I find it ironic how many of you decrying poor wd`s treatment ever came to my aid or anybody elses when good old dove was leading the lynch mob with his buddies...
Hmmmmm. I read all 5 of your posts and don't see where WD and his "buddies" were attacking you, so I can't really respond to that.
What I posted isn't about defending WD. It's about the mob rule mentality that seems to have crept into GS, and it's about how easy it is to stop someone like WD when he's on his high horse by ignoring him or saying. "Yeah, we know what you think" and moving past his stuff, rather than engaging in an endless arguement with him.
I've commented to WD before that I felt he was wrong or out of line. I think he knows that's how I feel. I don't need to tell him so a thousand more times.
I have to get to work. I'm sure there'll be plenty of critics to respond to when I get back here. I don't mind people disagreeing with me. Not in the least. The freedom to do that is one of the things that's always made GS better than some of tne earlier ex-way sites, IMO.
Oh, and Rocky, remind me not to defend you ever again when you swim against the tide and have everyone crawling up your butt. You're on your own, bud. ;)
Tommy S, I love you and have missed you around here!
Ah, I see that Sealed has added that she's really Rascal while I was posting. Now I get it.
I find it ironic that none of you decrying poor wd`s treatment ever came to my aid or anybody elses when good old dove was leading the lynch mob with his buddies...Hell a few of you jumped right on the band wagon with a few well placed kicks of your own when he had folks down.
Rascal, as one who has defended the right of WD to stay here, I am a little hurt by that assessment. I have come to your defense, as well as the defense of others when WD and some of the others have posted personal attacks. Granted, it has been a while, but then I had been away from this place for quite a while too. Moreover, I am fairly certain I have never kicked you or anyone else when they were down. In fact, it is because I consider you my friend that if I disagree with something you've said I often keep my mouth shut or if I think I have something to say that will be benficial, I PM you.
Even in this thread, where I have posted my opinion that WhiteDove should stay, this is the first time I have responded directly to one of your posts. Moreover, I have stated over and over again my agreement that WhiteDove and others need to temper their posts with more wisdom regarding personal accounts AND when Lucy went after Dot and ExC I spoke up loud and clear!!
Lkewise, I have never seen Linda "kick" anyone. Please don't lump everyone into on category.
I understand you are angry and you have a right to be. But please, consider where some of that anger is landing.
It would seem that ones level of outrage is directly determined by how much you dislike the view point of the poster under attack
I haven`t seen anything here that comes close to what he and his buddies did when ganging up and smacking down posters.
Well, I can't argue with you there, because I have by no means read all of White Dove or "his buddies" posts. Then again, I haven'[t ready all of any one person's posts. Either way, I agree with Linda that this thread does have something of a lynch mob feeling to it and certainly some of the posts from the "ban them" side of things have, IMO, crossed over into personal attacks. If we are going to say WD isn't allowed to personally attack anyone - how are we any better if we do the same?
He called us all KINDS of names, liars, exaggerators, whiners and complainers....denied the teachings that were used to facilitate the evil....accused us of horrible things...gleefully sided with any who were willing to smack down a poster he didn`t like when they pronounced us insane or a danger to ourselves and our children....He trolled the forums constantly with no other purpose than to discredit particular posters.....sometimes posting nothing to do with the topic at hand but simply to jeer and insult\....hi fiving his buddies for doing the same. He was a viscious bully.
But hey...I guess this isn`t such a big deal because you really didn`t like thr posters he targeted anyway..right??
Oh come one!!! Don't like them???? I count you as friend, I've never even met WD. I count ExC as my sister soul mate and have told her so on many occassions - because she so often has the courage to say things that I cannot. Dot and I have had our disagreements, no doubt, but I like her and care about her just the same and never expected any friend to have the exact same opinions as I have.
Baaah the hypocracy is glaring.
The rules have tightened to the point now where there are only a couple left that bother to try to find loop holes to continue their relentless campaign and harassment.....Now that he isn`t allowed to stalk, to bait, to insult, to deride and attempt to discredit...he has found yet another way to disrupt within the parameter of the rules ...I guess that people, the majority of the forums have had enough of this deliberate and disruptive behavior.
Well, in all honesty - as far as I have been able to tell in re-reading the two threads about Kristen's interview - WD did not take the first shots. His name was brought into those threads before he ever even posted on them. His name was left in those threads even after his posts were deleted. So, I think this problems comes from both sides of the fence and if anything, "your side" is given a lot more leniency than his is.
It just really sucks and to me completely negates ones claims of neutrality or fairness when you would come to the defense of a guy that has been so hurtful.... after all of these years of ignoring his campaign to discredit and surpress any poster who`s experience that doesn`t paint twi in a positive light.
I don't think anyone has been defending WD, per se, just his right to post. Most everyone who has sided with his right to post has agreed that his "attacks" on personal accounts are poorly timed, poorly executed, and lacking in compassion.
Edited to add: This is rascal (if you couldn`t tell already :) btw.
Linzee, I was wondering about "sealed" in the same way until at the bottom of the post it said "this is rascal"...
And as I hope I related above, I think that folks don't want to take the chance that WD will stifle someone, scare them away, with his tactic of 'if you don't provide proof, then it didn't happen'... at least that's where I'm coming from. I want everyone to be able to relate their experiences, but when it comes to abuse (IMO) there's really no place for that type of stifle-ing response. I would think it would tend to shut the person down and keep them in their place of torment... perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think so...
As for the "mob rule mentality"... I guess you could call it that if you wish. I choose to think that it's more "we're not gonna take it anymore" and there just happens to be a lot of folks who feel that way... but I don't know if the numbers qualify as a mob. I think everyone who has posted on this thread has made the same statements/pleas to WD directly... personally I'm just tired of it and, as I said, I just ignore it... but can someone who is "new" and relating a heart rending experience "just ignore him" and then continue with their healing??? I don't want to take the chance.
And most have said they have no problem with WD except that aspect of him... if he'd change or stop that aspect folks would be OK with him... I think... but if he doesn't... well then..
You are right Abby, I had already gone back and changed *all* to *many*.... but apparently we had been posting at the same time. You were not the target of my post, I wasn`t even thinking of you when I wrote it.
I DO count you as a friend and have always respected your ability to post disagreement without being insulting.
I don`t want anybody booted either...I DO however want the freedom to post without harassment or my veracity being called into question. As noble as your ideals are in defense of this guy...his deliberate non stop campaign to limit others participation and sharing here in spite of many polite requests to cease and desist have made it necessary to word things a bit stronger. What can you do with a bully that refuses to stop?
No doubt he is relishing his martyrdom, dismissing his ugly behavior and need to examine himself and his postings by beating his chest and crying harassment and discrimination...and then he has people come to his defense and scold those whom are taking him to task.
Oh and as far as *my side* being given more leniency?? Now that I WILL call that a load of crap ...as much as I like you abby...you have NO idea how many times that I have been asked to voluntarily remove posts, been moderated, had my posts have been deleted...or that I was actually suspended from these boards for a MONTH!
With all do respect, I think that you are posting from an *ideals* standpoint* while not really understanding the dynamics of doves orchestrated campaign to bully, discredit and drive people from these boards.
I dunno. Maybe he just gets a kick out of INCITING a mob. Perhaps similar to walking into a bar inhabited by hordes of muscle-bound bikers, and shouting at the top of one's lungs, "you're all a bunch of lilly livered cowards, nothing you say is true..you should paint all your bikes yellow.."
and then relying on the bouncers to save his miserable hide..
I think people have been rather kind here.
I think some people insist upon bringing out man's worse nature. It's destructive testing. Push the right buttons long enough, gouge enough, get a negative reaction, and say "see, I was right. You're no better than *them*.."
but no, they won't say it. They let someone else who hasn't followed the nonsense post it: "looks like you've come full circle.. now you're marking and avoiding the poor fella.. JUST LIKE DA WAY.."
I don`t want anybody booted either...I DO however want the freedom to post without harassment or my veracity being called into question. As noble as your ideals are in defense of this guy...his deliberate non stop campaign to limit others participation and sharing here in spite of many polite requests to cease and desist have made it necessary to word things a bit stronger. What can you do with a bully that refuses to stop?
I appreciate you clarifying your position in this regard and I agree, you should have a right to post without being harassed or called into question when you are speaking of your own personal experiences.
No doubt he is relishing his martyrdom, dismissing his ugly behavior and need to examine himself and his postings by beating his chest and crying harassment and discrimination...and then he has people come to his defense and scold those whom are taking him to task.
I guess I don't want to speculate too much on what is going through his mind. It also occured to me that the Dylan job could have been a way for him to make as gracefull an exit as he knew how to do, because the pressure of all of this was too much. But again, I would have no way of knowing his mind in either case. I am idealistic and I do prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. I prefer to refute what they have said and not who they are in their hearts, because that I just don't know.
Oh and as far as *my side* being given more leniency?? Now that I WILL call that a load of crap ...as much as I like you abby...you have NO idea how many times that I have been asked to voluntarily remove posts, been moderated, had my posts have been deleted...or that I was actually suspended from these boards for a MONTH!
Again, I can't argue with your point here. It is simply something I don't know that much about. I was speaking more specifically to what I saw in the two threads regarding Kristen's interview.
With all do respect, I think that you are posting from an *ideals* standpoint* while not really understanding the dynamics of doves orchestrated campaign to bully, discredit and drive people from these boards.
I forget when I post on spouses computer. It comes up as *sealed* so then I have to go edit my post.
Tom, right on. I don`t want anyone banned. It hurts....
If one can successfully make people believe that one is being persecuted because of ideals...one negates the need to accept responsibility for their behavior, for the harm that they are doing, and can continue to behave outragiously.
Since, his stalking and his name calling and his sneaky insinuations...one by one have been disallowed by the moderators....Dove, has successfully pulled the *persecution* card and rallied folks to his cause. I don`t think that is working any more either.
And as I hope I related above, I think that folks don't want to take the chance that WD will stifle someone, scare them away, with his tactic of 'if you don't provide proof, then it didn't happen'... at least that's where I'm coming from. I want everyone to be able to relate their experiences, but when it comes to abuse (IMO) there's really no place for that type of stifle-ing response. I would think it would tend to shut the person down and keep them in their place of torment... perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think so...
Admittedly, I haven't been polling years of posters and ex-posters. I am aware at least SOME posters leave
because of the squabbling-which usually centers around this SPECIFIC ISSUE, unless it's in the Political forum
which I don't visit.
I'm under the impression that a number of posters held off on posting, or withdrew, when under fire from the
"it didn't happen until you provide proof."
The staff would know better than me about that.
As for the "mob rule mentality"... I guess you could call it that if you wish. I choose to think that it's more "we're not gonna take it anymore" and there just happens to be a lot of folks who feel that way... but I don't know if the numbers qualify as a mob. I think everyone who has posted on this thread has made the same statements/pleas to WD directly... personally I'm just tired of it and, as I said, I just ignore it... but can someone who is "new" and relating a heart rending experience "just ignore him" and then continue with their healing??? I don't want to take the chance.
And most have said they have no problem with WD except that aspect of him... if he'd change or stop that aspect folks would be OK with him... I think... but if he doesn't... well then..
When a bunch of people all get fed up about something, I suppose that can be labelled a "mob rule mentality."
Groucho's angry, and one other poster's feeling defensive. Other than that, exactly how many of us are being
irrational or shouting down the opposing viewpoint?
Do I count as part of this "mob" because I agree that things have gone too far?
It looks to me like some new posters arrive hurting, and some CAN'T be thick-skinned.
It looks to me like WD has decided he's not going to self-moderate, and stop being hurtful when people tell their
stories. (He's determined to be ignorant that he's doing this, and that he can make his points known WITHOUT
hurting people.)
So, we're at an impasse.
We can choose the new posters, or we can choose WD,
or we can refuse to choose either, which becomes a choice for WD.
I don't see any other results as likely, given the situations.
Thank you for understanding. I wanted to edit my post about a *load of crap* but got booted from spouses computer.
What I SHOULD have said....and wish I HAD said...was that you might be mistaken in the perception that *my side* getting leniency...I apreciate you not taking offense.
Awww (((Rascal)))) I wasn't offended by the "load of crap" comment - I knew what you were trying to say.
Lucky for you though, that I had my "big girl" pants on
(((Abby)))
Thank you for understanding. I wanted to edit my post about a *load of crap* but got booted from spouses computer.
What I SHOULD have said....and wish I HAD said...was that you might be mistaken in the perception that *my side* getting leniency...I apreciate you not taking offense.
So much is being missed and not posted because of this.
I don't think Groucho's intent was for this to be a wd bash party either.
But focusing more on the effect of said abuse of others in a way that has allowed it to go this long and effectively stop the telling of the other side, sides, top, bottom-whatever.
I can't say what I want to, cause I would get edited and have.
Because of the choice of words.
But if I was face to face with someone treating another in the fashion being discussed.
That someone would have a problem to face.
And if the MOB is right then more power to them.
I recall many MOBS being right, only to be gunned down or otherwise silenced.
I want to add that maybe the reason that the perception that *my side* seems to be dealt with leniently is because when pm`d to remove an offensive post, I DO. No fuss, no argument......but because that isn`t dragged into the forums... I don`t whine about being supressed......it appears that some folks get preferential treatment.
When moderated or suspended, the only way the rest of the board knows is if the one in *time out* tells someone :)
Maybe because we don`t .... and moan over mistreatment, or drag it into the public forums....but instead change the offending behavior when the moderators or paw asks us to .... it gives the illusion that one side never gets persecuted for particular view points.
It has been my experience that pawtucket and the moderators attempt to be scrupulously fair, all we have to do is abide by the rules. To indicate that Dove and his pals haven`t been given more than fair treatment with ample opportuntiy and given the benefit of the doubt time and again is to cast aspersions on Paw and the moderators in my opinion.
I find it ironic that the ones decrying this thread and labeling the posters here who have a strong opinion about it and WD are the ones who were not a part of the "losing the way" thread and only read it after WD's posts were deleted. Â You do have the right to voice your opinion here, but you really didn't see and read what happened on that thread.
Maybe if you had been witness to what WD posted you might have changed your opinion.  What WD did was the difference between heckling at a kids birthday party vs heckling at a funeral, it was inappropriate, callous, and harrassing.  He disrupted the whole thread and silenced any posters who were expressing the opposing viewpoint.
If a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, then does it make a sound?  WD's tree fell, we heard it, we don't want any more trees falling here.Â
The "ignore" button does wonders.. providing the rest of the community doesn't hit the "quote" button should they decide to respond..
I haven't seen a single quote of Oldies or WD that proves to be REALLY relevant or even worth reading.
WD turned down some of my first hand testimony here, just ONCE.. I'm done with him..
With all due respect my furry rodent friend... I know we have the ignore button and I'm more than happy with that solution for 'seasoned' posters. But I don't think it really is an option to a "newbie"... the horses are pretty much out of the barn by then aren't they? ...damage already done? ...mission accomplished?
And I think that is the same case regarding moderators keeping track of what's going on... damage already done... and why should they have to constantly monitor where or how someone is posting? When that happens isn't that a case for suspension? Like I said, he just needs to drop that aspect of his "online persona" and I'd have no problem with it... conversely, if there's anything that I did that upset a bunch of folks I'd sure take a look at changing it or if I didn't want to change, I'd leave (and take my sno-cones with me!).. but this is the only board that openly allows illegal use of ellipses...
I dunno.. maybe a list of popularly voted "toxic posters" on the top of the forums might help..
at this point, I don't think there's any good solution.. ban him, "we" are "bad"..
let him stay, chase off people who otherwise may tell their story.. "we" are "bad"..
option three.
Use pixie dust. No, I'm not kidding.
"well, bless your wonderful little ole heart. Of course you disagree with all this. That's ok." *licks lips*.. "pucker up sweetie, let me give you a big old kiss.." *Muwwwwaaah".
I find it ironic that the ones decrying this thread and labeling the posters here who have a strong opinion about it and WD are the ones who were not a part of the "losing the way" thread and only read it after WD's posts were deleted. Â You do have the right to voice your opinion here, but you really didn't see and read what happened on that thread.
Maybe if you had been witness to what WD posted you might have changed your opinion.  What WD did was the difference between heckling at a kids birthday party vs heckling at a funeral, it was inappropriate, callous, and harrassing.  He disrupted the whole thread and silenced any posters who were expressing the opposing viewpoint.
If a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, then does it make a sound?  WD's tree fell, we heard it, we don't want any more trees falling here.Â
Am I wrong in my perception that WD did not post on those threads until after someone else brought his name into the thread?
I am not condoning bad behavior on his part, I am simply pointing out that with some posters, this is a two way thing.
BTW, I suspect of Paw and the moderators had a "strong opinion" about banning WhiteDove, he would have been banned by now. I am assuming at least one of them saw exactly what went on in those threads, and opted to delete the posts, rather than ban him.
I am willing to give the old curmudgeon another chance, it is obviously Paw's will too, since WD is still here, but I am not willing to let him play in the fields of GS by harrassing viewpoints he doesn't like and playing us all for fools. Â Banning is the end point for any troll, I didn't even mention banning in the last post, I wonder why you put it in your rebuttal to me?
And NO, Groucho simply mentioned "wierewille apologists" and WD started his hissy fit rant over the use of the word apologist and wierewille used in conjuction of eachother, an inane argumentitive ploy, pure, raw, flamebaiting.
I am willing to give the old curmudgeon another chance, it is obviously Paw's will too, since WD is still here, but I am not willing to let him play in the fields of GS by harrassing viewpoints he doesn't like and playing us all for fools. Â Banning is the end point for any troll, I didn't even mention banning in the last post, I wonder why you put it in your rebuttal to me?
I brought banning up because in your earlier post you said," "Maybe if you had been witness to what WD posted you might have changed your opinion. What WD did was the difference between heckling at a kids birthday party vs heckling at a funeral, it was inappropriate, callous, and harrassing. He disrupted the whole thread and silenced any posters who were expressing the opposing viewpoint."
I can't see what else you would want me to change my opinion on, beyond the banning, because I have agreed that WD's posts have been inappropriate and lacking in compassion and I'm fairly certain THAT is NOT what you wanted me to change my opinion on.
And NO, Groucho simply mentioned "wierewille apologists" and WD started his hissy fit rant over the use of the word apologist and wierewille used in conjuction of eachother, an inane argumentitive ploy, pure, raw, flamebaiting.
Well here is how the threads read in their current condition: First thread for Kristen's first interview, there was quite a bit of back and forth between Oldiesman and others, but White Dove was not posting on the thread. Then, on page 5 Thomas Loy Bumgardner brought up WD, specifically named WD, in two separate posts.
On the second thread for the second interview, you are correct, WD was not specifically mentioned prior to posting there. BUT - both Groucho and DMiller posed questions regarding and/or to the "apologists." WD would have to be pretty stupid not to know he has been categorically lumped into that group, so he responded.
Now, I happen to agree with Dooj, in that if you don't want to be classified as an "apologist" it would HELP (though certainly not solve) if you didn't respond to anything addressed to an "apologist." I also would say his return fire was inappropriate in that thread on that topic.
On the otherhand, if you want WD to refrain from posting on a thread that he has not previously posted on, then it might also HELP (though certainly not solve) things, if you refrained from mentioning him or the "apologists."
So again, I guess I still think that the problem comes from both sides of the fence and cannot simply be completely blamed on WD.
Oh, and Rocky, remind me not to defend you ever again when you swim against the tide and have everyone crawling up your butt. You're on your own, bud. ;)
Linda - I submit to you that indeed Rocky can raise hell and go against the tide - however I think there is a fundamental difference between Rocky and some other folks here. Rocky and Rhino go at it weekly on pols and tacks - but there seems to be a tacit agreement to disagree. I see no difference between the two of them or any other heated political debate - we see it daily in the news.
Rocky however - to my knowledge - does not use the bait and switch tactics that I have come to see all too often here. He states, Rhino states, the fight goes on - and it stays there - in fact some of us have come to affectionately call it the Rocky and Rhino show.
In my mind the topic of this thread is far more serious at a personal level (not a national level); and therein I make the distinction. All of us are used to the campaigners, the media pundits, etc - but the topic of abuse...
Never mind - Actually you can logically shut m argument down - I just also - on occasion have personal views about TWI vs. nat politics
Oh, and Rocky, remind me not to defend you ever again when you swim against the tide and have everyone crawling up your butt. You're on your own, bud.
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geisha779
Hi, Revictimizing the victims of abuse is itself abusive. It speaks volumes about the one doing it. What they still adhere to shapes their perspective and ability to inflict cruelty on those so horr
Linda Z
Sealed said:
Hmmmmm. I read all 5 of your posts and don't see where WD and his "buddies" were attacking you, so I can't really respond to that.
What I posted isn't about defending WD. It's about the mob rule mentality that seems to have crept into GS, and it's about how easy it is to stop someone like WD when he's on his high horse by ignoring him or saying. "Yeah, we know what you think" and moving past his stuff, rather than engaging in an endless arguement with him.
I've commented to WD before that I felt he was wrong or out of line. I think he knows that's how I feel. I don't need to tell him so a thousand more times.
I have to get to work. I'm sure there'll be plenty of critics to respond to when I get back here. I don't mind people disagreeing with me. Not in the least. The freedom to do that is one of the things that's always made GS better than some of tne earlier ex-way sites, IMO.
Oh, and Rocky, remind me not to defend you ever again when you swim against the tide and have everyone crawling up your butt. You're on your own, bud. ;)
Tommy S, I love you and have missed you around here!
Ah, I see that Sealed has added that she's really Rascal while I was posting. Now I get it.
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Abigail
:(
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Tom Strange
Linzee, I was wondering about "sealed" in the same way until at the bottom of the post it said "this is rascal"...
And as I hope I related above, I think that folks don't want to take the chance that WD will stifle someone, scare them away, with his tactic of 'if you don't provide proof, then it didn't happen'... at least that's where I'm coming from. I want everyone to be able to relate their experiences, but when it comes to abuse (IMO) there's really no place for that type of stifle-ing response. I would think it would tend to shut the person down and keep them in their place of torment... perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think so...
As for the "mob rule mentality"... I guess you could call it that if you wish. I choose to think that it's more "we're not gonna take it anymore" and there just happens to be a lot of folks who feel that way... but I don't know if the numbers qualify as a mob. I think everyone who has posted on this thread has made the same statements/pleas to WD directly... personally I'm just tired of it and, as I said, I just ignore it... but can someone who is "new" and relating a heart rending experience "just ignore him" and then continue with their healing??? I don't want to take the chance.
And most have said they have no problem with WD except that aspect of him... if he'd change or stop that aspect folks would be OK with him... I think... but if he doesn't... well then..
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waysider
Polly wanna cracker!!
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Tom Strange
Does anyone really name their bird "Polly"??? ...just wondering
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sealed
You are right Abby, I had already gone back and changed *all* to *many*.... but apparently we had been posting at the same time. You were not the target of my post, I wasn`t even thinking of you when I wrote it.
I DO count you as a friend and have always respected your ability to post disagreement without being insulting.
I don`t want anybody booted either...I DO however want the freedom to post without harassment or my veracity being called into question. As noble as your ideals are in defense of this guy...his deliberate non stop campaign to limit others participation and sharing here in spite of many polite requests to cease and desist have made it necessary to word things a bit stronger. What can you do with a bully that refuses to stop?
No doubt he is relishing his martyrdom, dismissing his ugly behavior and need to examine himself and his postings by beating his chest and crying harassment and discrimination...and then he has people come to his defense and scold those whom are taking him to task.
Oh and as far as *my side* being given more leniency?? Now that I WILL call that a load of crap ...as much as I like you abby...you have NO idea how many times that I have been asked to voluntarily remove posts, been moderated, had my posts have been deleted...or that I was actually suspended from these boards for a MONTH!
With all do respect, I think that you are posting from an *ideals* standpoint* while not really understanding the dynamics of doves orchestrated campaign to bully, discredit and drive people from these boards.
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Ham
I dunno. Maybe he just gets a kick out of INCITING a mob. Perhaps similar to walking into a bar inhabited by hordes of muscle-bound bikers, and shouting at the top of one's lungs, "you're all a bunch of lilly livered cowards, nothing you say is true..you should paint all your bikes yellow.."
and then relying on the bouncers to save his miserable hide..
I think people have been rather kind here.
I think some people insist upon bringing out man's worse nature. It's destructive testing. Push the right buttons long enough, gouge enough, get a negative reaction, and say "see, I was right. You're no better than *them*.."
but no, they won't say it. They let someone else who hasn't followed the nonsense post it: "looks like you've come full circle.. now you're marking and avoiding the poor fella.. JUST LIKE DA WAY.."
he's probably laughing his a** off..
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Abigail
Thanks, Rascal. :) more below:
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sealed
I forget when I post on spouses computer. It comes up as *sealed* so then I have to go edit my post.
Tom, right on. I don`t want anyone banned. It hurts....
If one can successfully make people believe that one is being persecuted because of ideals...one negates the need to accept responsibility for their behavior, for the harm that they are doing, and can continue to behave outragiously.
Since, his stalking and his name calling and his sneaky insinuations...one by one have been disallowed by the moderators....Dove, has successfully pulled the *persecution* card and rallied folks to his cause. I don`t think that is working any more either.
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WordWolf
Admittedly, I haven't been polling years of posters and ex-posters. I am aware at least SOME posters leave
because of the squabbling-which usually centers around this SPECIFIC ISSUE, unless it's in the Political forum
which I don't visit.
I'm under the impression that a number of posters held off on posting, or withdrew, when under fire from the
"it didn't happen until you provide proof."
The staff would know better than me about that.
When a bunch of people all get fed up about something, I suppose that can be labelled a "mob rule mentality."
Groucho's angry, and one other poster's feeling defensive. Other than that, exactly how many of us are being
irrational or shouting down the opposing viewpoint?
Do I count as part of this "mob" because I agree that things have gone too far?
It looks to me like some new posters arrive hurting, and some CAN'T be thick-skinned.
It looks to me like WD has decided he's not going to self-moderate, and stop being hurtful when people tell their
stories. (He's determined to be ignorant that he's doing this, and that he can make his points known WITHOUT
hurting people.)
So, we're at an impasse.
We can choose the new posters, or we can choose WD,
or we can refuse to choose either, which becomes a choice for WD.
I don't see any other results as likely, given the situations.
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rascal
(((Abby)))
Thank you for understanding. I wanted to edit my post about a *load of crap* but got booted from spouses computer.
What I SHOULD have said....and wish I HAD said...was that you might be mistaken in the perception that *my side* getting leniency...I apreciate you not taking offense.
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Abigail
Awww (((Rascal)))) I wasn't offended by the "load of crap" comment - I knew what you were trying to say.
Lucky for you though, that I had my "big girl" pants on
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cman
Yeah the points have been made.
That's why i suggest to move on.
So much is being missed and not posted because of this.
I don't think Groucho's intent was for this to be a wd bash party either.
But focusing more on the effect of said abuse of others in a way that has allowed it to go this long and effectively stop the telling of the other side, sides, top, bottom-whatever.
I can't say what I want to, cause I would get edited and have.
Because of the choice of words.
But if I was face to face with someone treating another in the fashion being discussed.
That someone would have a problem to face.
And if the MOB is right then more power to them.
I recall many MOBS being right, only to be gunned down or otherwise silenced.
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Ham
The "ignore" button does wonders.. providing the rest of the community doesn't hit the "quote" button should they decide to respond..
I haven't seen a single quote of Oldies or WD that proves to be REALLY relevant or even worth reading.
WD turned down some of my first hand testimony here, just ONCE.. I'm done with him..
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rascal
I want to add that maybe the reason that the perception that *my side* seems to be dealt with leniently is because when pm`d to remove an offensive post, I DO. No fuss, no argument......but because that isn`t dragged into the forums... I don`t whine about being supressed......it appears that some folks get preferential treatment.
When moderated or suspended, the only way the rest of the board knows is if the one in *time out* tells someone :)
Maybe because we don`t .... and moan over mistreatment, or drag it into the public forums....but instead change the offending behavior when the moderators or paw asks us to .... it gives the illusion that one side never gets persecuted for particular view points.
It has been my experience that pawtucket and the moderators attempt to be scrupulously fair, all we have to do is abide by the rules. To indicate that Dove and his pals haven`t been given more than fair treatment with ample opportuntiy and given the benefit of the doubt time and again is to cast aspersions on Paw and the moderators in my opinion.
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now I see
I find it ironic that the ones decrying this thread and labeling the posters here who have a strong opinion about it and WD are the ones who were not a part of the "losing the way" thread and only read it after WD's posts were deleted. Â You do have the right to voice your opinion here, but you really didn't see and read what happened on that thread.
Maybe if you had been witness to what WD posted you might have changed your opinion.  What WD did was the difference between heckling at a kids birthday party vs heckling at a funeral, it was inappropriate, callous, and harrassing.  He disrupted the whole thread and silenced any posters who were expressing the opposing viewpoint.
If a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, then does it make a sound?  WD's tree fell, we heard it, we don't want any more trees falling here.Â
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Tom Strange
With all due respect my furry rodent friend... I know we have the ignore button and I'm more than happy with that solution for 'seasoned' posters. But I don't think it really is an option to a "newbie"... the horses are pretty much out of the barn by then aren't they? ...damage already done? ...mission accomplished?
And I think that is the same case regarding moderators keeping track of what's going on... damage already done... and why should they have to constantly monitor where or how someone is posting? When that happens isn't that a case for suspension? Like I said, he just needs to drop that aspect of his "online persona" and I'd have no problem with it... conversely, if there's anything that I did that upset a bunch of folks I'd sure take a look at changing it or if I didn't want to change, I'd leave (and take my sno-cones with me!).. but this is the only board that openly allows illegal use of ellipses...
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Ham
I dunno.. maybe a list of popularly voted "toxic posters" on the top of the forums might help..
at this point, I don't think there's any good solution.. ban him, "we" are "bad"..
let him stay, chase off people who otherwise may tell their story.. "we" are "bad"..
option three.
Use pixie dust. No, I'm not kidding.
"well, bless your wonderful little ole heart. Of course you disagree with all this. That's ok." *licks lips*.. "pucker up sweetie, let me give you a big old kiss.." *Muwwwwaaah".
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Abigail
Am I wrong in my perception that WD did not post on those threads until after someone else brought his name into the thread?
I am not condoning bad behavior on his part, I am simply pointing out that with some posters, this is a two way thing.
BTW, I suspect of Paw and the moderators had a "strong opinion" about banning WhiteDove, he would have been banned by now. I am assuming at least one of them saw exactly what went on in those threads, and opted to delete the posts, rather than ban him.
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now I see
I am willing to give the old curmudgeon another chance, it is obviously Paw's will too, since WD is still here, but I am not willing to let him play in the fields of GS by harrassing viewpoints he doesn't like and playing us all for fools. Â Banning is the end point for any troll, I didn't even mention banning in the last post, I wonder why you put it in your rebuttal to me?
And NO, Groucho simply mentioned "wierewille apologists" and WD started his hissy fit rant over the use of the word apologist and wierewille used in conjuction of eachother, an inane argumentitive ploy, pure, raw, flamebaiting.
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Abigail
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cman
well shoot
at this point i vote to close this thread
good stuff on it though
sheesh.......
what a mess
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Rocky
What did I do?
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RumRunner
Linda - I submit to you that indeed Rocky can raise hell and go against the tide - however I think there is a fundamental difference between Rocky and some other folks here. Rocky and Rhino go at it weekly on pols and tacks - but there seems to be a tacit agreement to disagree. I see no difference between the two of them or any other heated political debate - we see it daily in the news.
Rocky however - to my knowledge - does not use the bait and switch tactics that I have come to see all too often here. He states, Rhino states, the fight goes on - and it stays there - in fact some of us have come to affectionately call it the Rocky and Rhino show.
In my mind the topic of this thread is far more serious at a personal level (not a national level); and therein I make the distinction. All of us are used to the campaigners, the media pundits, etc - but the topic of abuse...
Never mind - Actually you can logically shut m argument down - I just also - on occasion have personal views about TWI vs. nat politics
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