What's the point of the Doctrinal Forum anymore?

[year2027]

God first

Beloved Sunesis

God loves you my dear friend

glad you like my points maybe Paw can do that

yes I do remember when we got into the discussion of Nephilim, DNA, etc.

yes Maybe we all just need to agree to disagree and go from there.

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[cman]

Doctrine as we were taught in the way was something that does not change. And contained in books for the most part.

I don't believe this to be true at all.

To me it's so far from it that I can't openly discuss it here because of how the word doctrine was drilled into the minds of those who were in the way int.

So when I post in this section it isn't the way's idea of doctrine.

[geisha779]

Doctrine as we were taught in the way was something that does not change. And contained in books for the most part.

I don't believe this to be true at all.

To me it's so far from it that I can't openly discuss it here because of how the word doctrine was drilled into the minds of those who were in the way int.

So when I post in this section it isn't the way's idea of doctrine.

Hi Cman

I love this post. It is thoughtful and honest. Can I talk with you a moment? Doctrine doesn't change, but you know what does? Our understanding of and the way we practice our faith. To have a sketchy at best, doctrine drilled into you, and then have someone-let's say, standing over you, holding you accountable for each word, is ridiculous, and abusive.

Honestly, that is just insane. God expects us to use our reason and mind as well as our heart of love that He gives us. We are dust made creatures--fallible-foolish, and full of self. We are given to wandering away from good things to seek out lesser things. It is the way we are, but we CAN consider and think.

So, your reaction to unchanging doctrine is understandable. I don't think THE WAY had a sound doctrine--a form of something else, but very unsound.

Consider, if you want, :) An unchanging love and encouragment found in a doctrine of grace that recognizes we grow and learn and wander. That is what we find in Jesus Christ.

As to the doctinal forum. It's a trip!!!

Hi Sunesis--:) :) :) :)

[Oakspear]

My sweet Roy

Wasn't that a song by George harrison? <_<

[nandon]

ya, it sucks to start a thread and have people bash you.

religion is tough to talk about because it means so much to all of us.

The greatest thing i've been learning to to really listen to what other people think and respect it ESPECIALLY when I disagree with them.

I like the doctrinal forum and I hope it stays. but CATEGORIES within the doctrinal forum would be awesome!

I learn a lot from you all.

[brideofjc]

Wasn't that a song by George harrison? <_<

Uhhmmmm.....No! Different last word there, Oak.

[Belle]

Hi Sunesis,

I'm a little late to the party but I hope you don't mind my 2 cents worth:

I can understand that sometimes you'd like to have a "Christian" discussion about a topic without the non-Christian viewpoint being part of the discussion. Perhaps, in those cases, say so or merely ignore the viewpoints that take the discussion off on a tangent that you want to avoid? Kind of like at a party how one avoids those people they don't much care for.

I have been involved with several threads where there are actually multiple discussions going on within the same thread. Two or three posters discussion one aspect of the topic, a different two or three discussing another and yet another group of posters on a whole nother topic. It can get confusing, but it does work.

There are a few posters I don't even read unless someone makes a comment on it that indicates the poster might have actually made a coherent contribution. That being said, I have learned a great deal from those posters I least expected to.

I love the doctrinal forum and, like Oakspear, I appreciate that one has to look for and work to get to these booths. I wish I had more time to spend here and there are things I have been looking into and pondering that I would love to get some perspective on. We have some superb brains down here and experts in areas that fascinate me. :)

[Sunesis]

Hi Belle, how are you? Thanks for the ideas. Sometimes I get grumpy, I think I was when I started this thread.

I would never want tell people they can't post unless they are believers or agree with me, I want all people to put their 2 cents in. I think maybe in just more agreeable ways, because believe it or not, I do learn, and have sometimes changed my mind, by what others have posted here over the years. I think some of the people who still do believe have been a bit intimidated by those who don't lately and just don't really post anymore. I guess that's my point, civility, because religious beliefs are so deeply held and personal.

[waysider]

Maybe this is off topic, maybe not.

People say the tone here (or whatever you want to call it) has changed.

I've gone back to look at older threads and definitely concur.

But there's more to the story.

People have changed, the internet has changed, internet conversational styles have changed.

I also visit a musicians site.

I have only been going there for about 2 years but they have archives that go back to 1992.

Holy Catz!

If you look at some of the posts there from 1992 and then compare them to yesterday's posts it would astound you.

Change is normal. You have to expect it. That's all I'm trying to say.

Edited July 14, 2008 by waysider

[Sunesis]

Waysider, which site? HC?

[Tom]

I believe I understand where you are coming from. Right before I was reading your 1st post on this thread, Sun - I was feeling the same way.

However, I haven't been here for quite a while until just lately, Sunesis, and I have to say that, from what I've seen, people seem to be more civil and mature in their conversations that they were when last I shared coffee here.

[Tom]

See, there, I just left without saying what I wanted to say. Was it because I was afraid? I didn't want to hurt someone? I just couldn't be bothered? It's too late? A little of all? Ah, sweet sleep people. Manana.

Tom

[Dot Matrix]

Sunesis - to your opening post

On another Forum I go to they have a section

"Christians only"

Maybe we should have a section like that.

And one for people who still favor TWI

When we want to brawl we can go to the about the way or a more open forum

I hope Geisha sticks around

[RainbowsGirl]

I think that a "Christian Only" forum is a good idea Dot and to add other separate forums for other schools of thought!

After all anyone can read any thread still. It might limit some of the senseless arguing!!!

Edited to add: I am not sure how the divisions among Christians could be handled as there are so many different denominations under Christianity??? i would hope with respect and self control!!!

Edited August 9, 2008 by RainbowsGirl

[Oakspear]

Yeah, I'll just go sit in the back of the bus

[Bramble]

The current big brawl is between the Trinitarian and non Trinitarian Christians. To eliminate that type of brawl you would need two Christian forums.

Perhaps the initial poster should just say who they want to post--Trinitarian Christian discussion ONLY.

Or you could put the known unbelievers, or Trinitarians or non Trinitarians, according to your theology, on ignore.

Or you could do by invite only pm discussion.

[geisha779]

I think part of the problem arises from the motives of one poster being wrongly discerned by another--and then a reaction to that assumption--met with utter shock by the original poster--words are put in others mouths and then it is a "Brawl"

It has happened to me more times than not. I hold a differing view--so I must mean "A" although I really said "B". It is a difficult mode of communication.

We should actually read and listen if we are going to respond.

Just my opinion. I try to really hear what someone says.

I do have a knack for taking it But it is never my intention. Oh well, too much fun to have alone! Let's Party!!

[Abigail]

Yeah, I'll just go sit in the back of the bus

<<<Waving as I join you in the back of the bus>>>

[Sushi]

Yeah, I'll just go sit in the back of the bus

I won't even get on the bus.

[Bramble]

I'd better drive myself and meet you there. I get car sick in the back of busses--so not fun.

[RainbowsGirl]

With this kind of good contagious sense of humor, the problem must be too many Buses or too few drivers! Maybe I will walk!

[Bramble]

I'll give ya a ride if you want. Just don't hitch with a stranger. My name tag will say b-r-a-m-b-l-e.

[Tom]

Bramble:

The current big brawl is between the Trinitarian and non Trinitarian Christians. To eliminate that type of brawl you would need two Christian forums.

Perhaps the initial poster should just say who they want to post--Trinitarian Christian discussion ONLY.

Dot Matrix tried that recently. It worked rather well for a while, but then it reverted to a Trinitarian/non Trinitarian dichotomy. Major drag.

geisha:

I think part of the problem arises from the motives of one poster being wrongly discerned by another--and then a reaction to that assumption--met with utter shock by the original poster--words are put in others mouths and then it is a "Brawl"

Tom: I may be projecting here, so correct me if I'm wrong geisha - I definitely do not want to put words in your mouth - but I'm going to translate what you just said means to me. I'm recently arrived, so maybe there are other instances that shock that I'm not aware of. But here goes an attempt to go beyond the generalities without any intention to hurt.

geisha - what geisha says, what Tom hears - brackets are my insertions into geisha's words - hey, communication sucks under the best of circumstances - let's do our best to make this happen without malice:

I think part of the problem arises from the motives of one poster [geisha]being wrongly discerned by another [Tom - could be others, like I said, I've recently jumped in here - again] --and then a reaction to that assumption--met with utter shock by the original poster [geisha]--words are put in others mouths [geisha's – which is why I’m presenting my impressions here. Please tell me if I’m wrong & putting words into your mouth geisha] and then it is a "Brawl"

.

If those assumptions on my part are wrong, then I'm not even in the neighborhood of the ball park, never mind participating meaningfully in the game. If I’m that off, forget the bus, the taxi, hitchhiking. I’ll sit at the side of the road, & wait for God to provide a destination, a ride, a place, & a job. Or I’ll refuse to participate anymore in the game.

Geisha, I never questioned your motives. It never entered into my mind to do so. Well, yeah, it does seem like you’re out to prove the Trinity regardless of the collateral damage to people sometimes, but I’m sure you have your own perspective about that, & you’re not out to hurt people.

So, what, the road to hell is paved with good intentions – or so the saying goes. I don’t believe that either, but that doesn’t mean I question your motives.

Bramble says, “Perhaps the initial poster should just say who they want to post--Trinitarian Christian discussion ONLY.”

I know Bramble, it was only an example, but why isn’t the example, non Trinitarian discussion only?

I would really like to get involved in a discussion of who Jesus Christ is – with Christians. So, in the wake of the recent discussions, I show up at the “Trinity” thread, just to see what people are talking about Jesus Christ – maybe there’s a glimmer of light in the window for me to chance a knock on the door. Sunesis (whom I respect a lot in particular for sunesis about who Jesus Christ is – is decrying the “fact” that non–Trinitarians don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus. Dang, I believe in the divinity of Jesus, & I’m not a Trinitarian. As a matter of fact, Sunesis, I thought we discussed this 2 years ago.

Someone points out that non-Trinitarians don’t necessarily deny the divinity of Jesus. I’m encouraged. Geisha, you aver that everyone who ever lived has to either acknowledge that Jesus is Lord and God, or he is a liar and a lunatic.

Geisha: “It has happened to me more times than not. I hold a differing view--so I must mean "A" although I really said "B". It is a difficult mode of communication.”

Umm, you said it – all HAVE to confess either Jesus is God or a liar and a lunatic. It is in the record. I’ll produce it if you want. I’d rather not. All I really want to do is discuss who he is. But those are the only choices I’m given in this Trinity thread – by geisha.

So, I back out. After all, the thread is NOT “Who is Jesus,” but “The Trinity.”

So, where am I? Start a thread on “Who is Jesus,” and exclude Trinitarians? I’d rather hear what Sunesis has to say - & others – without people telling me that, if I don’t believe Jesus is God, then I just think that he is a “bro,” hey, mofo, what up, a liar, a lunatic. Talk about A or B! Life’s bigger & Jesus is bigger than your opinion of life.

So, I didn’t post. You know, I’d rather engage in discussion of who Jesus is, rather than discuss the Trinity as if it is the end all & be all. Am I allowed here to do that, or is that discriminatory?

I’m so pressured into being politically correct in my job. I won’t do it here.

[Abigail]

Hi Tom,

Long time no see!! Why not start your thread? I think it could be an interesting conversation. It could also be interesting to ask the question and invite non-Christians to participate as well, no?

I think a large part of the problems that occur down here come from the labelling of people. "You're not Christian, so you can't relate/don't understand/don't have valid input" or "You're not trinitarian/You are trinitarian therefore you can't relate/don't understand/don't have valid input."

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just do away with the labels altogether and really listen to what the other person is saying. Who knows, they may have something valid to say.

[geisha779]

Hi Tom,

Wow, just saw your post and in order to avoid a great big long one, I won't quote you--I will just answer you from the heart. You seem like a guy who can relate to

the heart.

First off-I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote that. I was actually thinking of Rhino-- I felt blindsided last night about the Muslim issue. I have shared this

with some people--but I would like to tell you. I am engaged with people of other faiths regularly--people I love. When Rhino implied something about terrorism

I felt blindsided. I found it very offensive, and a generalization that was based in ignorance--almost to the point of . . . . well--you get it.

I am a Christian--if I wanted to be a Muslim--I would--if I wanted to be Jewish I would--if I wanted to be a unitarian I would. If I wanted to be Pagan I would

But, I do have people I care about who ARE other things. I don't change my faith to please them--nor they theirs to please me--but we do talk--and relate and care

for each other.

As for you and our limited interaction--well, something written for me to see next time I looked--A sweet little thing plugged in by hubby to put a smile on my face

was mocked. I thought it a bit over reactive. I just stopped going to that thread after that. Have not been back. Why would I? That stung quite a bit.

If I can't point out to you my considerations---I have been in the church for years now--my perspective is different--without offending you and apparently leaving

a wake of destruction in my path--One, I am not to good at making my point, and two you must not be sold out to your faith. If that hurts your feelings--I hope

you are never called to defend Him in a more meaningful way. There are people on this planet that would kill you if you didn't renounce Him.

Seems you are politely or not so--asking me to leave so you can talk without an opposing view. . I am not stopping you from saying what you want--nor did I

address the post you are commenting on to you. I have not addressed you at all until your mocking post--then I left.--you have sought me. And seem to now be

trying to correct me.

Perhaps we can come to an understanding?

As for talking about who He is--there is NOTHING I like more--or actually do like more--I think we have all had enough in TWI about telling people who He is

not. I know I was filled to the eyeballs with it--without the slightest clue as to who He really is and how He would totally change my life. I never knew a love like this

or thought I could love someone so much as I love Him.

It would be a great honor to talk to you about Him. A true pleasure. Let's have some fun and talk about the love of our lives--Jesus Christ!

BTW--that was C.S. LEWIS I was quoting in the trinity thread, it wasn't me--I am not that smart--I just really love to read him.

Edited August 10, 2008 by geisha779