I received "Losing The Way" from Amazon yesterday and finished reading it today. Yes, it is that good. I would highly recommend it to any person who has been in The Way or who is still in The Way. Many of us will be able to relate to the various "pressures" that went along with being part of "The Way." For instance, like trying to skip a Way meeting or fellowship because you had something important to do.
This book is entertaining, interesting, sad and healing. Although she used different names for the various peope in the book, anyone who was in the Way during the mid 1970's to the early 1980's will easily recognize many of the people. For example, corps coordinator "Roy Worthington."
Reading this book was special for me, because I personally knew Kris. At Indiana University, she was the branch coordinator and class coordinator when I sat through the PFAL class for the first time. During that year, she was responsible for many people getting to know God better. I remember being amazed at her enthusiasm and confidence concerning God and the Bible. At my first twig in the Memorial Union she taught about David (1 Samuel 17). I had one question to ask my friend, who had been relentless in trying to convince me to be part of PFAL class, "If I take this class will I be able to teach the Bible like her?"
Thanks for writing this book Kris. I am sure it will help many others.
I stayed up until the wee hours of this morning, foregoing seeing July 4th fireworks in order to finish it. It's very captivating, very sad through most of it, yet there is at least a partly happy ending ... and her life goes on.
I myself was in the Way for 23.5 years and was rather shocked and surprised to find out when I left on January 11, 1996 that our so-called "father in the Word" had those particular tendencies described so aptly in her book. While not having any of those experiences myself, I totally identified with her feeling that "Doctor would fix it" when her life was falling apart. I remember being at Gunnison in 1985 (before VPW's death) under the tyrannical rule of TJ. Almost all of the women in our room in the fancy cabin, the Gunnison, and I cried ourselves to sleep many nights because of TJ's hatefulness and the utter sense of hopelessness he wrought. One of the women had been a flight attendant on Ambassador One during her interim year and knew Craig well ... we thought when he came to visit, that she would get a chance to talk to him and he would "fix it" and straighten Tom J. out .... as it turned out, he was so emotionally distant and self-absorbed when he came to visit that nothing got done. I remember thinking, trusting, he would do "the right thing" and was so, so disappointed when he left and everything went on the same ... I felt as if God had abandoned us. I think back now, "Why didn't you leave?" of myself ... and I guess I didn't for all the same reasons Kris didn't leave her abusive husband ... "it will get better" or "I can't leave the Corps/I'd be leaving God." It is just all so hard to explain to someone who has never been there.
I say this because I still believe in the Bible, I go to a fellowship of mostly former Way folks, we are not a part of any splinter group, we HAVE taken the time to look at errors in doctrine and practice (and have found quite a few), yet I still remain thankful for what I learned from VPW -- sinner though he was in many categories so clearly outlined in many other threads. Yes, not all of it is true, much of it plagiarized, but the bottom line is that I have eternal life from the Bible (Romans 10:9) and I met a lot of wonderful people I would not have otherwise known. I say this not to be a "Wierwille apologist" or to lessen in any way the horrible abuses that Kris and others suffered at the hands of those they thought they could trust. I guess I see in my own life (as Kris did in hers) that in all of the darkest, most difficult times, GOD was always there, looking out for me (and for Kris). I am thankful she found the Light at the end of her long, dark tunnel.
This is a well-written book, worthy of being read by anyone who spent time in the Way.
"Emotionally distant" and detached.... this is exactly what I experienced from a major Limb Leader when I went for pastoral counseling. And I was working my a** off for this guy's ministry!
If a group (or a teaching) is not pastoral, it isn't Christian.
If leaders have no oversight or accountability, the group is less than Christian (and very unsafe).
If leaders have little training, or worse, training in how to sell the gospel and use people - then that group is very sick indeed.
You need not stop with the teachings of TWI; there are riches of true, biblical Christian spirituality that go way beyond TWI managed to share. To stop with TWI's body of knowledge/teaching is like stopping in first grade (IMHO). Just one example: read Thomas Merton's Seven Story Mountain or Seeds of Contemplation or Hans Kung's On Being a Christian.
My wife, Senora Cruz, finished Kris' book in 12 hours also. She was one of the first folk Kris witnessed to and so was very interested. Sr. Cruz never drank the whole cup... she only sipped the Kool Aid. Kris and I both drank the whole cup. Sheesh. She paid a greater price for her commitment. What was the difference? Luck? Gender? She's at least as smart as I am, if not smarter... and gifted as all get out. Emotional factors? Luck.
I didn't think my esteem for her could have grown any higher - but it has.
I could not put the book down! I started reading it last night and finished it today. Her description of the treacherous mind-games that plague TWI followers so resonated with me...I’m a guy – so I’m not saying I can relate to the sexual abuse nor am I saying what I experienced comes anywhere close to that…but I believe TWI was parasitic and sucked the life out of anything with a pulse!
As I read her story, I thought about a movie I watched not too long ago, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. In this classic Sci-Fi movie, pods from outer space take over the lives of people – but they are only able to do this when the person falls asleep. The person looks like you on the outside – but it’s no longer you on the inside. I think of how much of the TWI mindset is geared toward lulling to sleep our critical and creative thinking processes…we suppress our real personalities, forget our dreams, ignore feelings, and squelch personal preferences.
Also, as I read the book I thought of three categories of people: predators, facilitators, and victims. I think there were a lot of facilitators in TWI. A facilitator is one who helps bring about an outcome by providing indirect or unobtrusive assistance. I was neither a predator nor a victim. But in lending my support [time, energy, finances, etc.] to this cult, I unknowingly perpetuated the predatory system. I’m guilty of being a facilitator.
There’s some kind of sick twist in Kris hearing about the Illuminati/one-world-government-conspiracy stuff [Advanced Class material] and the conspiracy that unfolds with vp’s lock box…a conspiracy of silence to cloak his sexual predations.
Thanks Kris, for having the courage, strength, love, humility, honesty, and wisdom to write this book – and think your recommendation of exit counselors is a big deal!
Okay, dumb question of the day...will the book be on anyone's shelves at all, or is it one (like Karl's I think, unless it was well hidden) you can only get by ordering?
Okay, dumb question of the day...will the book be on anyone's shelves at all, or is it one (like Karl's I think, unless it was well hidden) you can only get by ordering?
I saw something in Google that made it appear Barnes and Noble will be carrying it - don't know if they have it yet or not. I ordered a copy through amazon and received it in less than 5 days. I think it was $18 with shipping and handling.
I saw something in Google that made it appear Barnes and Noble will be carrying it - don't know if they have it yet or not. I ordered a copy through amazon and received it in less than 5 days. I think it was $18 with shipping and handling.
I saw something in Google that made it appear Barnes and Noble will be carrying it - don't know if they have it yet or not. I ordered a copy through amazon and received it in less than 5 days. I think it was $18 with shipping and handling.
p.s. - please check your private message
I'll have to check that out, even after that pm. I really don't know what I'm going to think of it, but would be interesting to see if it gets there (God's town here has a nice big B & N.).
I'll have to check that out, even after that pm. I really don't know what I'm going to think of it, but would be interesting to see if it gets there (God's town here has a nice big B & N.).
I just meant that besides getting it myself, it will be interesting to see it on the shelves, meaning there is some confidence people other than ex-way will buy it.
As I read her story, I thought about a movie I watched not too long ago, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. In this classic Sci-Fi movie, pods from outer space take over the lives of people – but they are only able to do this when the person falls asleep. The person looks like you on the outside – but it’s no longer you on the inside. I think of how much of the TWI mindset is geared toward lulling to sleep our critical and creative thinking processes…we suppress our real personalities, forget our dreams, ignore feelings, and squelch personal preferences.
All the while being told that you have never been more awake.
A local B & N guy I spoke with today said they could get it but that they didn't have it in. Since his records showed it was published in June, he wasn't sure if they had gotten it in and sold all the copies, or just hadn't gotten it in. I can probably check further when I have time. Just having some thoughts that will depend a lot on what I see when I read the book in a few days and some other important thngs.
Kris’s book was a jolting walk down memory lane. I laughed at the absurdities of thought, and then cried remembering I shared the same reality. Healing came as I celebrated my decision long ago to leave that path behind, and continue my spiritual quest in other places, and knowing that He has been with me every step of the way, helping me along each path I have taken in knowing Him more intimately. He never fails us, and finds us wherever we are when we call out to Him.
Kris, I appreciate your candor and courage in telling your story. How wonderful that you have turned the lemons of your life into lemonade, and serve it to others through your counseling. May God continue to bless you, and those you serve.
As I read her story, I thought about a movie I watched not too long ago, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
(((((((Kris)))))))
I can't tell you how close you came to losing me here. I skipped over this paragraph and read the rest though. I guess I'm just not a Si-Fi type guy... and yet.... a certain Zombosity was involved.
I finished it over the weekend and yes, it was hard to put down.
PurpleDays said what I feel:
Kris, I appreciate your candor and courage in telling your story. How wonderful that you have turned the lemons of your life into lemonade, and serve it to others through your counseling. May God continue to bless you, and those you serve.
I confess that during the thirteen years I spent in twi, I was in awe of those who got to be close to "doctor" and was thrilled that he made frequent visits to the Indiana campus during what would be the last year of his life. In fact, I felt like a loser because I didn't get to work the back room while he was alive and only "got to" wash the outside of the motorcoach and only "got to" work with him once (read...a small group of us tore down a shed while he stood around). Snort and double snort!
Through the years there were always things that didn't add up but I wouldn't allow myself to "think evil of the man of god". Holy crap...I'm so very thankful I never made it to the inner circle, and I'm so sorry you and all the others got snared in his trap.
It was an amazing book, well written and intuitive. It certainly was a walk down memory lane. And like Purple said there were times that I just couldnt believe that I once thought Just Like That. Give me a break! :blink: It certainly was a great expose of what it was like to be in the Way Corps and what it was like to think like Way Corps. Crazy!
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cheranne
Ii am still waiting for mine. Ordered it from Borders
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excathedra
thanks outie, i always love to hear whatever you have to say
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Lifted Up
Haven't seen it. Would like to.
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Juan Cruz
Dear Kris,
Your terrific book arrived from Amazon yesterday.
I started it around 11:40pm and finished, I don't know, sometime around 4am.
It sure stirred up a lot.
I am so sorry that you suffered so much.
It's a great gift that you wrote this compelling story.
I don't think much about TWI anymore. After all, I left in 1978 or so.
I never did much after undergrad College WOW days at .......
A tragic death (VC) and TWI's terrible handling of it
was the beginning of the end for me.
.....read and prayed like crazy, got counseling, worked at a church,
and left for .... Seminary in '83.
I spent a year or two here on Greasespot to my great benefit
If you are ever in the NYC area, wife .... and I would love to treat you to lunch or dinner.
She's asked to read your book as soon as I'm done.
Your epilogue makes me consider looking into doing some exit counseling.
I got my Masters in Pastoral Counseling from .... in 1983.
I haven't done any professional counseling. I've also considered volunteering for such work with vets of Iraq/Afganistan.
Thank you for your valuable, valuable memoir.
Peace,
Juan
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Paradiseden
I received "Losing The Way" from Amazon yesterday and finished reading it today. Yes, it is that good. I would highly recommend it to any person who has been in The Way or who is still in The Way. Many of us will be able to relate to the various "pressures" that went along with being part of "The Way." For instance, like trying to skip a Way meeting or fellowship because you had something important to do.
This book is entertaining, interesting, sad and healing. Although she used different names for the various peope in the book, anyone who was in the Way during the mid 1970's to the early 1980's will easily recognize many of the people. For example, corps coordinator "Roy Worthington."
Reading this book was special for me, because I personally knew Kris. At Indiana University, she was the branch coordinator and class coordinator when I sat through the PFAL class for the first time. During that year, she was responsible for many people getting to know God better. I remember being amazed at her enthusiasm and confidence concerning God and the Bible. At my first twig in the Memorial Union she taught about David (1 Samuel 17). I had one question to ask my friend, who had been relentless in trying to convince me to be part of PFAL class, "If I take this class will I be able to teach the Bible like her?"
Thanks for writing this book Kris. I am sure it will help many others.
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waysider
Just ordered mine today.
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DogLover
I stayed up until the wee hours of this morning, foregoing seeing July 4th fireworks in order to finish it. It's very captivating, very sad through most of it, yet there is at least a partly happy ending ... and her life goes on.
I myself was in the Way for 23.5 years and was rather shocked and surprised to find out when I left on January 11, 1996 that our so-called "father in the Word" had those particular tendencies described so aptly in her book. While not having any of those experiences myself, I totally identified with her feeling that "Doctor would fix it" when her life was falling apart. I remember being at Gunnison in 1985 (before VPW's death) under the tyrannical rule of TJ. Almost all of the women in our room in the fancy cabin, the Gunnison, and I cried ourselves to sleep many nights because of TJ's hatefulness and the utter sense of hopelessness he wrought. One of the women had been a flight attendant on Ambassador One during her interim year and knew Craig well ... we thought when he came to visit, that she would get a chance to talk to him and he would "fix it" and straighten Tom J. out .... as it turned out, he was so emotionally distant and self-absorbed when he came to visit that nothing got done. I remember thinking, trusting, he would do "the right thing" and was so, so disappointed when he left and everything went on the same ... I felt as if God had abandoned us. I think back now, "Why didn't you leave?" of myself ... and I guess I didn't for all the same reasons Kris didn't leave her abusive husband ... "it will get better" or "I can't leave the Corps/I'd be leaving God." It is just all so hard to explain to someone who has never been there.
I say this because I still believe in the Bible, I go to a fellowship of mostly former Way folks, we are not a part of any splinter group, we HAVE taken the time to look at errors in doctrine and practice (and have found quite a few), yet I still remain thankful for what I learned from VPW -- sinner though he was in many categories so clearly outlined in many other threads. Yes, not all of it is true, much of it plagiarized, but the bottom line is that I have eternal life from the Bible (Romans 10:9) and I met a lot of wonderful people I would not have otherwise known. I say this not to be a "Wierwille apologist" or to lessen in any way the horrible abuses that Kris and others suffered at the hands of those they thought they could trust. I guess I see in my own life (as Kris did in hers) that in all of the darkest, most difficult times, GOD was always there, looking out for me (and for Kris). I am thankful she found the Light at the end of her long, dark tunnel.
This is a well-written book, worthy of being read by anyone who spent time in the Way.
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waysider
Great Post, DL!
I especially liked this part.
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Juan Cruz
"Emotionally distant" and detached.... this is exactly what I experienced from a major Limb Leader when I went for pastoral counseling. And I was working my a** off for this guy's ministry!
If a group (or a teaching) is not pastoral, it isn't Christian.
If leaders have no oversight or accountability, the group is less than Christian (and very unsafe).
If leaders have little training, or worse, training in how to sell the gospel and use people - then that group is very sick indeed.
You need not stop with the teachings of TWI; there are riches of true, biblical Christian spirituality that go way beyond TWI managed to share. To stop with TWI's body of knowledge/teaching is like stopping in first grade (IMHO). Just one example: read Thomas Merton's Seven Story Mountain or Seeds of Contemplation or Hans Kung's On Being a Christian.
My wife, Senora Cruz, finished Kris' book in 12 hours also. She was one of the first folk Kris witnessed to and so was very interested. Sr. Cruz never drank the whole cup... she only sipped the Kool Aid. Kris and I both drank the whole cup. Sheesh. She paid a greater price for her commitment. What was the difference? Luck? Gender? She's at least as smart as I am, if not smarter... and gifted as all get out. Emotional factors? Luck.
I didn't think my esteem for her could have grown any higher - but it has.
In Christ's love,
Juan de la Cruz y la Casa de Lunes
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T-Bone
I could not put the book down! I started reading it last night and finished it today. Her description of the treacherous mind-games that plague TWI followers so resonated with me...I’m a guy – so I’m not saying I can relate to the sexual abuse nor am I saying what I experienced comes anywhere close to that…but I believe TWI was parasitic and sucked the life out of anything with a pulse!
As I read her story, I thought about a movie I watched not too long ago, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. In this classic Sci-Fi movie, pods from outer space take over the lives of people – but they are only able to do this when the person falls asleep. The person looks like you on the outside – but it’s no longer you on the inside. I think of how much of the TWI mindset is geared toward lulling to sleep our critical and creative thinking processes…we suppress our real personalities, forget our dreams, ignore feelings, and squelch personal preferences.
Also, as I read the book I thought of three categories of people: predators, facilitators, and victims. I think there were a lot of facilitators in TWI. A facilitator is one who helps bring about an outcome by providing indirect or unobtrusive assistance. I was neither a predator nor a victim. But in lending my support [time, energy, finances, etc.] to this cult, I unknowingly perpetuated the predatory system. I’m guilty of being a facilitator.
There’s some kind of sick twist in Kris hearing about the Illuminati/one-world-government-conspiracy stuff [Advanced Class material] and the conspiracy that unfolds with vp’s lock box…a conspiracy of silence to cloak his sexual predations.
Thanks Kris, for having the courage, strength, love, humility, honesty, and wisdom to write this book – and think your recommendation of exit counselors is a big deal!
(((((((Kris)))))))
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Lifted Up
Okay, dumb question of the day...will the book be on anyone's shelves at all, or is it one (like Karl's I think, unless it was well hidden) you can only get by ordering?
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Abigail
I saw something in Google that made it appear Barnes and Noble will be carrying it - don't know if they have it yet or not. I ordered a copy through amazon and received it in less than 5 days. I think it was $18 with shipping and handling.
p.s. - please check your private message
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Lifted Up
I'll have to check that out, even after that pm. I really don't know what I'm going to think of it, but would be interesting to see if it gets there (God's town here has a nice big B & N.).
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Abigail
Check your PM again before you hit the stores :D
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Lifted Up
I just meant that besides getting it myself, it will be interesting to see it on the shelves, meaning there is some confidence people other than ex-way will buy it.
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Tzaia
All the while being told that you have never been more awake.
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excathedra
big snort
excuse me
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Lifted Up
A local B & N guy I spoke with today said they could get it but that they didn't have it in. Since his records showed it was published in June, he wasn't sure if they had gotten it in and sold all the copies, or just hadn't gotten it in. I can probably check further when I have time. Just having some thoughts that will depend a lot on what I see when I read the book in a few days and some other important thngs.
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PurpleDays
Kris’s book was a jolting walk down memory lane. I laughed at the absurdities of thought, and then cried remembering I shared the same reality. Healing came as I celebrated my decision long ago to leave that path behind, and continue my spiritual quest in other places, and knowing that He has been with me every step of the way, helping me along each path I have taken in knowing Him more intimately. He never fails us, and finds us wherever we are when we call out to Him.
Kris, I appreciate your candor and courage in telling your story. How wonderful that you have turned the lemons of your life into lemonade, and serve it to others through your counseling. May God continue to bless you, and those you serve.
PurpleDays
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Juan Cruz
I can't tell you how close you came to losing me here. I skipped over this paragraph and read the rest though. I guess I'm just not a Si-Fi type guy... and yet.... a certain Zombosity was involved.
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waysider
I read the book.
I had a hard time putting it down.
Nuff said?
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tonto
I finished it over the weekend and yes, it was hard to put down.
PurpleDays said what I feel:
I confess that during the thirteen years I spent in twi, I was in awe of those who got to be close to "doctor" and was thrilled that he made frequent visits to the Indiana campus during what would be the last year of his life. In fact, I felt like a loser because I didn't get to work the back room while he was alive and only "got to" wash the outside of the motorcoach and only "got to" work with him once (read...a small group of us tore down a shed while he stood around). Snort and double snort!
Through the years there were always things that didn't add up but I wouldn't allow myself to "think evil of the man of god". Holy crap...I'm so very thankful I never made it to the inner circle, and I'm so sorry you and all the others got snared in his trap.
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Eyesopen
It was an amazing book, well written and intuitive. It certainly was a walk down memory lane. And like Purple said there were times that I just couldnt believe that I once thought Just Like That. Give me a break! :blink: It certainly was a great expose of what it was like to be in the Way Corps and what it was like to think like Way Corps. Crazy!
Well done Kristen. Thank you.
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Lifted Up
Got it.
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