Actually folks. Reading Oldies and What the Hey's posts are a lot like reading websites/blogs of NeoNazis and Holocaust deniers. The crap that they hold onto, and the _blind devotion_ to said crap, is so .....
Perhaps the larger question should be...What considerations should be given (if any) to a pro twi poster at a anti twi website?
Well...let's see now...hmmm...
How about we put up a wall with a hole in it...the Wierwille apologist could stick his head through the hole and we could all throw tomatoes at his face...honestly...that's how I see them at this website.
"The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside." [from Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom]
This quote sums up for me the wisdom behind allowing the "apologists" to stay. We may not like the "other possibility" but sanity does stand in sharp contrast to Waybrain.
Of course not. Starting another thread is not the problem, but what if I started another thread sharing my opinion about a victims' story and then the Owner of the website doesn't like my opinion finding it opposed to the "GS Mission" and then I get slammed again? That's why your suggestion was a good one but IMO needs his blessing and must be made part of the rules, so all participants know what is allowed and what to expect.
You sir (and I use the term loosely), are a David Duke looking to attend an NAACP rally.
You're asking for rules???!!!??? I seriously am ROFLMAO!
Ya think the NAACP might give you some *rules*??
You REALLY can't figure them out on your own???
Good Gawd --- what kind of world do you live in, anyway??
There's a thread in the CES forum about JS. When it was found out that his son was injured in Iraq someone asked for a moratorium on posting. That happened - no questions asked. Meanwhile, a prayer thread was started.
That's what I mean about being respectful. There are no rules in place for that sort of thing and it would be impossible to write rules for every single thing that should be common sense to an adult with compassion.
Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US just for that! But it appears that TWI has not come out in the open about all the abuse and scandal in it. There is a large difference. Either TWI wants to keep everything undisclosed, or all the claims of scandal and abuse in TWI are exaggerated or should be treated as rubbish and feeble attempts to paint a black cloud over the white purity that is, in the minds of some, what TWI is.
Use your reason and decide for yourself.
~Phil
Now this I will take issue with. Now granted I had a nervous breakdown and was in a mental hospital at the time. My mom died in my arms and it freaked me out. That said,
When I woke up the Monday after Easter 1990, I was again in my right mind. Everyone was, for the most part, compliant, with what we were asked. There is different things they do to see how coherant you are, like waiting for you to ask for a shower, change of clothes, etc....There is one fella that sticks out like a sore thumb. Wiry reddish hair, NEVER spoke to anyone hospitalized. Did have female friends that visited him everyday., he also got a razor.....in a mental hospital, sharp things and shoe laces are no nos. I tried to talk to him, not a peep. I got out on a Wednesday, my brother and sister in law took me to lunch and I grabbed the paper (The Atlanta Journal Constitution) to see what was going on, and lookie lookie what I found, Father Mowat from Ireland being sought by police in several child molestations. The same guy that was in Unit 6 of Georgia mental health institute. That you have to admit is suspicious...... Now this statement Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US happens to be untrue. Who do you think paid off the state of Georgia to hide the SOB.
I left enough clues, check for yourself. The Roman Catholic church does defend priests and they hide them, put them in places where they cannot be touched, or in this case, where no one suspects......
Use your reason and get a clue, your statement is erroneous at best.
well, no one could ever be "better" after having gone through what you did with your mom
i'm just so sorry. and i didn't mean to sound trite at all
We are all good.
We have all been through a lot. Laughter helps. Me loves to laugh.
I just am saying, somebody hid that kid raping maggot in that hospital somehow.
You should have seen my brothers face, I am looking at his picture, I read the story, and I am all up and down going he is in unit 6 right now......neither one of them were sure for a second if I was ready to come home.....
Now this statement Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US happens to be untrue. Who do you think paid off the state of Georgia to hide the SOB.
I left enough clues, check for yourself. The Roman Catholic church does defend priests and they hide them, put them in places where they cannot be touched, or in this case, where no one suspects......
Use your reason and get a clue, your statement is erroneous at best.
Yes, for a long time the Catholic Church tried to hide the scandals. Eventually, they had to change direction and face the music. It took persistence on the part of the victims, tremendous persistence.
Yes, for a long time, the victims of the priests were treated with similar disrespect and disbelief. They persisted, as a group anyway.
The scandals that church faced were pervasive. The practices by wierwille/martindale and perhaps some others were amazingly too common. Because of the persistence of a few, twi has had to deal with some of it. Martindale's personal ministry was destroyed by his horrible acts, that he apparently learned from wierwille.
There is one fella that sticks out like a sore thumb. Wiry reddish hair, NEVER spoke to anyone hospitalized. Did have female friends that visited him everyday., he also got a razor.....in a mental hospital, sharp things and shoe laces are no nos. I tried to talk to him, not a peep. I got out on a Wednesday, my brother and sister in law took me to lunch and I grabbed the paper (The Atlanta Journal Constitution) to see what was going on, and lookie lookie what I found, Father Mowat from Ireland being sought by police in several child molestations. The same guy that was in Unit 6 of Georgia mental health institute. That you have to admit is suspicious...... Now this statement Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US happens to be untrue. Who do you think paid off the state of Georgia to hide the SOB.
holy crap. i didn't keep reading
well, i read your summation which is true about the stupid catholic church (from my own experience)
now that i've read all that really happened, i can say, i'm NOT surprised
but to asume that a poster loves worships or adores vpw or lcm (what ever type of word you want to use) just because he questions what a poster writes on an internet is wrong.
It is an unspoken rule that if one likes the way this is an antii way site and it wont be welcomed. clearly .
barely tolerated and the point of this website is to prove that thinking false.
those are the unwritten rules.
ask bumpy and many others how they learned that.
I think many got to thinking that the way was evil after they came here and heard the sexual abuse stories.
ok for them.
but some chose not to believe "the testimonys"or are just not interested in reading about them, so the question is does all of grease spots honor ride on that alone?
I think greas spot has more to offer than the constant fights and complaining amoung certain posters being the center of attention .
I think grease spot has alot of very accurrate information about twi that can not be disputed.
But this never ending cat fight stops some from seeking that info .
It's been a while since we've talked. It was a little rough at first too, huh.
But in one conversation I agreed with you because the scriptural point that you brought up worked really well with the topic at hand, and I felt respect for you at that point, and I'm guessing that, since you didn't say otherwise that it was at least a little like that for you too.
I am certain that for many pro TWI people that truth is subjective in terms of how badly they treat supposed (in their minds anyway) TWI victims. It seems certain to me that the simple fact that there is a fight that chases away some that are looking into the truth of these things is enough for them to justify their treatment of the victims. In this mind set provocations, evil speaking, chasing the gentle souls away and false accusations are just simply tools in their hands for the "spiritual battle" that they fight. IMO we can only expect honesty from these folks after they realize that "truth" is not on the side of their bad behavior. But as they tend to be committed to their cause, it is not easy to get a change of heart in these circumstances. God willing IMO, it can be done however. In this instance I see potential to help even the most committed waybrainer.
With still hurting victims meeting deliberate provocatures it seems unavoidable that some cat fighting is inevitable in an open forum.
I think it would be nice to know that real victims are getting real help though. I do not think that in this open forum any real victim should open up however, let alone use their real name.
If any of the abusers don't like this, I think that their are some who would deal with them face to face as required however, just let the victims get to capable, well intentioned help IMO.
he was comic of sorts, I guess, I think some took his fly as a means to distract from the seriousness of some of the threads and took offense.
Grease spot has gotten to a point any opposing side or even questioning of the statement of some posters is going to make it difficult for "new" posters.
I really do not think some of you can see it that way because this has been your areana for so long and are so entrenched in your mission or position that the problem of how it appears or presents itself to anyone not so involved in the threads may see it just doesnt matter or you can NOT recognize it .
posters here are so familiar with one another it has in and of itself become its own party .
posters ee the party and how it is played and see infighting and stupid agruement amoung the same ol same old and look no farther.
I use bumpy as an example of a new comer not ever really being accepted (he did try to post and fit in) so he is gone.
I know I know you all have reasons .. who am I to say what you guys want to comlain about ?
but that is the outside learning Dooj. The posters here have their reasons and that is good enough.
anyone willing to give it a go can clearly see the risk even if the regulars can not.
I think grease spot has alot of very accurrate information about twi that can not be disputed.
But this never ending cat fight stops some from seeking that info .
Great statement, I truely think your right.
I seldom post for just that reason and it's gotten worst as the years go on. Imagin the innes looking in and instead of finding info pertaining to The Way, all they find is in-fighting here instead of the information that may lead them out.
Some of you may say that if they searched for it they could find it. True but most people only look as far as the first page until they get comfortable with what they see, then they dig deeper. If all they see is a page of people arguing about who did what and how, the it only supports there dogma of peopleget possessed and fall apart after leaving The Way.
Look at the first couple pages in The "About the Way" from that innie or family member or supportive friend and see if you can find some prevelant honest helpful info. There are snipets of info, but most is either redirecting and earlier point from another thread, amultiple page sage or more recently all the attacks and btching. If I was new, I'd walk away after the 1st 2 threads. That's why I posted a possible help in Pawtuckets thread. This place is becoming uncivilized.
JSN - by the time I stumbled upon GSC I had been out at least 14 years. I had already read The Cult that Snapped by Karl Kahler. Actually, because of some of my experiences in TWI, I wasn't all that shocked when I read that book. It just made some things make more sense.
So anyway, I was thinking about TWI and I wondered if they could possibly still be around because of some of the weird sh(t I heard back in the late 90's. (Women required to be thin, have their nails manicured weekly, showing bank statements and time logs...) Granted now I know it wasn't the same everywhere, but I just couldn't imagine anyone new looking for God and entering a home fellowhship (is that what they called it?) and saying, "OMFG! I'm home! This is what I've been searching for all my life!"
Again... anyway...When I stumbled upon GSC I took the time to read the front page of the site and some of the articles. I didn't read the forums for a day or so and then it took me about another three days to sign up.
Granted, I wasn't a newbie leaving the grips of the evil cult. I just wonder if most folks don't start at the front page and read the articles and listen to the podcasts before they enter the Forums.
Well, I said my peace on the subject and offered my opinion as to an easy solution, I'll fade into the background now.
What Pawtucket decides to do will determine if this site is useful to me anymore and if I will choose to point people toward it in the future.
I belonged to The Way once, I'll not put myself in another place that is uncivalized and thrives on strife or strict adherence of particular viewpoints.
There's a thread in the CES forum about JS. When it was found out that his son was injured in Iraq someone asked for a moratorium on posting. That happened - no questions asked. Meanwhile, a prayer thread was started.
That's what I mean about being respectful. There are no rules in place for that sort of thing and it would be impossible to write rules for every single thing that should be common sense to an adult with compassion.
The reason for letting them stay on here is compassion; plain and simple compassion. How many stood to the side and let us have our say when they told us outright that we were a part of a cult and we weren't buying it? How many times did we shut down a conversation when it wasn't going our way? I did it on more than one occasion. I know my family waited for me to wake up and get a clue. Maybe the ones who are sticking it out and defending TWI are the ones who have disrespected their families and friends to the point where they aren't waiting around. Perhaps TWI is all they have and they will defend it beyond the point of reason, because being "right" is more important than relationships. Maybe they are abusers and simply like abusing. Think about it. What kind of person would denigrate another person's telling of their own story? Someone who can only make it in a system such as TWI, which is all about abuse. Of course that kind of person will use "reasoning" as a method of belittling someone else's experience. For those who defend TWI and ask how these women fell prey, it's because they really don't get it. It's hard to be sympathetic towards people like that, but isn't that what we're supposed to do? I genuinely feel sorry for people who lack compassion. I genuinely feel sorry for people who get their kicks out of being buttheads. I genuinely feel sorry for people who think that it's somehow "Christian" to behave like an a$$ho1e towards others because they aren't involved in their organization, or worse yet, treat people who they claimed to love as people to be avoided.
In the internet world, we call people who disrupt threads trolls . Don't feed the trolls. Better yet, use my troll spray:
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GarthP2000
Actually folks. Reading Oldies and What the Hey's posts are a lot like reading websites/blogs of NeoNazis and Holocaust deniers. The crap that they hold onto, and the _blind devotion_ to said crap, is so .....
... out to lunch!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Perhaps the larger question should be...What considerations should be given (if any) to a pro twi poster at a anti twi website?
Well...let's see now...hmmm...
How about we put up a wall with a hole in it...the Wierwille apologist could stick his head through the hole and we could all throw tomatoes at his face...honestly...that's how I see them at this website.
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doojable
This quote sums up for me the wisdom behind allowing the "apologists" to stay. We may not like the "other possibility" but sanity does stand in sharp contrast to Waybrain.
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dmiller
You sir (and I use the term loosely), are a David Duke looking to attend an NAACP rally.
You're asking for rules???!!!??? I seriously am ROFLMAO!
Ya think the NAACP might give you some *rules*??
You REALLY can't figure them out on your own???
Good Gawd --- what kind of world do you live in, anyway??
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Rocky
An excellent comparison.
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doojable
I was just remembering...
There's a thread in the CES forum about JS. When it was found out that his son was injured in Iraq someone asked for a moratorium on posting. That happened - no questions asked. Meanwhile, a prayer thread was started.
That's what I mean about being respectful. There are no rules in place for that sort of thing and it would be impossible to write rules for every single thing that should be common sense to an adult with compassion.
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waysider
How about The Golden Rule?
That one covers a lot of territory.
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Rocky
You mean, "He/she who has the GOLD rules?"
j/k
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waysider
Hmmmm!
That's not exactly the one I had in mind.
BTW---How much gold are we talking about here?
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Rocky
Well, I don't RULE, so it's probably a sum significantly more than is available to me!
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lucyvanpelt
Now this I will take issue with. Now granted I had a nervous breakdown and was in a mental hospital at the time. My mom died in my arms and it freaked me out. That said,
When I woke up the Monday after Easter 1990, I was again in my right mind. Everyone was, for the most part, compliant, with what we were asked. There is different things they do to see how coherant you are, like waiting for you to ask for a shower, change of clothes, etc....There is one fella that sticks out like a sore thumb. Wiry reddish hair, NEVER spoke to anyone hospitalized. Did have female friends that visited him everyday., he also got a razor.....in a mental hospital, sharp things and shoe laces are no nos. I tried to talk to him, not a peep. I got out on a Wednesday, my brother and sister in law took me to lunch and I grabbed the paper (The Atlanta Journal Constitution) to see what was going on, and lookie lookie what I found, Father Mowat from Ireland being sought by police in several child molestations. The same guy that was in Unit 6 of Georgia mental health institute. That you have to admit is suspicious...... Now this statement Catholics have not defended the priests who were found in sexual abuse cases, and the Catholic Church has even apologized for what has happened to many people. Heck, the Pope visited the US happens to be untrue. Who do you think paid off the state of Georgia to hide the SOB.
I left enough clues, check for yourself. The Roman Catholic church does defend priests and they hide them, put them in places where they cannot be touched, or in this case, where no one suspects......
Use your reason and get a clue, your statement is erroneous at best.
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excathedra
i agree, lucy
and i'm sorry. i'm glad you're better
well, no one could ever be "better" after having gone through what you did with your mom
i'm just so sorry. and i didn't mean to sound trite at all
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lucyvanpelt
We are all good.
We have all been through a lot. Laughter helps. Me loves to laugh.
I just am saying, somebody hid that kid raping maggot in that hospital somehow.
You should have seen my brothers face, I am looking at his picture, I read the story, and I am all up and down going he is in unit 6 right now......neither one of them were sure for a second if I was ready to come home.....
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Rocky
Yes, for a long time the Catholic Church tried to hide the scandals. Eventually, they had to change direction and face the music. It took persistence on the part of the victims, tremendous persistence.
Yes, for a long time, the victims of the priests were treated with similar disrespect and disbelief. They persisted, as a group anyway.
The scandals that church faced were pervasive. The practices by wierwille/martindale and perhaps some others were amazingly too common. Because of the persistence of a few, twi has had to deal with some of it. Martindale's personal ministry was destroyed by his horrible acts, that he apparently learned from wierwille.
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excathedra
holy crap. i didn't keep reading
well, i read your summation which is true about the stupid catholic church (from my own experience)
now that i've read all that really happened, i can say, i'm NOT surprised
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pond
Some will believe some will not.
granted.
but to asume that a poster loves worships or adores vpw or lcm (what ever type of word you want to use) just because he questions what a poster writes on an internet is wrong.
It is an unspoken rule that if one likes the way this is an antii way site and it wont be welcomed. clearly .
barely tolerated and the point of this website is to prove that thinking false.
those are the unwritten rules.
ask bumpy and many others how they learned that.
I think many got to thinking that the way was evil after they came here and heard the sexual abuse stories.
ok for them.
but some chose not to believe "the testimonys"or are just not interested in reading about them, so the question is does all of grease spots honor ride on that alone?
I think greas spot has more to offer than the constant fights and complaining amoung certain posters being the center of attention .
I think grease spot has alot of very accurrate information about twi that can not be disputed.
But this never ending cat fight stops some from seeking that info .
so
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doojable
Pond - you're way off-base regarding Bumpy. He wasn't an apologist. He mostly was a fly in the ointment (to be kind.)
He didn't defend twi. He didn't defend anyone really. He taunted and teased and interjected obfuscations.
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JeffSjo
Hi Pond,
It's been a while since we've talked. It was a little rough at first too, huh.
But in one conversation I agreed with you because the scriptural point that you brought up worked really well with the topic at hand, and I felt respect for you at that point, and I'm guessing that, since you didn't say otherwise that it was at least a little like that for you too.
I am certain that for many pro TWI people that truth is subjective in terms of how badly they treat supposed (in their minds anyway) TWI victims. It seems certain to me that the simple fact that there is a fight that chases away some that are looking into the truth of these things is enough for them to justify their treatment of the victims. In this mind set provocations, evil speaking, chasing the gentle souls away and false accusations are just simply tools in their hands for the "spiritual battle" that they fight. IMO we can only expect honesty from these folks after they realize that "truth" is not on the side of their bad behavior. But as they tend to be committed to their cause, it is not easy to get a change of heart in these circumstances. God willing IMO, it can be done however. In this instance I see potential to help even the most committed waybrainer.
With still hurting victims meeting deliberate provocatures it seems unavoidable that some cat fighting is inevitable in an open forum.
I think it would be nice to know that real victims are getting real help though. I do not think that in this open forum any real victim should open up however, let alone use their real name.
If any of the abusers don't like this, I think that their are some who would deal with them face to face as required however, just let the victims get to capable, well intentioned help IMO.
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pond
he was comic of sorts, I guess, I think some took his fly as a means to distract from the seriousness of some of the threads and took offense.
Grease spot has gotten to a point any opposing side or even questioning of the statement of some posters is going to make it difficult for "new" posters.
I really do not think some of you can see it that way because this has been your areana for so long and are so entrenched in your mission or position that the problem of how it appears or presents itself to anyone not so involved in the threads may see it just doesnt matter or you can NOT recognize it .
posters here are so familiar with one another it has in and of itself become its own party .
posters ee the party and how it is played and see infighting and stupid agruement amoung the same ol same old and look no farther.
I use bumpy as an example of a new comer not ever really being accepted (he did try to post and fit in) so he is gone.
I know I know you all have reasons .. who am I to say what you guys want to comlain about ?
but that is the outside learning Dooj. The posters here have their reasons and that is good enough.
anyone willing to give it a go can clearly see the risk even if the regulars can not.
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JustSayNO
Great statement, I truely think your right.
I seldom post for just that reason and it's gotten worst as the years go on. Imagin the innes looking in and instead of finding info pertaining to The Way, all they find is in-fighting here instead of the information that may lead them out.
Some of you may say that if they searched for it they could find it. True but most people only look as far as the first page until they get comfortable with what they see, then they dig deeper. If all they see is a page of people arguing about who did what and how, the it only supports there dogma of peopleget possessed and fall apart after leaving The Way.
Look at the first couple pages in The "About the Way" from that innie or family member or supportive friend and see if you can find some prevelant honest helpful info. There are snipets of info, but most is either redirecting and earlier point from another thread, amultiple page sage or more recently all the attacks and btching. If I was new, I'd walk away after the 1st 2 threads. That's why I posted a possible help in Pawtuckets thread. This place is becoming uncivilized.
Again, just a different viewpoint.
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doojable
JSN - by the time I stumbled upon GSC I had been out at least 14 years. I had already read The Cult that Snapped by Karl Kahler. Actually, because of some of my experiences in TWI, I wasn't all that shocked when I read that book. It just made some things make more sense.
So anyway, I was thinking about TWI and I wondered if they could possibly still be around because of some of the weird sh(t I heard back in the late 90's. (Women required to be thin, have their nails manicured weekly, showing bank statements and time logs...) Granted now I know it wasn't the same everywhere, but I just couldn't imagine anyone new looking for God and entering a home fellowhship (is that what they called it?) and saying, "OMFG! I'm home! This is what I've been searching for all my life!"
Again... anyway...When I stumbled upon GSC I took the time to read the front page of the site and some of the articles. I didn't read the forums for a day or so and then it took me about another three days to sign up.
Granted, I wasn't a newbie leaving the grips of the evil cult. I just wonder if most folks don't start at the front page and read the articles and listen to the podcasts before they enter the Forums.
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Ham
Actually, when I started lurking here, I found the cat fights rather refreshing. Some people could actually be honest for a change.
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JustSayNO
Well, I said my peace on the subject and offered my opinion as to an easy solution, I'll fade into the background now.
What Pawtucket decides to do will determine if this site is useful to me anymore and if I will choose to point people toward it in the future.
I belonged to The Way once, I'll not put myself in another place that is uncivalized and thrives on strife or strict adherence of particular viewpoints.
good luck.
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Tzaia
The reason for letting them stay on here is compassion; plain and simple compassion. How many stood to the side and let us have our say when they told us outright that we were a part of a cult and we weren't buying it? How many times did we shut down a conversation when it wasn't going our way? I did it on more than one occasion. I know my family waited for me to wake up and get a clue. Maybe the ones who are sticking it out and defending TWI are the ones who have disrespected their families and friends to the point where they aren't waiting around. Perhaps TWI is all they have and they will defend it beyond the point of reason, because being "right" is more important than relationships. Maybe they are abusers and simply like abusing. Think about it. What kind of person would denigrate another person's telling of their own story? Someone who can only make it in a system such as TWI, which is all about abuse. Of course that kind of person will use "reasoning" as a method of belittling someone else's experience. For those who defend TWI and ask how these women fell prey, it's because they really don't get it. It's hard to be sympathetic towards people like that, but isn't that what we're supposed to do? I genuinely feel sorry for people who lack compassion. I genuinely feel sorry for people who get their kicks out of being buttheads. I genuinely feel sorry for people who think that it's somehow "Christian" to behave like an a$$ho1e towards others because they aren't involved in their organization, or worse yet, treat people who they claimed to love as people to be avoided.
In the internet world, we call people who disrupt threads trolls
. Don't feed the trolls. Better yet, use my troll spray: 
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