further, by 1998, where martindale and "the board" found themselves in desolate surroundings.
The pyramid structure in twi.......and subsequently found in twi's offshoots......drives the system of NO accountability in any sense of true doctrine and/or practice. The "man in charge" is always right.......even if he's wrong......and its his way or the highway.
Today?.......Martindale is an ousted ex-president of twi, sent packing by twi's lawyers to salvage the mess. Don W. died a couple of years later. Howard sits in retirement and visits wierwille's grave, about 100 yds away, often.
<_<
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Watered Garden
My husband told me our first year of marriage that he already knew what HIS opinions were, he was interested in MINE. If he wanted to hear his own opinion all over again, he'd just talk to himself!
What a guy!
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JavaJane
We were told in our pre-marriage counselling that we should consider the reasons we would get divorced... My husband told the clergy that adultury would be the only reason he would consider... the clergy told us that the only reason he would consider getting a divorce from his spouse would be if she decided to leave twi. Funny that adultery wasn't on his list... BUT TWI WAS.
My husband and I talked about that later on that night after the counselling session and decided that our marriage was going to rank a lot higher in priority than twi. I think that was one of the first glimpses of light we both had about what twi was really like.
And this was only a few years ago - WAY after the lawsuits.
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excathedra
pppfffftttt java j
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skyrider
Systematically and strategically, wierwille down-played and virtually eliminated ADULTERY in the believer's consciousness and replaced "renewed mind compartmentalization" in its place. Even thoough adultery is...... ONE OF THOSE "BIG SINS" LISTED IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.... wierwille's sexual predation and lust-filled habits had to eliminate it.
Wierwille's "word" is THE WAY, IT WAS.
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excathedra
and eliminate he did, certainly FOR HIMSELF !!!!
Jimmy Doop was telling me how shocked or maybe disillusioned he and his wife were when wierwille wanted to know more about "free love" CA style. They were not expecting that!!!!
i'm not saying anything about what happened later, but just about that initial time, meeting, hanging out, whatever
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krys
The first 2 weeks after the kids returned home were relatively peaceful.
I expected my son would take some time off - - he's was entitled IMHO. He had worked without benefit of vacation for almost 3 years and with all that happened so quickly that day, I would have been glad to float him and carry him for a month if necessary - - but he would have none of that.
He manned the phone(s) for a couple of days, but on Monday he phoned his old boss. He became an excellent worker after he grew out of his middle teens. He was well skilled in his arena and willing to add to his skill set, he always had a pleasant manner about him, and he had grown to NOT become lazy. So - on Tuesday he had an interview and on Thursday morning reported for work.
After that, every day he got up and went to work by day. When he came home he's man the phone(s) until bedtime. It payed off, though. I don't know how many he managed to get out of the organization...but I know most folks listened intently to his narrative.
His wife, on the other hand, my beloved DIL, walked from room to room seemingly in circles. I wanted to grab her, physically wrap my arms around her and soothe her - but there was something about her demeanor that kept me at arms length. She kept the house looking good, shopped and cooked each night's meal, but wasn't able to do anything more than that. I wasn't expecting anything "more" in quantity certainly - for she had certainly been through the wringer too...but she was not able to do anything except that which she could do on autopilot. I tried showing her several times about the laundry machines....I know...a washer is a washer....and a dryer is a dryer...but we all know that they have their idiosyncracities and we can usually figure them out. She could not. She didn't even put it together that the washer's directions were written on the inside of the top lid! I don't want to put her down. I don't mean to make her look stupid or silly - - rather she was like one of those fish in the ocean that is stunned by a physical sound or some such other.......and they just hang there. She was truly shell-shocked I believe.
You must understand that in no way am I attempting to put her down or take anything away from her. She was not the person I'd come to know - - and love. She was another personality altogether. Our son was still out son. He had grown up of course in the time since we’d seen him last, but he was still the same person - - not just more of a man.
During the month of July, my son found an apartment, signed the lease and was ready to move in the beginning of August. My DIL did not go with him. Instead, she went to visit the “man on the bus” and lived with him for quite some time….I understand they were eventually married. I have no idea where they settled down to live.
After those 2 weeks came the final insult! Their belongings from Gunnison were delivered.
I told you that they had to rent a storage unit, and that mister liner drove the truck to our street right in front of our house and they led him to it. .
As soon as possible after everything was brought to New Jersey, they collected the boxes and brought them to the house to look through them and sort. I wish you could have seen some of these cartons. The cardboard was weak and looked like it had been used and abused. Some of them weren’t even sealed, just closed over with that flap-inside-a-flap that we use sometimes when it’s only temporary storage.
One of the boxes was very large – on the order of a large (for it’s time) TV perhaps. That one held all their heavy winter clothing. Nothing was folded. You know that when you put seasonal things away, you fold them wither you launder them or not….so that you can get more in the box and take care to cram the box as full as possible. None of these was taken care of in the slightest. Everything “winter” was crammed into this one box. Boots, coats, sweaters - - everything. Many things were missing. They both had the best quality hiking boots, only 1 boot made it’s way “home”. One of their superior “greater than 20 below” sleeping bags had gone missing.
My DIL never had much costume jewelry. Her father always made an excellent living and consequently she had the “real stuff”! She found only 1 diamond stud (there were possibly 2 pair). Her jewelry box was no where around, but what was returned of her jewelry was just dumped into one of the boxes. [Ladies remember how carefully we always treated our chains so they wouldn’t kink?]
They were anxiously waiting for their stuff because they wanted their computer. We had given them one for a combination birthday/anniversary/Christmas gift – and it was not cheap! [not like today, for sure] They were looking for their contact list and a number of other things they wanted to take another look at.
They put the whole thing together and turned it on and nothing happened. No lights, no bumping pinging noises…..nothing. At first I thought perhaps somebody had forgotten to lock the disks (I don’t remember if that was still necessary at that time or not…but the thought ran through my mind) Of course, it was always possible that it had also been manhandled and did not make the trip well so we brought it down to the computer repairman downtown. He called within 2 hours of our dropping it off with the reason it wouldn’t operate - - somebody had reformatted the hard drive.
Not erased everything…..reformatted everything. If you’re reading and don’t know that much about computers, reformatting wipes everything off the disk. Erasing it still allow it to “remember” that it was a computer- - - please now install my software so I can do something useful for you. This box didn’t know if it was a computer or a refrigerator! As if that wasn’t bad enough, even the software that had come installed on their computer came with a hard copy set. Microsoft Office was a $400+ program then. There were other programs we or they purchased and used, but I don’t recall anymore what they were.
Now - - it makes sense to me that somebody would do that.. Instead of hunting around and looking for files that you don’t want duplicated anywhere - - especially your list of contacts, just set the thing on format and you don’t have to worry about doing any thing more - - it will carry out your last command while you go and finish ransacking their stuff! Their monitor and printer arrived intact but none of their computer supplies did. [None of their other office supplies either….not even a roll of scotch tape - or a single staple.]
We knew they had office and computer supplies galore because we kept them well stocked. When you have to live on $1 a day, you ask your family and friends to send you such stuff for birthday and other gifts just so you can come out even!
After the second week in August, when my son moved into “their” apartment [about 4 blocks away from this very place coincidently], I never saw my beloved DIL again. I still miss her - - at least the young woman she was. My son moved out. He took some of our “extra” furnishings and incidentals and their stored wedding gifts and began his new life.
Why was all of this so hard on me? I don’t know. It didn’t really happen to me - - but it hit me so very hard. I don’t know how you who were, indeed, physically and otherwise abused managed to keep it so “together” today. Maybe it has to do with it happening to our kids. You know – I don’t mean to take anything away from you who also endured, but I wonder - - - you can do whatever you want to me and I’ll figure out a way to survive and endure it…….but if you touch one of my kids, I’ll go for your throat and have your bowels for lunch [figure of speech!]. Maybe that’s what it is.
I do know this, however……………
When you’ve been **** e d by the Way, you’ve been through and through and throughly f**ked!
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Rocky
Krys... I hope you are getting some sense of something... I don't know, maybe closure, maybe catharsis, from sharing this very significant series of events as it was for you and your son and his then wife.
Indeed, you've described an incredible mean-spiritedness on the part of TWI.
It certainly makes complete sense that you would have been upset because of what happened to your cubs, as it were...
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krys
Rocky - I don't know if you'd call it closure. Many things have settled in my brain as the result of organizing my thoughts. Catharsis???? dunno about that. I don't care about that so much as I care about exposing them for what they were/are. If I've done that, I'm satisfied and I got my money's worth out of this website!
This is what happened to us. Read what happened to many others.....conclusion - - draw your own, but if you aren't convinced about the screwd, lewd, mean spirits and whatever else was evil about the organization, then I'm going to have to work a whole lot harder!
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Watered Garden
They should have sued their azzes off!
I remember in the 1980's hearing several people speak of the "spoils" system, that when the army of Israel conquered another country, city, whatever, they took everything, and how that was God rewarding them for being His people and doing His will. Never mind that Saul got in deep dang for doing the same, and there are other incidents in the OT where Israel was took to keep their hands off, "flew upon the spoil" and got very negative results! I definitely got the impression that God doesn't like that sort of behavior. And yes, TWI, He is keeping track of all this.
How great their sorrow will be when they learn of God's judgment of their socalled righteousness.
WG
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doojable
Krys - this last part of the story is heartbreaking for sure.
TWI stole - stole from you son and his ex. What's worst - it appears they were trying to break them.
I'm so glad that your son is well - it speaks highly of how you raised him. Your DIL, on the other hand was humiliated down to her soul.
Has Linder ever called your son and apologized? Has he asked for forgiveness? (In case you can't tell - my sarcasm meter is in the red zone here.)
I wonder if he's read your account here and made excuses for his behaviour.
Do you think he has this "proverb" on the wall of his office:
"If you didn't see me, I didn't do it."
Now here's an interesting thought. Linder is still head of security, Rosie is still the president. The Moneyhands are still there, along with so many others.
I wonder how different TWI really is at it's core if these same miscreants are at the helm.
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A la prochaine
I think Java Jane answered that question Doojable!!!
And I'd have to concur ... the answer is NO NO NO NO NO!!!
Krys,
MY God!! I'm just sick to my stomach over this whole mess. And you are absolutely right...when TWI F**Ks with you ... you know you've been F**ked!!
Watered Garden had great insight about how in the OT when such things were done God was not too happy... and in those days, this was done to those 'not in the fold' sorta' speak. Wonder how God feels when it's done to those who love Him??
If there's a God and if there's a judgement day... man... it REALLY sucks to be those MOGS!
Krys,
Thank you for sharing your story here and revealing the true nature of those TWI leaders.
hugs to you my friend.
xo
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