The Way, It Was

[bfh]

Recently, John Lynn wrote another letter to the grads of PFAL, and refers to it as the "sequel to my March, 1998 letter."

Following are some excerpts from "The Way, It Was - June 2008 letter by John Lynn:"

In the interest of truth, both small “t” (the facts about The Way International) and capital “T” (the Word of God it taught),

I am compelled to propose why I think The Way International was (past tense), from a certain perspective, one of the

most significant movements in the history of the Christian Church. I do so for the benefit of any graduate of

the “Power For Abundant Living” class who still wants to live for the Lord and who may have been unduly discouraged,

either by his/her own experience in The Way or by the ensuing barrage of negatives from other ex-Way saints about what was wrong with The Way.

I speak so that you can know “the rest of the story,” as opposed to all the disparaging things that have been said

about The Way through the years by the media (much of that false), other Christians (much of that false),

and disgruntled former followers (much of that true, some of it false).

My purpose is to set forth a much more redemptive view of The Way than what I have thus far read from others with “ex-Way vision.”

In some ways, this is a sequel to my March, 1988 letter in which I blew the whistle about what was then going on in TWI.

Perhaps worst of all, a golden opportunity to make known the Word of God, as it had not been known since the first century, was squandered.

The Way. It was. What was it? First and foremost, it was, from about 1955-1987, the only place I know of

where anyone could hear the amount of truth of the Word of God that we heard.

Like I, you may know of some ministries that do teach some of these truths, but I submit that until 1987

there was nowhere other than TWI to find all of them taught as accurately as they were there.

That is why The Way International stands out on the spectrum of Church history as an amazingly significant Christian movement.

As far as I can see, TWI was also about the most disparate dichotomy of good and evil in the history of Christianity.

The Way, we were. If you once sat through PFAL, you heard the Word of God taught more accurately

than the vast majority of Christians who have ever drawn breath. As a fellow PFAL grad, I identify with you,

and have an affinity for you and a desire to encourage you to take advantage of the truth you once heard,

if you are not already doing so. Along with me, you will one day stand before our precious Lord Jesus Christ,

who will reward you according to how you have lived your life as a Christian. In essence, he will ask each of us

something like this: “What did you do with what you knew?”

[all emphasis in the above quote is mine]

If you would like to read the letter in its entirety, here's the link:

http://www.christianeducational.org/monthl...TheWayItWas.htm

I'm not quite sure what to make of it yet.

So, I thought I'd just throw it out there and see what everyone else thinks.

[doojable]

I only have a few minutes, (home on a lunch break) but a cursory reading sent up some major red flags.

It sounds like he's doing damage control. This quote seemed odd to me:

In some ways, this is a sequel to my March, 1988 letter in which I blew the whistle about what was then going on in TWI.

Is the same letter that JAL penned with JS, RD and some others? If so then he's being dishonest.

[Twinky]

This does not ring with compassion or sincere apology, but rather, with same-old, same-old.

Very much like damage control. No acknowledgment of plagiarism, just that TWI pointed the way.

And this: "The Way International stands out on the spectrum of Church history as an amazingly significant Christian movement." Time will tell. How significant will it be in 100 years time? Still it seems that TWI is getting the glory - not God.

[bfh]

I only have a few minutes, (home on a lunch break) but a cursory reading sent up some major red flags.

It sounds like he's doing damage control. This quote seemed odd to me:

The whole letter seems odd to me.

Is the same letter that JAL penned with JS, RD and some others? If so then he's being dishonest.

In the 2008 letter posted on the Web there's a link to the 1998 letter to which JAL is referring and was indeed written by him.

In it he discusses the 1987 letter that was written in conjunction with RD, TR, RB, and PL:

In February of 1987, in conjunction with Ralph Dubofsky, Tom Reahard, Robert Belt and my wife Pat, I participated in writing a 37-page letter that we sent first to the Trustees. In it we confronted them with God's Word as to where they were in error, and called for a meeting of leadership to get out in the open and resolve them biblically.

Here's the link to the 1998 letter:

http://www.christianeducational.org/monthl.../misc/index.htm

This does not ring with compassion or sincere apology, but rather, with same-old, same-old.

Very much like damage control. No acknowledgment of plagiarism, just that TWI pointed the way.

And this: "The Way International stands out on the spectrum of Church history as an amazingly significant Christian movement." Time will tell. How significant will it be in 100 years time? Still it seems that TWI is getting the glory - not God.

I only excerpted parts of the 2008 letter and in the whole letter he does acknowledge plagiarism, along with other abuses:

Yes, there was more doctrinal error than I ever realized while I was in TWI, and there was corresponding practical error

that became more evil than most of us involved ever imagined. Yes, many precious people were terribly abused.

Yes, there was dishonesty about Scripture, there was plagiarism, and there was rampant sexual sin,

all of which contributed to many people choosing to turn away from God and His Word.

But, it's like a head nod to the abuses: I [JAL] will acknowledge the abuses, so that I can minimize them and talk about how great VPW and TWI were.

It strikes me as discordant - that's why I'm not sure what to make of it.

[excathedra]

I think I'll pass on reading the whole letter.

And WHY is he doing drugs at this point in his life? Isn't he in his 60s?

[mstar1]

I read what was posted and ...

[doojable]

Agreed mstar.

I skimmed the letters - I couldn't make myself read them in their entirety. They still read like infomercial scripts, IMHO.

"TWI was great! And NOW we have the new, the improved, the best of the best..."

"BUT WAIT! If you act NOW you'll receive not one but TWO sets of Ginsu knives - at no extra charge!"

Also this jumped out at me:

Yes, there was more doctrinal error than I ever realized while I was in TWI, and there was corresponding practical error that became more evil than most of us involved ever imagined. Yes, many precious people were terribly abused. Yes, there was dishonesty about Scripture, there was plagiarism, and there was rampant sexual sin, all of which contributed to many people choosing to turn away from God and His Word. And as I realized these things, I did speak out about them, both publicly and privately, from 1987 until about 2000, after which TWI had marginalized itself in Christendom.

Ummmmm... wasn't JAL one who practiced this error himself?

I'm sorry. I'm just not interested in this "package."

Edited July 2, 2008 by doojable

[rhino]

MONEY

... it's a drag ... keep your hand off my stash ...

it is the rooooot of aaawwwll eeevil ... so they saaaay ...

So the plagiarized stuff was the bible as we haven't had it since the first century? Good gawd ...

The business of collecting bucks from ex twi folks is still going?

I wonder if letters like that are valued in how much revenue they bring in ...

are some still longing to "make life meaningful"?

Those are great knives doojable :) ...

but it is a disgrace for me to have been in this fellowship for those knives to have been associated with this rusty old dull doctrine

Edited July 2, 2008 by rhino

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Both John's seem to imply that Bullinger had it mostly correct despite being Trinitarian. JL includes differences from TWI in a link summarizing them with their books and CD's and DVD's teaching series. Both apologize for the sexual abuse that occured but Karen's attitude is not mentioned. In a private post to him, JL said that recent British teaching videos(ALPHA, Open Home/Open Bible, Reality) and materials from the United Methodist(Beginings, Christian Believer) and Saddleback's Foundations 101 are an improvement over what has been taught but still off on the Trinity and Jesus Christ being God disguised in human flesh. He , JS, KG and others from Spirit and Truth, Christian Family, Christian Outreach, Christian Research, and other splinter groups claim it was the filmed PFAL class that forced the denominations to counter it in the late 90's and early 21st Centuary with their "spin". They like the humor and laughter and the personal touch, but still claim that the Church of England, UMC, ELCA, Willow Creek, Lakewood Baptist(Joel Osteen), Saddleback,etc. still don't get it(that is "The Truth"). So much for both John's, Kevin, Wayne, Rochelle and the others. At least they now consider us as the ignorant/separated brethern in the Body of Christ and "tolerate/love" us and no longer want us dead(just misguided like tiny toddlers).ps KG refers to Mr. Gigou, not MS. Grasser.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Thomas Loy Bumgarner

[rhino]

... and other splinter groups claim it was the filmed PFAL class that forced the denominations to counter it in the late 90's and early 21st Centuary with their "spin".

Seems they want to inject themselves into the bigger Christian dogma competition scene to create more drama for their soap opera ...

I guess for those that think that is what it is all about .. go ahead and give them more money ...

[mstar1]

"TWI was great! And NOW we have the new, the improved, the best of the best..."

"BUT WAIT! If you act NOW you'll receive not one but TWO sets of Ginsu knives - at no extra charge!"

Thanks for the laugh Dooj..

When I read this--(which is the first thing that made me gag)

I am compelled to propose why I think The Way International was (past tense), from a certain perspective, one of the

most significant movements in the history of the Christian Church.

juxtaposed against this

Yes, there was more doctrinal error than I ever realized while I was in TWI, and there was corresponding practical error that became more evil than most of us involved ever imagined. Yes, many precious people were terribly abused. Yes, there was dishonesty about Scripture, there was plagiarism, and there was rampant sexual sin, all of which contributed to many people choosing to turn away from God and His Word.

I had to wonder what planet he was from, if he was schizophrenic and off his medication ,or if like ex said He started doing some mind altering drugs...Maybe he got bit by hallucinagenic nose spiders hallucinations.

Even if someone somehow was able to stretch and distort history and reality enough to actually believe the first statement how on earth could you state the second one and still maintain the first unless you were severely imbalanced?

If its laden with doctrinal error, practical error, evil, abuse, dishonesty,palgairism and rampant sexual sin ,how can it be a significant christian movement at all, never mind one the most important in history?

Letters like that make me want to pull my hair out

Edited July 2, 2008 by mstar1

[rhino]

Wellll ... all great "movements" involve a lot of sheeet ... :)

butt good point mstar ... and nice job of juxta possession ...

there were certainly a lot of cocks crowing during those spiritual times in the (de)basement of that building at Emporia ... no wonder I didn't learn much there ... the corpse coordinators were too busy getting it on with all the willing corps trainees ...

honorable 9th corp my arssse ... can we put that to a vote?

edited to ask .. between donna and craig and john and pat ... how many corpse were screwed in the basement apartments there in that year of living in the flesh spirit? You can add Dave and Judy in uncle hairy if you want .. not sure about them ...

The audacity for this person to claim to have any kind of ministry is mind boggling ... are people still buying this tripe?

Sorry John ... but go get a real job ... go play basketball, do your comedy schtick ... anything but pretend to be a spiritual guru ... this is disgusting ...

Edited July 2, 2008 by rhino

[frank123lol]

Methinks,All these guys(cff ces ect..ad nauseum) are so full of themseves..

I knew(know)kg sg as they were in this area,being "groomed" to be the next family co-ords

His fellowship was like a tigger movie from winnie the pooh.

Last roa happened95 (what a drag that was) next @@boom everthing changes grr meaness

rob sharon m on probation,robm no longer welcome at fellowships..kand s giou33?well..

I was working so I didnot go to that fellowship,kand s raked over the coal badly by who?

Why allan lic@ then lc of michigan,of course his cronie chris gramlic@ nazi extraordinare..

End result?kand s booted,talk to them?you get bootedect.....

Fast forward a few years...I was out of twi pronounced twhy Saw kevin asked him lots of questions..

What do you think of twhy? reponse?they will do thier thing we will do ours,no bitterness,time to move on

come to our fellowships,no discension though,I say where do you come up with that?No response.

I bring this up as sort of history lesson..revere twhy Goes back to herr vic...man of god..

was the word taught? yes,But were we taught?Or were we indoctrinated?

ALot of what I believe today has been re-examined,rethought...

To go back to what js invited,would be the same as twhy cff ces ect..

[bfh]

One of the reasons I posted this letter was that it seemed to me, having read the other letters,

that the tone was different, and I was wondering if anyone else thought that also.

In this letter, JAL seemed to be waxing nostalgic about "the good old days" and

now has decided to embrace and vaunt PFAL and VPW.

Maybe it's me, or Mercury is in retrograde, or vertigo from the stock market gyrations today,

but I'm sensing some kind of movement to get back to the "pure" TWI/VPW era. First the Mississippi Farm Corps and now JAL's letter.

I also caught the same illogical thinking as mstar - You grads learned more of the Bible in PFAL than anyone else since the first century,

but there are a few minor doctrinal errors. What? A few? Minor? What?

In fact a lot of the letter made me think - What???

For me, there's a lot of dissonance in this letter.

And on a side note, perhaps JAL's motto has become - Better living through chemistry (or is it chemicals?).

[waysider]

Translation

I'm still drinking the kool-aid and and it's tastier than ever.

Won't you come join me in a sip?

[cheranne]

new and improved elephant dung! I can smell it from here,just makes me sick.

[rhino]

I'm not sure where the drug reference comes from ... is this inside info?

Chemicals can really alter a person .. or maybe help them ...

I see enough problems without claims that it is due to chemicals ... is that evident somehow that i am missing?

Anyway ... the "I am special so the world is out to get me" syndrome is pretty classic ... I'd say more but THEY are listening and THEY want to silence my special knowledge of ALL things ...

gotta go .. THEY are outside now ... please send MONEY ...

(and keep this in your lockbox)

[WhiteDove]

Sorry John ... but go get a real job

I believe he has a real job.........

Well looks like another satisfied customer.who can seperate the teaching from the teacher

[doojable]

One of the reasons I posted this letter was that it seemed to me, having read the other letters,

that the tone was different, and I was wondering if anyone else thought that also.

In this letter, JAL seemed to be waxing nostalgic about "the good old days" and

now has decided to embrace and vaunt PFAL and VPW.

Maybe it's me, or Mercury is in retrograde, or vertigo from the stock market gyrations today,

but I'm sensing some kind of movement to get back to the "pure" TWI/VPW era. First the Mississippi Farm Corps and now JAL's letter.

I also caught the same illogical thinking as mstar - You grads learned more of the Bible in PFAL than anyone else since the first century,

but there are a few minor doctrinal errors. What? A few? Minor? What?

In fact a lot of the letter made me think - What???

For me, there's a lot of dissonance in this letter.

And on a side note, perhaps JAL's motto has become - Better living through chemistry (or is it chemicals?).

I agree bfh. That's exactly what struck me.

Here's my question:

IF STFI is soooooo great, why oh why do they need to feed on the carrion of a dead cult?

If they've got this "great package" why do they need to conjure up the memory of der Victoid?

I can hear the violins starting up in the background...

*sniff, sniff* we need money... God needs YOU! Come help us grow!

PUKE

[rhino]

I believe he has a real job.........

Well looks like another satisfied customer.who can seperate the teaching from the teacher

not sure what his current job is .. I just see what he is pushing ...

he didn't separate the teaching very well when he was practicing his learned spiritual acumen in the basement as corps coordinator ... did he?

so vic taught adultery was fine .. and john , while corps cord', acted as though adultery was fine ... when exactly did he learn to separate the teaching from the teacher?

Or which teaching do you mean exactly?

John was a satisfied customer I guess .. he was satisfied with every corps woman he bedded, per VP's teaching .. is that what you mean dove?

[geisha779]

The letter of Assumptions--by St. John the divine of Indiana

This is what happens when people isolate themselves from the Christian community at large. No accountibility.

John, get out there and meet some of the Christian youth today. If you can catch them off the missions field or in-between building houses for low income people.

That is if you can catch them in-between ministering to the sick==or raising money for persecuted Brethren.

Go to a reputable Bible College and speak with any freshmen. Bet he/she could give you a run for your money.

We were never better, or smarter, or more "Spiritual" than anyone.

We were duped. Stealing Dale Carnegie, EW Bulliger, and EG Leonard does not a biblical "research" ministry make.

Hasn't this all caused enough pain and suffering?

Quit trying to lead people astray---What's the matter? TWI lite run out of personal prophecy?

Go find some widows and orphans to pick on.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

DEDICATED TO JALVIS...........A FAITHFUL SON OF HIS "FATHER-IN-THE-WORD"..............FOR HAVING COME FULL CIRCLE, AND JOINING THE RANKS OF HIS FELLOW, LOYAL, SELF-DELUDED, SELF-OBSESSED, AND SELF-RIGHTEOUS VIC APOLOGISTS!..............CONGRATULATIONS, PILGRIM!..............YOUR SEARCH HAS ENDED, RIGHT WHERE IT BEGAN!............I GUESS SELLING PERSONAL PROPHECIES IS'NT AS LUCRATIVE AS IT USED TO BE, EH?............SO, LIKE A DOG RETURNING TO ITS VOMIT, YOU'RE BACK TO SQUARE ONE!!.................................PEACE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54qhjlTNVn0...feature=related#

Edited July 2, 2008 by Don'tWorryBeHappy

[Rejoice]

Nostalgia for the "good old days??" I wonder why these guys are so reluctant to really OPEN THEIR EYES and get honest with themselves?? Do they think they will melt if they admit that it's time to pull the plug on the teaching of VPW???

We were all duped, conned, and robbed of many years, but "that which doesn't break us makes us stronger." A cult formed from a ROTTEN ROOT cannot be anything but rotten. Even if you tweak and repackage it, the foundation is still of sand.

This idea that TWI "stands out on the spectrum of Church history as an amazingly significant Christian movement" is just the opinion of one [himself] in his letter. Has anyone ever read a statement like that from someone who was outside of TWI??

I think not, but there are a multitude of statements completely opposite of that opinion. The converse statements are from the wounded, the children of the wounded, as well as counselors, psychiatrists, and pastors who helped the wounded.

VPW, LCM, HA, etc., left a legacy of abuse, mental torture, and dispair. And VPW checked out first leaving his wife and children to bear the brunt of his legacy.

[WhiteDove]

not sure what his current job is .. I just see what he is pushing ...

he didn't separate the teaching very well when he was practicing his learned spiritual acumen in the basement as corps coordinator ... did he?

so vic taught adultery was fine .. and john , while corps cord', acted as though adultery was fine ... when exactly did he learn to separate the teaching from the teacher?

Or which teaching do you mean exactly?

John was a satisfied customer I guess .. he was satisfied with every corps woman he bedded, per VP's teaching .. is that what you mean dove?

No change of point,. it was a silly possibility, given that what people told me as I have repeatedly said did not equal following like sheep. I was never one that lamented about being controlled. So the obvious answer to the question was No.

Nice attempt at switching the subject to some straw man scenario that you pulled ou of thin air. The subject was Johns letter and returning to the subject you will see that from such statements in the letter as

If you once sat through PFAL, you heard the Word of God taught more accurately than the vast majority of Christians who have ever drawn breath.

And ...... That is why The Way International stands out on the spectrum of Church history as an amazingly significant Christian movement.

One can see that indeed he like many others was able to separate the two issues of the teacher and the teaching and that despite some faults of the teacher the teaching is not made void.

[mstar1]

This is what happens when people isolate themselves from the Christian community at large. No accountibility.

John, get out there and meet some of the Christian youth today. If you can catch them off the missions field or in-between building houses for low income people.

That is if you can catch them in-between ministering to the sick==or raising money for persecuted Brethren.

Go to a reputable Bible College and speak with any freshmen. Bet he/she could give you a run for your money.

We were never better, or smarter, or more "Spiritual" than anyone.

Thank you Geisha

and also have to say I loved this from DWBH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54qhjlTNVn0...feature=related