I knew this was going to cause a problem, but chose to post anyway because I think it needed to be addressed.
I was around the Way from 1980 until 1988 as I have stated before. And in that time I never had an inkling about any of this. As an incest survivor there are hints, clues, something to warn you of the danger.
The only time I was even made aware that "leadership" was not to be questioned was when my own Corps sisters told me about Craig, and people in AOS. Before that, it was not pushed on me.
There were lots of people to tell, Shelby County Police, they were looking to shut down the farm, The FBI, your parents, a sibling any grown up with any sense would have helped in the situation.
Perhaps you weren't affected by your situation in the same way they were by theirs. Fine. Perhaps you simply live in denial of how you felt in your situation - I don't know. said by Abigail
I went from 80 pounds to 250 pounds in 6 years, hoping if I made myself ugly, he'd leave me alone. I bit my nails to stubs, I skipped two whole quarters of school, I made f's when I did show up because all I could think about was where can I hide til my parents came home? I lashed out at everyone, I started to tell a teacher, but my brother went to the same school, my own friends didn't believe me when I told them, when I did finally tell my parents, my mother had no reaction other than to keep preparing to out, and my dad tried to chop his pee pee off but missed, and that only served to make him even more mad. I was prey. And after that came the real threat, in the middle of the night, something he had never done before, he snuck into my room, clamped his hand over my mouth and said, "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, and it might not be next year, but I AM going to kill you" The look in his eyes told me I was screwed. Which is why i went to the woods to my spot and told God to kill him. I had done nothing wrong, I didn't bring any of this on, and I wanted a chance to have a happy childhood, so get him gone. 6 months later he died in a car accident. He suffered for three hours before he died. ah, what a pity. I thought Good, he should have suffered for an hour for every minute of torment I endured.
And that is the key, I endured and I won, He has been dead since 3:42am June 26, 1976, and I am still here.
I had no way out, but I knew God, I knew God loved me and that what I was going through was wrong and He helped me get through it and got rid of the problem. It was so bad Abigail, I told God at 12, if Gary goes to heaven I don't want to go. I was trapped in a house in the 1970's when this type of problem was not discussed or dealt with, and I came out the other side whole. Finally. I don't deny any of how it felt. It is a sad day when a child feels safer outside then it does in its own house. Check out my jaw, it pops, why? He broke it. I have scars all over from the physical abuse, from a spoon, from a piece of glass, from a Zippo lighter, from being tied up there are scars on my wrists, I had screamed myself hoarse, maybe I just allowed God to heal me and got over it. Hmmmmm, that sounds like godly advice to me.
I have found the longer you dwell on what the perp did the longer they exercise control STILL over your life. I forgave him. With that forgiveness which took years, trust me, came closure to the whole thing and I can talk about it and be objective about it, it doesn't hurt me anymore. It's just something tragic that happened when i was a kid, it does not define me now. But try to touch me if I don't want you to, first you will draw back a nub, and second, my relationship with God is stronger now that I don't have the bs from the PI and wrong doctrine we got taught, and God has rescued me from a perp back in 2004. God picked the guy up by the scruff of the neck and tossed him off me. And that friends, is in the police report to the PLPD.
I am not condemning anyone, I am asking what did you do, if anything, to try to stop this from happening to other people. Because within my own Corps, some of those girls were stupid enough to think it was an honor to have sex with "leadership" I asked them like I am asking here, don't you know right from wrong, you have the ability to think for yourself. No one in the Way ever tried to f### with my free will. I would have been gone so fast heads would have spun. That is the one thing that kept me from going insane in relation to my brother, he may have gotten my body to do what he wanted after all he was 6'6" 250 pounds of the meanest snake I ever met, and I was only 5' but he never got me to allow what was going on in my mind. I wouldn't let it. It was wrong, I knew it was wrong, and there had to be a way out.
I never felt mind controlled, I felt pushed around, but I wouldn't allow it. In residence if I didn't like a job assignment, I would go and bitch and my job would be changed. It didn't hurt that my tuition was paid weeks before I hit the door.
I never saw any of this side of this ministry, and never would have had I not googled vp in 2004. So what you people take for granted because "you have been in on it" for so long, this is still shocking to me. If it happened, I don't know, LIKE I SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST, I WASN'T THERE. I am taking the word of people who hide behind fake names, so if being skeptical bothers you I am sorry, it's a lot of absorb, and if I have honest questions, I am going to ask them. My intent wasn't to start world war three, evidently, some of you are real prickly, I didn't know the answer to the question, so I asked. If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.
Ya know ---- (with all due respect to you Lucy), there were MANY times that folks could've, should've, and sometimes DID actually speak out. But guess what? They weren't, or wouldn't have been *preaching to the choir*, so it would have been futile to do so. Given the mind control going on, everyone involved in twi tended to believe *leadership* over some *goof-ball* who was spouting anti-way stuff, no matter how benign or inflammatory.
Look at what they (twi) did to John Schoenheit for MERELY publishing a work saying that adultery is WRONG. Not only did they smear his name, call him possessed, and toss him out --- they (twi) ALSO said that anyone who read his paper, or had it in their possession, would get possessed by *debbil spirits* too.
Damage control at hdqtrs swung into HIGH GEAR anytime something like this surfaced, and you can bet your bottom dollar that it NEVER was complimentary to the one making accusations. Matter of fact -- the one making the accusation was made out to be the *criminal*, regardless of how sound and accurate their claims might have been.
So please --- don't go the *You are as guilty as THEY are* route.
It won't wash. Mrs. Wierwille (even) said of docvic ------- >>>
"He was a mean, mean man". And she said that after his death also.
I don't know which twi YOU were in (twi-1, twi-2, or twi-3), but I was in twi-1.
Opening your mouth to voice oppositiion meant IMMEDIATE M & A.
Kinda like Communist China/ Russia/, etc. Voice your opinion, suffer the consequences.
You forget the nature of the ORG (beast) that we were dealing with.
Could you please speak English? TWI1, TWI2, TWI3, what is that?
First let me say how very sorry I am for what you have endured.
It takes a lot of courage to come forth and offer first hand testimony to such a traumatic experience.
There are probably some people in this world who would say to you, "Well, you should have told a teacher, a Sunday School teacher, a neighbor etc." But, I think, in your own mind, you know why that was not possible.
For what it's worth, I never saw any of this activity either but it certainly confirms many suspicions I had through the years.
Don't forget, we were never supposed to talk about things we suspected. We were supposed to "renew our minds".
Predators have an uncanny ability to sense who will be an easy prey. They must have sensed that you would not.
Have you spoken to anyone who is professionally trained to help with these things? Perhaps you might consider it.
TWI I, TWI II, TWI III refers to the time frame you are referencing.
TWI I, for example, refers to the years when VPW was at the helm.
Mark----That comment was spoken to a poster here at VPW's memorial service
I knew this was going to cause a problem, but chose to post anyway because I think it needed to be addressed.
I was around the Way from 1980 until 1988 as I have stated before. And in that time I never had an inkling about any of this. As an incest survivor there are hints, clues, something to warn you of the danger.
The only time I was even made aware that "leadership" was not to be questioned was when my own Corps sisters told me about Craig, and people in AOS. Before that, it was not pushed on me.
There were lots of people to tell, Shelby County Police, they were looking to shut down the farm, The FBI, your parents, a sibling any grown up with any sense would have helped in the situation.
Perhaps you weren't affected by your situation in the same way they were by theirs. Fine. Perhaps you simply live in denial of how you felt in your situation - I don't know. said by Abigail
I went from 80 pounds to 250 pounds in 6 years, hoping if I made myself ugly, he'd leave me alone. I bit my nails to stubs, I skipped two whole quarters of school, I made f's when I did show up because all I could think about was where can I hide til my parents came home? I lashed out at everyone, I started to tell a teacher, but my brother went to the same school, my own friends didn't believe me when I told them, when I did finally tell my parents, my mother had no reaction other than to keep preparing to out, and my dad tried to chop his pee pee off but missed, and that only served to make him even more mad. I was prey. And after that came the real threat, in the middle of the night, something he had never done before, he snuck into my room, clamped his hand over my mouth and said, "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, and it might not be next year, but I AM going to kill you" The look in his eyes told me I was screwed. Which is why i went to the woods to my spot and told God to kill him. I had done nothing wrong, I didn't bring any of this on, and I wanted a chance to have a happy childhood, so get him gone. 6 months later he died in a car accident. He suffered for three hours before he died. ah, what a pity. I thought Good, he should have suffered for an hour for every minute of torment I endured.
And that is the key, I endured and I won, He has been dead since 3:42am June 26, 1976, and I am still here.
I had no way out, but I knew God, I knew God loved me and that what I was going through was wrong and He helped me get through it and got rid of the problem. It was so bad Abigail, I told God at 12, if Gary goes to heaven I don't want to go. I was trapped in a house in the 1970's when this type of problem was not discussed or dealt with, and I came out the other side whole. Finally. I don't deny any of how it felt. It is a sad day when a child feels safer outside then it does in its own house. Check out my jaw, it pops, why? He broke it. I have scars all over from the physical abuse, from a spoon, from a piece of glass, from a Zippo lighter, from being tied up there are scars on my wrists, I had screamed myself hoarse, maybe I just allowed God to heal me and got over it. Hmmmmm, that sounds like godly advice to me.
I have found the longer you dwell on what the perp did the longer they exercise control STILL over your life. I forgave him. With that forgiveness which took years, trust me, came closure to the whole thing and I can talk about it and be objective about it, it doesn't hurt me anymore. It's just something tragic that happened when i was a kid, it does not define me now. But try to touch me if I don't want you to, first you will draw back a nub, and second, my relationship with God is stronger now that I don't have the bs from the PI and wrong doctrine we got taught, and God has rescued me from a perp back in 2004. God picked the guy up by the scruff of the neck and tossed him off me. And that friends, is in the police report to the PLPD.
I am not condemning anyone, I am asking what did you do, if anything, to try to stop this from happening to other people. Because within my own Corps, some of those girls were stupid enough to think it was an honor to have sex with "leadership" I asked them like I am asking here, don't you know right from wrong, you have the ability to think for yourself. No one in the Way ever tried to f### with my free will. I would have been gone so fast heads would have spun. That is the one thing that kept me from going insane in relation to my brother, he may have gotten my body to do what he wanted after all he was 6'6" 250 pounds of the meanest snake I ever met, and I was only 5' but he never got me to allow what was going on in my mind. I wouldn't let it. It was wrong, I knew it was wrong, and there had to be a way out.
I never felt mind controlled, I felt pushed around, but I wouldn't allow it. In residence if I didn't like a job assignment, I would go and bitch and my job would be changed. It didn't hurt that my tuition was paid weeks before I hit the door.
I never saw any of this side of this ministry, and never would have had I not googled vp in 2004. So what you people take for granted because "you have been in on it" for so long, this is still shocking to me. If it happened, I don't know, LIKE I SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST, I WASN'T THERE. I am taking the word of people who hide behind fake names, so if being skeptical bothers you I am sorry, it's a lot of absorb, and if I have honest questions, I am going to ask them. My intent wasn't to start world war three, evidently, some of you are real prickly, I didn't know the answer to the question, so I asked. If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.
LVP - consider that you come across as being rather prickly in the first post where you started asking questions.
It may not have been your intent- but to my "ear" it sounded like you were railing against anyone that didn't do as you did. There is a lot of self-righteous pride in the "sound" of your post.
I'm hoping that you're just writing off the top of your head and not implying that you were stronger or better or holier than those that did something different.
TWI was a different beast to different people. Add to that the fact that those who tried to expose any secret were summarily dismissed and defamed.
Can you find a way to back off on the righteous indignation and ask some simpler questions without the editorial? It would go a long way towards you getting some answers instead of griping and sniping.
Lucy, I am sickened and horrified by what you went through, and am glad the bastard is dead and cannot ever hurt you again.
But, you are also a newbie here. People did tell and were immediately escorted off grounds, labeled possessed, etc.
We didn't have the internet back then, if you did tell, no one believed you. When you returned home, you were ostracized.
Read the front page, do some searches.
Your self-righteous anger at Dot, Excath and others it totally misplaced and inappropriate.
From the tone of your posts, you sound like you still have a lot of anger and rage. You don't have them questioning you and wondering why you are still angry after all this time. Of course, without proof, White Dove and Oldies will assume you are lying about your situation. No "testimonials" for them. Can you back it up in a court of law, papers please, a pacer search so we can find the court transcript of your case please?
You will note though, that rest of us will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe what you have gone through. Just a heads up, don't be too surprised when WD doesn't believe your "claim."
I'm glad you think you know what Dot, Excath, and others should have done.
But you don't know them and don't know really, in regards to their situations, what you're talking about. I think you're being a little judgmental and self-righteous. Apples and oranges, your experience is different than theirs. Although, since you and them had been molested, I thought you, having been in their shoes would have shown a little more compassion.
Mark, here's the link to information about that quote: Mean man.
LVP, there is a lot of information here that you apparently haven't gotten to yet. May I kindly suggest that you spend some time looking up things like that and getting to know folks here a bit better before jumping to conclusions and judging people you obviously know nothing about.
There were women who spoke up - LOUDLY and OFTEN who suddenly disappeared.
There were women who were threated to the point of nervous breakdowns, suicide and worse.
There were women who were ridiculed and called liars.
There were men who spoke up, too.
Here's fresh cuppa joe and a good thread to get you started. I suggest asking questions and utilizing the search function on the forum since you've obviously (hopefully) given us the wrong impression of you.
I lashed out at everyone, I started to tell a teacher, but my brother went to the same school, my own friends didn't believe me when I told them, when I did finally tell my parents, my mother had no reaction other than to keep preparing to out, and my dad tried to chop his pee pee off but missed, and that only served to make him even more mad. I was prey. And after that came the real threat, in the middle of the night, something he had never done before, he snuck into my room, clamped his hand over my mouth and said, "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, and it might not be next year, but I AM going to kill you" The look in his eyes told me I was screwed.
Then you do know why some women never tell. You told and it didn't stop it. You told and things went from bad to worse. You told and people didn't believe you.
You do know - experientially.
I can't speak specifically to Dot or Excathedra or any other woman's situation and decisions. However, I would be happy to continue this further with you in private messaging if you would like.
Your tone in your initial post did come across as very harsh and very judgmental and that is why I responded the way I did. Especially after all of the discussion and threads we have discussing the topic of respect and compassion, a harsh tone seemed highly inappropriate. However, sometimes we do not come across the way we intend to when posting on the internet. I apologize if I jumped to the wrong conclusion in that regard.
I never saw any of this side of this ministry, and never would have had I not googled vp in 2004. So what you people take for granted because "you have been in on it" for so long, this is still shocking to me. If it happened, I don't know, LIKE I SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST, I WASN'T THERE. I am taking the word of people who hide behind fake names, so if being skeptical bothers you I am sorry, it's a lot of absorb, and if I have honest questions, I am going to ask them. My intent wasn't to start world war three, evidently, some of you are real prickly, I didn't know the answer to the question, so I asked. If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.
Apparently you haven't read far enough... Kris Skedgell is a REAL person who posts here using her REAL name. She wrote a book about her experience. She has been interviewed by pawtucket for two GS radio interviews... what more do you need?
I am kinda mad at you ladies. A lot of people would have been saved the hurt and agony had you gone screaming from the room and told on him.
Are you serious?????:blink:
You are trying to blame victims for what happened to other victims?
How DARE you? You have just set women back at least 30 years, minimally. Not to even mention those here who took YEARS to even tell us, who they trusted to believe them and assist them.
We tell these women, everywhere not to be afraid, and you come out with this feces, this puke?
Wow, stunning, just stunning and what a sad sad shame for you.
As an incest survivor there are hints, clues, something to warn you of the danger.
Not always. Especially with a "Christian" organization where one would never expect to find that kind of behavior.
The only time I was even made aware that "leadership" was not to be questioned was when my own Corps sisters told me about Craig, and people in AOS. Before that, it was not pushed on me.
so people DID tell you about some things. What did you do? Why didn't you say something? Go to the police? FBI? Other leadership? Surely you recognized this as inappropriate.
... all I could think about was where can I hide til my parents came home? I lashed out at everyone, I started to tell a teacher, but my brother went to the same school, my own friends didn't believe me when I told them, when I did finally tell my parents, my mother had no reaction other than to keep preparing to out, and my dad tried to chop his pee pee off but missed, and that only served to make him even more mad. I was prey.
So why do you think you're any different than ex, Dot and the many, many other women preyed on by vee pee and/or craig? You know what they went through - you just had a different perp abusing you.
And that is the key, I endured and I won, He has been dead since 3:42am June 26, 1976, and I am still here.
Ditto those women you have lashed out against.
I had no way out, but I knew God,
At least you "knew God" - These women were abused by someone who represented God - think about how much more messed up that can make you.
I was trapped in a house in the 1970's when this type of problem was not discussed or dealt with.......
HELLOOOOO.... when do you think these things with vee pee happened?!?
It is a sad day when a child feels safer outside then it does in its own house.
It's a really sad day when a child doesn't feel safe at home NOR IN THE CHURCH where she should feel the safest.
If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.
How's about not attacking in your questions or assuming the worst? How's about giving the victims the benefit of the doubt in the way you phrase your questions?
And, a lot of those "fake names" are only "fake" to people like you. People who have earned their trust know who they are and many have been friends with them since day 1 of their involvement with TWI. ;)
Dunno if you're aware or not, but TWI monitors this website very closely and goes to great lengths to discover who the posters are. They actually use that information when and however they can. But you'll have to do a bit of digging to find out details on that if you're really interested. There are lots of reasons why people want to maintain their privacy on the WORLD WIDE WEB.
Maybe you're not really smarky. I sincerely hope not. I do hope that you consider how your words come across when there's no body language or tone of voice to follow. Perhaps a little more editing is all that's needed to give us the proper impression of you?
I never saw any of this side of this ministry, and never would have had I not googled vp in 2004.
So what you people take for granted because "you have been in on it" for so long,
this is still shocking to me. If it happened, I don't know,
LIKE I SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST, I WASN'T THERE.
I am taking the word of people who hide behind fake names, so if being skeptical bothers you I am sorry, it's a lot of absorb, and if I have honest questions, I am going to ask them. My intent wasn't to start world war three, evidently, some of you are real prickly, I didn't know the answer to the question, so I asked. If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.
Lucy --- Hi there. dmiller (David Miller) here.
Originally from Bloomington Indiana, and now in Duluth Minnesota.
I came to Duluth as a WOW in 1978, and never left.
I've never had an anonymous name out here on the web.
It's ALWAYS been dmiller. (I'd feel remiss if I took another name!!)
For what it's worth ---- I FIRST got a computer in 2003,
and it took me 10 months to discover the internet.
Back then --- the computer was just an expensive CD player.
I had NO use for it other than that.
I got a free disc from AOL for internet, and decided to give it a try.
Guess what the FIRST thing was I looked up?? Yup. The Way International.
The first site I was directed to was No Way Out.
I found stories there of former folks I knew (like R!ck P@ny@rd) who was convicted in Colorado for embezzlement of funds from some widow (or something -- I forget now).
R!ck used to be a SOMEBODY back in Indiana, as the southern Indiana LEADER.
He was there the same time Kris Skedgell was there. Yea --- same town. 1975.
It was an eyeopener to me too, when I first started seeing all the *dirty laundry* being posted on the internet too. I'm like you --- I NEVER saw any of this happening in my area, twig, branch, etc.
Because it didn't happen to you, or if it's now News that you haven't heard of ------ >>>
Don't worry about it. Every last somebody learns from other poster's experiences here.
I hope you can too. :)
Oh -- by the way (speaking of false names) --- I'm to assume you really ARE Lucy van Pelt, eh???
I don't suppose you have a bridge for sale either?? Or would that be too much to hope for??
Thank you for your kind loving post to me and to Ex.
I see you were severely abused and are angry nobody stepped in to defend you. I understand, how you might then think everyone may fall into some kind of a category, whereby, they could have stopped abuse if only they did this or that. Perhaps, you have played the “if only” scenario in your head, repeatedly. But I think you have unjustly clumped all things into too neat a package. People who know should speak up and all abuse would stop if they spoke up.
I respond to you, painfully aware of your abuse, but in kind to the curt remarks you made to me and to Excathedra. For I shall not let it slide. I am “speaking up” to you for your judgment of me in your post.
There were about 50 people there. We were broken into groups. The corps coordinator knew, the elder corps, the visiting clergy. They all knew. Exactly, whom should we have told; you? The sold out followers of the Drambuie king? The man who could no wrong? People like you?
You can hardly navigate your way around here without asphyxiating on the vomit that was taught to you in TWI and defending it as if it were a holistic diet to be enjoyed by all forever. By your own post you knew something happened to your corps sister yet I never heard of your noble endeavors to fight for justice. I do not see you archived as one who made a difference and stopped the abuse by your declaration of truth or defense of your corps sister.
No, you and your phariseedical behaviors, I have seen in your posts, would surely have believed Craig and the others at the lunchtime announcement that we were possessed.
You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted..
It seems that you, however, are still eating poop and calling pabulum.
I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
In response to:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but Dot Matrix and Excathedra and other "Corps" heard VP say he was being inappropriate with daughters?
You had to be in residence before me, I was 14th I am DFAC. Which I call it, Done Farting Around with Carnals.
I am kinda mad at you ladies. A lot of people would have been saved the hurt and agony had you gone screaming from the room and told on him.
There are no excuses in my opinion for allowing that kind of behavior on any level.
So I would very much appreciate an explanation as to why you didn't say something. And please no rationalizations either. I would have run my mouth til they shot me dead. I am a survivor, I had to endure being raped, beaten up, choked, shot at, by an earthly brother for years. I told on him, it didn't stop him, but when I told God to kill him, it finally ended. June 26, 1976 that pig suffered a slow horrible death and died. Only within the past couple of years have I been able to forgive him and let it go.
So why didn't you tell somebody? Anybody?
I find it suspect at best that all the accusations of VP and others only come out after they are dead. I think that is what most opposers have a problem with, if it happened, and I can't say it didn't, I wasn't there, why in the hell did you not speak up???????????? To me, it makes you just as responsible as the molester. You allowed it.
After reading this topic from beginning to now, this is the question that keeps popping up. IMHO, it never had to get as far as it did.
There is no politically correct way to ask this, but it does deserve some thought and an honest answer.
JLL
You make the continued abuse Ex's and my fault rather than be shocked that the abuse took place - thereby, you have navigated people away from the issue, and have changed the victims into the criminals. So, by your own standards, I speak up now and say, "Oh, no you don't"
LVP - consider that you come across as being rather prickly in the first post where you started asking questions.
It may not have been your intent- but to my "ear" it sounded like you were railing against anyone that didn't do as you did. There is a lot of self-righteous pride in the "sound" of your post.
I'm hoping that you're just writing off the top of your head and not implying that you were stronger or better or holier than those that did something different.
TWI was a different beast to different people. Add to that the fact that those who tried to expose any secret were summarily dismissed and defamed.
Can you find a way to back off on the righteous indignation and ask some simpler questions without the editorial? It would go a long way towards you getting some answers instead of griping and sniping.
I had no intentions of being prickly, and I asked Excathedra and Dot Matrix the questions since Dot mentioned they were both in the room when Veep said he molested his kids, I was looking for a timeframe, what was the mood of the country and TWI at the time, and since doojable wasn't there, can you step back and let me speak with them.
If you think that my questions were railing, maybe you are paranoid.
I am righteous, as righteous as you, if you are born again. Don't make me self righteous, I think you are again paranoid.
For somebody that doesn't care for self righteous smugness, you sue made a lot of ASSumptions. You don't even know me.
I respond to you, painfully aware of your abuse, but in kind to the curt remarks you made to me and to Excathedra. For I shall not let it slide. I am “speaking up” to you for your judgment of me in your post.
There were about 50 people there. We were broken into groups. The corps coordinator knew, the elder corps, the visiting clergy. They all knew. Exactly, whom should we have told; you? The sold out followers of the Drambuie king? The man who could no wrong? People like you?
You can hardly navigate your way around here without asphyxiating on the vomit that was taught to you in TWI and defending it as if it were a holistic diet to be enjoyed by all forever. By your own post you knew something happened to your corps sister yet I never heard of your noble endeavors to fight for justice. I do not see you archived as one who made a difference and stopped the abuse by your declaration of truth or defense of your corps sister.
No, you and your phariseedical behaviors, I have seen in your posts, would surely have believed Craig and the others at the lunchtime announcement that we were possessed.
You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted..
It seems that you, however, you are still eating poop and calling pabulum.
I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
In response to:
You make the continued abuse Ex's and my fault rather than be shocked that the abuse took place - thereby, you have navigated people away from the issue, and have changed the victims into the criminals. So, by your own standards, I speak up now and say, "Oh, no you don't"
I appreciate that you responded. My remarks were never intended as curt, if you or anyone takes them that way that is YOUR reading something into what is honestly not there. I just wanted to know where were you, did your head pop up and look around to see if anybody else heard what you just heard? Did you try to do anything at the time? Were you scared? At that point I don't think I would have "told" anybody, I would have packed my stuff and headed on down the road. BTW, when I first got wind of some this crap, that is exactly what I did. Nobody was holding at any of the root locales against our wills. If that happened, I will be shocked.
Yeah, I knew Teri Gill was banging Craig, we confronted her, she blew us off (not literally) and went about her business, i never had anything to do with her again. If she wanted to bang him, have at it, it's her business and Craigs's and she ws not forced against her will, it's how she got him to do Athletes of the Spirit to begin with. Dr. told him not to, he wasn't going to, and that female talked him into it. I was there for that, I know that to be fact.
I would not have thought anyone possessed who was forced to do anything against their will. Nope, you have no idea what you are talking about. I would have called my dad, gotten you a lawyer and that would have been that, I always defend the weak. And yeah, I am strong. God made me strong. And I am sorry that any of this happened to anyone. Because it stole God's Word from you and others like you. NOT PFAL, whatever God's Word you knew, was queered, stolen, forever harmed because of all this. And that makes me so mad I want to go to HQ and dig that grave up and stomp his foot...
You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted.. Dot wrote that. that's what I was asking, with as mouthy as you are, I know you had to have done something. I am just trying to figure out how far extended this was.
It seems that you, however, you are still eating poop and calling pabulum. Dot wrote. I am not judging anyone here, I am asking questions, and you have no idea who I am, what I believe and who I associate with. YOU ASSUME.
I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Dot wrote.
I am completely delivered from the abuse my brother caused me. To the end that I know miss him, I remember his football heros, his all time hero, Johnny Unitas, Roman Gabriel, O.J. Simpson, Bart Starr, and Bruce Lee. He loved green. The whole thing. Every shade and every tint, and I also remember that the very very first time it happened it happened so fast I didn't remember it, he only got mad and sought revenge when i rejected the act, he thought I rejected him. So if I see him again, it won't bother me. I forgave him. It's over. And it feels great!
i do not associate with the Way, I do not freely avail myself to the Way, I have not had anything to do with them since June 1988. Bob Stanley is the first innie I have talked to since I packed my crayons and went home. And he is deluded to say the least.
I am healthy, ask my shrink. I am what they call a 4 month patient, I go once every four months get my meds, and move on down the road. If they thought I had a problem, I would still be in therapy. Maybe you don't know what healthy is, perhaps??
Honey, you aren't woman enough to rock my boat. I'd have to give a s###t about what you are saying first. And none of it phases me really.
I live in reality world, I also live my life based on God's Word which is what I have learned from 2004 til today. And frankly a lot of that was excising the wrong teaching that kept us away from the truth. And besides that God likes me. He just favors me, because I am stupid enough to take Him at His Word. So if I am crazy, fine, call me crazy, I don't care.
May God help you not hate the world because you had a rough life. Or slam into walls because your personal hatred has made you blind. For that hate can twist facts and cripple you even further.
There are many here who have suffered abuse, you are not so different than many women who found their way into TWI. So, your personal story, although compelling, does not give you a license to prance your self-righteous azz into my life on the accusatory. Did you read your post? Do you think maybe you were a bit out of line in the way you presented?
But I have read that you also have a chemical imbalance that you posted elsewhere in the cafe, so I am not going to engage you in battle. I am not shy of battle, nor do I think I would loose, its just I recognize you come ill equipped considering your past abuse and your "chemical imbalance" with which you are dealing. (I am not devulging anything you did not post and it truly is revealing to me, why you speak as you do, have a need to always be right, etc. is all part of that illness, I am not using this as a jab but as a point of understanding)
I do not want to be responsible for pushing you to a place you cannot handle. I am well aware of bi-polars and how much they can and cannot handle. So, I said my piece. You can argue, twist, justify and or play the sympathy card... I do not care.
Most are smart enough to see through that. Some may be drawn into the subtle twist of the perpetrator VP to Ex and I being responsible for the crimes by not getting someone to "stop it". Which is a mighty tall order from a woman who did nothing herself. (The whole glass house and stone throwing saying applies here)
You were wrong in the way you approached Ex and myself. And it is obviously drenched in a pain, independent of TWI, with which you still struggle. Perhaps, if you get help with the identifiable abuse, and the identifiable abuser in your life you will also be delivered of your cult problems.
See you say the problem with your brother is over and it feels great and yet it is the FIRST card you played in order to justify your treatment of me and EX when posters called you on it. So, you are either NOT over it, or use it to manipulate a sympathy in an effort to "be right" again, a triat of bi-polar disorder. A disorder from which there is no cure only continued medication therapy and counseling. It is a tough thing to struggle with and many people with sexual abuse in their past have that struggle.
I know you weren't speaking to me but the time frame would have been about 1974 or 1975 to the best of my recollections.
Oh you are kidding. I wish I had known that, I would have told them to shove that green card. I can't believe that I never sniffed any of this out til now. Now I am really ....ed.
Makes me want to plow that whole area slap under. Man, if my parents knew this, doo doo would have hit the fan. My daddy knew people. High up in government people, people that like to eat non profits for lunch people. They supported me in this endeavor.
I am sick to my stomach.
Lucy
May God help you not hate the world because you had a rough life. Or slam into walls because your personal hatred has made you blind. For that hate can twist facts and cripple you even further.
There are many here who have suffered abuse, you are not so different than many women who found their way into TWI. So, your personal story, although compelling, does not give you a license to prance your self-righteous azz into my life on the accusatory. Did you read your post? Do you think maybe you were a bit out of line in the way you presented?
But I have read that you also have a chemical imbalance that you posted elsewhere in the cafe, so I am not going to engage you in battle. I am not shy of battle, nor do I think I would loose, its just I recognize you come ill equipped considering your past abuse and your "chemical imbalance" with which you are dealing. (I am not devulging anything you did not post and it truly is revealing to me, why you speak as you do, have a need to always be right, etc. is all part of that illness, I am not using this as a jab but as a point of understanding)
I do not want to be responsible for pushing you to a place you cannot handle. I am well aware of bi-polars and how much they can and cannot handle. So, I said my piece. You can argue, twist, justify and or play the sympathy card... I do not care.
Most are smart enough to see through that. Some may be drawn into the subtle twist of the perpetrator VP to Ex and I being responsible for the crimes by not getting someone to "stop it". Which is a mighty tall order from a woman who did nothing herself. (The whole glass house and stone throwing saying applies here)
You were wrong in the way you approached Ex and myself. And it is obviously drenched in a pain, independent of TWI, with which you still struggle. Perhaps, if you get help with the identifiable abuse, and the identifiable abuser in your life you will also be delivered of your cult problems.
I wish you well.
Lucy honey, take your medication. Then, it will be a fair fight.
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geisha779
Hi, Revictimizing the victims of abuse is itself abusive. It speaks volumes about the one doing it. What they still adhere to shapes their perspective and ability to inflict cruelty on those so horr
lucyvanpelt
I knew this was going to cause a problem, but chose to post anyway because I think it needed to be addressed.
I was around the Way from 1980 until 1988 as I have stated before. And in that time I never had an inkling about any of this. As an incest survivor there are hints, clues, something to warn you of the danger.
The only time I was even made aware that "leadership" was not to be questioned was when my own Corps sisters told me about Craig, and people in AOS. Before that, it was not pushed on me.
There were lots of people to tell, Shelby County Police, they were looking to shut down the farm, The FBI, your parents, a sibling any grown up with any sense would have helped in the situation.
Perhaps you weren't affected by your situation in the same way they were by theirs. Fine. Perhaps you simply live in denial of how you felt in your situation - I don't know. said by Abigail
I went from 80 pounds to 250 pounds in 6 years, hoping if I made myself ugly, he'd leave me alone. I bit my nails to stubs, I skipped two whole quarters of school, I made f's when I did show up because all I could think about was where can I hide til my parents came home? I lashed out at everyone, I started to tell a teacher, but my brother went to the same school, my own friends didn't believe me when I told them, when I did finally tell my parents, my mother had no reaction other than to keep preparing to out, and my dad tried to chop his pee pee off but missed, and that only served to make him even more mad. I was prey. And after that came the real threat, in the middle of the night, something he had never done before, he snuck into my room, clamped his hand over my mouth and said, "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, and it might not be next year, but I AM going to kill you" The look in his eyes told me I was screwed. Which is why i went to the woods to my spot and told God to kill him. I had done nothing wrong, I didn't bring any of this on, and I wanted a chance to have a happy childhood, so get him gone. 6 months later he died in a car accident. He suffered for three hours before he died. ah, what a pity. I thought Good, he should have suffered for an hour for every minute of torment I endured.
And that is the key, I endured and I won, He has been dead since 3:42am June 26, 1976, and I am still here.
I had no way out, but I knew God, I knew God loved me and that what I was going through was wrong and He helped me get through it and got rid of the problem. It was so bad Abigail, I told God at 12, if Gary goes to heaven I don't want to go. I was trapped in a house in the 1970's when this type of problem was not discussed or dealt with, and I came out the other side whole. Finally. I don't deny any of how it felt. It is a sad day when a child feels safer outside then it does in its own house. Check out my jaw, it pops, why? He broke it. I have scars all over from the physical abuse, from a spoon, from a piece of glass, from a Zippo lighter, from being tied up there are scars on my wrists, I had screamed myself hoarse, maybe I just allowed God to heal me and got over it. Hmmmmm, that sounds like godly advice to me.
I have found the longer you dwell on what the perp did the longer they exercise control STILL over your life. I forgave him. With that forgiveness which took years, trust me, came closure to the whole thing and I can talk about it and be objective about it, it doesn't hurt me anymore. It's just something tragic that happened when i was a kid, it does not define me now. But try to touch me if I don't want you to, first you will draw back a nub, and second, my relationship with God is stronger now that I don't have the bs from the PI and wrong doctrine we got taught, and God has rescued me from a perp back in 2004. God picked the guy up by the scruff of the neck and tossed him off me. And that friends, is in the police report to the PLPD.
I am not condemning anyone, I am asking what did you do, if anything, to try to stop this from happening to other people. Because within my own Corps, some of those girls were stupid enough to think it was an honor to have sex with "leadership" I asked them like I am asking here, don't you know right from wrong, you have the ability to think for yourself. No one in the Way ever tried to f### with my free will. I would have been gone so fast heads would have spun. That is the one thing that kept me from going insane in relation to my brother, he may have gotten my body to do what he wanted after all he was 6'6" 250 pounds of the meanest snake I ever met, and I was only 5' but he never got me to allow what was going on in my mind. I wouldn't let it. It was wrong, I knew it was wrong, and there had to be a way out.
I never felt mind controlled, I felt pushed around, but I wouldn't allow it. In residence if I didn't like a job assignment, I would go and bitch and my job would be changed. It didn't hurt that my tuition was paid weeks before I hit the door.
I never saw any of this side of this ministry, and never would have had I not googled vp in 2004. So what you people take for granted because "you have been in on it" for so long, this is still shocking to me. If it happened, I don't know, LIKE I SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST, I WASN'T THERE. I am taking the word of people who hide behind fake names, so if being skeptical bothers you I am sorry, it's a lot of absorb, and if I have honest questions, I am going to ask them. My intent wasn't to start world war three, evidently, some of you are real prickly, I didn't know the answer to the question, so I asked. If you get mad and get defensive it is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.
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lucyvanpelt
Could you please speak English? TWI1, TWI2, TWI3, what is that?
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Mark Clarke
I hadn't heard about that. When did she say this?
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waysider
Lucy
First let me say how very sorry I am for what you have endured.
It takes a lot of courage to come forth and offer first hand testimony to such a traumatic experience.
There are probably some people in this world who would say to you, "Well, you should have told a teacher, a Sunday School teacher, a neighbor etc." But, I think, in your own mind, you know why that was not possible.
For what it's worth, I never saw any of this activity either but it certainly confirms many suspicions I had through the years.
Don't forget, we were never supposed to talk about things we suspected. We were supposed to "renew our minds".
Predators have an uncanny ability to sense who will be an easy prey. They must have sensed that you would not.
Have you spoken to anyone who is professionally trained to help with these things? Perhaps you might consider it.
TWI I, TWI II, TWI III refers to the time frame you are referencing.
TWI I, for example, refers to the years when VPW was at the helm.
Mark----That comment was spoken to a poster here at VPW's memorial service
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doojable
LVP - consider that you come across as being rather prickly in the first post where you started asking questions.
It may not have been your intent- but to my "ear" it sounded like you were railing against anyone that didn't do as you did. There is a lot of self-righteous pride in the "sound" of your post.
I'm hoping that you're just writing off the top of your head and not implying that you were stronger or better or holier than those that did something different.
TWI was a different beast to different people. Add to that the fact that those who tried to expose any secret were summarily dismissed and defamed.
Can you find a way to back off on the righteous indignation and ask some simpler questions without the editorial? It would go a long way towards you getting some answers instead of griping and sniping.
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waysider
2x post
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cman
Everyone is not the same lucy.
You still stayed too.
A lot did, even after '88 knowing a lot.
Their motives were different I suppose.
Perhaps some the same.
Why do you not inquire with patience and understanding?
Your situation could have been met with something besides what you did also.
Same as the others.
They had reasons, just like you.
Though being 'in' is a different look then not.
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dmiller
twi -1 docvic years;
twi -2 lcm years;
twi -3 rosie
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Sunesis
Lucy, I am sickened and horrified by what you went through, and am glad the bastard is dead and cannot ever hurt you again.
But, you are also a newbie here. People did tell and were immediately escorted off grounds, labeled possessed, etc.
We didn't have the internet back then, if you did tell, no one believed you. When you returned home, you were ostracized.
Read the front page, do some searches.
Your self-righteous anger at Dot, Excath and others it totally misplaced and inappropriate.
From the tone of your posts, you sound like you still have a lot of anger and rage. You don't have them questioning you and wondering why you are still angry after all this time. Of course, without proof, White Dove and Oldies will assume you are lying about your situation. No "testimonials" for them. Can you back it up in a court of law, papers please, a pacer search so we can find the court transcript of your case please?
You will note though, that rest of us will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe what you have gone through. Just a heads up, don't be too surprised when WD doesn't believe your "claim."
I'm glad you think you know what Dot, Excath, and others should have done.
But you don't know them and don't know really, in regards to their situations, what you're talking about. I think you're being a little judgmental and self-righteous. Apples and oranges, your experience is different than theirs. Although, since you and them had been molested, I thought you, having been in their shoes would have shown a little more compassion.
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Belle
Mark, here's the link to information about that quote: Mean man.
LVP, there is a lot of information here that you apparently haven't gotten to yet. May I kindly suggest that you spend some time looking up things like that and getting to know folks here a bit better before jumping to conclusions and judging people you obviously know nothing about.
There were women who spoke up - LOUDLY and OFTEN who suddenly disappeared.
There were women who were threated to the point of nervous breakdowns, suicide and worse.
There were women who were ridiculed and called liars.
There were men who spoke up, too.
Here's fresh cuppa joe and a good thread to get you started. I suggest asking questions and utilizing the search function on the forum since you've obviously (hopefully) given us the wrong impression of you.
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Abigail
Then you do know why some women never tell. You told and it didn't stop it. You told and things went from bad to worse. You told and people didn't believe you.
You do know - experientially.
I can't speak specifically to Dot or Excathedra or any other woman's situation and decisions. However, I would be happy to continue this further with you in private messaging if you would like.
Your tone in your initial post did come across as very harsh and very judgmental and that is why I responded the way I did. Especially after all of the discussion and threads we have discussing the topic of respect and compassion, a harsh tone seemed highly inappropriate. However, sometimes we do not come across the way we intend to when posting on the internet. I apologize if I jumped to the wrong conclusion in that regard.
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Rocky
Apparently you haven't read far enough... Kris Skedgell is a REAL person who posts here using her REAL name. She wrote a book about her experience. She has been interviewed by pawtucket for two GS radio interviews... what more do you need?
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waysider
Here it is, lucy.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ng-the-way.html
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ng-the-way.html
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Shellon
Are you serious?????:blink:
You are trying to blame victims for what happened to other victims?
How DARE you? You have just set women back at least 30 years, minimally. Not to even mention those here who took YEARS to even tell us, who they trusted to believe them and assist them.
We tell these women, everywhere not to be afraid, and you come out with this feces, this puke?
Wow, stunning, just stunning and what a sad sad shame for you.
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Belle
Not always. Especially with a "Christian" organization where one would never expect to find that kind of behavior.
so people DID tell you about some things. What did you do? Why didn't you say something? Go to the police? FBI? Other leadership? Surely you recognized this as inappropriate.
So why do you think you're any different than ex, Dot and the many, many other women preyed on by vee pee and/or craig? You know what they went through - you just had a different perp abusing you.
Ditto those women you have lashed out against.
At least you "knew God" - These women were abused by someone who represented God - think about how much more messed up that can make you.
HELLOOOOO.... when do you think these things with vee pee happened?!?
It's a really sad day when a child doesn't feel safe at home NOR IN THE CHURCH where she should feel the safest.
How's about not attacking in your questions or assuming the worst? How's about giving the victims the benefit of the doubt in the way you phrase your questions?
And, a lot of those "fake names" are only "fake" to people like you. People who have earned their trust know who they are and many have been friends with them since day 1 of their involvement with TWI. ;)
Dunno if you're aware or not, but TWI monitors this website very closely and goes to great lengths to discover who the posters are. They actually use that information when and however they can. But you'll have to do a bit of digging to find out details on that if you're really interested. There are lots of reasons why people want to maintain their privacy on the WORLD WIDE WEB.
Maybe you're not really smarky. I sincerely hope not. I do hope that you consider how your words come across when there's no body language or tone of voice to follow. Perhaps a little more editing is all that's needed to give us the proper impression of you?
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dmiller
Lucy --- Hi there. dmiller (David Miller) here.
Originally from Bloomington Indiana, and now in Duluth Minnesota.
I came to Duluth as a WOW in 1978, and never left.
I've never had an anonymous name out here on the web.
It's ALWAYS been dmiller. (I'd feel remiss if I took another name!!)
For what it's worth ---- I FIRST got a computer in 2003,
and it took me 10 months to discover the internet.
Back then --- the computer was just an expensive CD player.
I had NO use for it other than that.
I got a free disc from AOL for internet, and decided to give it a try.
Guess what the FIRST thing was I looked up?? Yup. The Way International.
The first site I was directed to was No Way Out.
I found stories there of former folks I knew (like R!ck P@ny@rd) who was convicted in Colorado for embezzlement of funds from some widow (or something -- I forget now).
R!ck used to be a SOMEBODY back in Indiana, as the southern Indiana LEADER.
He was there the same time Kris Skedgell was there. Yea --- same town. 1975.
It was an eyeopener to me too, when I first started seeing all the *dirty laundry* being posted on the internet too. I'm like you --- I NEVER saw any of this happening in my area, twig, branch, etc.
Because it didn't happen to you, or if it's now News that you haven't heard of ------ >>>
Don't worry about it. Every last somebody learns from other poster's experiences here.
I hope you can too. :)
Oh -- by the way (speaking of false names) --- I'm to assume you really ARE Lucy van Pelt, eh???
I don't suppose you have a bridge for sale either?? Or would that be too much to hope for??
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Dot Matrix
Thank you for your kind loving post to me and to Ex.
I see you were severely abused and are angry nobody stepped in to defend you. I understand, how you might then think everyone may fall into some kind of a category, whereby, they could have stopped abuse if only they did this or that. Perhaps, you have played the “if only” scenario in your head, repeatedly. But I think you have unjustly clumped all things into too neat a package. People who know should speak up and all abuse would stop if they spoke up.
I respond to you, painfully aware of your abuse, but in kind to the curt remarks you made to me and to Excathedra. For I shall not let it slide. I am “speaking up” to you for your judgment of me in your post.
There were about 50 people there. We were broken into groups. The corps coordinator knew, the elder corps, the visiting clergy. They all knew. Exactly, whom should we have told; you? The sold out followers of the Drambuie king? The man who could no wrong? People like you?
You can hardly navigate your way around here without asphyxiating on the vomit that was taught to you in TWI and defending it as if it were a holistic diet to be enjoyed by all forever. By your own post you knew something happened to your corps sister yet I never heard of your noble endeavors to fight for justice. I do not see you archived as one who made a difference and stopped the abuse by your declaration of truth or defense of your corps sister.
No, you and your phariseedical behaviors, I have seen in your posts, would surely have believed Craig and the others at the lunchtime announcement that we were possessed.
You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted..
It seems that you, however, are still eating poop and calling pabulum.
I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
In response to:
You make the continued abuse Ex's and my fault rather than be shocked that the abuse took place - thereby, you have navigated people away from the issue, and have changed the victims into the criminals. So, by your own standards, I speak up now and say, "Oh, no you don't"
Edited to add comas for clarity
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lucyvanpelt
I had no intentions of being prickly, and I asked Excathedra and Dot Matrix the questions since Dot mentioned they were both in the room when Veep said he molested his kids, I was looking for a timeframe, what was the mood of the country and TWI at the time, and since doojable wasn't there, can you step back and let me speak with them.
If you think that my questions were railing, maybe you are paranoid.
I am righteous, as righteous as you, if you are born again. Don't make me self righteous, I think you are again paranoid.
For somebody that doesn't care for self righteous smugness, you sue made a lot of ASSumptions. You don't even know me.
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waysider
Lucy
I know you weren't speaking to me but the time frame would have been about 1974 or 1975 to the best of my recollections.
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Dot Matrix
Nor do you know me.
And yet you ASSume plenty.
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doojable
Lucy - Really?
This would be funny if it weren't so sad.
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lucyvanpelt
I appreciate that you responded. My remarks were never intended as curt, if you or anyone takes them that way that is YOUR reading something into what is honestly not there. I just wanted to know where were you, did your head pop up and look around to see if anybody else heard what you just heard? Did you try to do anything at the time? Were you scared? At that point I don't think I would have "told" anybody, I would have packed my stuff and headed on down the road. BTW, when I first got wind of some this crap, that is exactly what I did. Nobody was holding at any of the root locales against our wills. If that happened, I will be shocked.
Yeah, I knew Teri Gill was banging Craig, we confronted her, she blew us off (not literally) and went about her business, i never had anything to do with her again. If she wanted to bang him, have at it, it's her business and Craigs's and she ws not forced against her will, it's how she got him to do Athletes of the Spirit to begin with. Dr. told him not to, he wasn't going to, and that female talked him into it. I was there for that, I know that to be fact.
I would not have thought anyone possessed who was forced to do anything against their will. Nope, you have no idea what you are talking about. I would have called my dad, gotten you a lawyer and that would have been that, I always defend the weak. And yeah, I am strong. God made me strong. And I am sorry that any of this happened to anyone. Because it stole God's Word from you and others like you. NOT PFAL, whatever God's Word you knew, was queered, stolen, forever harmed because of all this. And that makes me so mad I want to go to HQ and dig that grave up and stomp his foot...
You have NO idea how I fought and what I fought and whom I confronted.. Dot wrote that. that's what I was asking, with as mouthy as you are, I know you had to have done something. I am just trying to figure out how far extended this was.
It seems that you, however, you are still eating poop and calling pabulum. Dot wrote. I am not judging anyone here, I am asking questions, and you have no idea who I am, what I believe and who I associate with. YOU ASSUME.
I truly hope you heal from the horrors of your childhood. But with your adherence and defense of the “cult” I think you are a long way from being healthy. So, I will disenfranchise myself from your post at this point – because frankly, it is just too easy. And I do not want to push you over the precipice on which you teeter. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Dot wrote.
I am completely delivered from the abuse my brother caused me. To the end that I know miss him, I remember his football heros, his all time hero, Johnny Unitas, Roman Gabriel, O.J. Simpson, Bart Starr, and Bruce Lee. He loved green. The whole thing. Every shade and every tint, and I also remember that the very very first time it happened it happened so fast I didn't remember it, he only got mad and sought revenge when i rejected the act, he thought I rejected him. So if I see him again, it won't bother me. I forgave him. It's over. And it feels great!
i do not associate with the Way, I do not freely avail myself to the Way, I have not had anything to do with them since June 1988. Bob Stanley is the first innie I have talked to since I packed my crayons and went home. And he is deluded to say the least.
I am healthy, ask my shrink. I am what they call a 4 month patient, I go once every four months get my meds, and move on down the road. If they thought I had a problem, I would still be in therapy. Maybe you don't know what healthy is, perhaps??
Honey, you aren't woman enough to rock my boat. I'd have to give a s###t about what you are saying first. And none of it phases me really.
I live in reality world, I also live my life based on God's Word which is what I have learned from 2004 til today. And frankly a lot of that was excising the wrong teaching that kept us away from the truth. And besides that God likes me. He just favors me, because I am stupid enough to take Him at His Word. So if I am crazy, fine, call me crazy, I don't care.
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Dot Matrix
Lucy
May God help you not hate the world because you had a rough life. Or slam into walls because your personal hatred has made you blind. For that hate can twist facts and cripple you even further.
There are many here who have suffered abuse, you are not so different than many women who found their way into TWI. So, your personal story, although compelling, does not give you a license to prance your self-righteous azz into my life on the accusatory. Did you read your post? Do you think maybe you were a bit out of line in the way you presented?
But I have read that you also have a chemical imbalance that you posted elsewhere in the cafe, so I am not going to engage you in battle. I am not shy of battle, nor do I think I would loose, its just I recognize you come ill equipped considering your past abuse and your "chemical imbalance" with which you are dealing. (I am not devulging anything you did not post and it truly is revealing to me, why you speak as you do, have a need to always be right, etc. is all part of that illness, I am not using this as a jab but as a point of understanding)
I do not want to be responsible for pushing you to a place you cannot handle. I am well aware of bi-polars and how much they can and cannot handle. So, I said my piece. You can argue, twist, justify and or play the sympathy card... I do not care.
Most are smart enough to see through that. Some may be drawn into the subtle twist of the perpetrator VP to Ex and I being responsible for the crimes by not getting someone to "stop it". Which is a mighty tall order from a woman who did nothing herself. (The whole glass house and stone throwing saying applies here)
You were wrong in the way you approached Ex and myself. And it is obviously drenched in a pain, independent of TWI, with which you still struggle. Perhaps, if you get help with the identifiable abuse, and the identifiable abuser in your life you will also be delivered of your cult problems.
See you say the problem with your brother is over and it feels great and yet it is the FIRST card you played in order to justify your treatment of me and EX when posters called you on it. So, you are either NOT over it, or use it to manipulate a sympathy in an effort to "be right" again, a triat of bi-polar disorder. A disorder from which there is no cure only continued medication therapy and counseling. It is a tough thing to struggle with and many people with sexual abuse in their past have that struggle.
I hope you find wellness
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lucyvanpelt
Oh you are kidding. I wish I had known that, I would have told them to shove that green card. I can't believe that I never sniffed any of this out til now. Now I am really ....ed.
Makes me want to plow that whole area slap under. Man, if my parents knew this, doo doo would have hit the fan. My daddy knew people. High up in government people, people that like to eat non profits for lunch people. They supported me in this endeavor.
I am sick to my stomach.
Idios.
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